Beginner Selling your work - Motorsport Photos

[Tom Whitmore]

Hey everyone, this is more business-minded than anything but you may be able to help me.

Before people tell me, yes I know the easiest way to find this out is asking the vendors themselves but this thought has only just come to me, so here goes.

We've all seen the stalls at Motorsport events in the infield selling framed and postcard esque shots of various cars covering various events. Does anybody know how they get said shots? Are the vendors themselves the photographers/work together as a business with a photographer, or do photographers get paid for giving them the photos they take?

I don't really want to go absolutely into a photography career but it would be nice to earn a little extra on the side of my full-time job so I can fund more trips to more events and different circuits etc.

If you can't personally help would you know anywhere they I can check out, maybe post a link?

Thanks!

 

[andrewc]

Vendors will either:

a) be sourcing images from the media photographers accredited to shoot these events from trackside positions. How the recompense is made could either by selling reproduction rights to the image for a set period of time, or offering the photographer a return based on sales.

b) stealing low-res versions from those photographers websites/facebook and hoping they won't get caught.

 

[Tom Whitmore]

Vendors will either:

a) be sourcing images from the media photographers accredited to shoot these events from trackside positions. How the recompense is made could either by selling reproduction rights to the image for a set period of time, or offering the photographer a return based on sales.

b) stealing low-res versions from those photographers websites/facebook and hoping they won't get caught.

Thanks for the reply, so would you think it might be worth me going and asking if they would like to see some of my images, you've gotta start somewhere to get accredited right? And this could be a quick way to earn money straight away

 

[Tom Whitmore]

You do realise that you can't sell any images without the permission of the Event Organisers.

I do, and it kinda sucks. It's a vicous loop. To get media pass you need to be accredited, but to be accredited you need to have previous work to show the event organiser/circuit owner, but to have work to show you need to have work published, but to be published you need to have permission from the organisers etc etc etc.

 

[andrewc]

Trackside vendors and trade stalls are not media outlets.

To be accredited for media, you have to be working for a media outlet - newspapers, local, national or international; magazines and websites. The media organisation will review your application based on how much coverage you can guarantee them.

You can get perfectly usable images from spectator positions, and you can build a relationship with a media outlet with those images, and then maybe you can take the next step.

 

[srhmoto]

Unless things have changed, selling images to joe public or drivers is different than images being used for editorial use. If it’s for editorial use, the media organisation would normally make the application on your behalf, or at the very least provide a letter of accreditation. You’ll also need your own PLI with somewhere around £5m of cover.

If you’re selling pictures on site to the public or drivers, then you will have paid for the pitch you’re selling from and / or be giving a percentage of the takings to the Circuit / organisers.

This may seem harsh, but if you can’t get images good enough for publication or sale from spectator areas at UK circuits, then you’re not going to get them trackside.

If I were you, I’d concentrate on building a body of work from spectator land before doing anything else. Then, maybe identify some drivers local to you get some photos of them and approach yours / their local paper. Persistence will be the key. Don’t expect to make much if any money, and don’t forget you’ll be shooting to someone else’s brief so you may find you have little or no creativity with what you have to produce.

Alternatively, once you have a body of work, maybe approach one of the trackday organisations to shoot for them. You’ll likely have to hand over all the images and stay put in one location during each session to guarantee shots of everyone, but you will earn some money.

Finally, don’t forget the world and his wife is desperate to get trackside just like you, so Competition is mighty fierce.

Good luck!

Simon.

 

[Tom Whitmore]

Unless things have changed, selling images to joe public or drivers is different than images being used for editorial use. If it’s for editorial use, the media organisation would normally make the application on your behalf, or at the very least provide a letter of accreditation. You’ll also need your own PLI with somewhere around £5m of cover.

If you’re selling pictures on site to the public or drivers, then you will have paid for the pitch you’re selling from and / or be giving a percentage of the takings to the Circuit / organisers.

This may seem harsh, but if you can’t get images good enough for publication or sale from spectator areas at UK circuits, then you’re not going to get them trackside.

If I were you, I’d concentrate on building a body of work from spectator land before doing anything else. Then, maybe identify some drivers local to you get some photos of them and approach yours / their local paper. Persistence will be the key. Don’t expect to make much if any money, and don’t forget you’ll be shooting to someone else’s brief so you may find you have little or no creativity with what you have to produce.

Alternatively, once you have a body of work, maybe approach one of the track day organisations to shoot for them. You’ll likely have to hand over all the images and stay put in one location during each session to guarantee shots of everyone, but you will earn some money.

Finally, don’t forget the world and his wife is desperate to get trackside just like you, so Competition is mighty fierce.

Good luck!

Simon.

Thanks for the tips, not harsh at all, I've only been in the game just over a year, I'm more so asking the questions for later down the line than the now, just getting all the help and information I can so that I can make the best possible start. My keeper rate isn't high but I feel I do get some good shots behind the fence, I definitely don't want a media pass just so I'm closer to the racing, I want to make a real go for this.

Most of my shots have been taken in mind of them being editorial, though I'm wanting to get more experimental before I start talking to publishers so I can nail down my style of photography rather than just "taking a picture of a race car"Here's one that I'm happy with, shot through the fence at Donington. I saw the BMW advertising board on the gantry and thought it would make a good photo

 

[srhmoto]

Thanks for the tips, not harsh at all, I've only been in the game just over a year, I'm more so asking the questions for later down the line than the now, just getting all the help and information I can so that I can make the best possible start. My keeper rate isn't high but I feel I do get some good shots behind the fence, I definitely don't want a media pass just so I'm closer to the racing, I want to make a real go for this.

Most of my shots have been taken in mind of them being editorial, though I'm wanting to get more experimental before I start talking to publishers so I can nail down my style of photography rather than just "taking a picture of a race car"Here's one that I'm happy with, shot through the fence at Donington. I saw the BMW advertising board on the gantry and thought it would make a good photo

View attachment 127558

I wish you luck. You've also gone from wanting to make a little money on the side to fund trips etc., to making a real go of it. You really need to decide which it is going to be.

I used to supply images to the Gazette Media Group, Autosport Magazine and Motorsport News, and did so for a number of years. There were a number of reasons that I stopped, but one of them was the monetary return for the time being invested. I was lucky to recover my costs (travel + insurance) over a season never mind make any sort of profit, and that was from losing just about every weekend while the motorsport season was on. In the end, I valued time spent with family and friends over the money being earned as I was never going to earn as much as I would from my full time occupation. Your priorities maybe different, but I found it a brutal regime and extremely tiring. Others who are members here (Andrew Cliffe, Gary Parravani, Matt Sayle and Jon Bryant to name but a few) have successfully made a career out of it, but don't think for one minute that it's easy and there aren't significant personal sacrifices to be made, even just to get that first accreditation.

I can see where you're coming from with that shot you posted, but the reality is that it is a very clichéd shot so your challenge is to come up with something different that makes you stand out from all the other photographers out there who are trying to do exactly what you are doing.

These days, I have no interest in chasing accreditation. I shoot what I want, when I want and how I want. As a result, I enjoy my photography way more than I used when signed on. Again YMMV

Simon.

 

[andrewc]

Thanks Simon for the mention.

I found my niche in motorsport photography which I'm happy about. I'm fortunate in that my wife enjoys motor racing as well, and has found her niche, so the days I'm trackside, she's also at the track helping out, so we've got time together. I'm strictly a weekend warrior, but admire those few that have successfully turned it from a weekend job to a full time job and hope they have constructed their personal life around their work and their families are understanding.

Its difficult to make things pay when there are lots of talented snappers in the spectator areas producing very good work which they are happy to share.

 

[Tom Whitmore]

Thanks Simon for the mention.

I found my niche in motorsport photography which I'm happy about. I'm fortunate in that my wife enjoys motor racing as well, and has found her niche, so the days I'm trackside, she's also at the track helping out, so we've got time together. I'm strictly a weekend warrior, but admire those few that have successfully turned it from a weekend job to a full time job and hope they have constructed their personal life around their work and their families are understanding.

Its difficult to make things pay when there are lots of talented snappers in the spectator areas producing very good work which they are happy to share.

The weekend warrior is what I aim to be too. I don't want my whole life to revolve around making money off Motorsport as that is when it will no longer be fun to be a part of. But don't get me wrong I still want to be a professional individual and treat my photography as a business. As Simon rightly mentioned above I am contradicting myself a little, but I struggle to explain what it is I want to become, but I know in my own head what I want, which is all that matters for me. I just need the help and advice from places like this and people like you guys happy to help, so I can go about achieving my goal in the right way. If that makes sense.

 

[srhmoto]

The weekend warrior is what I aim to be too. I don't want my whole life to revolve around making money off Motorsport as that is when it will no longer be fun to be a part of. But don't get me wrong I still want to be a professional individual and treat my photography as a business. As Simon rightly mentioned above I am contradicting myself a little, but I struggle to explain what it is I want to become, but I know in my own head what I want, which is all that matters for me. I just need the help and advice from places like this and people like you guys happy to help, so I can go about achieving my goal in the right way. If that makes sense.

Ok, here’s what I did, as I was also a weekend warrior.

I’d been photographing motorsport for a few years, when I read a report in my local paper about a local crew who’d been competing on a rally I’d been at which had supporting pictures. They were awful, so I sent the images I had of the crew off to the editor with my contact details. Within 10 minutes he called me back, and we had a chat. For the next 12 or 18 months I supplied images from local events of local competitors for editorial use from spectator areas to him. Some were published in the paper, and some weren’t. This built up a good working relationship and demonstrated that I could reliably deliver on any brief I was given. With enough trust built up, he then started to provide letters of accreditation for me to get trackside and signed on. After that, it was networking with other photographers and reporters that eventually got me an opportunity to shoot (some) events for Autosport Magazine and Motorsport News, but that relationship with the editor of the local rag was the key one, and we still maintain contact even though we’ve both moved on.

Hope this helps.

Simon.

 

[Eloise]

You do realise that you can't sell any images without the permission of the Event Organisers.

Everyone appears to be missing / ignoring this important point from @j crossley - the terms and conditions of entry for the public at most motorsports events preclude taking photos commercially.

For example at Silverstone part of the T&C says (my bolding)...

12 The use of photographic equipment is allowed for private non-commercial purposes only. All other recording and any transmission is prohibited. As a condition of entry to the Event you assign (by way of present assignment of future copyright) the copyright in any photographs or recordings you make at the Event to SCL and agree that any photographs or recordings shall not be used for any form of public advertisement or display or for any other purposes including without limit for display on any internet site (except the private enjoyment of the person taking the photograph) without SCL’s prior written consent. SCL, the organiser and authorised third parties may record or make audio, visual or audio-visual recordings of the Event and the ticketholder hereby consents to the use of his or her likeness, image and/or voice within such recordings free of charge.​

 

[Fireproof Creative]

Everyone appears to be missing / ignoring this important point from @j crossley - the terms and conditions of entry for the public at most motorsports events preclude taking photos commercially.

For example at Silverstone part of the T&C says (my bolding)...

12 The use of photographic equipment is allowed for private non-commercial purposes only. All other recording and any transmission is prohibited. As a condition of entry to the Event you assign (by way of present assignment of future copyright) the copyright in any photographs or recordings you make at the Event to SCL and agree that any photographs or recordings shall not be used for any form of public advertisement or display or for any other purposes including without limit for display on any internet site (except the private enjoyment of the person taking the photograph) without SCL’s prior written consent. SCL, the organiser and authorised third parties may record or make audio, visual or audio-visual recordings of the Event and the ticketholder hereby consents to the use of his or her likeness, image and/or voice within such recordings free of charge.​

Very true, but this widely flaunted and rarely enforced (rightly or wrongly)... still doesn’t seem to preclude you from selling pictures to the press as media or as a spectator.

The point everyone is actually missing, is that no one buys motorsport photos [emoji23] so it’s all academic... in 10 years I think I’ve probably made 500 quid total from Motorsport photography... still 50 quid a year means I can afford to travel to one round at Oulton Park per year [emoji854][emoji854][emoji854][emoji16] I’m probably just crap at photography, or marketing, or probably both (Digital marketing specialist is the title of my day job [emoji20])

 

[RichardC27]

Trackside vendors and trade stalls are not media outlets.

To be accredited for media, you have to be working for a media outlet - newspapers, local, national or international; magazines and websites. The media organisation will review your application based on how much coverage you can guarantee them.

You can get perfectly usable images from spectator positions, and you can build a relationship with a media outlet with those images, and then maybe you can take the next step.

This perfectly sums it up. You basically have to create usable, high quality images from the spectator areas and get them published before any circuit will even consider you for media accreditation. Most stipulate a minimum of five published pieces within the past 12 months. You will also need £5 million of public liability insurance cover which will cost you about £100 a year.

The point everyone is actually missing, is that no one buys motorsport photos [emoji23] so it’s all academic... in 10 years I think I’ve probably made 500 quid total from Motorsport photography... still 50 quid a year means I can afford to travel to one round at Oulton Park per year [emoji854][emoji854][emoji854][emoji16] I’m probably just crap at photography, or marketing, or probably both (Digital marketing specialist is the title of my day job [emoji20])

As Jonny says, don't go into this expecting to make money, as you probably won't. If you go into it because you love motorsport and love photography and are prepared to put in a lot of work for very little monetary reward then go ahead, shooting trackside is incredibly rewarding and very different from a day as a spectator.

I'm the same as Jonny, I've been shooting trackside for five years and have probably made less than £300 back in that time. However I've spent a lot more than that in fuel, hotels, travelling etc. . Even if you're accredited you cannot sell your images via your website, the circuits would come down pretty hard on that sort of thing without prior agreement.

In terms of selling photos, that's a whole different ball game involving paying rights fees to circuits / organising clubs / promoters etc, which means even more up-front costs with no guarantee of any return

For example, I've been lucky enough to be accredited for the Silverstone 6 Hours WEC event for the past four years. We are told in the photographers briefing that we are allowed to shoot still images only, no video. This includes any mobile phone video posted on facebook, twitter, instagram etc. If we post any video at all, even to our personal social media, we would be invoiced for £3,200 for moving image rights. And they do check to make sure nobody is trying to get away with it.

Now this all sounds negative, and you'll see the same sort of answers on this forum any time someone asks about making money out of motorsport photography, but don't let that put you off. Work on your photography, post your images on your website, instagram, facebook, Flickr and anywhere else you can get them posted and then in time you may get some published that will lead to accreditation.

 

[Tony Else]

I've been the track photographer at a local bike racing circuit, for a few years now, and each year it gets harder and harder. The race images, go up on the circuit's website gallery( which links through to my own site) and riders & riders friends buy the images. Selected images go out with the race reports to news publications within a 60 mile radius, but I don't get a penny for those.
A few months ago I did my sums. With my TPL insurance, web hosting, creative cloud subscrption etc added up , divided by the 7 meetings we hold a year, meant that I needed to make £65 profit from image sales just to break even. That doesn't include equipment depreciation , fuel costs driving to the circuit etc. Although I achieve that quite comfortably, it doesn't allow for my time. Stood out there rain or shine, then spending 2 or 3 evenings processing 1500 plus images, and getting them uploaded.
Why is it getting harder ? Facebook really. I didn't it increasingly depressing, the amount of free images being given away left right and centre. In the past year a new spectator has appeared, and usually posts up 40 to 50 images of a large number of riders , happily tagging away. To a certain extent, I do appreciate that a rider would ask, why would I buy an image of myself, when I've about 10 images been tagged to me, on my FB wall ? Fortunately , many riders do support me and appreciate what I do.
A labour of love, thats what it is.

 

[Box Brownie]

I hope you mean "fortunately" in that last sentence

As for the new camera carrying spectator............a surmise might be that folk start to tell him "he can make some money from his pictures.....so why don't you?". By which time unless he has a whizzo marketing plan, surely that boat has sailed for him!

 

[Tony Else]

whoops yes , a major typo there. I will correct it
lol

I carry my heavy monopod around with me, not as an aid to my photography, but to t*** him over the head should I see him.