Question about fixing

simon ess

Just call me Roxanne.
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I was having one of those idle thoughts for an idle fellow type moments and I thought, " if my fixer has gone off and I need to refix a roll, will I be able to tell before I take it off the spiral? If not, do I need to wait for the roll to dry and put it back on the spiral before fixing again in the tank?

Cheers
 
Hey Simon pay attention for previous posts...if the negs B\W have a milky film over them then the fixer is going off
 
I thought you would be able to tell before you took it off the spiral... I know if my fixer is 'weak'(for want of a better word), I can tell the negatives have a pink tinge to them... just by looking at the last image....
 
Hey Simon pay attention for previous posts...if the negs B\W have a milky film over them then the fixer is going off

Yes, I know Brian.

The question, if you were paying attention, is about what to do if the fixer is going off.

Do keep up, there's a good chap.
:D
 
Yes, I know Brian.

The question, if you were paying attention, is about what to do if the fixer is going off.

Do keep up, there's a good chap.
:D

Put it back in and leave it and eventually the milky film will go..as if the fixer has fixed the film so far it just needs more time (as it's weak). If the fixer has gone off completley then you have had it exposing the negs to light.
 
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So in other words you want a fixer strength tester thingy to test the fixer before using it on a film? Developer test is to dunk a bit of unexposed film. I'd guess you could try dunking a bit of unexposed undeveloped film into the jug of fixer and see whether it does something and whether that something was any earthly use?

One shot fixer is probably the easiest answer to this dilemma but not the cheapest.
 
Because I develo film so rarely these days, I tend to do a clip test on the fix before starting, easy on 35mm just snip a bit of the leader off, dunk it in an eggcup full of the fix, and time how long it takes to clear the film. Then double that to get the time to fix your film. It's more of a pita with 120 obviously, as you have to carefully snip a thin sliver off the film in the dark or inside your dark bag. I'm always a bit scared using scissors inside a bag, very close to my fingers, should get some round nosed ones I suppose ;)
 
Well if your question is "what to do if the fixer is going off"..well simple buy some more :D
You should work for Microsoft technical support Brian ... They also specialise in answers that are technically correct but no bloody use whatsoever
 
Let's break this down into its component parts and see if that gets me anywhere.

I say chaps, if I fix a roll of film in fixer what 'as gorn orf, will I be able to tell while the film is on the spiral?
 
You should work for Microsoft technical support Brian ... They also specialise in answers that are technically correct but no bloody use whatsoever

Well I suppose it could happen but I've never had a B\W fixer go off completly even after non use for a year or so, mixed and in a sealed container. When I know it's old (or weak), I leave the negs in for longer than the recommended times and if not long enough get the milky film. But if the question was re-phrased like:- someone has given me some fixer and how do I know it's anygood then.................
But then there is the point of over fixing and what it does to the quality of the negs.......................
 
I say chaps, If I 'ang up to dry a roll of film what I 'ave fixed in fixer what as gorn orf, do I need to let it dry before puttin' back on the spiral to re-fix.

I thank you
 
Let's break this down into its component parts and see if that gets me anywhere.

I say chaps, if I fix a roll of film in fixer what 'as gorn orf, will I be able to tell while the film is on the spiral?
I say chaps, If I 'ang up to dry a roll of film what I 'ave fixed in fixer what as gorn orf, do I need to let it dry before puttin' back on the spiral to re-fix.

I thank you
I would let it dry yes.... because when it's wet it sticks to itself ...I know I've tried.
 
The short answer to the "can I tell" part is yes and no. Stepping back, fixing converts the remaining silver halides in the film to another compound that can be washed out. What it produces is a couple of different compounds, one soluble, the other not. If the fixer is fresh, the reaction will be pushed to producing the soluble version; if not, the insoluble. Think of the effect of burning charcoal - enough oxygen and you get carbon dioxide, not enough and you get carbon monoxide. The same but different in a deadly way. And the fixer alternative is a sulphur compound that can react eventually to stain the film. The film might not be milky, but it ain't fixed! So, milky is not completely fixed, and, in the worst case, clear is fixed but will stain later or sooner.

If you remove the film from the spiral, you can still reload while it's wet by doing so in a bowl of water - the water will act as a lubricant, and you'll find it loads.

If the film appears speckled, refixing in fresh fixer should work OK.

The old "double the clearing time and throw" was intended to have fixer discarded before too much by product built up to impede the proper fixing. The insoluble compound is the reason behind the counsel to use two fixing baths for prints, as fixer in the paper base takes more shifting than fixer in the emulsion.
 
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If you remove the film from the spiral, you can still reload while it's wet by doing so in a bowl of water - the water will act as a lubricant, and you'll find it loads.

Fantastic!

That's a gem of information.

Thanks Stephen
 
There's only one person per day designated to answer the question that's been asked. The rest of us answer a random other one ;)
 
If you remove the film from the spiral, you can still reload while it's wet by doing so in a bowl of water - the water will act as a lubricant, and you'll find it loads.

If the film appears speckled, refixing in fresh fixer should work OK.

The old "double the clearing time and throw" was intended to have fixer discarded before too much by product built up to impede the proper fixing. The insoluble compound is the reason behind the counsel to use two fixing baths for prints, as fixer in the paper base takes more shifting than fixer in the emulsion.

Thank you for the extra information.
 
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As a last resort you can re-fix a film a couple of years after the original fix - I have done that and seen a major improvement in the negs - but I'm not saying I would recommend it as a standard procedure !

In this circumstance, reloading the spool, and drying the film strips afterward, are both more difficult because you will probably already have cut the film.
 
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I'm always a bit scared using scissors inside a bag, very close to my fingers, should get some round nosed ones I suppose ;)

Or ask a grown up to do it for you!!! :p:p:p
 
There's only one person per day designated to answer the question that's been asked. The rest of us answer a random other one ;)

Well, I'll attempt an answer to a different fixing question - what do I do if I fix before development? Actually, you can still possibly salvage something by developing (in the right type of developer) after fixing, because the fixer only removes silver halides, and the undeveloped film does have some of the halides converted to silver by the light. Think about it - film will darken on exposure to light even if not developed. Development just means you need less exposure to end up with an image.

If you use a developer that deposits more silver where it finds some already there, you can still produce an image from a fixed sheet of film.

I do not recommend this as an alternative to normal processing - treat it more as a curiosity.

Although I can foresee some of you experimenting :D

:film:
 
I was having one of those idle thoughts for an idle fellow type moments and I thought, " if my fixer has gone off and I need to refix a roll, will I be able to tell before I take it off the spiral? If not, do I need to wait for the roll to dry and put it back on the spiral before fixing again in the tank?

Cheers


Time for a jox grenade.....:ROFLMAO:

On a few occasions, and heck I've souped a lot of b/w, I've not noticed that the film isn't fixed properly, only when I'd got all the way to scanning did I see it.
Now I've had negs that are clearly not fixed, from faint swirly milk right up to great big solid patches of impenetrable white, but I have had some that look fine, except when scanned the blacks are subtly blocked up, it does clear with a re-fix but the faff factor just smashes me to bits.
I've checked these negs on a lightbox with a loupe and it is discernible, but not during a casual inspection as it comes off the reel over the kitchen sink.
Obviously you have to wait for the negs to be dry, then fanny about picking up dust with boxes and loupes, its not ideal.
So, I've removed the possibility of it happening by not taking fixer to exhaustion.
 
..and if you dev and fix correctly you can still get good results like these in 50 years time..Pentax S3 55mm tak:-


 
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