pushing B&W film

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colpepper

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I don't remember pushing 400ASA film more than a stop to 800, which seems to have little impact on grain and contrast. Does anyone have experience of seriously under-exposing fast films? At what point does grain become intrusive - assuming you're not going for a gratuitously grainy image?

Is 1600 viable? More?
 
Last winter I was shooting black and white at high speeds. I found 1600 acceptable, 3200 was where I stopped as the latitude started to suffer quite a bit. Grain is certainly noticeable at 1600 and higher but personally I didn't find it objectionable. I stand processed the films in Rodinal, some of the results are below.

4034633127_f62385c099_z.jpg

Tri-X 1600

4185249001_c96b48da8c_z.jpg

HP5+ 1600

4323012496_fc9de1d9f0_z.jpg

HP5+ 3200

4282719111_e5a0e1bc78_z.jpg

Tri-X 3200
 
Those were done in Rodinal?

Wow I would have expected golf ball grain when processing that speed film.
 
Thanks for the shots, I'd have expected higher grain at those speeds. Will try Neopan in ID-11 at 1600 and take things from there.
 
Knikki, they were done in Rodinal, which I specifically chose to use as I saw people were getting good results with it in conjunction with stand processing.

colpepper, to be honest you won't see heavy grain with web-sized images. So here is a 100% crop of an iso 3200 image to see the grain (don't like the image, is more for demonstration).




100% crops



 
zeroeseight said:
Knikki, they were done in Rodinal, which I specifically chose to use as I saw people were getting good results with it in conjunction with stand processing.
Click to expand...

Right it is on the list "of things to try" ;)

I have used Rodinal alot over the yearts but always on the slower fine grain films, again because I liked the results, but always avoided using it for 400+ speed films. But having seen your results (I appreciate not easy to see at 72dpi) and others on flickr I am at least going to have to give one film ago. :)
 
Wow, I'm seriously impressed with the results you're getting with rodinal zeroeseight. From what I've been reading it doesn't work brilliantly with anything but low speed film but this has proven to be false. It may "enhance" the grain but not at the coast of losing detail, great work.
 
Quick pushing question and felt best to pop it in here rather than start a new thread

I've never tried pushing before but want to give it a go but I want to make sure I'd be doing it right first.

I terms of iso a stop is double right? So pushing a 400 iso film to 1600 would be two stops right?

I'd set my camera (Vivtar V335 or a Konica FS-1) to the iso I want to push to and this will cause underexposure if I go by what the viewfinder meter readings will tell me.

When I come to dev the film I will be using Dev Chart - http://www.digitaltruth.com/devchart.php?Film=HP5&Developer=Xtol&mdc=Search -for times so I dev for the time stated for the iso I'm pushing to yeah?
 
andephotographic said:
Quick pushing question and felt best to pop it in here rather than start a new thread

I've never tried pushing before but want to give it a go but I want to make sure I'd be doing it right first.

I terms of iso a stop is double right? So pushing a 400 iso film to 1600 would be two stops right?

I'd set my camera (Vivtar V335 or a Konica FS-1) to the iso I want to push to and this will cause underexposure if I go by what the viewfinder meter readings will tell me.

When I come to dev the film I will be using Dev Chart - http://www.digitaltruth.com/devchart.php?Film=HP5&Developer=Xtol&mdc=Search -for times so I dev for the time stated for the iso I'm pushing to yeah?
Click to expand...

Spot on (y)
 
I've been using Tri-x @ 800 stand developed in Rodinal too and been very happy with the results, the next roll will be @ 1600 I think.
 
andephotographic said:
'Stand developed' as in no agitation?
Click to expand...

Yeah.... Rodinal @ 100:1 (300ml water and 3ml Rodinal) at 20 degrees C.
I put water in the tank for a few minutes while I get everything ready then dump the water out and chuck the developer in, give it a quick couple of turns over and then a couple of knocks to get rid of any bubbles then leave it for thirty minutes, give it a very gentle swirl (like a circular brandy glass swirl) then leave for another thirty minutes, job done. (y)
 
andephotographic said:
'Stand developed' as in no agitation?
Click to expand...

Stand as in slow agitate for first minute and then LEAVE for 59mins (this is based on TriX 400@1600 (or 800 / 3200).

The developer 'dies' and at the end of the time you can empty away and bath fix etc.

Al

PS: A water bath for say 4/5 minutes before stand developing helps & the temp of the developer really doesn't figure (unless extreme heat or cold)

EDIT: Or method as Chris says above.
 
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SparkUK said:
I've been using Tri-x @ 800 stand developed in Rodinal too and been very happy with the results, the next roll will be @ 1600 I think.
Click to expand...

SparkUK said:
Yeah.... Rodinal @ 100:1 (300ml water and 3ml Rodinal) at 20 degrees C.
I put water in the tank for a few minutes while I get everything ready then dump the water out and chuck the developer in, give it a quick couple of turns over and then a couple of knocks to get rid of any bubbles then leave it for thirty minutes, give it a very gentle swirl (like a circular brandy glass swirl) then leave for another thirty minutes, job done. (y)
Click to expand...

If your going to shoot the next roll at 1600 will you increase dev time (presumably not as the dev will have 'died' by the end of the hour anyway) or use it less diluted?
 
I was thinking about 4ml of Rodinal instead of 3ml and about the same stand time, can only try and see.
 
SparkUK said:
I was thinking about 4ml of Rodinal instead of 3ml and about the same stand time, can only try and see.
Click to expand...

Cool.
Think I'm going to order some film from Silverprint and my girlfriend is maybe going to buy me chemicals for christmas.
 
I found 7dayshop to be best for Tri-x... 2.99 a roll delivered. (for ten)
 
For the people doing stand devving in Rodinal, what stop and fix are you using?
I was going to go with Ilford stuff - Ilfostop and Ilford Rapid Fix - from Silverprint because I'll be ordering Rodinal from them anyway. (Nowhere local stocks it).
Any better ideas?
 
I use Ilfostop and Iflord Rapid fix after my Rodinal, unless I'm cross processing C41 film like XP2 in which case I don't want to contaminate my chemicals so I use a water stop... loads of washing, usuallly with a splash of vinegar in the first wash and then Ilfostop but I try to make it the last use of that batch of stop. There's no real theory behind my not using chemicals that have had colour films in but I'm always a bit wary is all.
 
Some of the best results I got were with Neopan 400 pushed to 1600 and developed in tmax developer.
Shame they don't make Neopan any more, best b+w 35mm film I ever used.
 
Neopan 400 is still around, just not in 120 due to 'environmental' reasons in its manufacture.
 
That's good to know. Shame I only shoot 5x4 these days otherwise I'd have a fridge full of the stuff.
 
I've pushed many films up to 25,000 Ei and processed in Rodinal.
I use 120 but here goes Delta 3200 @ 6400 in Rodinal
92789242.jpg


Then Delta 3200 at 12,500
100081319.jpg

See the light coming in the rooflight– moonlight!
Delta @ 25,00 in Rodinal.
100698699.jpg

And a 35mm one TMZ at 3200:
59765841.jpg


Last one Acros at 12,500 stand developed in Rodinal:
120653127.jpg

A bit thin but work in progress
 
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