Shooting RAW??

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Name
Donna
Edit My Images
Yes
Tell me everything!
I've not done it before, is it better or not?
Do I set the camera up the same I.e for sun or clouds etc?
Can I edit raw in lightroom 3?
 
Just do it. Leave white balance on Auto and you can change the setting frame by frame as part of your workflow on your 'puter.
Better in the sense of having much more "editability" for your images. :-)
I know nothing of Lightroom 3.
 
Yes you can edit in LR. Thats pretty much what the progam is for. You can make multiple edits of one RAW, but never actually change the RAW image, so you always have it to go back to.

Leave the WB on auto. Change it in LR. Dont need sharpening or picture styles or any of that. You do it all in LR.
 
A friend patiently persuaded me over a long period to shoot RAW, I eventually switched to JPG/RAW . . . Never looked back, although I still shoot JPG/RAW as an insurance . . . when I look at it, why?? . . . I still like to think I have set my 'out of camera' image right . . . but, yes, IMHO RAW is best.

CJS
 
A friend patiently persuaded me over a long period to shoot RAW, I eventually switched to JPG/RAW . . . Never looked back, although I still shoot JPG/RAW as an insurance . . . when I look at it, why?? . . . I still like to think I have set my 'out of camera' image right . . . but, yes, IMHO RAW is best.

CJS

We ought ask the OP which setting she's using - Prog/Av/Tv/hopefully not full auto?:shrug::thinking:
I've just shifted my brain out of Av and Tv into Manual mode, especially for manual lenses.:rules:
 
I had the beta version of LR3 and it would do Pentax (.pef) and Canon (.cr2) RAW. I would be surprised if it would not do whatever the 450D uses.

You can download a 30 day trial from Adobe.
 
Can I ask why you shot jpegraw ?

I do my first session preview on the computer in JPG, gives me a good general feeling of whats there? Plus as I said, I'm old fashioned and like to feel that an out of camera shot was generally acceptable, I spent a lot of time getting the in camera presets to 'my taste' as an untampered shot . . . just me being me :shrug:

A JPG is also a guide to what I might like the re worked RAW to look like, bit like an artist doing a drawing and then going back to the studio to do a painting, a memory jog?

. . . some album shot are just memories, never to be seen by anyone else, nothing special to anyone accept me, a JPG is fine for such instances. Its my personal view, I never worry about running out of SD card, especially with modern large cards, and one has always got spares . . . :thumbs:

ET
 
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I do my first session preview on the computer in JPG, gives me a good general feeling of whats there? Plus as I said, I'm old fashioned and like to feel that an out of camera shot was generally acceptable, I spent a lot of time getting the in camera presets to 'my taste' as an untampered shot . . . just me being me :shrug:

A JPG is also a guide to what I might like the re worked RAW to look like, bit like an artist doing a drawing and then going back to the studio to do a painting, a memory jog?

. . . some album shot are just memories, never to be seen by anyone else, nothing special to anyone accept me, a JPG is fine for such instances. Its my personal view, I never worry about running out of SD card, especially with modern large cards, and one has always got spares . . . :thumbs:

ET

Thanks for explaning :thumbs:
 
When you shoot JPEGs, you are also shooting Raw. The image always starts out as a Raw file, and it always ends up as a JPEG for final output eventually.

The difference is, with an in-camera JPEG, the camera does the processing immediately according to the pre-sets applied - picture styles (sharpness, contrast, saturation, colour tone), noise reduction, colour balance, vignetting, CA reduction, highlight tone etc etc. Then the Raw is deleted, unless you have chosen to shoot both Raw and JPEG (which I do).

If you get everything right before you take the picture, and there is a lot of control available - and new cameras are adding stuff all the time - then there is no point in doing it all over again yourself in post processing. That's how I try to work, and actually I hardly ever bother with the Raw, because I've already got what I want straight out of the box (but it's there just in case).

The big advantage of working on the Raw file is that the range of adjustment available is more extensive, should you need it. But it's not the get out of jail free card that some people seem to think it is.
 
Use RAW for sure. It's your digital negative. I cannot remember the last time I used jpeg. Loads of flexibility when it comes to editing. Try it, you won't look back!
 
.. .. .. and it shouldn't take any longer to edit a raw in Lightroom than it would to edit a jpeg.
 
Much more flexibility in Lightroom with RAW! But you may need extra memory cards as they files are a lot larger!

Indeed - even running 8GB CF I can only get 300 ish RAWS on one card v about 700 - 800 JPEG!!!
 
Have you actually confirmed that? My D3 says I can get 788 on a 16Gb card but in reality I get around 1100.
 
Have you actually confirmed that? My D3 says I can get 788 on a 16Gb card but in reality I get around 1100.

Hmmmm - no I have never actually counted - guilty of believing the display to be absolute :lol:
I guess it will change dependant on the data recorded in each image.
Out of interest, do you shoot in 12 or 14bit?
 
I normally shoot 12 bit lossless compressed - so the file size changes slightly depending on the content of the picture. This is what makes it impossible for the camera to guess exactly how many pictures it can fit on the card. I don't often fill up a card - but if I'm away from base for a week or so - I can easily get onto the second card - but that's 1200+ pictures probably.
 
Syd said:
Hmmmm - no I have never actually counted - guilty of believing the display to be absolute :lol:
I guess it will change dependant on the data recorded in each image.
Out of interest, do you shoot in 12 or 14bit?



I shoot 14 bit lossless compressed and the display always underetimates how many shots I will get.
 
I recently switched to RAW, having shot JPEG for years. And I now wonder why I never done it earlier.

Of course, I know the answer to that. I thought it would be a pain. It really isn't..

In fact with the extra control you have over the RAW files, it can be quicker to get your processing right. The only downside for myself is that I need to upgrade my CF Card, as I start running out of room very quickly.
 
I use a 8GB card on my D700. Its says 280 shots on the LCD, but Ive taken well over 300 before now. Ive never actually filled that card up.
 
The remaining image count on the camera always underestimates, sometimes quite significantly. :eek:

My camera can give upto about 13MB RAW files, though most are smaller than that as obviously the amount of detail in the image alters the size of the files. So you just divide the size of your memory card by the average, or maximum size, of your files. The images remaining is recalculated as you shoot till obviously it gets totally accurate by telling you you have one image left. ;) :lol:

When I put an empty 8GB CF card into my camera it tells me I have space for 385 images, yet dividing 8GB by 13MB gives me about 615 images. That's quite a large underestimation. :eek: And also, because I have two cards in my camera, and even though I have two in the camera it only shows me what it thinks is left on one of the cards. :shrug:
 
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Not all RAW files are the same size. When the card is empty, the camera takes a guess as to what size they are going to be, and works out how many it can take based on that. As you take more and more pictures, the camera looks at them, averages the size and makes a more accurate calculation.

I am not sure why they all seem to underestimate, but I would guess that most people would be much happier if for example, it said 250 but you could get 300 on a card than they would be if it started at 300 and went down to 250. ;)
 
For me the advantage of shooting raw is the flexibility in post processing, its having the negative rather than working with an already processed image. The other advantage is quality, as the camera records more information in a raw file than a typical jpeg.
By the way you dont need to spend money on Lightroom which is aimed more toward the professional user, Elements contains a very competent and easy to use organiser and raw editor.
 
Playing a little bit of devils advocate here;

You take an image of say for example a sunset. You have chosen an appropriate mode on the camera, maybe set a custom white balance, selected an appropriate ISO and set the exposure as best you can. The camera is set to record the image as RAW + JPEG (highest quality).

You then download the files to your computer, which looks the best? The JPEG.

You have to open the RAW file in a converter before you can print it or mail it to someone. So you open it, tweak some sliders, run noise reduction, export to JPEG and which looks better now? It all depends on how good you are with the RAW conversion and remember you have to do that for every file and in that time you could do some PP on the JPEG to further improve that.

“But I can batch process RAW’s”. Of course you can, but, all batch processing is doing is exactly what the camera RAW to JPEG conversion does, are your settings better? Is Lightrooms reverse engineered noise reduction algorithm better than Canons?

Is RAW really a lazy solution? You don’t need to find out what the JPEG settings in your camera do, you don’t need to evaluate the scene fully. You can snap away in RAW, getting things about right because you can sort it out in Lightroom later.

I know there are some theoretical benefits to using RAW, but in practice are the printed images noticeably and consistently better from a ‘developed’ RAW original than a JPEG?

Taken to an extreme, if the aim is ultimate detail and tonal range then shouldn’t we all be shooting slide film?
 
So JPEG looks better than RAW when taken straight out of the camera? If that's the case I might switch back to JPEG as I'm not at the level where I feel I really know what I'm doing in lightroom yet. I've just been importing then exporting straight out into JPEG.
 
If you are exporting to JPEG using a preset, then you are just substituting your cameras built in conversion for a Lightroom built in conversion. Shoot some images RAW + JPEG, run the conversion and see which you like the best. Have a play with the settings in your camera to see what effect they have.

The advantage of shooting RAW is that you will always have the RAW file should you wish to go back and tweak. Theoretically there is more information in the RAW so more flexibility.

If you have the space and aren’t shooting rapid bursts then RAW + JPEG would seem to offer the best of both worlds.
 
If you are exporting to JPEG using a preset, then you are just substituting your cameras built in conversion for a Lightroom built in conversion. Shoot some images RAW + JPEG, run the conversion and see which you like the best. Have a play with the settings in your camera to see what effect they have.

The advantage of shooting RAW is that you will always have the RAW file should you wish to go back and tweak. Theoretically there is more information in the RAW so more flexibility.

If you have the space and aren’t shooting rapid bursts then RAW + JPEG would seem to offer the best of both worlds.

Exactly :)

Choosing between Raw and JPEG used to be a big question because memory cards were £100 for 1gb only a few years ago - now £20 for 8gb. So shooting both Raw and JPEG seems like a no-brainer today.

I try to get the JPEG right in-camera and use that 90% of the time, but the Raw is always there if I accidentally snap a masterpiece that has a bit more potential than the in-camera processing has delivered. You can go back to it years from now, when you have the post processing software and skills - not that it's hard, and Canon's free DPP Raw software is very good.

These days, I think it mostly boils down to this - do you enjoy messing about with the computer? If you do, Raw is great; if you don't, then take care and shoot JPEG. Most of the time it makes no difference to the result.
 
Playing a little bit of devils advocate here;

Nowt wrong with that, as long as you say and not just ****** stir. ;) :lol:

You take an image of say for example a sunset. You have chosen an appropriate mode on the camera, maybe set a custom white balance, selected an appropriate ISO and set the exposure as best you can. The camera is set to record the image as RAW + JPEG (highest quality).

You then download the files to your computer, which looks the best? The JPEG.

If that works for you, then carry on. :thumbs:

You have to open the RAW file in a converter before you can print it or mail it to someone. So you open it, tweak some sliders, run noise reduction, export to JPEG and which looks better now? It all depends on how good you are with the RAW conversion and remember you have to do that for every file and in that time you could do some PP on the JPEG to further improve that.

As with any editing software, you need to use it to get better with it, if you choose not to, then :shrug: I would say most images benefit from some editing, and the amount of editing needed to convert a RAW image to Jpeg is exaggerated, as if you brighten, sharpen maybe a contrast adjustment to your Jpegs, then you are doing a similar amount of 'work' as you may do on the average RAW file. And you don't have to edit every RAW file, just as you don't edit every Jpeg, should you edit.

But if you just print straight from your camera, then RAW is more work, I agree. ;)

“But I can batch process RAW’s”. Of course you can, but, all batch processing is doing is exactly what the camera RAW to JPEG conversion does, are your settings better? Is Lightrooms reverse engineered noise reduction algorithm better than Canons?

It isn't doing exactly as the camera is doing when converting from RAW to Jpeg, the processes may be similar, but the technicalities are different.
Does Canon, (or whoever) know the correct settings for each image, or do they just put general settings on each image? Maybe if you use a picture style you are giving it an idea, but it is the same settings for each image, regardless of content.

Is the processing in the camera as powerful as your computer? I hope not.

Is the the processing in the camera locked at the time of manufacture? The very rare firmware update aside (which generally fixes camera function problems, rather than updating image processing), yes. Hopefully whatever RAW editing software you use would get better over time. I know Adobe Camera Raw has changed significantly over the years, and because of that I can go back to old RAW files and re-edit them to take advantage of the new software. The Noise Reduction in the newest version is a particular improvement over previous versions. That Jpeg taken with and older camera years ago would not be able to have the same amount of improvement imho.

Is RAW really a lazy solution? You don’t need to find out what the JPEG settings in your camera do, you don’t need to evaluate the scene fully. You can snap away in RAW, getting things about right because you can sort it out in Lightroom later.

I don't think anyone says be lazy when taking an image, apart from the odd 'you don't need to set the WB' aside. To get the maximum flexibility shoot in RAW, and edit with the Manufacturer's own software which will render the RAW with the same settings as the camera would, but would give you the opportunity to improve if you thought you could, as you can change the camera setting which were being applied. For most people though, they would have image editing software to edit, which although may not display the RAW as the camera would have, is close enough to start from.

I know there are some theoretical benefits to using RAW, but in practice are the printed images noticeably and consistently better from a ‘developed’ RAW original than a JPEG?

'Consistantly better'? Depends on the image, and the person doing the conversion. But the potential to be a lot better? Yes imho. :)

Taken to an extreme, if the aim is ultimate detail and tonal range then shouldn’t we all be shooting slide film?

Maybe for tonal range and detail, but not for flexibility. The exposure had to be exact, and colour capture needed to be corrected through the use of filters as far as I'm aware. Though I only shot a few rolls of slide film 20 odd years ago to see what it was like, so I could be wrong.


RAW may not be for everyone, but at least consider the possibilities before you make your choice. That's why I love threads like this every so often, to show people different side of the 'argument'. :D
 
Knock that crap off Grant, ive edited your signature and removed several posts.
 
Nowt wrong with that, as long as you say and not just ****** stir. ;) :lol:

Certainly not my intention, I was trying to balance the thread a little.

Every time you see a RAW thread the majority come out with the same old RAW is better rhetoric without really substantiating it. It comes across as though RAW is some magic format which suddenly produces great pictures, sure it might give some additional flexibility over JPEG depending on the dynamic range of the image (but not always), but if your picture is rubbish RAW or JPEG matters not one jot. There are certainly far more important things for me to worry about before pressing the shutter than which file mode the camera is set to!!!

FWIW I use RAW for macro, because I will be adjusting all (any) keepers in DPP or ACR, and mainly RAW + JPEG for others and similar to HoppyUK, probably go back to the RAW for 1 in 20 (maybe) and that’s mainly to fix my own errors in exposure.
 
Certainly not my intention, I was trying to balance the thread a little.

I didn't think it was your intention judging by your post.


RAW conversion isn't something that can produce great pictures, but it can give more scope for enhancement and problem recovery. If you know how to convert the file. Hopefully better than the camera could have. ;) :lol:
 
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I started shooting RAW and haven't been back since - I do most of my editing in Adobe Camera RAW as it gives you loads of options to fine tune your image including of course the useful ability to change the white balance if it's off. The bigger files are worth the freedom in my opinion.
 
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