Quick Question about panning DSLR camera settings?

[sduk]

Hello, been doing quite a bit of practice of motorsport photography and have been reading up on here about the best shooting modes.

Am I right in thinking I want to be using a low aperture (maybe F20) and then I use a shutter speed of about 1/200 and I adjust that depending on how I get on?

I have been using the camera in Manual mode (i have a Sony A200) but it won't let me adjust the exposure in that mode. When I shoot at F22 it drops the exposure to -2.

I can easily adjust the exposure when I edit the RAW file but should I be able to keep it at 0 on the camera?

hope that makes sense, just after a wee bit of help

Sammy

 

[HoppyUK]

Hello, been doing quite a bit of practice of motorsport photography and have been reading up on here about the best shooting modes.

Am I right in thinking I want to be using a low aperture (maybe F20) and then I use a shutter speed of about 1/200 and I adjust that depending on how I get on?

I have been using the camera in Manual mode (i have a Sony A200) but it won't let me adjust the exposure in that mode. When I shoot at F22 it drops the exposure to -2.

I can easily adjust the exposure when I edit the RAW file but should I be able to keep it at 0 on the camera?

hope that makes sense, just after a wee bit of help

Sammy

No, it doesn't quite make sense Sammy Shutter speeds for panning depend on a few variables, mainly the speed of the subject, but in practical terms for motorsport something around 1/125sec and 1/250sec is a good starting point.

Of course you can adjust the exposure in manual. It sounds like you need to get a grip on the 'exposure triangle' of shutter speed, lens aperture and ISO, and how you must adjust them so that you end up with both the shutter speed you need, and correct exposure.

You should always aim to get exposure correct in-camera. Adjusting it in post processing will get you into trouble - for fine tuning or correcting accidents only.

 

[sduk]

yeah maybe I didnt word it clearly lol

I am comfortable with my shutter settings and aperture.

My main query is, my camera wont let me adjust the exposure on manual mode. It seems to go into auto mode and goes to -2 when i select F22.

Only if i adjust the aperture to say F5 does the aperture change to 0 or +1.

wish there was someone near me who I could do a bit of motorsport shooting with and get some help lol

 

[HoppyUK]

yeah maybe I didnt word it clearly lol

I am comfortable with my shutter settings and aperture.

My main query is, my camera wont let me adjust the exposure on manual mode. It seems to go into auto mode and goes to -2 when i select F22.

Only if i adjust the aperture to say F5 does the aperture change to 0 or +1.

wish there was someone near me who I could do a bit of motorsport shooting with and get some help lol

Of course you can get correct exposure in manual, and manual is also the best mode to use for panning, for several reasons I won't go in to.

Correct exposure is like filling a glass with water, and you must fill it exactly to the top. Shutter speed is how long you turn on the tap. Lens aperture is how far you turn the tap to adjust the flow. ISO is the size of the glass.

You can adjust all these things, and the settings will depend both on the effect you want and the brightness of the light (which is the water pressure in this analogy).

All camera settings work on a halving/doubling principle. Shutter speed is obvious, and 1/125sec is clearly twice as lomng as 1/250sec. ISO is also logical, and ISO400 is twice as sensitive to light as ISO200 etc.

The tricky one is lens aperture, where the linear relationship isn't obvious and it's also back to front. That is, f/2.8 for example, allows twice as much light to pass as f/4, which is twice f/5.6, which is twice f/8 and so on. They are linked by the square root of 2, which is 1.4, and while there is mathematical logic to it, you just have to learn it.

So once you've got your head around that, you can see that you can mix and match all these settings to get the result you want, but it all depends on the brightness of the available light. You can't just set what you want and try to sort it out in post processing. And very often you can't get what you want without making compromises.

When you're in manual, the meter in the viewfinder has no effect on the exposure, because that's then been locked. So you must manually adjust the settings so that the indicator is centred.

 

[Photodiva]

Hi. I'm just wondering why f22? If the car you are panning is parallel to you, you don't need that small an aperture. If the car is at an oblique angle, then a f18 or similar helps. Panning is more of an 'art' than anything (at least my experience!) so I'd try 1/125 at f18 with an iso to suit the weather (dull or bright) and go from there. No experience of Sony cameras, though.

 

[mark4183]

Hello,

I tend to try and keep the aperture at F10 or in and around there but my shutter speeds vary by alot. At a recent day at croft i was shooting at 1/15 and also 1/125.

I only shoot in shutter mode though

 

[PsiFox]

yeah maybe I didnt word it clearly lol

I am comfortable with my shutter settings and aperture.

My main query is, my camera wont let me adjust the exposure on manual mode. It seems to go into auto mode and goes to -2 when i select F22.

Only if i adjust the aperture to say F5 does the aperture change to 0 or +1.

wish there was someone near me who I could do a bit of motorsport shooting with and get some help lol

I'm a little confused

The settings 0 and +1 sound like exposure compensation settings. Aperture is always the "F" no.

Now I'm a Nikon user but is F22 where you say it goes into auto a physical aperture ring on the lens or the turn of a dial on the camera body?

It sounds like a lens that needs to be locked at F22 to work automatically with the camera body, in which case there would be a little locking switch. Well on a Nikon it would.

 

[tdodd]

I can understand choosing to go to f/20 ish if you are struggling to achieve a slow enough speed at 100 ISO, but it is highly unlikely that you need f/20ish for DOF and it may have other undesirable impact on IQ, so if f/5ish gets you the exposure you want then why not use that? If shooting through fencing you'll be better off with a wide aperture in any case.

As an example, this was shot at f/1.8, because I wanted to make the fencing vanish and the light was (fortunately) very low indeed, still needing 400 ISO to give me 1/50....

This was in daylight and, with no fencing to worry about, allowed a more moderate f/7.1 to get to 1/80 at 100 ISO...

 

[Britinusa]

Ok i think i got you..im new to this to and the first time i went manual i got lost to..

You set shutter speed, and app, and the compensation is - or +, then it means your over or under exposure, to keep the the current shutter speed and app you need to adjust the iso..or just adjust the app to get the best exposure..

I hope im not talkin rubbish..

thanks

 

[sduk]

thanks for the help, my post below had a mistake lol it should have read...

yeah maybe I didnt word it clearly lol

I am comfortable with my shutter settings and aperture.

My main query is, my camera wont let me adjust the exposure on manual mode. It seems to go into auto mode and goes to -2 when i select F22.

Only if i adjust the aperture to say F5 does the exposure change to 0 or +1.

wish there was someone near me who I could do a bit of motorsport shooting with and get some help lol

just a typo that made things even more confusing.

 

[DizMatt]

My main query is, my camera wont let me adjust the exposure on manual mode. It seems to go into auto mode and goes to -2 when i select F22.

Only if i adjust the aperture to say F5 does the exposure change to 0 or +1.

right, I'm confused and may have missed some of this thread
or I'm just wrong
You cannot have exposure compensation in manual mode.
you set the aperture and then exposure comp (and ISO) and the camera does what it's told. No metering etc (apart from as a guide that the camera estimates)
in this instance you have said to the camera, F22, very little light and the camera responds with...-2...it is too dark
then you have said, F5...more light (wider aperture) and the camera says...0 (great), or +1...too much light (typically)
so YOU have changed the exposure, not the camera. it can only report what you tell it to do...you're in manual mode!

for panning, well surely you use Tv mode (if manual isn't working for you)
set the shutter speed and then adjust exposure compensation and ISO until you get the aperture you want.
so if you set Tv = 1/30s or something (at a guess) then the camera will meter and give you an appropriate aperture. if you want a smaller aperture, increase the ISO so that it can get the same amount of light response from a smaller pin-hole. Or you can set exposure compensation, if you want it to change the aperture and allow more light into the camera.

but no-one (I think ) has mentioned image stabilisation. I thought that sony's had this built into the body, therefore it will TRY to compensate for your lateral panning.
I would suggest deactivating it or using an alternate mode (as most OS/IS/VC long lenses have so that it only tries to correct for vertical vibration, not horizontal.

(sorry if I'm barking up the wrong tree, it happens)

 

[PaulF]

Make it simple, forget Manual mode for the time being. Use Shutter Priority (not sure what that is represented by on Sony, it's 'S' on Nikon), set your 'exposure metering' to Spot and let the camera sort the aperture out itself.

Most pro motorsport togs go with that a lot of the time so it's a good starting point.

The speed of the subject will have a huge bearing on the shutter speed required to get a well panned shot with motion blur of the background, the faster the subject is travelling the easier it is.

I don't know where you are in the country so can't guess your local track but there will be threads in the motorsport section from your local track, take a look at those and check the exif on the images to get an idea of the shutter speeds you need to achieve the shot you want.

Oh, best advice is practice and when you think you've got it practice more

Paul.

 

[HoppyUK]

Make it simple, forget Manual mode for the time being. Use Shutter Priority (not sure what that is represented by on Sony, it's 'S' on Nikon), set your 'exposure metering' to Spot and let the camera sort the aperture out itself.

Most pro motorsport togs go with that a lot of the time so it's a good starting point.

The speed of the subject will have a huge bearing on the shutter speed required to get a well panned shot with motion blur of the background, the faster the subject is travelling the easier it is.

I don't know where you are in the country so can't guess your local track but there will be threads in the motorsport section from your local track, take a look at those and check the exif on the images to get an idea of the shutter speeds you need to achieve the shot you want.

Oh, best advice is practice and when you think you've got it practice more

Paul.

This is not good general advice, the exposure is likely to vary a lot. Manual is the more reliable mode for panning.

By definition when you're panning, the background is changing and with motorsport that can change from grass to tarmac to sky to shade, to other cars, whatever. The meter will attempt to respond to that, when in all probability the light on the subject will not actually be changing at all.

Secondly, the cars change from black to white to yellow, blue all colours and tones and any auto mode, and particularly with spot metering the exposure will be thrown by that when, again, the exposure should be constant.

The best method for motorsport, usually, is to set the exposure in manual, by whatever means suits you, and lock it there at the shutter speed you need. A good tip is to use a reference tone like grass or tarmac, and point the camera at that in spot mode. Note the shift in the meter reading from zero (it will probably be close to zero anyway if exposure is correct) and that is your constant, say it is +0.3 in the case. If the light changes, clouds etc, you can just go back to that reference tone and adjust exposure to read +0.3 again and you know it will be correct.

If you watch pros at an event, you will often see them pointing their long lenses at the ground for no apparent reason. They're checking the exposure against their reference tone.

Edit: general advice, when you're taking a lot of pictures of basically the same thing, when the subject is changing but the light is constant, use manual. When the light is changing but the subject is not, use an auto mode.

 

[PaulF]

Hi Richard,

I don't think the advice I gave was not good, it was specific to motorsport panning.

Manual has it's uses in motorsport but as I said most pro guys (I'm not one of them) use shutter priority for panning not manual.

In the example you have given you have pointed out one of the problems with manual mode for panning, that being that the cars are different colours. Set the exposure in manual using the tarmac/grass a grey/green car comes along all is ok, a white one will be over exposed and a dark one will be under exposed. The background will be exposed correctly but maybe not the subject of the photo.

If it is cloudy and changeable light then the problem with manual is amplified. If it's sunny the different colours of the cars reflect the sunlight differently too.

Using shutter priority and spot/centre metering is the easiest way to get the correct exposure of the car, works best in my experience in conjunction with 'back button focusing' where the metering and focus operation of the camera are separated.

Sammy,
You have a couple of alternative suggestions now. The best way to go now is try all methods and pick the one that works for you, we're all individuals.

 

[HoppyUK]

Hi Richard,

I don't think the advice I gave was not good, it was specific to motorsport panning.

Manual has it's uses in motorsport but as I said most pro guys (I'm not one of them) use shutter priority for panning not manual.

In the example you have given you have pointed out one of the problems with manual mode for panning, that being that the cars are different colours. Set the exposure in manual using the tarmac/grass a grey/green car comes along all is ok, a white one will be over exposed and a dark one will be under exposed. The background will be exposed correctly but maybe not the subject of the photo.

If it is cloudy and changeable light then the problem with manual is amplified. If it's sunny the different colours of the cars reflect the sunlight differently too.

Using shutter priority and spot/centre metering is the easiest way to get the correct exposure of the car, works best in my experience in conjunction with 'back button focusing' where the metering and focus operation of the camera are separated.

Sammy,
You have a couple of alternative suggestions now. The best way to go now is try all methods and pick the one that works for you, we're all individuals.

The advice I gave was specific to motorsport.

Technically correct exposure means it is the same regardless of the colour of the car - that's the point you seem to be missing. Mistakes will happen if you use any auto mode, especially when combined with spot metering. Maybe it won't matter, but there's less potential for error in manual.

 

[PaulF]

The advice I gave was specific to motorsport.

Technically correct exposure means it is the same regardless of the colour of the car - that's the point you seem to be missing. Mistakes will happen if you use any auto mode, especially when combined with spot metering. Maybe it won't matter, but there's less potential for error in manual.

I didn't think I was missing a point, the op is having trouble getting correct exposure in manual mode when panning, I have offered an alternative method that 99% of the time works just fine, remember this is in the 'basics' section so keeping it simple is the order of the day

Just as an example. Using the method I mentioned above, out of 1200+ shots I took at the BTCC last weekend I binned less than 5 shots due to incorrect exposure (I exposed for the headlights and it didn't work too well )

Sammy, as I said earlier, try all the methods mentioned and use the one that works for you.

 

[HoppyUK]

I didn't think I was missing a point, the op is having trouble getting correct exposure in manual mode when panning, I have offered an alternative method that 99% of the time works just fine, remember this is in the 'basics' section so keeping it simple is the order of the day

Just as an example. Using the method I mentioned above, out of 1200+ shots I took at the BTCC last weekend I binned less than 5 shots due to incorrect exposure (I exposed for the headlights and it didn't work too well )

Sammy, as I said earlier, try all the methods mentioned and use the one that works for you.

If you were in manual, as described above, all your exposures would have been a) correct, and b) identical - regardless of whether the headlights were on or not. With respect, I think you are still missing the point

 

[DizMatt]

I think hoppy is right and I understand his point personally in an ideal world but on a British track I would suggest that the light is not constant due to many factors. Mainly clouds.
Loads of good advice here. I think the OP should practice and post back with some results

 

[shaylou]

Hello, been doing quite a bit of practice of motorsport photography and have been reading up on here about the best shooting modes.

Am I right in thinking I want to be using a low aperture (maybe F20) and then I use a shutter speed of about 1/200 and I adjust that depending on how I get on?

I have been using the camera in Manual mode (i have a Sony A200) but it won't let me adjust the exposure in that mode. When I shoot at F22 it drops the exposure to -2.

I can easily adjust the exposure when I edit the RAW file but should I be able to keep it at 0 on the camera?

hope that makes sense, just after a wee bit of help

Sammy

So what you are saying is that F22 is not wide enough to let in enough light (I think)? My first thought is why F22? I think the other op made a good point about learning the exposure triangle, not just by definition but how to apply it to your situation.

I'm some what new at this as well and have not done a whole lot of panning shoots but when I did do some I had my lens way more open than that. I want to say around f6 or 7. I didn't know if this was correct at the time but it seemed reasonable considering the effect I was trying to pull off. They came out nice.

If the fstop is not letting in enough light why don't you just open it up a bit?

 

[tdodd]

I think hoppy is right........

So do I. It would be unusual for him to be anything but.

Here are a couple of unedited shots taken just 3 minutes apart and in the same lighting. The exposure is identical (set manually) and has served me well for both the white car and the black car. It would make no difference what colour/tone of vehicle passed by me - with the same lighting on the subject there would be no reason for the exposure to change. I can't imagine why I would even contemplate trying to meter such things with spot metering and auto-exposure.

I'll not deny they might benefit from some post production work, and they're not even very good, but as far as the exposures are concerned at the moment of capture I don't see room to do any better. The histograms run, in both cases, all the way from the extreme left hand edge all the way to the right, without clipping at either end. The tarmac and trackside have the same exposure, which is good for consistency when having several shots from the same event, and the blacks look black and the whites look white, and both look correct on the black car with white stripes. You could run yellow/blue/green/pink/spotted/striped/chequered cars past the camera and the exposure would be spot on for each and every one with the exposure locked in manually.

Now, in rapidly changing lighting I'm not saying that manual would be better, but I sure as hell wouldn't be trying to spot meter all shades of vehicle as they hurtled past me. I'd rather take my chances with evaluative, where individual tonal variations wouldn't send the exposure swinging wildly all over the place depending on where the spot happened to land at the moment of capture.

For those who care about such things, you might also note the fairly sunny conditions, and my exposure settings which are just 1/3 of a stop brighter than a standard "Sunny 16" exposure. No guarantee that autoexposure would land me in the same place so reliably.

 

[BigGreenMonster]

Hello, been doing quite a bit of practice of motorsport photography and have been reading up on here about the best shooting modes.

Am I right in thinking I want to be using a low aperture (maybe F20) and then I use a shutter speed of about 1/200 and I adjust that depending on how I get on?

I have been using the camera in Manual mode (i have a Sony A200) but it won't let me adjust the exposure in that mode. When I shoot at F22 it drops the exposure to -2.

I can easily adjust the exposure when I edit the RAW file but should I be able to keep it at 0 on the camera?

hope that makes sense, just after a wee bit of help

Sammy

Back to the OP.

What I'm reading here is then when you set the camera to manual mode, and select f/22 @ 1/200s, the exposure meter on the camera always shows -2.

I'm also assuming the exposure meter goes from +2 to -2.

If that is the case, you are broadly correct that you should aim to get the in camera exposure meter to around the 0 mark when manually exposing a shot (not always the case, but for the sake of simplicity lets start here).

If the Camera is consistently showing -2 with the above settings, it simply means that the image will be underexposed (by quite possibly more than 2 stops). Just open up the aperture, or slow down the shutter until the meter reads nearer to zero.

As others have suggested, to get the panning effect, you will probably want a slower speed anyway, and you can afford to open up the aperture quite away and still maintain a good depth of field, so you gave quite some leeway here, and then there's always the ISO / ND filter if you need more room for manoeuvre.

 

[HoppyUK]

So do I... <snip>

Excellent post from Tim

The histograms in the top right of each pic tell the exposure story. They both have a big lump in the middle, which is the mid-grey background that takes up most of the image area. Mid-grey should always be in the middle for 'technically correct' exposure.

But with the top image, there's a second bump to the right, which is the white car - where it should be. And with the bottom image, there's a second bump to the left, which is the black car - also where it should be.

If Tim had spot-metered on the car in an auto-mode, it would have moved both the white and black car's bumps to the middle and, just guessing, that looks like it would have been a shift of about three stops. In other words, substantial under-exposure of the overall image with the white car, and similar over-exposure of the black car image.

I think this perhaps illustrates where the disagreement is. Correct exposure is when mid-grey tones are in the middle, not when the main subject tones are in the middle (unless it's a mid-grey car) and you always get this problem with motorsport, even more so when the background also changes as you pan across.

As a general rule, spot metering is best used only with manual exposure, or it will throw you all over the place. And also, only use spot metering if you have a good grasp of the 18% mid-grey concept. Basically, the spot should always be over a mid-tone, like grass, or most tarmac, maybe brickwork - you get to know what works with practise.

 

[PaulF]

I think hoppy is right and I understand his point personally in an ideal world but on a British track I would suggest that the light is not constant due to many factors. Mainly clouds.
Loads of good advice here. I think the OP should practice and post back with some results

Good point well made.

Excellent post from Tim

<snip>

I think this perhaps illustrates where the disagreement is. Correct exposure is when mid-grey tones are in the middle, not when the main subject tones are in the middle (unless it's a mid-grey car) and you always get this problem with motorsport, even more so when the background also changes as you pan across.

As I see it there is no disagreement to illustrate, I have never said that manual mode cannot be used effectively, what I pointed out was that there are other methods that can be used as the OP is having trouble with manual mode to get the exposure correct. There is more than one way to skin a cat as the saying goes!

The post above from Tim is a good one and explains the histogram well. I could show similar screenshots of images taken in shutter priority.

Like Matt says above, the OP has a few suggestions to try now and see which work for him

 

[DazJW]

I think everyone might have misunderstood the OP's issue.

It sounds like the OP is simply confusing the meter in manual mode with exposure compensation setting in aperture priority and shutter priority modes because it appears in the same place in the viewfinder.

In the two priority modes the scale is a setting that you set to tune the camera's idea of the ideal exposure.

In manual mode the scale is the measurement (not a setting that you control) of how far away you are from what the camera thinks is the ideal exposure. If it thinks you're overexposing by more than two stops it will show +2 all the time because the scale only goes up to two and if it thinks you're underexposing by more than two stops it will show -2 all the time because the scale only goes down to -2.
If you set shutter speed, aperture and ISO to get the scale to read 0 you will have the same exposure settings as the camera would have given you in the priority modes.

 

[HoppyUK]

Paul, if you re-read what you have written, and what I have said and Tim has illustrated so well, you'll see that this bit in particular is where you're mistaken:

<snip>

In the example you have given you have pointed out one of the problems with manual mode for panning, that being that the cars are different colours. Set the exposure in manual using the tarmac/grass a grey/green car comes along all is ok, a white one will be over exposed and a dark one will be under exposed. The background will be exposed correctly but maybe not the subject of the photo.

<snip>

No. The background will be correctly exposed, and so will the cars - of any colour or tone.

 

[PaulF]

Paul, if you re-read what you have written, and what I have said and Tim has illustrated so well, you'll see that this bit in particular is where you're mistaken:



No. The background will be correctly exposed, and so will the cars - of any colour or tone.

Sorry, I didn't make that bit too clear. I was referring to maybe a sunny day whereby different coloured cars reflect light to lesser or greater degrees depending on the direction of the sun relative to your position, perhaps more noticeable with cars such as caterhams or kit cars. This is going a bit deep for the basics section though I think.

 

[HoppyUK]

Sorry, I didn't make that bit too clear. I was referring to maybe a sunny day whereby different coloured cars reflect light to lesser or greater degrees depending on the direction of the sun relative to your position, perhaps more noticeable with cars such as caterhams or kit cars. This is going a bit deep for the basics section though I think.

You made it perfectly clear Paul, just wrong I'm afraid. You are refusing to ackowledge the basics of exposure, which is that mid-toned subjects are correctly exposed when they sit in the middle of the histogram, with brigher subjects to the right, and darker ones to the left. Always.

Yes, this is the basics section, which is why I think it's especially important to give sound fundamental advice. Sorry.

 

[PaulF]

No need to apologize Richard, there are certainly some cross wires going around here.

No one that I can see is suggesting anything other than the histogram shown above is correct.

But, there are some instances where manual mode will just not work using the meter for the track/grass method. Once another (unmetered) light source is added into the mix, headlights, reflected sun, clouds moving, facing into the sun (close side of subject in shadow). Manual mode should still get you close in some of the examples but not bang on as some are suggesting.

I have only been answering the op's post with an alternative method of getting that correct (or at least very close) exposure it just seems that to some if it ain't manual then it ain't right! but I guess as 'most' of the pro motorsport guy's don't use manual 'most' of the time for panning I'll stick to using shutter priority 'most' of the time (sometimes spot sometimes centre metered), sometimes aperture and sometimes manual

As I have said all along, the op now has a few suggestions to work with and can decide for themselves what works for them.

I'm getting a little tired repeating myself now so assume we will have to agree to disagree

Paul.

 

[tdodd]

Paul, the concerns several of us have about your advice to use spot metering and priority mode (whilst shooting rapidly moving and constantly varying subjects) are explained in this short article by Sekonic....

http://www.sekonic.com/Classroom/MeteringTechniques/IncidentvsReflected.aspx

Of course, you can meter that way, and use exposure compensation to adjust for the varying reflectance of your subject, but why would you want to? And would you have time enough to do it for each and every vehicle passing every time the tonality of the vehicle changed?

My experience of UK weather is that the light does not often change rapidly or frequently. There are occasions when small, well defined clouds pass swiftly across the sun and send light levels all over the place, but those days are few and far between where I live. I imagine it's much the same elsewhere in the country. Even in such varied conditions, I may well decide that only one type of lighting suits my needs, so I might be happy to remain set up for the sunny moments, or the shady ones, and just shoot when the light is right.

So, given the option of adjusting my exposures each time the light changes, or each time a different (toned) vehicle passes, I'll usually find the former to be the more obvious choice. And that means that manual exposure is generally my preference.

Your mileage may vary

 

[HoppyUK]

Just to add to that Tim, if the light does change for whatever reason, there is the spot key-tone reference method that I described in post #13 to keep it on track. V easy.

As I know you know this keeps the exposure exactly constant when using manual, and on my evidence this the technique favoured by professionals.

 

[mrgubby]

I started out using shutter priority for motorsport and all my shots came out with the cars / bikes correctly exposed (honest, they were always spot on )

BUT

the problem came when viewing / printing them side by side, the track / grass kept changing brightness / colour depending on the subject (and its position).

I've since changed to manual mode & although the histograms can "drift" left - right at least the circuit doesn't change appearance between corner entry / exit

Having the circuit changing in a three shot sequence (corner approach, corner, leaving corner) looks poor