quadcopters

Kaolin said:
Would be interested on your take on the BNUC qualification, as it is something I am considering. I am considering using a DJI s900 or s1000 as an photography platform.
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I'll let you know after I've done it. I'm signed up for 8-9th April.
 
been a while since ive logged in here and interesting to see how the thread has gone. in response to the crashed in the front garden post. you said the quad was a 10cm sized which pretty much unless a custom built FPV racing quad sounds very much to me as being something along the lines of a syma x5c. However if you havent flown quads and dont know the circumstances of what happened your comment is a little harsh i feel. Quads have had a massive increase in sales and smaller models like that have been purchased as christmas presents by parents for kids ( many of the smaller ones are classed as toys and have an age rating of 14 ) . these generally have a range of around 50m ( or less on some micro quads ) and though all the youtube vids look great and make them seem easy to fly the are not at all.
i tested my own quad when i got it which is a larger model with GPS , altitude hold, headless mode, return to home etc.
had it all set up, locked lights to signify it had picked up enough satelites for the gps and gave it a test flight. quad was about 10-15 feet high and was just hovering it back and forth when i decided to give the rreturn to home method a try.
flicked the switch and expected the quad to rise up a little and moce above the take off spot before a slow descent and landing. instead the thing shot off like a rocket to my left out into the road about 20 metres away ( i was at local playing fields ) and straight into the side of a bus breaking two props and cracking part of the housing. this all happened literally in the blink of an eye and didnt have a chance to recover the gps lock back to manual ( the quad i have has a speed of 16 m per second ). still havent worked out why GPS return to home didnt do as it should and can only put it down to a problem with the gps lock at the time.

weather hasnt been kind so havent been out much since but have flown the quad a couple of times and have to say its not an easy thing to get to grips with. controls are highly sensitive and the speed can be quite a shock when you fly it for the first time.
even the low end £30 models are pretty fast and therein lies the issue here. they may be classed as a toy but they still require a very delicate touch and some experience to fly them. simply put it could have been a first time flyer trying out there quad and simply losing total control over it ( even experienced flyers can lose control ) a little wind can cause smaller quads to drift and become unstable quite easily. ( and yes many budget quads have built in cameras which sounds like the one you had crash into your house/ car )
so rather than simply blame it on an inconsiderate irresponsible t***, consider the above first , it could just have easily been some 14 or 15 year old kid excitedly trying out hes new xmas present for the first time , or simply caused by very easy to do loss of control.
as for restrictions on flying the legalities are quite vague when it comes to "toy" level models and even then its not 100% clear other than certain obvious areas ( near airfields for instance ).
i also have a micro quad thats about 2 inches ( or less ) in size. listed as currently the worlds smallest ( the cheerson cx-10 ) . this thing though small can be flown both indoors and outdoors and has a range of around 20-30m. and for something so small its very fast and can be extremely tricky to fly ( much smaller props so far less stability and also harder to see too ).
could very easily lose control of this if it hit a bit of wind and orientation pushes it away from you ( easy enough to happen on bigger quads too if they dont have headless mode).
as for noise levels.. once my larger quad is around 20-30 m away you can hardly hear it and as it has a range of around 1 mile i think the noise/ sound argument is an invalid one.
 
dean messenger said:
had it all set up, locked lights to signify it had picked up enough satelites for the gps and gave it a test flight. quad was about 10-15 feet high and was just hovering it back and forth when i decided to give the rreturn to home method a try.
flicked the switch and expected the quad to rise up a little and moce above the take off spot before a slow descent and landing. instead the thing shot off like a rocket to my left out into the road about 20 metres away ( i was at local playing fields ) and straight into the side of a bus breaking two props and cracking part of the housing. this all happened literally in the blink of an eye and didnt have a chance to recover the gps lock back to manual ( the quad i have has a speed of 16 m per second ). still havent worked out why GPS return to home didnt do as it should and can only put it down to a problem with the gps lock at the time.
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Nice excuses for why they don't behave, but it also sounds like a very good argument against quadcopters altogether. If a slight puff of breeze can result in loss of control, can they ever be said to be in control? - I know you're possibly exaggerating to make the case for occasional accidents in the hands of new fliers, but it illustrates some of the concerns that non-fliers have over these devices.

Would you have accepted fault if your device shooting into the path of moving traffic had resulted in an accident?
 
I hope this thread doesn't turn into a typical General Discussion fight fest. I'm more concerned about the number of idiots behind the steering wheel of a car (a vehicle with much more mass and potential velocity) than the number of idiots who own a quadcopter.
I suspect that those with small, cheap devices will get bored of them before they can cause harm, and that those who who have bigger more expensive kit will be more mature. Plus the bigger ones tend to come with the GPS and Compass orientation and are easier to control. I'd never flown any kind of remote-controlled device until my Phantom 2 was delivered, and I am not finding it difficult to control at all. Plus as I mentioned earlier, the first thing I did was get £5 million of liability insurance.
My Inspire1 gets delivered today, and I'm not going to fly that until I've got a lot of hours of experience with the Phantom 2.
 
Not wishing to add fuel but I understand the CAA are looking at drones in general, so more legislation is probably going to follow.
That'll probably be around the sale of the small 'toys', but could mean more licensing of the bigger ones. To be honest I am surprised they already haven't gone down that route.
 
Although I ultimately would like a larger quad with GoPro I currently have a smaller one (V959 WLtoys), a Xmas present from my wife.
I did a bit of reading on various websites and forums last year around the time the Dji Phantom was having a few 'fly-aways' and one thing that stood out was that the more experienced drone users all seemed to advise to start off with a smaller, and cheaper, quad without GPS hold, auto hover etc and learn to fly a quad without any aids before getting a larger quad as it appeared a lot of the 'fly-aways' and other incidents were down to user error or the user not knowing how to recover the quad without the use of the flying aids once it got into trouble.
The general idea was to learn how to fly a quad with a smaller hands on manual model before using the more advanced models, plus any mishaps will be cheaper to repair.

With regard to the rules around flying drones etc I agree, best to stick to wide open spaces, only tried mine on a big field so far but the wind, while felt fine in our road, was whistling over the fields and made it impossible to fly at all. Will have to wait for a nice calm day.
 
i used to be in to building them a few years back, keep meaning to head to the box of bits and make some more.
I did get a autopilot system for a quad,car,plane not long ago need to get it sorted
 
Alastair said:
Nice excuses for why they don't behave, but it also sounds like a very good argument against quadcopters altogether. If a slight puff of breeze can result in loss of control, can they ever be said to be in control? - I know you're possibly exaggerating to make the case for occasional accidents in the hands of new fliers, but it illustrates some of the concerns that non-fliers have over these devices.

Would you have accepted fault if your device shooting into the path of moving traffic had resulted in an accident?
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not excuses. simple facts.
the prosumer or hobbyest level if you will are powerful machines and can deal with wind pretty well. but like any machine in the hands of the user it takes time to learn and become adept at flying them.
the smaller toy ones are by nature because of there size and weight more prone to the effects of wind and some are designed for indoor use only.
much the same way you wouldnt put an 18 year old behind the wheels of a ferrari or lambo you shouldnt expect a novice to put behind the controls of a £500+ quad.
as i stated though the one iinvolved in the incident sounds much more likely to be a £30-50 model such as the syma which has a limited range and no gps so the control is 100% manual and without the protection of gps hold, orientation and alt hold they are slightly harder to fly if you lose sight even briefly then its very easy to find your quad has rotated and pulling back on the stick to bring it towards you will have the opposite effect and push it further away, and its learning those skills ( non headless mode ) that need to be overcome first to become a competent quad flyer.
AS for accepting fault f the device. no it was user error in relying on an automated function without properly checking first via the software that it had indeed calibrated the GPS to the correct location which resulted in the quad not landing where it should.
for the majority of quads in the sub £100 price range they dont have the power or range to warrant restrictions by the CAA.
 
I think that any of these helis can easily become unmanageable in winds, especially gusting wind. I can (just about) fly a CP heli. Jolly tricky.
 
Mart61 said:
I think that any of these helis can easily become unmanageable in winds, especially gusting wind. I can (just about) fly a CP heli. Jolly tricky.
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landwomble said:
Helis are nothing like quads to fly though.
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Indeed. With the gyro stabilisation it makes it just as easy to fly in wind than on a calm day. If it's windy or a gust hit it then it adjusts the speed of the motors to keep it stable and in one place.

Proper RC Helis are a whole different kettle of fish to fly and pretty difficult for the beginner.
 
Hexacopters are great in gusty wind, the 6 props make it really stable, plus you have redundancy if a motor fails

Tricopters are highly maneuverable with their servo driven YAW mech, great for high speed FPV "barnstorming" :D
 
Alastair said:
Nice excuses for why they don't behave, but it also sounds like a very good argument against quadcopters altogether. If a slight puff of breeze can result in loss of control, can they ever be said to be in control? - I know you're possibly exaggerating to make the case for occasional accidents in the hands of new fliers, but it illustrates some of the concerns that non-fliers have over these devices.

Would you have accepted fault if your device shooting into the path of moving traffic had resulted in an accident?
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In fairness, any aircraft has conditions it can't be flown in. Knowing and respecting that is part of any flight. A slight puff of breeze is a bit of an exaggeration though
 
boyfalldown said:
In fairness, any aircraft has conditions it can't be flown in. Knowing and respecting that is part of any flight. A slight puff of breeze is a bit of an exaggeration though
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I've flown a quad in almost gale force wind, it was nerve wrecking to say the least, however, the bigger the machine is the better it handles in strong wind in my experience.
They can handle it, but due to their axial nature of motion, they can be a handful when it's blowing a hooley.

Hexacopters are better as they have the extra props for stability.
 
Rob 80386 said:
I've flown a quad in almost gale force wind, it was nerve wrecking to say the least, however, the bigger the machine is the better it handles in strong wind in my experience.
They can handle it, but due to their axial nature of motion, they can be a handful when it's blowing a hooley.

Hexacopters are better as they have the extra props for stability.
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I've flown one in conditions I would have left my paraglider in the bag in. But my point is really while you can get caught out you do know the aircrafts capabilities
 
Rob 80386 said:
I've flown a quad in almost gale force wind, it was nerve wrecking to say the least, however, the bigger the machine is the better it handles in strong wind in my experience.
They can handle it, but due to their axial nature of motion, they can be a handful when it's blowing a hooley.

Hexacopters are better as they have the extra props for stability.
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I think being new to all this I am a lot more nervous than you! I went out this morning and stopped flying because it was quite gusty. I still managed to get some video though.

 
Just read that Olympus has announced that Chinese drone manufacturer DJI is officially joining the Micro Four Thirds System standard.
 
dean messenger said:
much the same way you wouldnt put an 18 year old behind the wheels of a ferrari or lambo ...
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Bad analogy :D
http://www.ginetta.com/championship_drivers_junior?driver=374
Ginetta G40 race cars with 14-17 year old drivers ;)

Plus I've got a couple of medium size electric helicopters (not quads) and some of the demos are amazing, especially from the younger fliers.
The real issue seems to be the 'look how easy they are to fly' adverts and assumptions, whereas historically helicopters were always difficult and took some time to learn to fly manually, and money with the crashes :D
 
3DRobotics have announced a very nice looking UAS that features inflight control of a GoPro. That's a first.
 
Flying within a congested area. Flying within 50 metres of people and buildings not under his control. Yep, that video does not promote safe flying! Technically it's pants too. Jello, camera shake, fish-eye.
 
Wanting to add this feature at some of the larger wedding venues we shoot at, there is a vast array of offerings, DJI being the ones that craop up the most, but what is the opinion for an easy solution, out of the box and fly with of course some practice or even some training if available.

Needs would be

FULL HD video
Quiet operation a must, dont want to dominate an event with noise!
Easy get out of car and send up make a few passes and down again and back in boot - job done
Ease of use comes in with above...

Best offering at the moment.
 
I really fancy one f these but I'm trying to resist!
They'd be great for Wedding Togs for the different aspect they show, but id be a little wary of flying one over a crowd of people - its an accident waiting to happen!
 
LASTOLITE said:
Wanting to add this feature at some of the larger wedding venues we shoot at, there is a vast array of offerings, DJI being the ones that craop up the most, but what is the opinion for an easy solution, out of the box and fly with of course some practice or even some training if available.

Needs would be

FULL HD video
Quiet operation a must, dont want to dominate an event with noise!
Easy get out of car and send up make a few passes and down again and back in boot - job done
Ease of use comes in with above...

Best offering at the moment.
Click to expand...

None of them are quiet. If you'd be using it as part of a commercial wedding offer, then unless you've obtained a PFAW from the CAA, you'd be breaking the law. The easiest solution in terms of kit would be the new Phantom 3.
 
Ricardodaforce said:
None of them are quiet. If you'd be using it as part of a commercial wedding offer, then unless you've obtained a PFAW from the CAA, you'd be breaking the law. The easiest solution in terms of kit would be the new Phantom 3.
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Looking into this at the moment....Thanks.
 
I didn't know there was a new Phantom 3? ....Will go and look now :)
 
Clever buggers........... must have been pretty close to the ape in the first place, not good flying if you ask me the blades can chop into flesh like no business.
 
Some great features on the Phantom 3 will now be coming to the Inspire 1. Good news!

Ground Station
Plan and execute autonomous flight paths by telling your Inspire 1 where to go and what to do at up to 100 points on a map.

Live Streaming
Share what you’re seeing, as you’re flying, with anyone around the world with YouTube live streaming compatibility.

Director
Cut and edit your favorite footage instantly, as the built-in Director pieces together your clips and adds in music, ready to be shared.
 
Had a fright on Tuesday! Did one flight with my Inspire 1 and all went well (see video below). Bought it back in to change the battery, and on taking off on the second flight it lost control over water. I somehow managed to bring it back over land and ended up having a very hard landing that broke one of the props. Flight log has been extracted and sent for analysis.
Just took it out for a test flight. Was very nervous, but it flew like a dream. I have no idea what caused the issue the other day. IMU was calibrated, as was the compass. Anyway we'll see what DJI come back with.
Also, since getting the Inspire 1 I have been disappointed with video image quality (compared to what I get from my GoPro Hero 4 Black attached to my Phantom 2). Today I did some experimenting, and found that adjusting sharpness to -1 makes a great difference. So, if any of you have an Inspire 1, that would be my recommendation.

 
That's some really nice footage there Richard...impressed!
 
Thanks guys but I really don't like it. Far too grainy in my opinion. However, now I've sussed out a better set up option for the camera, the next video will be better.
 
Looks sweet to me Richard and what is your next setup for better video quality?
 
The Matrix 100 is set to release later today. An email was sent to dealers just a few hours ago. Here are some of the features of the Matrix 100:

Features:

Expansion Bays

Additional expansion bays allow you to add components, customize the payload, and fly with any devices you want. Put cameras, sensors, computing boards, communication tools, and more into the sky, and gather data while completing complex jobs from a birds‐eye view.

Universal Power and Communication Ports

Plug in and fly with almost any device, and transmit data via the Matrix 100’s dual CAN and UART ports. There are two of each port on your platform, enabling you to mount and build a system that matches your needs.

Dual Battery Compartments

Add an additional battery compartment to achieve up to 40 minutes* of flight time. This gives greater power to both your platform and any additional devices or accessories that you wish to fly with. *Flight times vary based on payload and flight conditions, and the maximum 40 minute flight time tested when hovering with dual TB48D batteries and no additional payload.

Customizable Mounting and Balancing

Achieve perfect balance and an ideal flight experience by sliding the battery and other compartments around the body of your Matrix 100. Put your components exactly where you want them, and get the most out of your system.

Adjustable Arm Angle for Greater Torque

Flexible to match your flight needs, adjusting the arm angle of each of the 4 arms is quick and easy. Achieve increased yaw torque and greater response by tilting the arms to a 3 degree angle.

50% Less Vibrations, Rigid, Strong System

To reduce vibrations, increase stiffness, and bring unmatched reliability, your Matrix 100 is made of strong, lightweight carbon fiber. Each of the arms contains DJI’s new soft vibration absorbing material that virtually eliminates feedback from the powerful motors, keeping your critical components stable and allowing unprecedented accuracy.

Responsive, Quick Release Landing Pads

Innovative landing pads or “feet” are installed at the base of each arm to protect your Matrix 100 when landing. These pads greatly reduce impact, protecting your system and eliminating the chance of your platform unintentionally lifting off of the ground. Also easy and quick to remove for replacement or upgrades.

Dedicated Remote Controller

Take control of your platform with the customizable, long‐range remote controller included with the Matrix 100. With an operating distance of up to 1.2 miles* (2km), a rechargeable battery, fully adjustable controls, and outputs to connect to your mobile device, this is the perfect tool to command your system in the air. *Maximum range tested in open areas free of interference and may vary depending on local regulations.

Full Mobile App Support

Fly with the feature‐rich DJI Pilot app or create your own app with the DJI SDK. See a live view, control your devices, access a real‐time map, and more by simply plugging in your tablet or smartphone.

Enhanced GPS

Enhanced GPS with a foldable mount helps you to track your Matrix 100’s position in real time, while enabling faster satellite acquisition, more accurate position holding and flight planning.

Upgraded Flight Controller and Integrated Lightbridge

DJI’s new N1 flight controller keeps your Matrix 100 stable and responsive to your commands throughout every flight. Transmitting data to you and bringing a live HD view (when using DJI’s X5 Camera and gimbal), the included DJI Lightbridge increases your flight range to 1.2 miles* (2km). *Maximum range tested in open areas free of interference and may vary depending on local regulations.

Purpose‐Built Propulsion System

An upgraded version of the respected DJI E800 electric propulsion system powers your Matrix 100 and keeps it in flight. Four powerful, brushless motors and four lightning fast Electronic Speed Controllers are integrated into the platform, giving you complete control during flight. With increased strength and payload capacity, you have the flexibility to create the system you need.

Compatible Parts for Further Functionality

The Matrix 100 is compatible with a wide range of DJI accessories including:  Guidance: DJI’s revolutionary sensor kit that helps your platform see its environment and recognize when obstacles or other objects are nearby.  X3 Camera and Gimbal: Shoot stabilized 4K video and capture 12 megapixel images from the sky with DJI’s integrated camera and 3‐axis gimbal system.  Extra Battery: Extend your flight time by flying with an additional DJI Intelligent Flight Battery.  Expansion Bays: Use more expansion bays to put all of your desired devices onto your Matrix 100 and create a truly unique, customized platform.
 
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