Recommend me a camera for snorkelling

StewartR

StewartR

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I'm off next month to do a serious amount of snorkelling (and possibly shallow diving) and I want to be able to take photos underwater.

I'm planning on getting some sort of P&S with a rigid housing. Since my DSLRs are Canons, my preference would be for a Canon because a lot of the basic menu structure, terminology, etc will be the same.

Budget - As much as needed to get the job done, but preferably no more.

Any suggestions? Any key features I should be looking out for (eg how wide angle, how much zoom, etc)?
 
StewartR said:
I'm off next month to do a serious amount of snorkelling (and possibly shallow diving) and I want to be able to take photos underwater.

I'm planning on getting some sort of P&S with a rigid housing. Since my DSLRs are Canons, my preference would be for a Canon because a lot of the basic menu structure, terminology, etc will be the same.

Budget - As much as needed to get the job done, but preferably no more.

Any suggestions? Any key features I should be looking out for (eg how wide angle, how much zoom, etc)?
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Hi Stewart,

The key is lighting, lighting and more lighting especially for diving at any depth. If you're only snorkelling you may well get high contrast shadows from waves at the surface too. An extrnal strobe, even on a P & S makes the world of difference.

With zooms, I'd say there is no point being over 50mm - you need to get close to your subject, remember that water is like placing a mid blue grad over your lens that will add +0.3 of a stop of effect for every two meters, (horizontal or depth) away from your light source - so long zooms are a waste of time. Water has a magnifying affect as well.

You need to get the light away from the body - even in the clearest water there is a degree of suspended matter that your eyes will process out which will reflect a flash.

Cheers

Hugh
 
swag72 said:
Why not get underwater housing for your DSLR? You could probably sell it on your return - Or hire it out - and not lose much money
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they're very complicated, take a lot of maintenance, cost as much as a DSLR, and only fit one body/lens combination though - not the best for hireing it out. Resale is a bit dodgy - not many divers trust kit that needs to stay waterproof if they've not looked after it themselves
 
Why not get a disposable underwater camera,thats what i did a few years ago when i went to egypt.
Very cheap,no worries that way.:D:thumbs:
 
swag72 said:
Why not get underwater housing for your DSLR? You could probably sell it on your return - Or hire it out - and not lose much money
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boyfalldown said:
they're very complicated, take a lot of maintenance, cost as much as a DSLR, and only fit one body/lens combination though - not the best for hireing it out. Resale is a bit dodgy - not many divers trust kit that needs to stay waterproof if they've not looked after it themselves
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Absolutely. My thinking exactly.
 
jockwav said:
Why not get a disposable underwater camera,thats what i did a few years ago when i went to egypt.
Very cheap,no worries that way.:D:thumbs:
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Because I want to take LOADS of photos. And I don't want to have to faff around with film. Been there, done that, no thanks.
 
boyfalldown said:
With zooms, I'd say there is no point being over 50mm - you need to get close to your subject, remember that water is like placing a mid blue grad over your lens that will add +0.3 of a stop of effect for every two meters, (horizontal or depth) away from your light source - so long zooms are a waste of time. Water has a magnifying affect as well.
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Cheers Hugh. Exactly the sort of advice I was after. So I'll look for a P&S that goes as wide as possible (28mm equivalent? 24mm?) and not bother baout the long end.

boyfalldown said:
The key is lighting, lighting and more lighting especially for diving at any depth. If you're only snorkelling you may well get high contrast shadows from waves at the surface too. An extrnal strobe, even on a P & S makes the world of difference.

You need to get the light away from the body - even in the clearest water there is a degree of suspended matter that your eyes will process out which will reflect a flash.
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OK, point taken. How do I do that and what will it cost?
 
I am looking into the same thing myself at the moment. Panasonic seem to do some really great waterproof cases for their TZ range that go down to 40m!!!

Having read reviews on waterproof compact cameras on DPreview most of them dont appear to be worth the cash.

Depending on your budget a Panasonic TZ7 (great range 24-300mm!!!!) and a waterproof housing could be a good option. http://www.panasonic.co.uk/html/en_GB/Products/LUMIX+Digital+Cameras/Super+Zoom/DMC-TZ7/Overview/2032049/index.html Housing:http://www.bristolcameras.co.uk/p-panasonic-dmw-mctz7-underwater-housing-for-lumix-tz6-tz7.htm

My friend has the TZ7 and it does appear a great all round compact camera.

I'm planning to do this myself for when I go to the maldives later this year but I may get an earlier model.
 
StewartR said:
OK, point taken. How do I do that and what will it cost?
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On a P & S the best way of doing it would be a small extrernal strobe in a waterproof housing on a braket - imagine an undewater version of a mietz braacket. The simplest ones have no ttl functionality and aren't brand specific. They've also only got the classic low, medium and cook settings. You normally trigger them as an optional slave from your onboard flash, but use a fibre optic cable from the outside of the housing over your onboard, to the sensor on the strobe.

If you'll pay for RMSD I've one of these setups you're welcome to borrow and fit to whatever camera you choose, else ebay is a good source where they go for around £125.

One thing I forgot to mention - although I'm sure you will anyway shoot RAW, WB does not cope well underrwater and you will want to adjust in PP

Hugh
 
Just a thought but you might want to consider an underwater bag for your SLR?

I went to The Maldives recently and purchased a EWA Marine bag. They're a fraction of the cost of a hard housing but you can still use your SLR!

I was really happy with the results too. The bag is a bit fiddly to use (and it's incredibly scary when you first dump your SLR in the sea in what is basically a glorified zip-lock bag!) but for the price, I thought it was excellent.

I found that with my D80 in Aperture priority, in the EWA Marine bag, with a 60mm Macro attached I could photograph all of the amazing tropical fish pretty well!

Just something else to think about perhaps?
 
I've got an Olympus mju700SW that proved itself NOT to be as waterproof as it should be and is now retired, drowned! I've replaced it with a Canon D10 which is much the same in terms of specs but (for above water shots) gives much nicer pictures. Can't comment on how waterproof it is yet - I will be able to some time in early June, when I'll be somewhere warm enough for me to bare myself and enter the water.

On the Oly, I only ever opened any of the doors ater following their instructions on rinsing and drying and I always inspected the seals as best I could to avoid getting hair or sand/dust in them. It was only ever used while snorkelling and my ears hurt if I go much more than 10' down - nowhere near the quoted 10 metres. Hoping that the Canon will be better and that the underwater images are as much better than the above water ones.
 
SummerSound said:
I went to The Maldives recently and purchased a EWA Marine bag. They're a fraction of the cost of a hard housing but you can still use your SLR!

Just something else to think about perhaps?
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Thanks for the suggestion, Tom. I'm not terribly enamoured with the idea because (a) the LiveView on my 40D isn't the world's most sophisticated; (b) an EWA bag to fit over, say, a 10-22 or 17-55 lens will cost over £300 which is more than the cost of a P&S; and (c) I still don't fancy having the bulk of a DSLR with me in the water. But I'll look at them when I go to the underwater camera shop.
 
boyfalldown said:
One thing I forgot to mention - although I'm sure you will anyway shoot RAW, WB does not cope well underrwater and you will want to adjust in PP
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Ooh. How important is this, really? I mean, most small P&Ss don't do RAW, do they? And can't I tweak the WB in Lightroom afterwards? (Yes, I know RAW gives me more flexibility - but do I really need it?)

EDIT: I don't think there are any P&S cameras which can shoot RAW and which have underwater housings available for them. Are there?
 
ruvor said:
G11 + waterproof housing. Great combo, well worth checking out. Housing is much cheaper than most SLR ones.
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OK, good point. I had subconsciously excluded the G-series cameras from consideration, because I was hoping not to have to spend that much. A G11 plus housing won't give me any change from £600 ... ouch!

Any other alternatives?
 
I have a canon d10 which I used on holiday in Thailand last year.

It performed really well both in and out of water.

It also came in useful this year when i went sledging as I did not have to worry about the snow either.
 
StewartR said:
Ooh. How important is this, really? I mean, most small P&Ss don't do RAW, do they? And can't I tweak the WB in Lightroom afterwards? (Yes, I know RAW gives me more flexibility - but do I really need it?)

EDIT: I don't think there are any P&S cameras which can shoot RAW and which have underwater housings available for them. Are there?
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I'm not sure whats available TBH. It is critical to be able to set your white balance manually though, otherwise everything shall be blue. Cameras underwater have some really good articles about this

http://www.camerasunderwater.info/articles/colours.html

Cheers

Hugh
 
Oh gosh, this is getting difficult. If I try to summarise my options, can anyone tell me if I've missed anything important?

(1) 40D DSLR with rigid housing
Non-starter. I DON'T want a big DSLR housing.

(2) 40D DSLR with flexible housing
Cost: a bit over £300 for ewa-marine U-AXP100
Pros: DSLR flexibility and control
Cons: first-gen LiveView not really adequate; bulky; scary putting DSLR in a bag!

(3) G11 plus rigid housing
Cost: £620ish (camera £420ish, housing £200)
Pros: ticks all the boxes - 28-140mm f/2.8 lens, full manual control, RAW output
Cons: cost

(4) S90 plus rigid housing
Cost: £520ish (camera £320ish, housing £200)
Pros: also ticks all the boxes, I think - 28-105mm f/2.0 lens, full manual control, RAW output
Cons: still more than I was hoping to pay

(5) Lower-spec P&S plus rigid housing
Cost: £350-£450 depending on model chosen (camera £150-£250, housing £200)
Pros: cheaper; small; could be as wide as 24mm if I go for the IXUS 200 IS
Cons: no RAW output; maybe no manual WB control

(6) D10 waterproof P&S
Cost: £250ish
Pros: by far the cheapest P&S option
Cons: no RAW output; not so wide (35-105mm f/2.8 lens); only rated to 10m depth


Hmm. The more I think about it, the more I like the look of the D10. It's MUCH cheaper than any other P&S option, which is important to me because this is just a holiday thing, not a major activity. I don't need a housing rated to 40m or 60m if I'm only snorkelling. It doesn't do RAW, but I hope that the combination of manual WB control (which it has), an external light source (Hugh, check your PMs!) and the post-processing capabilities of Lightroom (which I have) would be enough to get some half-decent results.

Thoughts?
 
Apart from the Canon and the Oly waterproof options, I think there's also a Pentax and a Fuji. Have a feeling that Panasonic do a waterproof video cam as well. Not sure what it's still facility is like but might be worth a look.
 
I'd go for option 2. It's a very competitive price compared with a lot of the other options and you'll still have the full manual control of your SLR (and RAW!).
 
SummerSound said:
I'd go for option 2. It's a very competitive price compared with a lot of the other options and you'll still have the full manual control of your SLR (and RAW!).
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Mmm. I can see where you're coming from Tom, but to my mind the LiveView on my 40D isn't up to the task. It can only AF with the mirror down, so it means either using MF or waiting for the mirror to flip down and up for AF to take place; that seems to me far more suited to a tripod situation than an underwater environment. And I DON'T want to use the optical viewfinder - that's far too awkward in a dive mask!
 
Nod said:
Apart from the Canon and the Oly waterproof options, I think there's also a Pentax and a Fuji. Have a feeling that Panasonic do a waterproof video cam as well. Not sure what it's still facility is like but might be worth a look.
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Does that mean you agree that a waterproof P&S might be the best way forward for me?

I'm not wedded to Canon, but I'd prefer a Canon because of the commonality of terminology, menus etc with my DSLR. However if Olympus, Pentax etc offered better cameras for less money, I'd be stupid to say no. I'll go check out what's available.
 
Cobra said:
Taken in the Maldives mostly snorkeling and down to 17 meters no problem
and shot in Jpeg as well.

Canon powershot A570 is
and the WP-DC12 housing.
IIRC the whole lot was less than £180 but that was nearly 18 months ago


http://www.talkphotography.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=93250&highlight=bit+fishy

http://www.talkphotography.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=95334&highlight=underwater+adventure
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Ooh, nice.

No RAW - so did you use custom WB, or fix it later, or not need to?

Unfortunately, underwater housings for cameras which are currently on sale seem to cost about £200 each. Housings for cameras which aren't currently on sale can be a bit cheaper, but not very much - for example the housing for the A570 is now £170 at Warehouse Express. Looks like prices have gone up since you bought!
 
Stewart, I have a Fuji f100fd (google it) with underwater housing (up to 40mtrs) that you are welcome to borrow (free of charge) for your trip if you like.
 
StewartR said:
Does that mean you agree that a waterproof P&S might be the best way forward for me?

I'm not wedded to Canon, but I'd prefer a Canon because of the commonality of terminology, menus etc with my DSLR. However if Olympus, Pentax etc offered better cameras for less money, I'd be stupid to say no. I'll go check out what's available.
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Yup.

I would love a full housing set-up for my old D70 but having had a "waterproof" camera prove not to be, I don't trust them enough! For hobby and holiday use (let's face it, not that many will get printed and even fewer to A4 or bigger) a 1/2 decent compact will do the job just fine.

The only aspect of the Canon which I find less attractive than the Oly (apart from the waterproofness...) is that the Canon's a bit bulkier so doesn't fit as nicely in a shirt pocket when just out for a wander but in all other respects like menu navigation, image quality, ease of use, I prefer the Canon (again, yet to be tested undewater/snorkelling).

When the Oly was working, I have to say that at snorkelling depths, I didn't find I needed the flash and had it almost always disabled since when it DID go off, the reflections from the (invisible to naked eye and un-noticed in natural light) plankton etc really hazed the pics up. I found it less of a problem to underexpose a little and bring the brightness up slightly in PP.
 
StewartR said:
Ooh, nice.

No RAW - so did you use custom WB, or fix it later, or not need to?

Unfortunately, underwater housings for cameras which are currently on sale seem to cost about £200 each. Housings for cameras which aren't currently on sale can be a bit cheaper, but not very much - for example the housing for the A570 is now £170 at Warehouse Express. Looks like prices have gone up since you bought!
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Actually it has an "underwater setting!"
Hardly needed "tweaking" at all ( WB that is)
Blimey the prices seem to have gone up a lot then!
If was definitely well under £200 All in, Stewart
 
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