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Hi guys,

First time poster, long time fan...

Basically decided to make the switch from HD Mini DV to VDSLR.

Got my eye on a Canon 5D Mark 3 plus a **** load of gear (sound equipment/CF cards/etc.) to go with.

I have the money, I'm just wondering if there is anything you think I should be taking into consideration when making the switch?

Have used a normal DSLR plenty of times before and I have a pretty good understanding of DSLRs but obviously my main skills lie in film making with bigger cameras.

What you recon? Make the switch or continue with what I've got?

Cheeeeeeers!
 
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SamsEdition said:
Hi guys,

First time poster, long time fan...

Basically decided to make the switch from HD Mini DV to VDSLR.

Got my eye on a Canon 5D Mark 3 plus a **** load of gear (sound equipment/CF cards/etc.) to go with.

I have the money, I'm just wondering if there is anything you think I should be taking into consideration when making the switch?

Have used a normal DSLR plenty of times before and I have a pretty good understanding of DSLRs but obviously my main skills lie in film making with bigger cameras.

What you recon? Make the switch or continue with what I've got?

Cheeeeeeers!
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a steadicam would be a good idea something like the merlin 2
 
Merlin 2? Is that similar to a glidecam?

(Lazy question but I am googling it now anyway. Haha)
 
Jayst84 said:
Before you go dropping a grand on kit you don't need. What do you shoot? And what made you want to switch from DV to DSLR?
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I shoot a lot of various things I suppose; Corporate films, wedding videos, sports videos(particularly xtreme sports - skateboarding/biking and I want to get into xtreme sport photography too) I shoot and direct my own short films and I also do promo work for DJs and things.

I want to make the switch because I know a number of friends that have started to shoot with DSLRs and they say its a god send in terms of video logging time(with the right software) logistics in terms of space (big dv camera vs. small DSLR) and in terms of general feel of the camera and the over all look of the piece/video.

That clear? Sorry, I'm very aware I tend to ramble on...
 
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For what you shoot I would have imagined both to have their benefits.

There is no way I could have my only video camera as a DSLR.

If I were in your position I would have not gone DSLR exclusive but get something like a Nikon D3200 and a tamron or similar 18-200mm...
 
For that sort of work - in all honesty, I wouldn't want to be constrained by the difficulties of an slr. Yes, they can make great pictures, but especially for sports, etc, they're just.... Tough to use, and cost a lot to get into a situation where you can, still less than ideally, use them in a 'run and gun' situation.

I'd look into a hd cam like the xf300 if I were you, fantastic camera, records in great 50mbps to cf cards, great workflow, and then pick up a canon 550D with a couple of lenses as b camera / for when you want the really shallow depth of field. 550d, 11-16 or sigma 24-70 2.8, and a 50 1.4, sd cards and spare batteries should come to about a grand, incredible value for money once you've put magic lantern on it.


And whatever you do, don't cheap out on sound gear!
 
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I'm not gonna cheap out on sound at all. That'd be the worst decision ever.

Are they really that bad in terms of run n gun?

Hmmm... XF300 is a little out of the price range...

Currently on a Sony Z1. Getting kinda old and busted.

Also living in London currently so want something that means I won't need millions of heavy bags. Just a bag with a camera, a couple of lenses, extra CF cards and batteries and a tripod under my arm.

Do-able?
 
As portability is important, have you considered a Panasonic GH2 (outstanding video quality) along with one or two GoPro's?

This would cover all of the bases for the corporate work, as well as the extreme sport stuff you are doing.
 
MarcM said:
As portability is important, have you considered a Panasonic GH2 (outstanding video quality) along with one or two GoPro's?

This would cover all of the bases for the corporate work, as well as the extreme sport stuff you are doing.
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I haven't. I did consider a few Go Pros though yeah. Anyone got one? I know they are good but have never personally handled one.

GH2 is good but the main reason I wanted to go for the 5Dmk3 for it's low light filming capabilities. I film a lot of DJs and nightclub nights it's gotta be really on it in terms of keeping up with the lack of light.

Thanks for the replies btw guys. Helping a lot.
 
itsdavedotnet said:
For that sort of work - in all honesty, I wouldn't want to be constrained by the difficulties of an slr. Yes, they can make great pictures, but especially for sports, etc, they're just.... Tough to use, and cost a lot to get into a situation where you can, still less than ideally, use them in a 'run and gun' situation.

I'd look into a hd cam like the xf300 if I were you, fantastic camera, records in great 50mbps to cf cards, great workflow, and then pick up a canon 550D with a couple of lenses as b camera / for when you want the really shallow depth of field. 550d, 11-16 or sigma 24-70 2.8, and a 50 1.4, sd cards and spare batteries should come to about a grand, incredible value for money once you've put magic lantern on it.


And whatever you do, don't cheap out on sound gear!
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Totally agree. I have the XF300 and in all honesty it's WAY WAY easier to use than a DSLR. Some major benefits are;

Constant AF. AF on DSLRs is tricky unless you have a big high res external screen.

Big zoom lens so you don't have to keep changing lenses. Just push the zoom button (or ring).

XLR audio input with full audio controls on the camera body. So no need for an external sound recorder that would be required to get good audio with a DSLR.

Very manageable files. Pretty much just download from camera and import to your editing software. Records to CF cards so pretty cheap to run.

The best part is AMAZING image quality. I'm not lying it really is very very good.


Here is the big that might interest you though. The XF300s smaller brother is the XF100 that does 80% of what the XF300 does but for a fraction of the price. I also have the XF100 as my B cam and backup and/or discreet camera. It's major advantage over the XF300 is that it's very small.
In 90% of the things I have filmed that image quality is next to impossible to tell the difference to the XF300.
I would serious have a look at the XF100.

Hope that helps. (y)
 
EMA747 said:
The best part is AMAZING image quality. I'm not lying it really is very very good.


Here is the big that might interest you though. The XF300s smaller brother is the XF100 that does 80% of what the XF300 does but for a fraction of the price. I also have the XF100 as my B cam and backup and/or discreet camera. It's major advantage over the XF300 is that it's very small.
In 90% of the things I have filmed that image quality is next to impossible to tell the difference to the XF300.
I would serious have a look at the XF100.

Hope that helps. (y)
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Amazing. Thanks mate. I'm gonna look at that now.

I hear what you're saying about the AF but tbh, I'm not really that bothered. I prefer manual anyway. What are they both like in terms of expanding the depth of field?

Also, bit concerned about the lack of being able to take photos...
 
SamsEdition said:
Jeees... that is very nice.

That's on a GH2 right?

Definitely gonna look into this a bit more...
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Sure was. He used a Voigtlander Nokton 25mm m4/3 0.95 lens. It's a stunning combination.

Here's some work Philip Bloom has shot with the same combo:

http://vimeo.com/17062701

http://vimeo.com/17245744

And this guy has done lots of very good work using the GH2:

http://vimeo.com/sebfarges

As an example:

http://vimeo.com/27365630

When it comes to video, the GH2 has been wiping the floor with cameras costing many times more and holding its own with cameras costing £10,000! Search google for 'zacuto shootout' to see just how well the GH2 fairs against some serious competition.

I like the fact that I can take it anywhere and it is very inconspicuous when you are filming video. I shot a wedding for a friend as a favour and it was great, as I managed to get some nice candid shots, as people weren't playing to the man with the big video camera.
 
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MarcM said:
Sure was. He used a Voigtlander Nokton 25mm m4/3 0.95 lens. It's a stunning combination.

Here's some work Philip Bloom has shot with the same combo:

http://vimeo.com/17062701

http://vimeo.com/17245744

Ant this guy has done lots of very good work using the GH2:

http://vimeo.com/sebfarges

As an example:

http://vimeo.com/27365630

When it comes to video, the GH2 has been wiping the floor with cameras costing many times more and holding its own with cameras costing £10,000! Search google for 'zacuto shootout' to see just how well the GH2 fairs against some serious competition.

I like the fact that I can take it anywhere and it is very inconspicuous when you are filming video. I shot a wedding for a friend as a favour and it was great, as I managed to get some nice candid shots, as people weren't playing to the man with the big video camera.
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Thanks man. This is really useful!

It does look beautiful. Is it easy to use in comparison to other DSLRs? (Obviously it's not going to be a big stretch but there must be some comparisons you can draw?)

Also, as a side note, how is it for taking photos?

That's a really big help mate. Thank you!
 
SamsEdition said:
Thanks man. This is really useful!
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You're welcome! As you can see, it's a little gem :)


SamsEdition said:
It does look beautiful. Is it easy to use in comparison to other DSLRs? (Obviously it's not going to be a big stretch but there must be some comparisons you can draw?)

Also, as a side note, how is it for taking photos?
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Not being by any stretch of the imagination a pro', I can only compare it to my previous camera which was a Nikon D60. It's never going to touch a 5D or any other full frame body, but with a good prime lens, it can produce excellent results. Panny's 20mm f/1.7 pancake lens is a good, reasonably priced option.

I'll see if I can sign up to a photo hosting site over the weekend to post some examples for you.
 
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It's major advantage over the XF300 is that it's very small.
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I'd call that a disadvantage.

They're awesome compact and make incredible pictures - but for most stuff, it's a pain having a small camera that you've gotta wave around in front of you - this is one of the main reasons that a lot of DSLR operating looks so terrible, and is one of the definite benefits of having a 'real' camera like the xf300, ex3 or going higher, HPX3100 or the sonys.

OP: Find work. For your fist 5 jobs, rent what you need. It'll cost you £500 in rental over those jobs, yes, (I'd suggest DVTalent for cheap rental in London, generous packages and flexible terms), but it'll give you a good idea of a) the kind of work you're getting and b) the equipment that will be best for you. You can then look at investing appropriately. Shallow depth of field isn't the be all and end all, 1/3" chips are fine for most corporate stuff...

I, and almost every video cam op that I know, uses different cameras for different jobs, they all have their appropriate uses. Whether a GoPro or a C300 suits your needs best, before investing, you should have a good idea of what works and what doesn't. Oh, and then leave twice what you can afford to spend on sound gear, to spend on sound gear...
 
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itsdavedotnet said:
I'd call that a disadvantage.

They're awesome compact and make incredible pictures - but for most stuff, it's a pain having a small camera that you've gotta wave around in front of you - this is one of the main reasons that a lot of DSLR operating looks so terrible, and is one of the definite benefits of having a 'real' camera like the xf300, ex3 or going higher, HPX3100 or the sonys.
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That's a good point actually and I do agree with it. The size advantage of the XF100 for me comes when I want something that is easy to carry and unobtrusive. On a tripod it's ok for stability but handheld no where near as steady as the XF300.
I've shot video in places like Iceland where I had to hike several hours with camera and tripod which would have been a nightmare with the 300 and my big tripod. Also when I shoot aviation being unobtrusive can be really useful as the XF300 looks like you are some kind of TV people whereas the 100 just looks normal.

But yeah I do agree that for what the OP is going to use it for the XF300's size would probably be an advantage. (y)
 
SamsEdition said:
Amazing. Thanks mate. I'm gonna look at that now.

I hear what you're saying about the AF but tbh, I'm not really that bothered. I prefer manual anyway. What are they both like in terms of expanding the depth of field?

Also, bit concerned about the lack of being able to take photos...
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The depth of field is not like you will get from a DSLR and a fast lens. When zoomed all the way in then yes you do get quite a narrow DOF but at the wide end you don't really. If that is important to you then it may not be ideal.

The XF100 doesn't shoot at 60 fps. At it's highest bitrate it shoots at 50i or 25p.
Is there a reason why you need 60fps? 50 and 25 are the standard PAL/UK broadcast framerates.


My brother shoots mountain biking videos and he uses a GH2. He is very happy with it. It might be well worth considering especially because you can pick them up used pretty cheaply now so you could have a go and sell it on if you don't like it. Stills picture quality from it seems pretty good too. Obviously it's not a patch on a 5D mkIII but it's a fraction of the price. (y)
 
EMA747 said:
The depth of field is not like you will get from a DSLR and a fast lens. When zoomed all the way in then yes you do get quite a narrow DOF but at the wide end you don't really. If that is important to you then it may not be ideal.

The XF100 doesn't shoot at 60 fps. At it's highest bitrate it shoots at 50i or 25p.
Is there a reason why you need 60fps? 50 and 25 are the standard PAL/UK broadcast framerates.
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Overcranking at higher fps for slomo extreme sports presumably
 
I shoot with a DSLR, albeit a D7000, and aside from the peculiarities of each model's controls, they have a place in filming.

However, as already mentioned, there are drawbacks to using a DSLR specifically for filming; audio being one, and the other being AF.

I split my work 50/50 between stills and video, shooting magazine features and filming featurettes for web and app use. The featurettes are usually 2-4mins so are probably smaller projects than what you're aiming for.

The obvious benefit for me with a DSLR is I can A) use my existing lens system to give me a lot of coverage, and B) I can quickly flip between stills shooting and video, so it's a very portable and flexible piece of kit. You've not said if stills play a major part in what you're doing so I'm guessing you'll predominantly be shooting video...

I've learned to wok round the foibles of the camera; I manually focus, I know when I can get away with recording audio and when I'll have to either overdub or add in music, and I know that ultimately the IQ will be lower than something like an XF300, which we use at work for corporate work.

But I made the decision and so far it's worked because I've retained a lightweight set-up that carrying a seperate video camera didn't allow.

One of the key disadvantages of DSLR audio recoding is the lack of audio monitoring. It's starting to feature now on some models (D600 and 5D3) but how good it is compared to a dedicated video camera is something only those with experience of both can comment on.
 
One of the key disadvantages of DSLR audio recoding is the lack of audio monitoring. It's starting to feature now on some models (D600 and 5D3) but how good it is compared to a dedicated video camera is something only those with experience of both can comment on.
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Fine on the D800. Bit fiddly, as expected, but yeah... works.


Tbh, dslrs will never ever be a 'good' solution - but they are a very cost effective and versatile one.
 
itsdavedotnet said:
....they are a very cost effective and versatile one.
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I think that's the key - if you have a stack of lenses then a video-enabled DSLR make that system even more versatile, but choosing a £1500 camera and lens over a £1500 dedicated video camera might not be the most suitable option if your sole role is filming
 
I'll be filming and shooting photos so yeah, the versatility is definitely something that is drawing me to it.

I'm also looking into getting a Beachtech to help with the audio monitor/recording problem.

Sound investment or will I be out of date in a short few years?
 
The new Panasonic GH3 might also be worth a serious look. The GH2 is currently THE best at video and the GH3 should top it. Useful features like focus peaking would be very useful for focusing. My XF100/300 has it and I use it all the time.
 
If you are shooting in low light you may want to look at this comparison between the Black Magic Cinema Camera and the 5Dlll. It's also a bit cheaper

OK the BMCC won't shoot stills but it does handle low light very well and shoots in 12 bit RAW as an option. May be a bit overkill for what you want , but maybe worth considering

http://nofilmschool.com/2012/09/blackmagic-cinema-camera-compared-to-5d-mark-iii/
 
EMA747 said:
The new Panasonic GH3 might also be worth a serious look. The GH2 is currently THE best at video and the GH3 should top it. Useful features like focus peaking would be very useful for focusing. My XF100/300 has it and I use it all the time.
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+1

Looking forward to trying it. Has audio monitoring and potentially clean HDMI too.
 
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