Quick wedding photography advice

[Crazyhorse]

I've just been reading through this. Can you really get insurance cover for one day? What would happen if the 'client' decided to sue you say a month or so afterwards because they didn't think your shots were very good etc? Not saying this is what will happen but I'm rather intrigued. (Or are we just talking public liability insurance). - Not that I know anything about insurance.

Thanks.

 

[snappingsam]

BTW- NEVER try out some new kit on a job without getting to know it first - not matter what camera stuff you've got, buying a new lens for a wedding is not going to make you a better photographer....

 

[big soft moose]

you can get by the day insurance - the biz costs element of which covers the shots resulting from that day , so it makes no difference when the suit occurs - exactly the same principle as with PL which covers you for P/L on the day so if someone falls over your camera bag (on that day) for example and then subsequently sues you'd be covered.

last time I looked by the day insurance was about £25 per day , which is good value if you are only working very occasionally , but rapidly becomes more costly than a standard per annum policies if you do weddings anything approaching regularly

 

[big soft moose]

he manages fine with just a Canon 60D and a 15-85 is usm and one spare battery, no second body no double of lenses. By the way he did 3 wedding last year too with the exact same equipment, and he charges about £400 and he has had no complaints.

And what exactly is he going to do when both batteries go flat , or the camera starts throwing Er99 just before the first dance etc - anyone can 'cope' while everything is going swimingly , what sorts the pro's from the walts is whether they can cope when things go wrong , and your 'freind' is going to fall distinctly on the walt side of the fence.

come to that I don't see any refference to a flashgun on that kit list - please tell us he isnt shooting weddings with the integral on camera flash

 

[fracster]

And what exactly is he going to do when both batteries go flat , or the camera starts throwing Er99 just before the first dance etc - anyone can 'cope' while everything is going swimingly , what sorts the pro's from the walts is whether they can cope when things go wrong , and your 'freind' is going to fall distinctly on the walt side of the fence.

come to that I don't see any refference to a flashgun on that kit list - please tell us he isnt shooting weddings with the integral on camera flash

I genuinely wonder, out of all the weddings done over the years, how many lenses have exploded, cameras metamorphised into cream doughnuts, batteries melted grips and cards sent themselves to Santa have ever actually happened?

 

[asphotographymk]

I genuinely wonder, out of all the weddings done over the years, how many lenses have exploded, cameras metamorphised into cream doughnuts, batteries melted grips and cards sent themselves to Santa have ever actually happened?

Does not matter how many.. All it takes is 1.

And yes i have had things break. I dropped a d300s of a wall a few years ago and pretty much destroyed it. I was holding it by the strap and the strap went. Busted the 50mm lens on impact aswell. The fact is if can happen, it does happen and when it does you need to be able to carry on shooting.

 

[fracster]

Does not matter how many.. All it takes is 1.

And yes i have had things break. I dropped a d300s of a wall a few years ago and pretty much destroyed it. I was holding it by the strap and the strap went. Busted the 50mm lens on impact aswell. The fact is if can happen, it does happen and when it does you need to be able to carry on shooting.

So it is not justification for hiking prices or deterring people from starting out then?

 

[mark1616]

I genuinely wonder, out of all the weddings done over the years, how many lenses have exploded, cameras metamorphised into cream doughnuts, batteries melted grips and cards sent themselves to Santa have ever actually happened?

Had my 24-105 go faulty mid wedding in 2010, if I was a single lens guy would have been going home and wishing the bride and groom a good day, as it was I just picked up the backup and kept shooting.

That was the only time I've had a problem so before that I could have said I've always been fine which was true, but I still had back up gear in case and on that day I needed it.

Bring Pro isn't about being paid to shoot, it is the manner in which someone handles themselves and customers.

I never feel too happy that I don't have a direct back up for my 70-200, but I do have an 85mm prime and 120-300mm f2.8 if I need something longer and fast. I'm 6'6" and so can handle that for a while hand held but not ideal that's for sure.

 

[KIPAX]

Originally I was invited as a guest to my friend's wedding. And then they asked if it was okay if I bring my camera along and take some photographs for them

spooky.. I get that a lot

 

[mark1616]

So it is not justification for hiking prices or deterring people from starting out then?

I know this wasn't aimed at me, but I wouldn't shoot my first wedding until I had 2 of everything I needed for the day, just in case. I wasn't going to be responsible for ruining someone's wedding if there was a problem, being paid or not.

Someone shooting something important needs to have the kit with them, they don't have to own it, borrow/rent is fine, but it needs to be there.

 

[fracster]

I've been asked to photograph my friends wedding, and as its my first time I said I'll do it for free!

Do you not think that this initial statement negates the need for a plethora of kit that he ,in all probability, won`t need?

 

[KIPAX]

The OP is going as a guest to the wedding.. he is taking his camera and wants to present them with some decent pics.. He isn't the official photographer hired for the wedding (paid or not)

I think the insurance, double kit and all manner of rsponses are a bit OTT

 

[mark1616]

Do you not think that this initial statement negates the need for a plethora of kit that he ,in all probability, won`t need?

No, because we are not talking about a plethora, but just the basics, 2 bodies, 2 normal lenght zooms, 2 flash guns, nothing there is excessive. If people were suggesting a super wide, fish eye, telephoto, Quadra lighting etc then that would fall into the realms of plethora IMHO.

 

[Mahone]

He`s doing it for free, not really worth going out and spending a fortune on kit. Just do a bit of pre planning and research, enjoy the experience and try and learn as much from it as possible.

It is a great opportunity so don`t let these people put you off.

Make sure you explain your situation to the friend in question. Tell them that you only have 1 camera etc and that you will do your best to get them some cracking shots under the circumstances. No big deal.

 

[big soft moose]

The OP is going as a guest to the wedding.. he is taking his camera and wants to present them with some decent pics.. He isn't the official photographer hired for the wedding (paid or not)

I think the insurance, double kit and all manner of rsponses are a bit OTT

this is the thing - is he just going as a guest , in which case he doesnt need extra kit/insurance and such , but equally he'll have no formal status and no ablity to organise guests so this whole thread is pretty pointless

or is he covering the wedding , but not getting paid, in which case he does need insurance and spare kit because the B&G will expect some shots and may well get arsey if he doesnt deliver

 

[big soft moose]

I genuinely wonder, out of all the weddings done over the years, how many lenses have exploded, cameras metamorphised into cream doughnuts, batteries melted grips and cards sent themselves to Santa have ever actually happened?

I had a flashgun die once - it started sparking and took out the firmware on the camera it was attached to

and i also had a camera just go to err 99 and refuse to come back to life.

it happens to everyone sooner or later- and the more you do the more likely its going to happen at an inoportune moment

 

[mark1616]

It is a great opportunity so don`t let these people put you off.

I don't think people are trying to put the OP off but rather to help ensure that everything goes well, that the OP is protected and the B&G get what they hope for.

My first weddings were not paid but for friends, even so, I made sure all bases were covered with the safe minimum, if I couldn't do it properly I wasn't going to do it at all. This will always be my advice to anyone undertaking something so important. I've heard quite a few posts over the years of people who have done similar and friendships have been messes up..... now, obviously, for all those that have had problems there will be many that went perfectly fine, but still, why risk it?

 

[asphotographymk]

So it is not justification for hiking prices or deterring people from starting out then?

Are you being serious or just trying to get a rise out of people here?

I will not comment on the price comment as i feel you are just after a reaction.

and

We are not talking about putting people off starting out we are talking about them having the very basic kit needed.

 

[asphotographymk]

obviously, for all those that have had problems there will be many that went perfectly fine, but still, why risk it?

This is it. The chances are that everything will go great, the op will hand other some great images and the couple will be very happy. But there is always a chance that it could all go belly up every bit of gear could go bust and the couples expectations will be higher than anticipated.

now thats not to say dont risk it thats saying go into it with all basis covered and do it right.

 

[fracster]

Are you being serious or just trying to get a rise out of people here?

I will not comment on the price comment as i feel you are just after a reaction.

and

We are not talking about putting people off starting out we are talking about them having the very basic kit needed.

But you are, as always, the guy is going as guest at a wedding, a guest who has a camera. Why on Gods earth does he need a back up kit?

I wonder if any other genre of photography needs all this backup of backups?

PS..you dropping a camera cannot be construed as an equipment failure really, more a lack of care,no?

 

[mark1616]

But you are, as always, the guy is going as guest at a wedding, a guest who has a camera. Why on Gods earth does he need a back up kit?

I wonder if any other genre of photography needs all this backup of backups?

PS..you dropping a camera cannot be construed as an equipment failure really, more a lack of care,no?

But they are not going as a guest, they've been asked to shoot it and have said they will do so for free.... or more likely as the wedding gift. So, they are no longer a guest if acting as photographer.

As for other genre, anything paid and that can't be rescheduled without having a negative effect you need at least 2 of everything. Look at the sports photographers on here who work professionally, they won't go to a game with just one body and lens, however, a wildlife tog or landscape shooter who can go into the field again, to capture a similar thing, all be it weather might have changed and something might have migrated, but still, not going to miss the shots needed for the job.

So, shoot as a guest, fine, shooting as photographer, paid or otherwise then take precautions to do the job.... simple!

 

[fracster]

Whilst I agree with some of your comments Mark, if the couple have high expectations, then surely they should hire a professional, competant photographer?

If they have asked the op to photograph the wedding and he has agreed, no monies changing hands, who could they possibly sue if the images are not to the standard they want? The photographer,surely not? Themselves for being too tight?

PS......Not to say the OP is incompetant,just using it as a point.

 

[mark1616]

I'm not really talking about the insurance side, rather the backup kit.

It can be amazing what people expect from photographers, even friends doing a shoot for free. I've seen posts where the friend/tog thought one thing was wanted and did the best they could and then the bride wasn't happy with the outcome. You have to ask who is at fault in this sort of situation and the answer is probably both. For the OP, he needs to be fully aware of what the B&G expect from the day and what will be delivered etc, if not it can a a way to mess up a friendship (depending on the personalities involved, which obviously we know nothing about).

 

[asphotographymk]

But you are, as always, the guy is going as guest at a wedding, a guest who has a camera. Why on Gods earth does he need a back up kit?

Well that is the question as moose said the OP is either acting as the photographer, is going to provide the posed shots, the group shots, the important moments or the OP is a guest with a camera in which case this whole thread is pretty pointless.

PS..you dropping a camera cannot be construed as an equipment failure really, more a lack of care,no?

The failure was the strap which is all part of the equipment in realty. Yes the fault was was own, but it still happened. Even if you trip over, spill a drink, get knocked into what ever the reason these things happen in life. We have all dropped something all made mistakes. There is also a chance that with any device things may just stop working. The cause is not the problem the result is the issue.

 

[asphotographymk]

Whilst I agree with some of your comments Mark, if the couple have high expectations, then surely they should hire a professional, competant photographer?

I couldnt agree more. They should do. Does that mean they always will.. No

If they have asked the op to photograph the wedding and he has agreed, no monies changing hands, who could they possibly sue if the images are not to the standard they want? The photographer,surely not? Themselves for being too tight?

This is not so much a situation when i think the OP would be sued for failure to deliver but lose a friend is more than possible.

While the bride and groom may not see the OP as a professional that does not mean that other people such as guests or the venue wont. And many venues wont even allow someone to act in the capacity of official photographer with out PL cover. For the sake of £30 why not just get it and save the hassle.

Also then if someone gets injured ( yes it sounds silly but these days people will claim all sorts) you can keep the ambulance chasers at bay.

 

[fracster]

As for other genre, anything paid and that can't be rescheduled without having a negative effect you need at least 2 of everything. Look at the sports photographers on here who work professionally, they won't go to a game with just one body and lens, however, a wildlife tog or landscape shooter who can go into the field again, to capture a similar thing, all be it weather might have changed and something might have migrated, but still, not going to miss the shots needed for the job.

Of the few sports photographers I know, none take two 400 F2.8s to a game, for example.Yes, they have two bodies and two differing lenses, but i`d be surprised if they doubled up on the expensive long lenses just in case one failed.

I would also imagine, certainly for wildlife people, that sometimes you get that once in a lifetime opportunity, I know I have, that does not mean I double on everything. I buy decent kit and it works. I suppose the landscape people are the same, dunno about that, I try to avoid doing landscape because i`m crap at it.........

 

[big soft moose]

well with wildlife I know andy rouse usually takes at least two bodies (sometimes more) plus redundancy of lenses etc... if you've paid several grand for a trip[ to the congo or wherever you don't want it to turn into an expensive holiday because you only take one camera and it breaks.

 

[asphotographymk]

Of the few sports photographers I know, none take two 400 F2.8s to a game, for example.Yes, they have two bodies and two differing lenses, but i`d be surprised if they doubled up on the expensive long lenses just in case one failed.

I would also imagine, certainly for wildlife people, that sometimes you get that once in a lifetime opportunity, I know I have, that does not mean I double on everything. I buy decent kit and it works. I suppose the landscape people are the same, dunno about that, I try to avoid doing landscape because i`m crap at it.........

I dont think anyone is saying have 2 of the exact everything. For example i mostly carry an s5pro as my backup body to the d700. My back up is a worst case so for me so long as its good enough to do the job in the very worst case scenario thats great. I am sure many wedding photographers do no have 2 70-200 f2.8s but they will have an alternative that gives good results should the worst happen.

The difference is with wildlife photography/landscape photography and weddings is that if something happens and you lose or miss that one amazing shot who will a) Even be aware of it b) Be affected by it in anyway? The answer is normally just the photographer. I would say that applies to most situations other than very specific commissioned jobs such as the one Pete talks about. And in that case if you have any sense you would take backup.

With weddings it is the clients that suffers and they will also know it. You have messed up there big day and they will blame you.

 

[big soft moose]

But you are, as always, the guy is going as guest at a wedding, a guest who has a camera. Why on Gods earth does he need a back up kit?
?

he doesnt if he's going as a guest ( I usually just take a compact) but he's alledgedly 'covering' his mates wedding which was the point of this thread , and if he's providing an agreed service (paid or unpaid) he needs to be able to cope with contingencies.

as to putting people off I recently bought another 20D so that i'd have 3 DSLRs (not counting the 300D which isnt really good enough) - that cost me £150

(on occasions when higher level kit is needed i usually hire anmd build the cost into the package - but thats not germane to shooting a free wedding for a mate)

the point being that its not going to break the bank to get a second body and lens.

 

[KIPAX]

this is the thing - is he just going as a guest

post #20

Just to clarify
Originally I was invited as a guest to my friend's wedding. And then they asked if it was okay if I bring my camera along and take some photographs for them as they can't afford a photographer. They did say if I can't no worries because we have plenty of disposable cameras everywhere.

I said yes no problem I could do with the practice anyway. They also said our other friend which also has a decent camera could give me a hand and take some photographs with me.

All wanted to do is surprise them and get some really nice looking photographs.

I stand by my post...For people to suggest he needs all manner of backup equipment, insurance and all the other responses is way over the top

 

[fracster]

well with wildlife I know andy rouse usually takes at least two bodies (sometimes more) plus redundancy of lenses etc... if you've paid several grand for a trip[ to the congo or wherever you don't want it to turn into an expensive holiday because you only take one camera and it breaks.

Maybe, but he sure as hell does not have to buy his own kit....

 

[big soft moose]

Maybe, but he sure as hell does not have to buy his own kit....

thats not what he says

but that aside he certainly used to -he's been a wildlife tog longer than he's been famous, if you read the bit in his first book where he first went used a DSLR in anger he's got two eos1vs and they both die from salt water damage forcing him to use the D30 which he's brought along to test

 

[fracster]

thats not what he says

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm........

 

[big soft moose]

post #20
I stand by my post...For people to suggest he needs all manner of backup equipment, insurance and all the other responses is way over the top

alternately post one

I was also going to start photographing more events and subjects like friends an family's kids etc

Any help and advice would be much appreciated

if he's going to start shooting more such events then he needs backup kit , insurance etc

plus he asks for help and advice - he doesnt say 'please pat me on the head and tell me it'll all be fine'

 

[KIPAX]

alternately post one

surely if post 20 starts with "Just to clarify" then that takes thingy over post #1

if he's going to start shooting more such events then he needs backup kit , insurance etc

he mentioned that as an aside.. what he wanted and indeed the subject line states.. is advice on the wedding..

plus he asks for help and advice - he doesnt say 'please pat me on the head and tell me it'll all be fine'

I wasnt doing that... i was pointing out that for a guest at a wedding who wants to take some decent shots..the advice is well OTT

 

[asphotographymk]

I do think the OP has contradicted himself a little here. I mean if he is just a guest then non of this really matters. If the couple are expecting him to deliver some images and he will be taking control in some way of the photography i think he is more than a guest.

 

[leftcurl]

to the OP.... get your camera, get a 70-200, a 50mm and a flashgun. Loads of memory cards and back up batteries and get in amongst 'em.

I'm sure out of 1,000 pics you'll take throughout the course of the day you'll be able to provide the B&G with at least a half decent 50 or so they will be very happy with. Get a few pints down your neck and enjoy the day. I'm sure your friends will be more than happy to help organise people and help you along... at the end of day you'll all be there to enjoy yourselves.

If a pro photographer isn't on the cards, then it obviously isn't a priority to have an all singing all dancing leather bound album sitting on their coffee table.

Enjoy yourself and get stuck in

 

[Richard King]

Thats exactly why I was asking, obviously as an amateur, as I often forget to change light setting, or maybe l
have shutter too slow for movement etc and I know it could come back to bite you
Very easy to get confused when the stress levels are up
So just in this semi hypothetical situation, personally, IF it was me or nothing toggerywise, I'd do it for a mate, but I'd be auto all day and put my trust in old father Nikons ability rather than mine

OK

Here is my honest advice

- what ever you think you need in batteries, multiply it by at least three
- what ever you think you need in compact flash cards - multiply it about three
- you need a good wide angle zoom & a good long zoom. Preferably fairly fast glass too. Once and only once you have these think about primes
- beg borrow steal a second body
- beg borrow steal a second flash gun
- shoot on Aperture prioritory
- fix your ISO to as low as possible
- shoot RAW
- ditch long lists of shots
- find out only the "top ten "must have" shots
- do NOT machine gun
- do stretch your day out, pace yourself
- use a sat nav, know where you are going
- as you are green, scout the venues and take test shots
- try and relax and seek out feelings and emotions
- shooting as a guest is a non-starter make sure you command respect, you are shooting the wedding, you have responsibility, project it

On the last point - that is the most valuable advice. If I am shooting people I know I am not "Richard I had a drink with last week" I am "Richard the professional photographer" The other person, family, friend or otherwise is "My subject." Endof.

 

[Igor]

thanks so much guys. some really good advice and tips given out here!

i cant wait to get stuck in!

oh and by the way the groom is one of my best mates so theres no chance of me getting sued or anything like that.

i did mention to him about some of the points raised here and he said just relax and have fun. he said the main priority is me having a good time and enjoying myself, and to take a few snaps here and there as of when.

i do want to do a good job though


ive done a kids party before and i went completely unprepared. i had no flash etc and it turned out to be a disco. so the room was dark with flashing lights, smoke and black walls and sealing!:bang: Nightmare! all i had was my 60D with my good old tammy lol :bonk:. i just manned up and did the bet i could!

 

[big soft moose]

oh and by the way the groom is one of my best mates so theres no chance of me getting sued or anything like that.

!

sounds like you can probably forgo the business costs insurance - but its still a good idea to have PL both because the venue might expect it , and also because when some freind of the brides mother falls over your camera bag and whacks her head on the floor , the fact that you are best mates with the groom will mean diddly squat to her no win no fee solicitor.

That said given you arent getting paid you may already have PL cover as part of your camera insurance package