QUALIFICATIONS

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BRYAN MORRIS
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Evening all, newby to this forum here.
I have a question regarding photography qualifications, i imagine its been asked before so please be gentle.
In the professional world of paying photography, something i,m hoping to venture into in the near future, is it beneficial to have any academic credentials?
I,m 48 with poor school grades, from many many moons ago, so i,m guessing I would struggle to get any academic placings anyway.
What are your thoughts all??????
Thanks all..........
 
you could still learn and get qualifications, however even that won't make you into a superstar photographer. What will is practise ask others advice and try not to make the same error again. Qualifications will impress the unaware but showing what you can do will impress even more. There are literally hundreds of you tube contributers how give great advice and that is where I would start. Presenting a good portfolio of your work on the internet well you can quess the rest.
One thing I would say is look at the competition around you. there may well be fantastic photographers near you already equiped to process photos far cheaper than you can.
Starting out from point zero is damn hard,my wife and I had to more or less from a run down different type of business and to get established took about 7 years.

The thing is do you want to do it to suppliment your hobby or do it as a full time business? there is a world of difference? have you considered any legal points such as third party insurance -no holiday pay- no money if going sick- someone able to stand in for you if necessary. just a few points often overlooked and many more as well such as contracts- your time spent checking out clients needs etc etc I could go on for ages.

just food for thought
footnote
My late father employed 35 people in his firm. if a position became available he would give it to someone with experiece over one with qualifications
 
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Welcome to the forum.
I think it depends on what level of 'paying photography' you are refering to. Many people make various amounts of money from stock image sites. I have no photography qualifications but have somehow managed to make a decent amount of money through Getty Images.
If however you want to be hired as a photographer that might be a different matter, although just managing to get a foot in the door and then living from recommendations may be enough. The problem with photography is that there are an awful lot of people out there wanting to make it (think this forum has 60k members).
Good luck and follow your goal and if you can take good photo's that might be all you require.
 
I,m looking at just subsidising an income initially, possibly through the sale of images as well as dipping my toe into product photography, and see how things go from there. My other half loves her photography too and during this lockdown period i have built her a nice size studio at the bottom of the garden as she would like to start photographing newborns as well as portraiture.
I've run my own business for over 25 years so the business side of things, accounts, insurances, advertising, websites etc, doesn't worry me at all, i,ve dealt with all of them before. I just want to start off on the right foot, if its advisable to have qualifications then i will proceed down that route before anything else, but if the consensus is that it really doesn't matter too much then that is all good and ill start to put the wheels in motion, all be it at a slow pace lol
 
Well said Peter. All I can do Is give myself as an example. You either go for it 110% and risk everything or go half hearted and fail. I gave up a Job with BT (EVR) although the money came in regular from wages we never could save. Sod that I thought lets try self employed. so we moved from south of London to the Midlands took over a failing boarding kennels and cattery and risked absolutely everything to make a go of it. Sometimes we very nearly went under and family helped us out which we repaid. When we took over the place hardly any clients on the books 350 actually, 25 years later sold with 5500 on the books. made enough to retire comfortablly but by god was it hard work , sometime 24 or more hours without a break.

That is the shortened version. Anyone wanting to go self employed really need to think very very hard at what they could gain or loose.
 
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What ever you decide Bryan good luck and hope you do well if you decide to go ahead. Just thinking maybe one thing to consider is to be a freelance company in house photographer, most want to show their products in some way or another
 
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Evening all, newby to this forum here.
I have a question regarding photography qualifications, i imagine its been asked before so please be gentle.
In the professional world of paying photography, something i,m hoping to venture into in the near future, is it beneficial to have any academic credentials?
I,m 48 with poor school grades, from many many moons ago, so i,m guessing I would struggle to get any academic placings anyway.
What are your thoughts all??????
Thanks all..........

12 years ago I studied as a mature student and left with a 1st class Photography degree. Since then I have worked full time as an architectural photographer. At no time while working professionally has a client ever asked me what qualifications I have or what equipment I use, they are only interested in the end result.

The reason I went back to university was for the interest in studying. If I just wanted to progress in photography I would have probably just taken courses in the areas I wanted to improve and wouldn't have bothered with academic qualifications.
 
Evening all, newby to this forum here.
I have a question regarding photography qualifications, i imagine its been asked before so please be gentle.
In the professional world of paying photography, something i,m hoping to venture into in the near future, is it beneficial to have any academic credentials?
I,m 48 with poor school grades, from many many moons ago, so i,m guessing I would struggle to get any academic placings anyway.
What are your thoughts all??????
Thanks all..........


Suppose it depends what photogrpahy you want to do... But Let me say.. I am guesisng my education was worse than yours:) I started photogrpahy in my late 40s and went full time after I was 50 and am now in my twelth year doing this for a living .. I learnt all i know on line and lots of trial error.. . very slowly.....
 
As has been said I doubt it makes much difference to selling your services but there are non-academic qualifications such as the RPS Distinctions which gives you some letters after your name that might help on a business card, etc.
 
Thanks for all your helpful replies guys.
The idea of returning to eduction to learn more about photography is a real interest to me, regardless of any qualifications received at the end of the course, as i love learning about the things that i,m interested in. But having researched into it more the costs are quite a lot, in the thousands, which i,m sure are worth the money but not cheap in the scheme of things, plus the duration of the courses can be full time for a couple of years, again i,m sure it's justified.
I think maybe the way to go, for me anyway, will be to research the areas of photography i want to pursue and then just take the plunge, nothing ventured nothing gained.
 
Thanks for all your helpful replies guys.
The idea of returning to eduction to learn more about photography is a real interest to me, regardless of any qualifications received at the end of the course, as i love learning about the things that i,m interested in. But having researched into it more the costs are quite a lot, in the thousands, which i,m sure are worth the money but not cheap in the scheme of things, plus the duration of the courses can be full time for a couple of years, again i,m sure it's justified.
I think maybe the way to go, for me anyway, will be to research the areas of photography i want to pursue and then just take the plunge, nothing ventured nothing gained.

I wouldn't worry about qualifications from setting up a business point of view, clients won't care at all.

Your portfolio and how you market your business will determine if you are successful or not.

Training via workshops can however be useful in terms of learning new skills both in terms of running a business and improving your photography, if you can find a relevant "good" workshop.
 
Your portfolio and how you market your business will determine if you are successful or not.
This is possibly the most useful advice so far.

:plus1:
 
is it beneficial to have any academic credentials?

As a tool to convince others of your ability. Maybe, but your personality and your portfolio will do that.

As a learning and improvement for yourself - yes if picked sensibly
 
As others have said, there is no requirement to have qualifications, certainly on the photographic side of running a business. Some education on the business side of running a business may be beneficial, although not something your customers would know about.

Depending on your genre, there may be a benefit of having recognition by someone like the Royal Photographic Society, such as the Licentiate or above, and if there are industry awards / competition, then entering and winning these is good for marketing.
 
12 years ago I studied as a mature student and left with a 1st class Photography degree. Since then I have worked full time as an architectural photographer. At no time while working professionally has a client ever asked me what qualifications I have or what equipment I use, they are only interested in the end result.
^^^ This ^^^
Your portfolio and how you market your business will determine if you are successful or not.
^^^ and this ^^^
When I entered the profession in the early to mid 70s formal qualifications were needed if you were to find meaningful employment and the same is still true in the rapidly declining employed photographer field.
However working for yourself the strength of your portfolio and your business acumen are more important, if you do go full time then membership of one of the professional bodies could be beneficial.
 
When I entered the profession in the early to mid 70s formal qualifications were needed if you were to find meaningful employment
That same period was when I was most active in press photography, working mostly for local newspapers and magazines.

I had no formal training in photography and I just went to every local function I could find, took the pictures and sent them in. After a while, editors started to ring me and "suggest" events I might like to cover. Most weeks, I made more money from the photography than from my day job.

There are many different paths to commercial success. Which you take will depend on a wide variety of circumstances, such as your personality and your chosen field.
 
I have no qualifications at all, aside from my driving licence. The only time I was ever asked what qualifications I had was when I tried to get into a photography degree course.
Whilst I am not a professional photographer I have earned some income from it over the years.
As already said, personality and portfolio are likely to be more important. Good luck!
 
There are many different paths to commercial success. Which you take will depend on a wide variety of circumstances
Indeed, I had a dream to enter scientific photography, and eventually achieved that dream enjoying a 35 year career as a scientific photographer at the Natural History Museum, so my qualifications were important for that dream.
My first job was with a local newspaper, where the chief photographer had no formal qualifications apart from experience, but his deputy had formal qualifications and went on to establish the photojournalism degree course at Sheffield.
 
'Qualifications' are often an indicator that a person has been through a particular level of education/training, and is thus equipped to perform in certain roles. Obvs experience is important, but d would you employ a newly qualified solicitor, or someone with years of 'experience' but no qualifications?

You will find loads of anecdotes from those without qualifications, as to how having none never held them back etc, but look at people in top positions in many professions, and you soon see that most have some form of relevant academic/vocational qualifications. You don't get any self-trained surgeons...

As for photography; I'd say that any qualification in the field is practically useless, and not something I'd ever look for if I ever needed to employ someone to take pics. Evidence of experience and talent are the only important things. But if you want to study photography, then go for it.

I have what many would consider a 'useless' degree. I went to university to get an education, not a job. Having recognition of your talents and abilities, is what matters. And that can only come by showing others what you are capable of.
 
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As a full time photographer for over 30 years, and as someone who tried to employ a photographer to help me out, QUALIFICATIONS ARE VALUELESS.

I was the chief photographer for a publishing company with 16 titles I was trying to work for every month. I would get back in to the office at 22.00 from possibly having started at 06.00, and there was always some arse of an editor with a studio job for me to do before I went home.... there was one 5 year spell where, in that 5 years I had 7 day I didn't work. I was self emloyed, but ran that department for them. It was a time of plenty. Anyway, it was obvious I couldn't keep that pace up for ever and I couldn't be in two places at once, although I did try a few times!

I advertised for a photographer, employed through the books, to run the studio and do the odd location shoot (there was no way I wanted to be tied to the studio). We had a deluge of responses, and we whittled it down for interview on the basis of qualifications, interests and arranged for portfolios to be brought in. I would not trust a digital portfolio with a bargepole.

The incumbents turned up with their books. We decided we give the girl from Bournemouth college with her BA in Photography a trial. She was despatched to cover the Press Day at the NEC International Bike Show. What this entailed was being at the NEC for about 07.45, get signed in and then go round and take unveiling pictures of the new models of bikes, publicity girlies in their undies, or lack of, any interesting punters, macro details that were interesting, new products..... she came back having shot 36 ROLLS of 35mm E6. Out of which there were possibly a handful of publishable pictures..... I had to go back the next day and do what I could to recover the situation - but of course we lost all the razamataz, that only happens once on each stand, plus the halls were now heaving with the public, so getting uncluttered shots of the new bikes was virtually impossible because they had all paid to come and see them....... she had a superb portfolio, but couldn't take a photograph of her own volition to save her life. We took on a chap with no qualifications, only a hobby interest in photography but a great zest for life, bikes and a colourful character. I coached him a bit in the studio for a week and he went on to establish his own commercial studio, with no qualifications whatsoever.

In photography you are judged by your results - and you are only as good as your last job. Nowadays some clever computer bods who can blanket publicise themselves get the limelight. If you are god at self publicising, you should be able to get plenty of work provided your work can stand out from the crowd, t is a very crowded marketplace and it is a bit like the bearpit in the stock exchange, those who can shout the loudest get heard. The days of personal relationships seem to have dwindled. Qualifications won't help you in that bunfight.
 
QUALIFICATIONS ARE VALUELESS.
There will always be bad experiences... Qualifications are needed if you are seeking employment within the Civil Service, Fringe Bodies, the MoD and civilian Police Photographers, I can tell you from experience that there are/were many fine photographers in those groups, sadly there are fewer and fewer opportunities in these areas (I am not sure that there are dedicated photographic departments now in many police forces apart from the Met).
Yes these days results and business acumen are far more important.
 
There will always be bad experiences... Qualifications are needed if you are seeking employment within the Civil Service, Fringe Bodies, the MoD and civilian Police Photographers, I can tell you from experience that there are/were many fine photographers in those groups, sadly there are fewer and fewer opportunities in these areas (I am not sure that there are dedicated photographic departments now in many police forces apart from the Met).
Yes these days results and business acumen are far more important.


Civil Service? Get a proper job. Spongers off the rest of society.
 
The answer is that it depends on which genre of photography you are aiming to get into.

For almost all B2C work a qualification (a real one) will be pointless. But for a large number of B2B staff roles (yep, they still exist)
some form of paper qualification is usually preferable.
 
Not to mention the small number of military photographers who seem to consistently produce incredible work
 
We decided we give the girl from Bournemouth college with her BA in Photography a trial. She was despatched to cover the Press Day at the NEC International Bike Show
We took on a chap with no qualifications, only a hobby interest in photography but a great zest for life, bikes and a colourful character. I coached him a bit in the studio for a week and he went on to establish his own commercial studio, with no qualifications whatsoever.
Did the girl from Bournemouth college have any bikes/bike show photos in her portfolio? Funny that the guy you coached for a week did a better job than the "girl" that you "dispatched" ...

Yes she had a degree but it's not her fault if her degree didn't cover how to work a trade show.
 
Yes she had a degree but it's not her fault if her degree didn't cover how to work a trade show.
Exactly, qualifications do not make you a better photographer nor do they give you the ability to be able to photograph any assignment, this reads to me as a management failure in not providing suitable training/coaching etc. When I first started work even though well qualified I was apprenticed and supervised until I had gained the needed skills.
 
Not to mention the small number of military photographers who seem to consistently produce incredible work
Quite right. I was a military photographer for many many years, the training was excellent and the job varied and always interesting. A good number of my colleagues went on to become scenes of crime photographers when they left the military. Whilst I do not believe that formal qualifications are necessary to make a success in photography the knowledge that you learn by doing them can be a great help. However, and this is true of just about any business, you need drive and determination to go with the ability to do the job well. You can have all the training in the world but if you are not prepared to give 100% you will just become a clever failure! On the other hand if you are prepared to work very hard and learn from your peers (never be afraid to ask) you can have a great career - having said that I am at the end of my professional career and I get the feeling that it is much harder to make money these days, but I may be wrong. Also just take a moment to reflect that what may be a fantastic enjoyable hobby now is a totally different beast when it becomes a full time job and you have deadlines to and clients to please. If you do make the jump I wish you well it is a fantastic career if it goes well.
 
I was a military photographer for many many years, the training was excellent and the job varied and always interesting. A good number of my colleagues went on to become scenes of crime photographers when they left the military
Was the training at the Joint Services School of Photography? If my memory serves me right the qualifications gained were considered the equal of City & Guilds 744/745 when it came to recruiting in the Civil Service and Police photographic Depts.
 
The incumbents turned up with their books. We decided we give the girl from Bournemouth college with her BA in Photography a trial.


Did the girl from Bournemouth college have any bikes/bike show photos in her portfolio? Funny that the guy you coached for a week did a better job than the "girl" that you "dispatched" ...

Yes she had a degree but it's not her fault if her degree didn't cover how to work a trade show.
Sounds to me more like a failure of recruitment, than the 'trainee'. Send someone whose experience of a particular type of job is totally unknown, on their own, without supervision, and expect perfect results? Surely, a 'trainee' would need to shadow an experienced staffer for a while, until they could prove they are up to it, before being sent out to cover important jobs on their own? As for her degree; photographing a trade show is more about achieving good technical results, rather than creating 'art'. Perhaps she went on to be a much better photographer, artistically, then you? Who knows. Everyone sees photography differently. I can tell you now, that having a degree in photography would get you a foot in the door with far more design/advertising type agencies, than just a portfolio showing technical competency. Courses for horses.


In photography you are judged by your results - and you are only as good as your last job
Indeed.
 
Was the training at the Joint Services School of Photography? If my memory serves me right the qualifications gained were considered the equal of City & Guilds 744/745 when it came to recruiting in the Civil Service and Police photographic Depts.
The initial basic training was at the Joint school of photography RAF Cosford but after a couple of years experience an advanced course for Navy photographers was undertaken at HMS Excellent. There were also additional short courses that were undertaken when you were going to do a specific job. When I did my basic training in 1977 the 3 services trained separately and had a slightly different course length and content. The Royal Navy course, which I was part of were not only intent in making sure that you were fit for the role of a professional photographer but also able to work well as part of a small team or on your own. Any indication that you thought the life of a photographer was going to be easy and you were off the course, even in the last week. There were a lot more volunteers than places. Todays Navy photographers are still trained at RAF Cosford but the course is now a joint service one and the school has been renamed the Defence school of photography. I honestly believe it was (and still is)the best job in the Navy and I loved every minute of my 34 year career. Today there are only around 40 professional photographers in the Royal Navy but they turn out some incredible work in some very challenging situations. If you google "Peregrine Trophy" (the annual awards ceremony) you will see a selection of their images.
 
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