RE: Ring flash advice, some results

Trev4

Trev4

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Trev
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After struggling with light taking macros, I decided to buy a ring flash. I have read here that the Marumi is a good alternative to the much more expensive Canon or other models. I have managed to buy an "as new" second hand one. Hopefully this will give me a good idea about ring flashes, and if in time whether I need to buy a better model.
Has anyone used these flash units and what settings or advice would you recommend please.
The pictures I took were with a Canon 100mm f2.8 macro, the pictures were posted on this thread.
My macro pictures

Also, these are suggested for some portraits, would you suggest this for baby shots or would the actual flash be too stark for a baby as opposed to a normal off camera flash bounced off the ceiling

As you can see, I am very much in the learning stage and welcome any help I can get.

Thanks for looking :thumbs:
Trev
 
Your Marumi ring flash will be fine. More expensive models really only give you more convenience, are better made etc; the light is the same.

Ring flash gives you good light where you want it, which is difficult with macro. They are also bright enough to let you use high f/numbers, which you need to get a bit more depth of field. The short duration of the flash freezes camera shake, which is also a problem with macro.

Ring flash gives a particular kind of light when used for portraiture. I would have thought it more suitable for fashion that babies, but it can hardly be worse than the camera's built-in flash. Try them both and see how you get on.

If you can get a separate flash unit with a decent amount of power, I think you might find it good for baby pics. Bounce it off the ceiling, or try it with a diffuser like a StoFen maybe. There are lots of options but basically what you are trying to do is soften the light by spreading it over a wider area.
 
HoppyUK said:
Your Marumi ring flash will be fine. More expensive models really only give you more convenience, are better made etc; the light is the same.

Ring flash gives you good light where you want it, which is difficult with macro. They are also bright enough to let you use high f/numbers, which you need to get a bit more depth of field. The short duration of the flash freezes camera shake, which is also a problem with macro.

Ring flash gives a particular kind of light when used for portraiture. I would have thought it more suitable for fashion that babies, but it can hardly be worse than the camera's built-in flash. Try them both and see how you get on.

If you can get a separate flash unit with a decent amount of power, I think you might find it good for baby pics. Bounce it off the ceiling, or try it with a diffuser like a StoFen maybe. There are lots of options but basically what you are trying to do is soften the light by spreading it over a wider area.
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Thank you HoppyUK. With regard to portraits, I dont do a lot apart from occasional family ones (but there is a grandchild on the way :)), and for these I have used a Nissin Di622 with very reasonable results, so as you advise I will stick with that I think, maybe try to ring flash but....

The main reason for buying it was macro work, and from what you say it will do the job well. So far for macro work I have generally used from f2.8 to f5.6 on AV which as you say does give a narrow D o F but gives more light (typical are the ones on the link I included). Using AV leaves the timing to the camera to decide. Would you agree with doing this or would it be better to use Manual and set my own aperture and time. When you say use a larger number, do you have a favoured aperture or is it really trial and error.
Thanks again
Trev
 
Trev4 said:
Thank you HoppyUK. With regard to portraits, I dont do a lot apart from occasional family ones (but there is a grandchild on the way :)), and for these I have used a Nissin Di622 with very reasonable results, so as you advise I will stick with that I think, maybe try to ring flash but....

The main reason for buying it was macro work, and from what you say it will do the job well. So far for macro work I have generally used from f2.8 to f5.6 on AV which as you say does give a narrow D o F but gives more light (typical are the ones on the link I included). Using AV leaves the timing to the camera to decide. Would you agree with doing this or would it be better to use Manual and set my own aperture and time. When you say use a larger number, do you have a favoured aperture or is it really trial and error.
Thanks again
Trev[/QUO

I always use manual for macro - f11-f16 and a shutter speed of around 1/160 - 1/200 your flash should automatically give the right amount of light but if not switch to manual and adjust the power to suit.
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I always use manual for macro - f11-f16 and a shutter speed of around 1/160 - 1/200 your flash should automatically give the right amount of light but if not switch to manual and adjust the power to suit.[/QUOTE]

Thanks Dogfish_magnet, I'll give that a try, its a good starting point.
I checked out your site and Flickr, you have some very good pictures, I especially liked the macros, well done on them.
Trev
 
Trev4 said:
Thank you HoppyUK. With regard to portraits, I dont do a lot apart from occasional family ones (but there is a grandchild on the way :)), and for these I have used a Nissin Di622 with very reasonable results, so as you advise I will stick with that I think, maybe try to ring flash but....

The main reason for buying it was macro work, and from what you say it will do the job well. So far for macro work I have generally used from f2.8 to f5.6 on AV which as you say does give a narrow D o F but gives more light (typical are the ones on the link I included). Using AV leaves the timing to the camera to decide. Would you agree with doing this or would it be better to use Manual and set my own aperture and time. When you say use a larger number, do you have a favoured aperture or is it really trial and error.
Thanks again
Trev
Click to expand...

You're welcome Trev :) I think the Marumi links up with the camera's E-TTL auto metering? I hope so, as it will be a nightmare without!

Ring flash gives you nice light for macro, as it's so close. It gives you enough light for high f/numbers, pretty much whatever you like. And it freezes movement, so you can move about without a tripod. It's very liberating.

I use it just roaming about, usually at f/8-11 with x-sync shutter of course (1/250sec?). Lens on manual focus and adjust fine focus by moving very gently back and forth, press the release when the sharpness falls where you want it. Brilliant results, and so easy :) Watch out for diffraction at small apertures like f/22 as it really takes the edge off sharpness.

That's basically it. You can fiddle with the light by taping over one side, or try slow-sync shutter speeds to get some ambient light to brighten the background (use Av mode - see handbook). That kind of thing. Macro is a whole new kind of photography which I only dabble in TBH. There must be loads more stuff on it if you google, or ask specific questions on here, but I would just get out and get on with it and see how you get on. I think you'll be thrilled with what you can do with that Marumi.
 
I use it just roaming about, usually at f/8-11 with x-sync shutter of course (1/250sec?). Lens on manual focus and adjust fine focus by moving very gently back and forth, press the release when the sharpness falls where you want it. Brilliant results, and so easy :) Watch out for diffraction at small apertures like f/22 as it really takes the edge off sharpness.


Some good advice there HoppyUK, thank you. I am expecting delivery of the flash tomorrow so havent been able to try it yet of course. It does conform that it uses E-TTL.

At the risk of showing my ignorance, I have tried to look up the x-sync shutter you refer to but couldnt find a reference to it in the handbook. Can I ask what this is please or could it be known by another name in the hanbook, or does it just refer to the 250th speed.

My interest is nature, I have had a lot of help from CT with telephoto work, he even encouraged me to buy a 100-400L and have not looked back from that decision. My other interest thats developing is macro, again, nature based. Roaming about using this flash sounds right up my street and I'm looking forward to it.

Thanks again
Trev
 
i looked at the marumi before getting the sigma version.
the marumi does not have the facility to alter the output of the tubes on either side so to create some shadow detail. this is a nice thing to have as without your macro images can look a little flat. i suspect you could mimic this back diffusing the tubes with differing thickness diffusers. use milk bottle plastic and some velcro.
also some people do not like the black background you can get in some images......some say its a good way to spot a "newbie", i personally love the effect. i am experimenting with having a slave on another bracket to give background fill. hope some of this helps, sorry for the grammar, i am in a rush at the minute
 
x-sync - page 114 and top of page 206 ;) It's 1/250sec on a 50D and is set automatically when the flash is switched on.

You have a focal plane shutter, like all DSLRs, and flash is only possible at shutter speeds of 1/250sec and longer. You can also get the longer speeds either by using Av, or manual, but even if you could set higher speeds, you would only get half a picture, or even just a tiny strip. Google 'focal plane shutter' and you'll soon see what's going on.

If you're a macro fan and have never used a ring flash, you are going to be flitting about the garden tomorrow just like those butterflies you're chasing. But with a big grin :D

Yeah, CT is da man.
 
animal168 said:
i looked at the marumi before getting the sigma version.
the marumi does not have the facility to alter the output of the tubes on either side so to create some shadow detail. this is a nice thing to have as without your macro images can look a little flat. i suspect you could mimic this back diffusing the tubes with differing thickness diffusers. use milk bottle plastic and some velcro.
also some people do not like the black background you can get in some images......some say its a good way to spot a "newbie", i personally love the effect. i am experimenting with having a slave on another bracket to give background fill. hope some of this helps, sorry for the grammar, i am in a rush at the minute
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Cheers Dave, that makes sense. The Marumi was my choice based on features (limited as they are on this model) and price. At worst, if I get on well with it I can sell it and upgrade, this one will initially give me some experience and allow me to experiment and learn (would never have thought of milk bottle plastic and velcro, good idea).
I would be interested to know how you get on with the background lighting though.
Trev
 
HoppyUK said:
x-sync - page 114 and top of page 206 ;) It's 1/250sec on a 50D and is set automatically when the flash is switched on.

You have a focal plane shutter, like all DSLRs, and flash is only possible at shutter speeds of 1/250sec and longer. You can also get the longer speeds either by using Av, or manual, but even if you could set higher speeds, you would only get half a picture, or even just a tiny strip. Google 'focal plane shutter' and you'll soon see what's going on.

If you're a macro fan and have never used a ring flash, you are going to be flitting about the garden tomorrow just like those butterflies you're chasing. But with a big grin :D

Yeah, CT is da man.
Click to expand...

Thats great HoppyUK, I've found it now, thanks for the page no's. and the explanation. :thumbs:
I will make a promise - tomorrow you might see a butterfly shot (with luck), but I wont post any cheesy grins :D lol
Trev
 
I've got a Canon 100mm and Marumi ring flash. Set to manual F11 and 1/250 shutter. Try sticking the lens on manual focus and moving the camera to get focus. Flash will sort itself out. As mentioned above, you can diffuse the ring flash on either side to alter the light balance but tbh, it'll be a while until you feel the need to do that.

I've only just started macro myself and having the flash is awesome :)
 
InkZ said:
I've got a Canon 100mm and Marumi ring flash. Set to manual F11 and 1/250 shutter. Try sticking the lens on manual focus and moving the camera to get focus. Flash will sort itself out. As mentioned above, you can diffuse the ring flash on either side to alter the light balance but tbh, it'll be a while until you feel the need to do that.

I've only just started macro myself and having the flash is awesome :)
Click to expand...

Thanks InkZ
Am definitely looking forward to playing with my new toy now after reading all the help offerd on here.
I try to use 100/200 ISO where possible and light permits, as your using virtually the same set up as me, what do you find works well with these settings?
Trev
 
If you start off with f/11, 1/250sec, ISO100, you are guaranteed a really sharp main subject with reasonable depth of field, and great image quality. But you are working the flash quite hard and it will be much brighter than the ambient light (which is why you're using it of course) so your backgrounds will probably be dark as the flash falls away very rapidly with distance behind the subject.

The only way to lighten it is to get the flash light and the ambient light levels closer. You can do this by adding a second flash for the background (difficult) or by reducing the flash output and letting ambient light fill the background. You do this by increasing the ISO, using a longer shutter speed, and by using a lower f/number.

So alternative settings might be f/8 (if that's enough for depth of field), 1/60sec, ISO400. That is a combined increase of five stops and if it's a bright day, it will be getting close to ambient levels which will brighten the background a lot.

But then you run into problems with longer shutter speed, such as subject movement or more likely camera shake, and this will introduce background blurring and ghosting. A tripod will help, but then you're back to square one so you just have to juggle the settings for the best compromise, bearing in mind that the ultimate solution will only be found with a second flash lighting the background.

It's never easy, is it! But see how you get on. Be sure to post a link here for any pics :thumbs:
 
It's never easy, is it! But see how you get on. Be sure to post a link here for any pics :thumbs:

Again, thank you HoppyUK for so much info, I have plenty to go on with, and some excelent starting points thanks to the advice given here, I am looking forward to trying it out. I need to talk nicely to the subjects and get them to pose, but thats another thread :thinking:

As soon as I get something approaching respectable, I will post it for your opinions.
Trev
 
I added a few pics to this link but when it was uploaded it failed to appear on the forum. I am adding this comment to see if it appears this time.
Cheers guys
Trev :thumbs:
 
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