Sad Times

Maggie52

Maggie52

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Margaret
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I'm sure this subject has been done to death in the past so apologies if that's the case.

I've just returned from watching my 11 year old grandson playing football for his local team. I had my camera with me thinking I could take some shots, mainly of him for my family album. Sadly I was informed by the mangers wife that this was not allowed as I would need approval from every parent as some would worry about there intended purpose. I asked what sort of things to be told paedophiles looking at them.

Really? how ludicrous, I did say surely they could just come here and watch in real time perhaps hide in the bushes etc. It did appear that mobile phone photos were ok though.

What on earth has it come to in this country when everyone is viewed with suspicion...
 
Unless they were playing on land owned by the manager's wife, she had absolutely no authority to tell you that you couldn't take photographs. She was talking out of her backside (as many do). It's entirely up to you whether you then give in to her irrationality or tell her to go do one. She'd have got short shrift from me.
 
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If in a public place there's no expectation of privacy, so shoot away. You don't need permission from anyone, parent or otherwise, unless you intend to use the shots commercially.
 
I did think about challenging her, but was unsure as the match was being played at a local football club though the club has nothing to do with her. She was the manager's wife of the team my grandson plays for too so didn't really want to be too confrontational.

I wonder what message we are sending to our kids with this sort of paranoia.
 
This happened to me with my stepson playing football. At the time I used to take photos for the local rugby team (adults first team). However was told that I could shoot any of the junior games whenever I felt like it.
 
I just googled and got this.

Is it illegal to take photographs of children?
No, there are no separate laws for minors (but it is of course illegal to capture an indecent photograph of a child). However some schools and childrens’ sports venues may choose to restrict photography at some events. Such venues are of course private property (where the siteholder can impose any rules they wish) but no such restrictions could normally be imposed or enforced in a public location.
 
Maggie52 said:
I did think about challenging her, but was unsure as the match was being played at a local football club though the club has nothing to do with her. She was the manager's wife of the team my grandson plays for too so didn't really want to be too confrontational.

I wonder what message we are sending to our kids with this sort of paranoia.
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The only relevant question; where was this? If it's an organised event on private land, there can be restrictions on photography.

They shouldn't generally feel to use those restrictions to support stupid people like the managers wife, but it's worth checking.

Likewise it's worth turning up to the club AGM and asking the question, it'll be held shortly if I know anything.
 
Thing is most sports grounds are not public places so restrictions may apply (as Phil just said, cross post...) . That said I have photographed my son at both football and rugby over the years and photographed my daughter's dance shows indoors without any bother. It's quite curious though, turn up with the DSLR with 150-600 attached and you do attract some comments, turn up with the MFT with 100-300 (200-600 FF equivalent) and no one seems to bat an eyelid.
 
I've been stopped taking my sons photos in games this season. In Ireland,its part of the "child welfare act" that no parent can take photos at games. You now have to have an FAI media pass,(Football association of Ireland) to do so.

The difference here is,that all grounds are club owned and private property ,so the referee has the right to stop the game and ask the photographer to stop taking photos.

I'm still ok to take photos of GAA though,so far,until the madness continues. But they are thinking of the best for the kid's ,are we overprotective???
 
Sorry have to add, the referee gets his orders the league,so he has to enforce the rules. Giving him the right to stop the game.
 
Phil V said:
The only relevant question; where was this? If it's an organised event on private land, there can be restrictions on photography.

They shouldn't generally feel to use those restrictions to support stupid people like the managers wife, but it's worth checking.

Likewise it's worth turning up to the club AGM and asking the question, it'll be held shortly if I know anything.
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Yes this was my concern. I did think along those lines, asking the Football/ rugby club this question at some point but then again it could be months or years when they will play on this pitch again, hardly worth the effort. Had it been the wife of the opposing teams manager I may well have argued the point. I've been loads of times and taken photos without any issue.

I'm not even sure why she took it on herself to be the local paedophile police! As I said previously, I don't want to cause upset for my grandson, hearing his Nan having a disagreement with the managers wife would not have been the right thing to do.
 
dcash29 said:
Because there are a lot of sad and ignorant people who crave self importance.
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I think you're right there. Funnily enough I arrived,at the same time she did and when I got out of my car she gave me the evil eye then! I recall thinking "Who's that and what have I done to upset her" Perhaps she's just a miserable old trout. :D
 
When will f*****g libtards get it in to their thick heads, child abusers do not want photos of fully dressed kids playing sport.

They want a different kind of photo, which believe it or not is available to them online if they look hard enough.

I bet this stupid woman has photos of her grandkids in the bath and put them on facetwat?? Women are irrational creatures at the best of time let alone when kids are involved.
 
andyscott said:
When will f*****g libtards get it in to their thick heads, child abusers do not want photos of fully dressed kids playing sport.

They want a different kind of photo, which believe it or not is available to them online if they look hard enough.

I bet this stupid woman has photos of her grandkids in the bath and put them on facetwat?? Women are irrational creatures at the best of time let alone when kids are involved.
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When there's a law to stop them abusing people with a camera
 
andyscott said:
When will f*****g libtards get it in to their thick heads, child abusers do not want photos of fully dressed kids playing sport.

They want a different kind of photo, which believe it or not is available to them online if they look hard enough.

I bet this stupid woman has photos of her grandkids in the bath and put them on facetwat?? Women are irrational creatures at the best of time let alone when kids are involved.
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They're not f*****g libtards though.

You'll find the 'p*** round every corner' brigade are Daily Mail, Sun, ITV Brexiteers.

Sorry to burst your bubble

Us liberal leftie Guardian reader types want to hear the backstory and half of us assume that loads of people on the 'register' is cos when they were 15 their girlfriends Dad was a git!

But don't let the facts get in the way of your hate filled narrow minded world view.
 
Phil V said:
They're not f*****g libtards though.

You'll find the 'p*** round every corner' brigade are Daily Mail, Sun, ITV Brexiteers.

Sorry to burst your bubble

Us liberal leftie Guardian reader types want to hear the backstory and half of us assume that loads of people on the 'register' is cos when they were 15 their girlfriends Dad was a git!

But don't let the facts get in the way of your hate filled narrow minded world view.
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I don't see your argument, I think I have a pretty accurate view of the world when it comes to seeing those involved in sexual assault, kids and adults.

Those Muppets who believe a parent with a camera is a threat to their kid is rediculous, more risk from Facebook or their uncle Brian babysitting
 
andyscott said:
I don't see your argument, I think I have a pretty accurate view of the world when it comes to seeing those involved in sexual assault, kids and adults.

Those Muppets who believe a parent with a camera is a threat to their kid is rediculous, more risk from Facebook or their uncle Brian babysitting
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I never said they weren't ridiculous, I just pointed out that the people inaccurately scared of pedos round every corner are not 'f*****g libtards' as you so eloquently put it.

The fact is (as I pointed out rather accurately) they're more likely to be to the right of the political spectrum.
 
Wether shooting kids or adults I always seek permission from both clubs. I have only been refused once by a cricket team with some 16 year olds playing. They required me to be CRB cleared.
Maybe you should go through the club secretary and offer some of the photographs for their web site (if they have one).
It is a pity if they say no, as the kids love to see them selves in action.
 
Sgt_Bilko99 said:
Wether shooting kids or adults I always seek permission from both clubs. I have only been refused once by a cricket team with some 16 year olds playing. They required me to be CRB cleared.
Maybe you should go through the club secretary and offer some of the photographs for their web site (if they have one).
It is a pity if they say no, as the kids love to see them selves in action.
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I didn't take any photos, didn't get the opportunity.

Seeking permission would have been impossible today,
1.I didn't know they were playing in my town till this morning.
2. No one involved with the club itself was there, the kids were just using the pitch.
3. It was the parents who needed to give permission (according to managers wife)
 
I'd have told her to p*** off.

I was taking photos of a remembrance parade a few years back. My son is in the army cadets. Had a cubs leader tell me I wasn't allowed to take pictures in case there were vulnerable kids in the parade. I told her that if she had vulnerable kids then she should probably not be parading them through town. She disappeared without another word.

Last year, another parade, had some chap from the same cubs group try to tell me the same (despite loads of parents with mobile phones and point and shoots). I told him I wasn't interested in his kids group and if he had a problem to call the police. Didn't hear another word.

Some people are just self important jobs worths.
 
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OldCarlos said:
Maggie, report the person & the club.

They have no right to stop you & the FA's `respect` initiative also agrees.

There was a very similar thread a while ago with the same issue.

Edit; Thread here well worth a read - https://www.talkphotography.co.uk/t...aking-photos-today-for-the-first-time.567796/

Don't let this go without challenging the woman/team & informing them they were wrong.
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Thank you Carl.

I've read the other thread, sounded horrific! I was purely there as a spectator wishing to take some photos of my grandson enjoying his match.
I think I will print a couple of those FA Respect rules and pass them on to my son. It's so difficult as I don't want to cause my grandson grief, it's rare I get the chance to watch him play. I wish now I had just ignored her and carried on. I did query how the hell you can get permission from every individual parent.
 
I had this with my drone recently. Was photographing a high end home in the countryside and there was a neighbour not too far away so I knocked on his door just to let him know what I was doing. He got the hump because his kids were playing in the garden.

I said "I don't understand, how does that matter?"
"Well, I don't want my kids photographed".
"I'm not. I'm photographing the house next door".

It left me bemused.
a) I'm not a pedophile. But thanks for the insult.
b) Since when do pedophiles get access to a £4m house to then use a £1500 drone at 200ft up to photograph a kid hundreds of feet away?
c) Your child is seen by hundreds of people every day. Do you make him walk around with a bag over his head everywhere he goes?
d) Stop being a prat.
 
Phil V said:
They're not f*****g libtards though.

You'll find the 'p*** round every corner' brigade are Daily Mail, Sun, ITV Brexiteers.

Sorry to burst your bubble

Us liberal leftie Guardian reader types want to hear the backstory and half of us assume that loads of people on the 'register' is cos when they were 15 their girlfriends Dad was a git!

But don't let the facts get in the way of your hate filled narrow minded world view.
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Hmmm. I'm not entirely sure what wanting to leave an increasingly authoritarian and decreasingly democratic club for an aging white European elite has to do with this but I'll have a good think about it.

And more on point I'm irritated that men with cameras are paedos but anyone can snap away with impunity with a smartphone and post hundreds of pictures on social media before the P**** with the camera has even got home.
 
Maggie52 said:
I think I will print a couple of those FA Respect rules and pass them on to my son. It's so difficult as I don't want to cause my grandson grief, it's rare I get the chance to watch him play. I wish now I had just ignored her and carried on. I did query how the hell you can get permission from every individual parent.
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I think that would be a good idea tbh, at least it will educate those that don't know what they're talking about & may actually relieve any unfounded/misguided pressure they feel they have + it may help other parents/G parents that have been stopped from taking pictures in the past.

As others have said, just because it's a `proper` camera rather than an I-phone, it should make absolutely no difference & as long as kids aren't actually named on social media etc (just in case they are in care, or have been subject to care proceedings, under protection orders etc) there is no reason not to take pictures.

It increasingly seems common sense has gone out of the window these days. :rolleyes:
 
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woof woof said:
Hmmm. I'm not entirely sure what wanting to leave an increasingly authoritarian and decreasingly democratic club for an aging white European elite has to do with this but I'll have a good think about it.

And more on point I'm irritated that men with cameras are paedos but anyone can snap away with impunity with a smartphone and post hundreds of pictures on social media before the P**** with the camera has even got home.
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And if your a woman with a camera it's fine...
 
OldCarlos said:
it should make absolutely no difference & as long as kids aren't actually named on social media etc (just in case they are in care, or have been subject to care proceedings, under protection orders etc) there is no reason not to take pictures.
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And that is exactly the point the Police made to me (and the Council) when I pursued my argument that I'm not a Paedophile and you're welcome to investigate me to prove otherwise.

It was the only logical conclusion anybody with just a modicum of common sense could come to.

(I was photographing our local Cricket Club which uses Council grounds. I did not see that I should have to go through CRB checks for such a simple activity. I was told that as long as I could reasonably ascertain no minor was in a 'protected/custodial environment' everything would be fine. Quite how they accepted that I was not a felon in the pay of Kidnappers is another issue entirely)
 
Thanks guys for your useful comments.

For some reason I still feel aggrieved this morning, I guess it's the stupidity of some people and with myself for not standing up for myself. I know if it had been someone other than the manager's wife I would have stood my ground but didn't want to embarrass my grandson and my son who obviously deal with these people on a weekly basis.

I will do as I said and print out the information and give it to my son, he's perhaps will get the message across without it being confrontational.

This whole business of taking photos out and about where kids are going about doing what kids do is seriously worrying. Many parents jump on the bandwagon of hearing others saying "don't want people taking photos of my kids" What the hell are they thinking? Seriously if they are so worried about their kids being seen outside with the possibility of them being in someone's photo then perhaps they should keep them inside.

i really feel sorry and concerned for the guys who are out with their cameras, if I'm made to feel uncomfortable what the hell is it like for you guys?
 
Maggie52 said:
For some reason I still feel aggrieved this morning, I guess it's the stupidity of some people and with myself for not standing up for myself.
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With hindsight you would have stood up to her, BUT, at the time you weren't sure, so you did the right thing. (y)

I guess things like this, when challenged, will point out to those that only think they are correct, that actually they are wrong & maybe they too will then help to spread the word. :cool:
 
Some ,if not most clubs have a disclaimer in their application form,that states "from time to time,there might be a photographer at the games,if you don't want your child in those photos please let a committee member know"

In saying that ,the club never use the said photos on social media,its only for print ,which they adorn the club walls.
 
chuckles said:
This is a useful document to print and carry all the time in your camera bag.... double-sided A4 and is pretty much up to date as far as I can tell.

Photographer's RIghts - UK
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Photographers rights are largely irrelevant when you're faced with irrational people with a bazzy on. They don't give a stuff about your rights and you could argue with them until you're blue in the face but you'd just be wasting your breath. These people are irrational. They're only interested in seeing things their way. A sheet of A4 with 'the rules' written on it will not stop them.
 
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