Raw files in lightroom

keeweeman

keeweeman

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920
Name
Col
Edit My Images
Yes
Morning all

Quick query, but when using raw files in lightroom i usually import a set of images and then go through and flag the shots i want to develop. Currently if i then want to save the raw files i end up exporting them to original to a different location/subfolder then having to manually delete the original raw files and move the new edited ones to where i want them to live on my pc. This just doesn't seem right in terms of a process as it strikes me as incredibly cumbersome and that there should be (and i am assuming IS) a way for me to basically save the raws in their original location deleting the ones set as discarded in the process.

Any help would be appreciated on this!

Col
 
keeweeman said:
This just doesn't seem right in terms of a process as it strikes me as incredibly cumbersome and that there should be (and i am assuming IS) a way for me to basically save the raws in their original location deleting the ones set as discarded in the process.
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Files and folders management — creating, deleting, moving —
should be intuitive and simple from within the converter so to
ease your chosen workflow… which is better performed if not
working in catalogue but in sessions mode IME.
 
Save all the RAW files to the folder you will store them in.
Go through them however you like and hit the 'x' key on the keyboard to set as rejected for the ones you don't want to keep.
Hit 'ctrl' and 'backspace' which will delete the photos marked rejected.

Am I missing something?
 
Why do that workflow?
I import raw images to a raw folder, using import and copy, the current years on a SSD drive for performance. Previous tears are moved off to another disk (a large raid set).

So for example I import to E:\raw\2018 folder, Lightroom imports to subfolders dated by image taken. All other raw images are on F:\Raw organised by year, so F:\Raw\2017, F:\Raw\2016 etc
I don't move the raw files around once they are in the folder apart from once a year moving from SSD to other, slower disk.

First passthrough in the library function is to flag and delete the obvious failed images, out of focus, shots of the floor etc. Second pass through is to rate the images using a 1 star for those I think I want to work on further.
Then into the develop module, sort by 1 star and greater and again work through the images, if needed regrade the star rating. Rate final images, which if required to export are exported to a separate folder for finished images - which I have a file structure matching my collections under lightroom.

There should be no need to move raw images around once imported
 
As above, import them to where you want them to 'live' on your PC and delete the ones you don't want by flagging them, struggling to see the issue here unless I'm reading it incorrectly. You are talking of 'original' and 'new edited' RAW files here, you do understand that LR doesn't produce a new file (unless exported) it just saves your development recipe, for want of a better word, alongside the original RAW file.
 
keeweeman said:
Currently if i then want to save the raw files
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What do you mean by save? They're on your hard drive already, which means they already are saved. Byker's workflow is the right way to go. Personally as my SSD is only small I just keep the raws from my latest shoot on there and then move them to a big external hdd after.

The important thing when doing this is to move the files using Lightroom's Folders panel, NOT your OS' file manager, otherwise LR will lose track of them.
 
Craigus said:
Save all the RAW files to the folder you will store them in.
Go through them however you like and hit the 'x' key on the keyboard to set as rejected for the ones you don't want to keep.
Hit 'ctrl' and 'backspace' which will delete the photos marked rejected.

Am I missing something?
Click to expand...

I didn't know about the ctrl backspace bit thanks. In terms of saving the raw files so they produce their own save file how would i do that since i am assuming (probably incorrectly) that rather than saving any edited information as a separate file like if i were working in camera raw that lightroom just stores it in the catalogue information? The reason for asking is i sometimes use another machine during lunch breaks in work etc just to mess about with edits so it is useful to be able to access individual files and copy them to my one drive/email them to myself etc just for that purpose.

@Byker28i workflow wise it is just personal preference, it's actually quite a simple way i do things really because i just copy the files from the memory card to where i want to store them, then import them into lightroom and go through and cull them. I don't bother with the rating side of it simply because i tend to be pretty strict with the cull and as such it doesn't normally leave hundreds of shots from any given day to go through (unless it is a wedding/holiday in which case i will be going through them all regardless). Once i have edited them i then export to jpeg to a separate folder from the raws which also includes watermarking etc if i deem it necessary, and up until now i have then exported the raw files as originals in order to generate a culled set of edited raw files and that is the bit i think i am doing something wrong with since it just feels like a counter intuitive way of doing things given the nature of the software involved
 
Northaway said:
What do you mean by save? They're on your hard drive already, which means they already are saved. Byker's workflow is the right way to go. Personally as my SSD is only small I just keep the raws from my latest shoot on there and then move them to a big external hdd after.

The important thing when doing this is to move the files using Lightroom's Folders panel, NOT your OS' file manager, otherwise LR will lose track of them.
Click to expand...

By save i mean save the edited versions which when using camera raw would generate a small second file containing the edits.
 
JackBell said:
As above, import them to where you want them to 'live' on your PC and delete the ones you don't want by flagging them, struggling to see the issue here unless I'm reading it incorrectly. You are talking of 'original' and 'new edited' RAW files here, you do understand that LR doesn't produce a new file (unless exported) it just saves your development recipe, for want of a better word, alongside the original RAW file.
Click to expand...

Ok that answers my question about the additional edit file then, so basically if that is the case and your lightroom catalogue corrupts you lose all of your edits? So the next question i suppose should be how do you backup the catalogue file to a separate location just in case?

Thanks for the help folks, it is appreciated
 
I just copy the catalogue file itself to a couple of different drives, and once a month or so upload a copy to the cloud.
 
keeweeman said:
and up until now i have then exported the raw files as originals in order to generate a culled set of edited raw files and that is the bit i think i am doing something wrong with since it just feels like a counter intuitive way of doing things given the nature of the software involved
Click to expand...
No need, what you have described is a very convoluted way of working in LR.... Simply use collections to organise your 'culled' set. I would suggest reading and watching some tutorials on LR, there are plenty on YouTube and a number of worthwhile books are available, I enjoy Scott Kelby's writings, others will also have different recommendations.

keeweeman said:
By save i mean save the edited versions which when using camera raw would generate a small second file containing the edits.
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You can get LR to create sidecar files just the same as ACR. It is still just a set of instructions.

keeweeman said:
so basically if that is the case and your lightroom catalogue corrupts you lose all of your edits? So the next question i suppose should be how do you backup the catalogue file to a separate location just in case?
Click to expand...

All within Lightroom, it should prompt you to back your catalogue up on a regular basis (you decide) and you can choose your location for the backup.
 
I don't understand why you'd copy them to your drive and then open Lightroom to import them? Lightroom will do both of these things in one go, and then generate previews etc.

My workflow is open Lightroom, insert SD card into laptop. Lightroom will then save the RAW files to Pictures/Year/Date on my HDD. As part of this process I also create a collection of all the images, usually named by date and the event. These collections are all grouped into collection sets numbered by year. I tell Lightroom to generate Standard and Smart Previews as well, and only then do I click Import.

Lightroom will then copy the files from your SD card to the HDD, import the files to your catalog, add them to a collection and generate the necessary previews. This can take a while for a lot of images but makes subsequent editing much faster.

Once this is all done I open the collection I created on import, and go through my images one by one, culling and editing as one process. I use the X key to flag rejected images. Once I'm done, It's simply a case of filtering the collection by the Rejected attribute and delete the files I don't want to keep. No need to export a second set of RAW files or anything like that.

EDIT I also apply a develop preset at the import stage, just to give myself a starting point to work from
 
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keeweeman said:
I delete the ones that aren't worth keeping/if i have taken the same shot a few times depending on light etc and then picked the best one. No point keeping the same shot 5 times as that is just a waste of storage regardless of how cheap hard drives are now.
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Apologies, misread it, I thought you said you produce your JPGs from the RAWs and then delete the latter!

In the interests of discussion my workflow is import RAW to my Mac HDD (4TB) with the import module, adding in keywords & IPTC info, I then have a Chronosync module running which copies the newly added RAWs to two external HDDs. I also used to upload to Backblaze, but figured 3 locations should be enough, unless the house sets on fire - then I'm screwed, with no off-site storage!
 
keeweeman said:
By save i mean save the edited versions which when using camera raw would generate a small second file containing the edits.
Click to expand...

Lightrooms a full workflow tool, not an editing tool. I think you're adding work and it sounds like you just started using it without running through the introduction tutorials which makes everything obvious. No problem, we probably all did the same but once you realise the workflow it's so quick and easy.

It's worth watching this quick tutorials - https://helpx.adobe.com/uk/lightroom/tutorials.html
 
keeweeman said:
i just copy the files from the memory card to where i want to store them, then import them into lightroom and go through and cull them.
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Waste of time. Connect the memory card either direct from camera or I use a card reader. Use lightroom with the copy import to copy the images from the memory card to the required folder. Lightroom will order them by date, very handy for searching at a later tiem.


keeweeman said:
I don't bother with the rating side of it simply because i tend to be pretty strict with the cull and as such it doesn't normally leave hundreds of shots from any given day to go through (unless it is a wedding/holiday in which case i will be going through them all regardless).
Click to expand...

Worth thinking about using the rating system, certainly in a passthough/triage way to sort the ones you want to spend time on, then on completion you can rate them. There's always ones ok to tell a story, but ones that are extra special. It's a good way to sort them. Again if you need a portfolio later, it's a great way to find your best images on a sort
 
Cheers guys, appreciate the advice. In terms of my experience its only really the last 12 months or so i have shifted over to lightroom rather than using camera raw and while i have now gotten to grips with the editing side of things i have evidently overlooked some of the basics with the library.
In terms of using lightroom to import the photos straight from the card i have to be honest as say for how i work that is less likely to be something i adopt, i have a filing structure i use and am more than happy with and i don't find restrictive at all unless lightroom will let me replicate it exactly of course. I'll have a mess about with it over the weekend anyways and see how i get on, i'm not being flippant about what it is capable of as my first impression of it was that it was more useful as a database/catalogue than an editing tool which at the time i just didn't need/want but now that i am using it most of the time i might as well see which bits are worth adopting more.
 
keeweeman said:
so basically if that is the case and your lightroom catalogue corrupts you lose all of your edits? So the next question i suppose should be how do you backup the catalogue file to a separate location just in case?
Click to expand...

If my lightroom catalogue gets corrupted I use one of my backup copies. All of my RAWs are imported via lightroom to an external hard drive. Everything on that working hard drive (RAWs and LR catalogue) gets automatically backed up to an on-site RAID hard drive and an off-site portable hard drive.

I don’t touch the hard drive where the RAWs and LR catalogue is saved, everything is done through Lightroom. I export jpegs as I need them depending on their use. I’m going to look up if there is an automated way to export jpegs this using collections.
 
Lightroom will put files where you want them on import. If you show it where you want the files to go, it will put them there just like if had copied the files from card to specific folder. On import you can tell it to copy files to multiple places too, which is handy if you backup to an external HD as you import to your internal and external HDs at the same time. You can generate different types of preview at the same time depending if you want a thumbnail or a Smart preview etc. You can apply processing on import and also keyword on import. The downside is the more you do the longer it takes. ;-)

Because I only use Lightroom for specific types subject, I download from camera/card to the folder I want. Then at a later date when I have the time I import the files into a collection in LR, applying lens correction, chromatic aberration removal and apply homemade colorchecker passport preset for the camera used, and sometimes a basic edit on import. Sometimes I will keyword at the same time too. I'm very lax with keywording though. :-( I also generate Smart Previews so I don't have to wait to generate previews when going from image to image.

I've heard of some Pro Photographers who come back from a shoot, download the files into the computer, and then let LR import the images over night. No time wasted waiting for the program to get through the files, which could number thousands. Anything needed straight away can be opened in Bridge and Camera Raw.

There are many different ways of doing it all, you just have to find what is best for you. :)
 
J
redhed17 said:
On import you can tell it to copy files to multiple places too, which is handy if you backup to an external HD as you import to your internal and external HDs at the same time.
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I’ve never liked this function as a backup because I import to lightroom then cull the dross. The problem with the backup images is you would need to duplicate that culling manually. I find using the back up software Carbon Copy Cloner (Mac only) is easier as it duplicates the backup on the working drive. Any files that change or are missing on the next backup are saved in the safety net folder for 3 months before CCC deleteds them permanently.

I need to get better using keywords and collections. I’ve been using lightroom around 4-5 years. I’m planning to go through and delete left over images from years ago that I didn’t edit even though I thought I would. One of the only good things I did at first was setting up my lightroom import file structure, I don’t think I would have kept up with the same structure manually and would be in a mess now. The thing I’ve worked out is what works for me won’t work for others or the other way around.

Can I ask does anyone change the file names on import? I’ve been thinking if I should as every 10,000 images the same file name is used again and this could potentially cause an issue in the future.
 
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rob-nikon said:
Can I ask does anyone change the file names on import? I’ve been thinking if I should as every 10,000 images the same file name is used again and this could potentially cause an issue in the future.
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I change to the event name but suffix the original file number, helps a little in identifying shots from the pure camera filename.
 
Just repeating all what was said before really.

After import check your file:
- for the rubbish ones, hit X for reject then when your done go in photo>delete rejected photo it was suggested ctrl backspace do the same but if you don't remember it is so easy to find it up there in the menu
- for the one you want to process or look more closely, hit P for pick, then when your done with picking just above the strip you have flitler>flagged and only your selected picture will apply
Then keep all the rest!
-once your done and if you have 5x the same photo but don't need to keep them all go again through them and hit X on all the mutliple you want to delete.

You can do a lot more with key word, stars, colours,... but i don't usually bother i keep it simple flag or reject...
 
Gogster said:
I change to the event name but suffix the original file number, helps a little in identifying shots from the pure camera filename.
Click to expand...
I’ve thought of using the date-file name option. With wildlife I often visit the same locations so event name-file name probably wouldn’t work for me but it’s good to know people do change the file name on import.
 
rob-nikon said:
J
Can I ask does anyone change the file names on import? I’ve been thinking if I should as every 10,000 images the same file name is used again and this could potentially cause an issue in the future.
Click to expand...

I do not at the import stage, but i do at the export stage and the export always include the original number and date so it is easy to find from which exact picture it was.
 
Lemaildetom said:
Just repeating all what was said before really.

After import check your file:
- for the rubbish ones, hit X for reject then when your done go in photo>delete rejected photo it was suggested ctrl backspace do the same but if you don't remember it is so easy to find it up there in the menu
- for the one you want to process or look more closely, hit P for pick, then when your done with picking just above the strip you have flitler>flagged and only your selected picture will apply
Then keep all the rest!
-once your done and if you have 5x the same photo but don't need to keep them all go again through them and hit X on all the mutliple you want to delete.

You can do a lot more with key word, stars, colours,... but i don't usually bother i keep it simple flag or reject...
Click to expand...

A good tip for Pick/Reject culling is to enable Caps Lock, which sets Lightroom to auto advance to the next photo when you pick or reject. You can really rattle through a shoot that way.
 
I don't change the file names. Every time I roll past 9999 in camera I change a letter or number in sequence. When I got the D500 I started with D5A, then D5B etc. Previous cameras have had different letter combinations so hopefully no duplicates. ;-)

I do give the images names when I put them online to show or try sell them. It is nicer to have Venice Twilight than D5B2439. ;-)
 
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