Second hand nikon FX: D3 vs D600 or a DX?

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Andy
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Hi everyone

I'm looking at moving from canon to nikon and have been investigating my options.
I want to mainly take pictures of people using speedlights and strobes, as well as natural light.
My budget for a body is approximately £600

I'm tempted by the two fx bodies here as I will be able to pick up older nikon lenses second hand that require the internal focus motor.
The DX are here just as i can get them new under my budget.

One further note is that I will be tethering and controlling my camera via tether

So far, I have seen that the choices seem to be:
  • D3 at around £670
  • D600 for under £600 (with under 10k actuations).
  • D7100 new at £695
  • D5300 new at £399

My hesitation with a D3 is that the sensor has significantly less megapixels than every other camera on the list - i know megapixels are far from the be all and end all - but i would like my camera body to be useful for the next 5 or so years.

Am I missing any other potential good buys?

thanks for reading
 
D600 would be my tip. Great image quality. Just make sure it's got a clean sensor as some models suffered from dust/oil on the sensor.
 
D3 is a very capable solid 'Pro' body and although not up to the MP volume of some more modern cameras it is no slouch with excellent AF and IQ capability.
D600 has a very much smaller AF Point cover which may be an issue for you and has (rightly or wrongly) a bad reputation due to the oil-spot issues that affected it so could affect resale value.
I would rather get a used or even new D7200 in budget than a new D7100, the D7200 is better all round.
Agree with James re the D700, another very good possible.
For your anticipated use I would stick with FX.
 
I've emailed the retailer regarding the d600 and the sensor- if i was too look in person would this be obvious, and if i don't get a chance to look, would a reputable retailer be able to spot this for me
 
I know the d700 is old but I use one as a back up to a d610! The 700 is close if not better in a lot of situations
 
What about it is better, and do you find the 12MP is an issue?
I would like to create prints as well as an online portfolio
 
gramps said:
You can get it repaired/replaced if you don't mind that possible inconvenience but that won't improve the small AF field :)

http://www.nikonusa.com/en/service-...ers-of-the-Nikon-D600-Digital-SLR-Camera.html
Click to expand...

Thank you for the link

Sorry for my naivety but, is the af difference significant, and would it effect portraits/people type photos without much high speed action?
The other types of photos I would be taking would be of old buildings and a little bit of street photography
 
Having the AFpoints clustered in the centre of the viewfinder wouldn't cut it for me but I guess if the majority of your focus will be central non-moving, or you can focus/recompose with ease and accuracy then it may not be a problem for you. Really only you can decide whether you want to have that limitation as a trade-off for extra MP and/or a newer range camera.
 
I had a D7000 and D300 before I got the D3 and D700 setup. Now I only kept the D3 and change the D700 to a Fuji Xt1. Reason for that is the Fuji allow me to use on holiday and travel compact. The D3 is robust, fast, good handling and never let me down. You don't realise how good the D3 is until you actually tried one. D700 is same as D3 but is smaller, but if you add a grip to D700 it is bigger and heavier then a D3.

12MP never been an issue to me, it works in the pass for me and it still works for me. How much cropping you thinking about doing? I don't crop much so 12MP works for me.

D600 is basically have a full frame sensor in a D7000 body. Is ok but I prefer the pro Nikon body of the D3. Not to mention the D3 is full weather seal, battery last longer, I think the buffer is faster along with higher FPS. Out of D3 and D600 I go for D3 anyday. That's my personal preference. If D3 is too big I would say D700. If you insisit you still want more MP then get D610 instead of D600.
 
My situation is, to give some perspective...

I have a D3, D500 and D7100. The D3 and D7100 are in your price range, the D500 is just phenomenal.

IQ wise 12MP from the D3 is sufficient unless you want to print HUGE. It is immense and because I enjoy using it so much (when I have the strength to carry it around of course) I haven't replaced it. Unless you use it as a workhorse, and the model has a low shutter count it is something you will keep for a very long time.

My D7100, I really can't make up my mind about and I think I will sell it. It's that buffer (mind you the D3 is not much better, hence the D500) which is very restrictive. I have a Pentax K-3 (same size sensor) and I prefer to use that as a walk around camera; get one and I think you may be itching for something better in a short time...

Personally I wouldn't touch a D600 for the reasons mentioned above (but then again I have the K5 which had it's problems at launch), and it's only really a FF D7100 with the build to match. If you want a newer 24MP FF model get the D750.

Isn't the D5300 2 generations 'out of date' now?

So, a vote for the D3 here as a better all-round camera. Seconded by the D7100 as the flash system is more modern.
 
welshwizard645 said:
My situation is, to give some perspective...

I have a D3, D500 and D7100. The D3 and D7100 are in your price range, the D500 is just phenomenal.

IQ wise 12MP from the D3 is sufficient unless you want to print HUGE. It is immense and because I enjoy using it so much (when I have the strength to carry it around of course) I haven't replaced it. Unless you use it as a workhorse, and the model has a low shutter count it is something you will keep for a very long time.

My D7100, I really can't make up my mind about and I think I will sell it. It's that buffer (mind you the D3 is not much better, hence the D500) which is very restrictive. I have a Pentax K-3 (same size sensor) and I prefer to use that as a walk around camera; get one and I think you may be itching for something better in a short time...

Personally I wouldn't touch a D600 for the reasons mentioned above (but then again I have the K5 which had it's problems at launch), and it's only really a FF D7100 with the build to match. If you want a newer 24MP FF model get the D750.

Isn't the D5300 2 generations 'out of date' now?

So, a vote for the D3 here as a better all-round camera. Seconded by the D7100 as the flash system is more modern.
Click to expand...

the shutter count on the ones im looking at are 250-300,000
 
I personally think the cosmetic is more important. The D3 is a very reliable and durable camera, if is well looked after, replacing the shutter is worth it.

Talking about that I bought my D3 1 and a half years ago for £700 (50k click). Reason is cheap because the shop told me the camera does not have a box and it have 1 dead pixel on the lower left corner. It only appear if shooting 1200 iso or higher. After I received the camera, I can't see the dead pixel (suppose to be white according to the staff in the shop) at 6400 iso. Maybe is their but is too small to noticed and is probably quite easy to remove it in post.
 
How much does replacing the shutter cost?

And, is the d3 going to offer the same options with tethering as more modern ones?
 
The D3 is almost too good to be true at todays used prices.
yes there is more resolution with the newer bodys but the D3 is just so capable & still a viable option today.
plus there is nothing like the feel of a single digit body in your hand. :woot: solid dependable workhorse ;)

it's only the absurd megapixel race that would give you the impression that it's lacking in some way......
 
I think the shutter for D3 is around 250-400 pounds replace. Once is done it will last ages again. I like to shoot with my D3 everytime I pick it up.
 
I'm a big fan of the D700 and D3 too. I agree there is a certain joy to using the D3, albeit it is large and heavy but it does handle well. Flipping back to the D700 does make it feel small, which isn't something I ever thought i would say!

While the sensor and AF are supposedly the same in the 2, I believe the D3 is meant to have a better AF motor for AF-D lenses (I haven't had mine long enough to give a proper analysis, I don't know if this is fact or internet rumour) and the D3 certainly has a better viewfinder.

One thing to bear in mind also is that the battery for the D3 is expensive, £100 for genuine Nikons but there are also 3rd party ones available cheaper. I think genuine Nikon batteries for the D700 are around the £40 mark. Just as a note, I picked a D3 up not long ago for £760 with 60k on the shutter, so may be worth spending a little more now and saving the money on a shutter replacement in the near future.

Also, if you are wanting to use AF-D lenses, the D7100 does have an in built motor to drive them.

Do you have triggers for your speedlights etc or are you planning on using the inbuilt CLS system? I don't think the D5xxx range supports it from its onboard flash, the D7xxx, D6xx and D700 do, however the D3 has no flash so obviously doesn't, I use yongnuo 622 on mine :)
 
andy1868 said:
I'm a big fan of the D700 and D3 too. I agree there is a certain joy to using the D3, albeit it is large and heavy but it does handle well. Flipping back to the D700 does make it feel small, which isn't something I ever thought i would say!

While the sensor and AF are supposedly the same in the 2, I believe the D3 is meant to have a better AF motor for AF-D lenses (I haven't had mine long enough to give a proper analysis, I don't know if this is fact or internet rumour) and the D3 certainly has a better viewfinder.

One thing to bear in mind also is that the battery for the D3 is expensive, £100 for genuine Nikons but there are also 3rd party ones available cheaper. I think genuine Nikon batteries for the D700 are around the £40 mark. Just as a note, I picked a D3 up not long ago for £760 with 60k on the shutter, so may be worth spending a little more now and saving the money on a shutter replacement in the near future.

Also, if you are wanting to use AF-D lenses, the D7100 does have an in built motor to drive them.

Do you have triggers for your speedlights etc or are you planning on using the inbuilt CLS system? I don't think the D5xxx range supports it from its onboard flash, the D7xxx, D6xx and D700 do, however the D3 has no flash so obviously doesn't, I use yongnuo 622 on mine :)
Click to expand...

I would be using my own triggers.

What would be the main advantages be of choosing a D3 or D700 over a newer D7100/D7200 - other than the FF - just so i can kind of weigh it up in my head!
And, are the older models able to tether and be controlled through something like digicamcontroller as effectively?
 
advantage of D3/D700.

As Andy says you get a much better viewfinder in both models, my D7100 VF is inferior to my K-3/K-5 VFs
Build quality
What features are on both cameras are there for a purpose, they are not overbrimming with unnecessary features - consider them like a proper amplifier, black box with just a power button. D7100 have so many it's like having a graphic equalizer (remember them?)
 
One thing I would add, is that I won't be using the viewfinder due to a disability - which is one reason I was wanting to shoot tethered
 
If you can stretch it I would go with a used D3s...

Sensor MP's is hugely misleading... what matters more is the amount of detail transmitted to the sensor (along w/ physical size) and we are usually struggling to even get to 10MP.
 
scoped said:
One thing I would add, is that I won't be using the viewfinder due to a disability - which is one reason I was wanting to shoot tethered
Click to expand...

With this in mind I'd recommend the d600 way ahead of the d3. I love the d3 and still have one but if you're using live view 100% of the time nearly all of its advantages over a d600 are eradicated. The d600's live view looks better and is much slicker to use. I dare say the af is better than d3 in live view too but I'm speculating only on the basis it's a few years newer.
 
gad-westy said:
With this in mind I'd recommend the d600 way ahead of the d3. I love the d3 and still have one but if you're using live view 100% of the time nearly all of its advantages over a d600 are eradicated. The d600's live view looks better and is much slicker to use. I dare say the af is better than d3 in live view too but I'm speculating only on the basis it's a few years newer.
Click to expand...

Do you find the central AF points to be an issue?
 
The d5300 if like any of the 5k series before it will not AF with old lenses so write that off your search.
 
gad-westy said:
It's not relevant if you're using live view. You can focus anywhere you like.
Click to expand...

I knew this was the case on my current camera, I was unsure if it was universal , thanks for letting me know

it seems like the d600 with under 10k actuations might be the best buy - is there any questions or things i should do regarding this? I've asked about the sensor and they've said it is clean and comes with charger, battery and in its original box
 
scoped said:
I knew this was the case on my current camera, I was unsure if it was universal , thanks for letting me know

it seems like the d600 with under 10k actuations might be the best buy - is there any questions or things i should do regarding this? I've asked about the sensor and they've said it is clean and comes with charger, battery and in its original box
Click to expand...

Not a lot more to ask other than general condition. I'd ask for a sample raw image of a plane white surface or wall taken at f/16. If you do this, make sure they send a raw and not a jpeg that's been touched up. It may also be worth asking on the D600/D610 thread on here whether Nikon are still doing free services on the D600. They were this time last year. I ended up sending mine in three times and on the third occasion they sent me a new D610 in return :) That's despite them knowing that mine was a used grey import. If they're still offering that level of customer support, it's not the riskiest of buys.
 
:)I'm also disabled I purchased a D3 new once it became available after it was announced and it's never missed a beat in all the years I had it and only one sensor clean done.
Also have a D700 and once again as others have said it's simply amazing even today I think this could be a better choice of the two.
Just to throw another into the pot how about a used D750 a far better choice over the D600/610 and look at investing in some used Nikon glass.?
One body should really meet your needs so why not spend a little more on one body that's still in current lineup?
One thing worth knowing is what sort of subjects your hoping to shoot ?:)
 
gad-westy said:
Not a lot more to ask other than general condition. I'd ask for a sample raw image of a plane white surface or wall taken at f/16. If you do this, make sure they send a raw and not a jpeg that's been touched up. It may also be worth asking on the D600/D610 thread on here whether Nikon are still doing free services on the D600. They were this time last year. I ended up sending mine in three times and on the third occasion they sent me a new D610 in return :) That's despite them knowing that mine was a used grey import. If they're still offering that level of customer support, it's not the riskiest of buys.
Click to expand...

I will post there now and I will email asking about a white surface picture!

Phiggys said:
:)I'm also disabled I purchased a D3 new once it became available after it was announced and it's never missed a beat in all the years I had it and only one sensor clean done.
Also have a D700 and once again as others have said it's simply amazing even today I think this could be a better choice of the two.
Just to throw another into the pot how about a used D750 a far better choice over the D600/610 and look at investing in some used Nikon glass.?
One body should really meet your needs so why not spend a little more on one body that's still in current lineup?
One thing worth knowing is what sort of subjects your hoping to shoot ?:)
Click to expand...

The D750 is too high budget wise and if i really really needed to push the quality up for a specific shoot, I would borrow my sisters d810 (the reason im looking for a high quality body for myself is as i don't know how often i will be able to borrow hers) one reason i am considering switching to nikon is to borrow a lens or two occasionally and be able to cross over equipment.

I've looked at some second hand lenses, which will likely be the route i take
 
I hadn't picked up on the fact that you weren't already shooting Nikon. Have you considered any of the other options? I only ask because some other manufacturers (olympus and panasonic from experience but maybe Sony and Fuji) are doing way better stuff with live view. Touch focus and touch AF point moving might sound gimmicky but is fantastic to use if you're using live view. It makes the Nikon stuff seem a bit clunky in all honesty. Not sure if the Sony A7's have this sort of thing...
 
gad-westy said:
I hadn't picked up on the fact that you weren't already shooting Nikon. Have you considered any of the other options? I only ask because some other manufacturers (olympus and panasonic from experience but maybe Sony and Fuji) are doing way better stuff with live view. Touch focus and touch AF point moving might sound gimmicky but is fantastic to use if you're using live view. It makes the Nikon stuff seem a bit clunky in all honesty. Not sure if the Sony A7's have this sort of thing...
Click to expand...

In another thread someone did mention getting a sony and a converter for nikon lens. I wouldn't actually be holding the camera in quite a lot of the cases (I'm getting an electric pan tilt head) so would be controlling the camera through software on a laptop/tablet, so wouldn't be able to use the live view in that manner - unless it would effect the tethering options
 
scoped said:
In another thread someone did mention getting a sony and a converter for nikon lens. I wouldn't actually be holding the camera in quite a lot of the cases (I'm getting an electric pan tilt head) so would be controlling the camera through software on a laptop/tablet, so wouldn't be able to use the live view in that manner - unless it would effect the tethering options
Click to expand...

Out of my depth in that one I'm afraid but as you say, tethering would eliminate any advantage of touch screens.
 
Phiggys said:
:)I'm also disabled I purchased a D3 new once it became available after it was announced and it's never missed a beat in all the years I had it and only one sensor clean done.
Also have a D700 and once again as others have said it's simply amazing even today I think this could be a better choice of the two.
Just to throw another into the pot how about a used D750 a far better choice over the D600/610 and look at investing in some used Nikon glass.?
One body should really meet your needs so why not spend a little more on one body that's still in current lineup?
One thing worth knowing is what sort of subjects your hoping to shoot ?:)
Click to expand...

Just saw that I missed this bit. People, portraits, artistic portraits and things like that. And some outdoor street photography, with a small amount of landscape (the occasional lake, trees and mountain!)
 
Maybe a Fuji X body with XC 16-50mm & 50-230mm both have iOS and app is available for phone/tablet giving wifi so you can send images direct to phone/tablet.
I'm using this among other Fuji gear.
 
Oh and with a adapter you can mount Nikon lenses but manual focus then becomes the order of the day :(
 
Just to throw something else in the mix, there is a product called Camranger that connects an iPad (or similar) to the camera allowing focusing and other controls via the iPad ... might be worth a look: http://camranger.com/
 
gramps said:
Just to throw something else in the mix, there is a product called Camranger that connects an iPad (or similar) to the camera allowing focusing and other controls via the iPad ... might be worth a look: http://camranger.com/
Click to expand...

Thanks for that link. I think a wifi solution might be a route i go down in the future, but i think at the moment, financially too, it might be best for me to start by tethering, and if i start getting limited by it, to move out in to camranger territory

I really appreciate all the help and time from everyone

Now it is narrowed down to a d600, the last question is; would you swap to nikon in my position?

My current gear is:
canon 60D
100 mm macro 2.8
17-85 mm f4-5.6
430 ex ii speedlite and some yongnuo triggers

If i sell, one website is offering around the £650 mark for all of it (not sure how much i would get for it through other avenues)

Is the d600 a big enough step up to warrant switching? It feels like it is and that full frame will make a difference when shooting indoors.
I find decisions like this hard! But it still feels like moving towards nikon and full frame is the right way to go
 
gad-westy said:
Not a lot more to ask other than general condition. I'd ask for a sample raw image of a plane white surface or wall taken at f/16. If you do this, make sure they send a raw and not a jpeg that's been touched up. It may also be worth asking on the D600/D610 thread on here whether Nikon are still doing free services on the D600. They were this time last year. I ended up sending mine in three times and on the third occasion they sent me a new D610 in return :) That's despite them knowing that mine was a used grey import. If they're still offering that level of customer support, it's not the riskiest of buys.
Click to expand...

They've sent me "the requested image shot stopped down at the sky."
is there anything i need to look for on this image, and is there a way for me to show it here (i'm not sure how the rules of sharing photos like that)
 
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