Rookie wants to change to Leica system

Cey

Cey

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Cey
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Hello everyone,

I'm very new in this forum and I hope to get some of your ideas on a thought I have.
I'm a PhD student based in London and two years ago I got into photography. Specifically I am fascinated by street photography and portraits.
I ended up watching a BBC documentary on William Klein and his New York book. I want to learn how to do this... (I thought it's maybe interesting to give you guys a bit of a background of where I'm coming from and what kind of photographer I would like to be and learn to be.

My current equipment is:

X-Xpro 1
a wonderful 35mm f. 1.4 prime lens
Fujifilm X Mount - 27mm F/2.8

Panasonic Lumix TZ60


Since I started with my photography journey I'm very keen on owning a Leica (I know there is a lot out there from people that love this brand ... especially the M series and others that think it's a overpriced camera). After having done some research and considering my budget, I'm very keen on getting a Leica D-Lux 109.
My thought process:

1. I never change my lens 35mm on my X-Pro 1 (The auto focus is sometimes killing me)
2. My 27mm is barley in action
3. My Lumix is handy and good and I guess does the job. I'm just not happy in low light

I was therefore thinking to sell off my equipment on Ebay and get the D-Lux 109. This way I could own my first Leica and get Lightroom on top.
The best would be to sell all my stuff and get the D-Lux in exchange.


This is just an idea I'm having and I don't really know enough people in the photography world to simply say: What do you think about this?

I hope I could express myself in a logic way and get some thoughts on this.

Thank you everyone in advance!
 
personally, if I was in the market for something like that, I'd go for the Panasonic Lumix DMC-LX100 - effectively the same camera (but with a decent handgrip) for £300 less, that'd buy you the Adobe CC photography pack (so lightroom and PhotoShop) for about 3 years at current prices...

of course, it wouldn't have the red dot on the front I guess, but frankly I've never sold a picture on the strength of what my camera looked like, so I don't care.
 
Why don't you, sell your 35mm 1.4 and purchase the Fuji 35 f2 WR that has much better focusing (so I read) and this change may cost you under £100.

I have no experience with Leica but that just looks like another compact camera to me, with a smaller sensor than your current X-Pro 1
 
T_J_G said:
Why don't you, sell your 35mm 1.4 and purchase the Fuji 35 f2 WR that has much better focusing (so I read) and this change may cost you under £100.

I have no experience with Leica but that just looks like another compact camera to me, with a smaller sensor than your current X-Pro 1
Click to expand...
My fruend has the 35f2 on his xpro1 and he thinks its still slooow to focus
 
SsSsSsSsSnake said:
Omg,for a minute i read the title and i thought you meant Rookies wanted a Leica lol
Click to expand...
Me too!
Wasn't there an almost similar thread to this a few weeks back? Done a search but can't find it. I'm sure this has been discussed recently by someone somewhere.
 
TheBigYin said:
personally, if I was in the market for something like that, I'd go for the Panasonic Lumix DMC-LX100 - effectively the same camera (but with a decent handgrip) for £300 less, that'd buy you the Adobe CC photography pack (so lightroom and PhotoShop) for about 3 years at current prices...

of course, it wouldn't have the red dot on the front I guess, but frankly I've never sold a picture on the strength of what my camera looked like, so I don't care.
Click to expand...
This^
 
Not sure why you would want a re-branded Panasonic with a 4/3 sensor.

I would prefer to upgrade to a more recent Fuji

However the 109 is aimed squarely at the affluent compact camera user, who has few pretensions towards serious photography, and it fills that role very well indeed.
Even your Fuji set up with its larger sensor and F1.4 lens has better low light potential. Though newer models have improved their high ISO results even further, as well as their focus speed.
 
I would look at the Panasonic LX100 as well, but i would be very reluctant to let go of the entire Fuji setup, because either the LX100 or the D-Lux 109 is not likely to perform as well in low light, or deliver the same degree of background separation that you would get at f/1.4 with your Fuji lens.

The other thing to keep in mind is that any digital camera's value will drop to the £50-£200 mark given enough time (my Canon 5D MkI cost £1600 new but can now be had for about £200), but lenses keep their value reasonably well. So by converting your entire Fuji setup into a single compact camera, albeit with a Leica badge, you are almost guaranteed to lose money faster than if you kept at least some of the Fuji lenses.

If you really want to buy into the whole Leica philosophy I would recommend you save up for M-series lenses and bodies.
 
I too would stick with Fuji, as a classic photographers tool they take some beating (you'd have to spend a lot more on a 'real' Leica to improve).

Try your 35mm on an improved Fuji camera to see what it's capable of.

And if you want something with 'better' focussing than a modern Fuji I think you're going to have to go CaNikon.
 
William Klein shot with analogue M bodies, not rebranded Panasonic compacts. If you really want to learn how to deliver results like his, start with film to really challenge yourself.
 
Unlike some here I don't think there's a massive real world difference between MFT and APS-C and I think that the DoF issue is as ever overblown.

However I'd avoid the fixed lens MFT camera and go for the GX80 which is a bit of a bargain and allows the use of other lenses.

Or alternatively go for a Sony A7 and old manual lenses. I used to think that 42 was the answer but now I realise that although somtimes it is more often the answer is an A7 :D
 
"Wow, that's an amazing photograph! You must have a really good camera!"
"You're right. It's the best money can buy."
"I can always tell. Nothing can beat the best. I've got one too, but there's something wrong with mine. It takes crap photographs. I'm sending it back."
 
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Cey said:
I was therefore thinking to sell off my equipment on Ebay and get the D-Lux 109.
Click to expand...

Have you tried manually focusing with your X-Pro 1 and zone focussing? That's what I do with my Leica M9 and M6 and I do street.
 
First of all thank you so much everyone! This is amazing seeing all these helpful posts. I put a spreadsheet together with all the insights.
I learned a lot!

I think I like the idea of keeping the lenses and going for a better Fuji Body (Currently having a look... the Xpro-2 is a bit too expensive) I'm having also a look into the XT-1 (Seems similar to my X-Pro 1 but with newer features)

I never tried manual focus on my X-Pro 1...(I feel like having a auto focus lens and using manual focus is kind of losing the point of having the lens in the first place).


So what I mainly learned in regards to my idea of getting into the Leica world. A compact Leica is not going to give a Leica experience especially if it's a rebranded Panasonic...

Thank you so much again for all the comments! You guys help me a lot understanding this hole issue.
 
T_J_G said:
Why don't you, sell your 35mm 1.4 and purchase the Fuji 35 f2 WR that has much better focusing (so I read) and this change may cost you under £100.
Click to expand...
Unfortunately no amount of lens swapping will really help in this particular situation as the focusing issue is the body. The -Pro1 is a legacy model that doesn't have the on-board AF systems to benefit from the faster focusing lenses in the same way that the -T1, -T2, -Pro2 or even the humble -E2 have.
 
The xt20 is out end of FEB,looks a great little camera, and that 35 would work a lot faster though not quite as fast as the 35f2
 
Cey said:
I'm having also a look into the XT-1
Click to expand...


LOTS available 2nd hand since the X-T2 came out and Fuji were offering extra on trade ins. Have a look in the well known 2nd hand dealers' websites (MPB, Ffordes, Mifsuds, WEX, LCE etc.).

Oh, and stick a little red dot on the X-Pro - few will notice that it isn't a Leica but a Likea!!! :p
 
X-E2 would do the job, focus is more than adequate, small enough to be discreet too
 
Cey said:
I never tried manual focus on my X-Pro 1...(I feel like having a auto focus lens and using manual focus is kind of losing the point of having the lens in the first place).
Click to expand...

Forgive me if you're too young to have used old time manual cameras or if you know all this already just ignore me...

For some subjects like "street" and other things which may require fast or discrete shooting manual shooting may actually be preferable to letting the camera autofocus and auto meter. What you can do is pre set the ISO, aperture and shutter speed and the focus too so that pretty much everything from here to the stars is acceptably sharp or so that a range of distances from your camera is acceptably sharp. For example you may set a camera with a 28mm lens so that everything from a few feet in front of the lens to infinity is acceptably sharp or you may set it up so that only the things from 4 or 5 feet to 10 or 12 feet in front of the camera are acceptably sharp. The advantage of doing this is that you can just bring the camera to your eye, frame the shot and shoot without waiting for the camera to meter and focus or you can avoid bringing the camera to your eye and shoot from the hip, chest or whatever. This can be a very fast way of capturing what's happening discretely.

Anyway, going the manual route might be worth thinking about for some subjects and/or some situations.
 
THANK YOU SO MUCH Everyone. Especially the useful tips with the manual focus! You guys are completely right and I need to read more about this. I will def. go through some video tutorials to understand this a bit better.
I think so far keeping the lenses and switching to either a XT1 or XT2 and learning how to use manual focus is a good idea... (also the idea of trading them in instead of using Ebay seems good)

I also wanted to note something for those that are responding to my post in a very negative and not useful way. Yes I haven't considered manual focus and yes I just learned that this is a key technique in street photography and I'm very happy that I learned this through this online community. If I would be smart enough and experienced enough to know all these things I would not reach out and ask for help in the first place. I'm more than grateful for all the insights and I hope to help someone else one day on this topic :).
 
Alastair said:
Unfortunately no amount of lens swapping will really help in this particular situation as the focusing issue is the body. The -Pro1 is a legacy model that doesn't have the on-board AF systems to benefit from the faster focusing lenses in the same way that the -T1, -T2, -Pro2 or even the humble -E2 have.
Click to expand...

Which is why I then revised what I said later in the discussion :) after be informed of this.
 
To be fair, I think the posts above (my own included) were trying to guide you away from the assumption that throwing a pile of cash at a compact camera because it's got a red dot won't make you suddenly take better street images. There's no substitute for simply learning the kit you already have.

The majority of 'street' photography I see all over Flickr is the same collection of "man with cigarette", "homeless man", "woman in red coat crossing road" type results and, to me, they don't have any originality.

Also, manual focus isn't a key technique in street, it's just another technique that you as the photographer should be able to use if you need to. Many classic photographs will have been taken with the photographer fixing their focus on a particular spot with an interesting background then waiting for the right mix of people to come along. You don't need to grab your camera and instantly react to get a result.

Whatever you choose to do, good luck with it.
 
If you have the red dot itch then get one by all means but I'm sure you will be happy with a newer x camera.
 
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Have you updated the firmware for the camera and lens? You might have some improvements for free.
 
Cey said:
Hello everyone,

I'm very new in this forum and I hope to get some of your ideas on a thought I have.
I'm a PhD student based in London and two years ago I got into photography. Specifically I am fascinated by street photography and portraits.
I ended up watching a BBC documentary on William Klein and his New York book. I want to learn how to do this... (I thought it's maybe interesting to give you guys a bit of a background of where I'm coming from and what kind of photographer I would like to be and learn to be.

My current equipment is:

X-Xpro 1
a wonderful 35mm f. 1.4 prime lens
Fujifilm X Mount - 27mm F/2.8

Panasonic Lumix TZ60


Since I started with my photography journey I'm very keen on owning a Leica (I know there is a lot out there from people that love this brand ... especially the M series and others that think it's a overpriced camera). After having done some research and considering my budget, I'm very keen on getting a Leica D-Lux 109.
My thought process:

1. I never change my lens 35mm on my X-Pro 1 (The auto focus is sometimes killing me)
2. My 27mm is barley in action
3. My Lumix is handy and good and I guess does the job. I'm just not happy in low light

I was therefore thinking to sell off my equipment on Ebay and get the D-Lux 109. This way I could own my first Leica and get Lightroom on top.
The best would be to sell all my stuff and get the D-Lux in exchange.


This is just an idea I'm having and I don't really know enough people in the photography world to simply say: What do you think about this?

I hope I could express myself in a logic way and get some thoughts on this.

Thank you everyone in advance!
Click to expand...

Hello

I can't say I'd advise this decision. I was in a simile boat and ended up with the Leica v lux some years ago - a very nice camera, but it is not "quite" there. I hate to echo people's comments, but it is literally a rebadged Panasonic with no addedd goodness - apart from the badge. I currently sport an FZ1000 (larger sensor bridge) which I am very much enjoying. I am also about to purchase a Leica. Having researched massively, I strongly suggest you check out the X series. These sport fast lens and also have a large sensor - ideal for low light. The X1 (while an old model) is probably going to be my choice, it may not sport video or a super high res screen, but it delivers the goods in Leica fashion. Do not go done the d Liz route - until you have tried the X. [emoji4]
 
Reading all your inputs and looking around on the Fuji webpage... I decided to trade in my X-Pro1 and get a XT-1 (apparently I get some cash back with certain dealers) making it overall a good deal and apparently an improvement with the system and yes @stevelmx5 It's a hard and long way but the only way is to learn how to shoot with what you have :).

@stickytape I believe you with your V Lux and I don't want to make the same mistake here...

THANK YOU VERY MUCH AGAIN EVERYONE FOR BEING SO SUPPORTIVE !
 
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