Sky Arts Master of Photography TV prog

I've been watching the series after recording it. What struck me is their 'mentor' tell them what he thinks is good, or works, and then they show something completely different as their 'final' choice and get slated. What's the point of a mentor if you are going to ignore what they say??
 
Photodiva said:
I've been watching the series after recording it. What struck me is their 'mentor' tell them what he thinks is good, or works, and then they show something completely different as their 'final' choice and get slated. What's the point of a mentor if you are going to ignore what they say??
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A mentor is a guide, not a ruler, by making their own choices they are showing their own input and lastly dont forget that these things are edited to make good viewing

MIke
 
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Phil V said:
It can also be judged subjectively.
You wouldn't dream of viewing a Rembrandt only from a technical viewpoint.
We make pictures, they're supposed to communicate. It really should have little to do with what can be measured.

We don't judge TVs programs on whether they make use of the screen properly or how many fps they're shot in. We judge on content.

I despair that people have difficulty understanding this.
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Byker28i said:
Sorry J40ADF I agree with Phil, it's about the image, not the technical points or rule of thirds etc.
This is being judged as an art contest, with photography as a medium and quite rightly so, which is why you had a technically perfect landscape lose this week. It was a great image, technically perfect, but it evoked a response of, 'nice picture and colours', it didnt hold the attention for long.

Which is why GAbrielle's image of the fallen and standing trees attracted attention, it made you think about more, look around the image, living and dead, fallen and upright.

I was annoyed with Laura, the image of her against the black boulders was stunning and so much more than the image she presented, which was a great idea but missed the punch. The boulders looked like a close up of pebbles, but then the tiny figure in a ball gave great feedback to the size of the landscape and was in great contrast both colour and scale.

Marta also had stronger images, but took the judges brief about putting oneself in the landscape, copying Laura to an extent, whos had success doing this in other rounds.
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Don't despair @Phil V this is a normal emotion on this subject ;)

This is exactly the kind of discussion that ensued (as far as I remember) when whilst at college we discussed the subject;
"Is photography an Art or a Science?"

There is no definitive answer and I think the conclusion most people come to is that it is absolutely neither an Art or a Science.

In the context of the show though the three judges are asked to judge the contestants on photographs created from the brief they have been set. From there on in, it is the image that all three judges agree that they prefer. It's a subjective choice.
Three different judges may well have other opinions.

So, how do you judge something like this subjectively when at the end of the day, beauty is in the eye of the beholder?
 
J40ADF said:
So, how do you judge something like this subjectively when at the end of the day, beauty is in the eye of the beholder?
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It is indeed, but we can hang some objectivity on that because not all beholders viewpoints are equal.

It's a common mistake of the Internet age to equate 'everyone is entitled to an opinion' with 'all opinions are equal'.

3 highly experienced critics subjective view of an image carries more weight than 'Joe down the pub'. And to put an even more objective slant on it. Those 3 judges will be awarding quite a high value prize.

It's simple, and in my experience only people more concerned with the philosophical debate than the facts don't grasp how straightforward it actually is.

The answer to art vs science? It can definitely be either but intrinsically is neither.

I can create art or science with a camera, but mostly I just make pictures.
 
I'm still struggling with the brief they set each week. They're extremely subjective and each judge will have a different view of what it means. However, I listened very carefully to it this week and wondered what I'd do given the brief. It was so wide they pretty much said, 'anything goes'. My conclusion was that they wanted something more unusual and to be 'wowed' but that's hardly surprising. For example, Gabrielle's tree could have been taken anywhere in northern europe and didn't smack of Ireland to me.The right person went because he took a pretty picture, a postcard shot, it was rather like millions of images you can see on't web. He didn't think outside the box. The others at least tried. The girls were a big disappointment I thought this week. Naked (or pretending to be) in a landscape. Even the blonde lady's rock shot has been done to death. She tried something slightly different with the one she chose but I didn't feel it worked as the rest of the image was weak.

I personally found Rupert's lip wobble cringeworthy and very X-Factoresque. I liked his image though. For such an obviously expensive production I find the (programme) editing awful. Why do we need to be so cutting and unpleasant to each other all the time. All of these photographers are talented and should be encouraged and nurtured not rudely destroyed. Humans generally learn much better with coaxing and encouragement, why does a 'talent' show have to be harsh and hurtful? Why do we find that entertaining? Fair critique is one thing, arrogance and rudeness is another. The older guy's quote I found funny and true however so contradict myself there!

It's an interesting series but could be so much better. I'm not sure who they think their audience is/will be and maybe that's part of the problem. I'd suggest it's generally those with an interest in the arts or photography generally and therefore could be much better put together, longer and include more info on pic editing and shot ideas etc. and less on the silly X-Factor crap.

Am I also the only one who finds the head judges (speech) delivery annoying? It sounds like he's reading his intro's etc and has only just learned how to read!
 
mike weeks said:
A mentor is a guide, not a ruler, by making their own choices they are showing their own input and lastly dont forget that these things are edited to make good viewing

MIke
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Agreed. But seemingly ignoring guidance has often been their downfall. My grandfather used to say "if you are not going to listen to my advice, don't ask for it".
 
Well, of course it is good that they make their own decisions but can't help but noticing when they ignore what we see of the mentors, it seems that they come unstuck. As for the rude judge, I agree entirely with Rich; being rude is totally unnecessary. Critique can be delivered in constructive ways. He must be half full kind of guy. I also think the X factor approach to something like this is misguided and perhaps, if this survives to a second series, they will revise their strategies. And the wooden, patronising delivery of the MC may well be moderated. Isabella R made me laugh when she asked if there was something wrong with the task when they all "failed" to deliver. I think the next one to go maybe the one who started copying her rival's nude poses. Surprised she didn't cop it for that alone. Anyway, I am still enjoying it even with its flaws. Good to see a photography prog; strange there is so little when so many people are in to photography.
 
I really liked Laura's image and along with Rupert I think she is the standout person. The other girl who was nude on the rock is very weak and my bet to go next week.

I do find the judges and most of the mentors pretentious tw**s - Far too arty-farty. The guest this week... I thought his images a bit dull once you had seen one.

That said, I do enjoy watching this programme!
 
Rich_Ellis said:
I'm still struggling with the brief they set each week. They're extremely subjective and each judge will have a different view of what it means. However, I listened very carefully to it this week and wondered what I'd do given the brief. It was so wide they pretty much said, 'anything goes'. My conclusion was that they wanted something more unusual and to be 'wowed' but that's hardly surprising. For example, Gabrielle's tree could have been taken anywhere in northern europe and didn't smack of Ireland to me.The right person went because he took a pretty picture, a postcard shot, it was rather like millions of images you can see on't web. He didn't think outside the box. The others at least tried. The girls were a big disappointment I thought this week. Naked (or pretending to be) in a landscape. Even the blonde lady's rock shot has been done to death. She tried something slightly different with the one she chose but I didn't feel it worked as the rest of the image was weak.

I personally found Rupert's lip wobble cringeworthy and very X-Factoresque. I liked his image though. For such an obviously expensive production I find the (programme) editing awful. Why do we need to be so cutting and unpleasant to each other all the time. All of these photographers are talented and should be encouraged and nurtured not rudely destroyed. Humans generally learn much better with coaxing and encouragement, why does a 'talent' show have to be harsh and hurtful? Why do we find that entertaining? Fair critique is one thing, arrogance and rudeness is another. The older guy's quote I found funny and true however so contradict myself there!

It's an interesting series but could be so much better. I'm not sure who they think their audience is/will be and maybe that's part of the problem. I'd suggest it's generally those with an interest in the arts or photography generally and therefore could be much better put together, longer and include more info on pic editing and shot ideas etc. and less on the silly X-Factor crap.

Am I also the only one who finds the head judges (speech) delivery annoying? It sounds like he's reading his intro's etc and has only just learned how to read!
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I'm not sure if intelligence has anything to do with it or not, but I tend to agree with you. I want to learn from the experience and grow, not just listen to strong opinions with no backing to them. We see very little of the mentor, which is also a shame in my opinion as I would like to see more in depth discussion and decisions on editing made by the photographers and even why they have decided to go against the mentors advice if they have. I would like to know which camera they used, what lighting they used and the settings for the final photo.

Unlike the formula they have chosen to adopt for their series, we tend to want to be able to acknowledge more than just raw talent, as there is skill involved too.

I quite liked understanding who Robot was a little better, but perhaps it was a little too long winded given all the other things that could have been included that would have been more interesting.

I still am really enjoying the programme, but I wish they had thought a little more carefully about the kind of audience they would attract and what they may wish to get from it.
 
Poppypix said:
I still am really enjoying the programme, but I wish they had thought a little more carefully about the kind of audience they would attract and what they may wish to get from it.
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I think the know it all pompous attitude will put off most normal viewers and will just be watched by keen togs.
 
Thought Rupert was poor this week, thought he was for the chop.
Unfortunate for Laura, after she stripped off having been told to lose the bodice last week. Wasn't sure that home should evoke such strong sad feelings. Agree with Martha tryptic, thought that very good.
 
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I think Laura was one trick pony, Rut nailed it in her comment about her narcissism, obsession with herself (IMHO). I too find Oliviero a bit rude. It's not so much his negative comments it's his lack of explanation to understand his PoV that I find annoying...maybe this is down to the programme editing

I thought Marta was strong this week, clearly the best she has done, but a little frustrated she got this far. I think she saved herself at the last opportunity tbh

The whole "x-factor" style I don't really have an issue with, it's a competition and there are judges, therefore inevitably subjective views
 
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I thought this week the judges were spot on. Rupert's efforts were poor but I'm glad he stayed as he's had some very good weeks.

I agree with the comments about Laura, whilst her images are very good technically they do show her to be a narcissist. She completely missed the point of the challenge. However as an artist she is great, she has her style. Right from the off she said that she likes to put herself in the frame. All of the guest togs have had their own style too and how would they fare outside of their comfort zone. Hats off to her for her dedication to "her" style.

Marta.......absolutely spot on this week, all 3 images worked both individually and as a set.
 
Yeah I think this one was the best so far in regards to understanding the judges comments etc. The guest was thoughtful and kind for a change and I think, generally positive towards the contestants which made for better viewing.
Marta nailed it, I think Jan did too, the pain (mental) he suffers due to his injury and the fact he's now living his dream through hope with his daughter was easily seen in his three images, however, he didn't explain it like that which was a shame. I have to say I'm not sure I 'got' Gabrielle's images. In fact, they said nothing to me at all but the fact that ALL the judges did left me thinking it was just me so was happy to go with it.
Laura was the only one i disagreed with them about. The lady judge mentioned hiding with mirrors and cameras etc but I think that's her whole issue. It's her problem and I thought she spelt that out quite clearly with those images. However, she was a bit predictable and included herself in everything she's done including these three pics and that said nothing about her family or home life. Ultimately, she was clinging on anyway so had to go.
Rupert was the weakest this week by a mile. He gave nothing of himself at all and grumpy judge nailed it with his comments about them being purely documentary. He might have been a bit hamstrung by the fact his wife/partner obviously was not happy being on screen, either the pics or the documentary filming so that could have left him floundering?
 
I agree Rich.
Last week the judges did say to Laura that they did no want any more of her nude style images as she had already done that to death.
Jan was the strongest IMO, far better than Gabrielle who seemed to have just a jumble, perhaps it's an Italian thing as the Italian judge loved it.
Rupert, well they did say they wanted to see home sweet home and what they were about. Anyway, his previous good work probably saved him.
 
I think Rupert's strong weeks running up to this one saved him TBH, I don't think the decision was purely based on this week's task otherwise he'd have walked for sure IMO. Glad he's still in though.
 
This weeks show was a good one. For me, less photographers and guest judge who was perceptive rather than 'Shock Jock' made it good viewing.
I think Marta deserved to be star baker ( Sorry wrong show ). I really liked Gabriels finished work. It stuck with me for along time after.
I liked the developing fluid being the middle image. It suggests the passage of childhood to what he is now. Or maybe like grumpy Cappello suggested, it was dumb luck.
A good week, though.
 
I enjoyed the process this Week, but way too many tears and emotions following Robert's last week. It felt a little contrived to me. It was good to see some positivity this week and clear examples of what the judges are looking for. Now the competitors have seen a strong win hopefully they will have a better idea of what to present for the next task.
 
I thought Rupert was lucky not to go but, as has already been pointed out, Laura kept repeating herself. There was no indication in her work that she was at home. I thought Yan's set were much better and they didn't get it.mat least Mr Grumpy said something positive. They seem to think everybody is improving but I think it is the nature of the task and they have been capable all along... I have enjoyed this series though; pity there is only one to go. Hope it comes back.
 
I think this weeks show proved that previous weeks had been over edited.

The failing in the format is that when there's 10 contestants there's not enough time to do the process justice, get down to 5 and there's finally some breathing space.

I hope we get another series, but given the time between first hearing this was happening and it airing (about 3 years) I hope they can sort the next one quicker.
 
I think it is the final next week.
Are we having bets on the winner?
Jan for me but I think Gabrielle may do it.
 
Seanazz said:
I really liked Gabriels finished work. It stuck with me for along time after.
I liked the developing fluid being the middle image. It suggests the passage of childhood to what he is now. Or maybe like grumpy Cappello suggested, it was dumb luck.
A good week, though.
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I think Gabriel's images only worked because of the clever presentation, they flowed from left to right, as did Martha's.
 
Byker28i said:
I think Gabriel's images only worked because of the clever presentation, they flowed from left to right, as did Martha's.
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Martha pulled it out of the bag imo this week, really good series of images. Didn't get Gabriel's, didn't see how they tied together although I did like the first two as images in their own rights.
 
Team Ruppert, but I think it'll come down to whomever blubbers the most........sorry I meant to say whomever shows most emotion in their work.
 
I would be happy with any of them winning but not very keen on Gabriel although he has been quite consistent. In terms of who needs it most, I think it would be great for Yan who seems quite at sea since he lost his dancing career. I did like Rupert's set even though they were more reportage than they wanted.
 
snerkler said:
Martha pulled it out of the bag imo this week, really good series of images. Didn't get Gabriel's, didn't see how they tied together although I did like the first two as images in their own rights.
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I might be reading more into it than was really there but his first picture, it could easily have been him there as a child behind that picture and at that point in his life his world was that courtyard and the activity within it (like the ball) so represented his legs. The middle picture represented his heart and the love he has for his family and the last one represented his life now and how image is his life, gained through pain and hard work (possibly)

For me it gave me more to think about than Martha's which really only had one possible outcome, although very strong images that fitted the brief perfectly. They were both good and good enough to show the weaknesses of the other two.

I hope it isn't the final yet. I'm enjoying it too much.

I'm not sure who I want to win yet. I need more time!!!
 
Poppypix said:
I might be reading more into it than was really there but his first picture, it could easily have been him there as a child behind that picture and at that point in his life his world was that courtyard and the activity within it (like the ball) so represented his legs. The middle picture represented his heart and the love he has for his family and the last one represented his life now and how image is his life, gained through pain and hard work (possibly)

For me it gave me more to think about than Martha's which really only had one possible outcome, although very strong images that fitted the brief perfectly. They were both good and good enough to show the weaknesses of the other two.

I hope it isn't the final yet. I'm enjoying it too much.

I'm not sure who I want to win yet. I need more time!!!
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There's only one more to go I'm afraid.
 
 
 
I've enjoyed it for what it is. Great to see ANY photography-related shows, tbh.

I wish it was UK-based though, with experts known to me.

Also, how come the mentors don't get involved until after they've taken the shots? Would make sense for them to do a pre-brief, no?
 
Sorry, I see others made the same point about mentors.

Anyway, seen the latest show now. Marta's set was brilliantly simple.

The German girl seems v well set up in life. She'll be ok.

Agree about the show being better with fewer togs.

Wonder if the winner will be judged on final task, or entire series?
 
I guess that will be down to the final piece and if it is a clear win or one that is so close between two that they need to look at the whole process. I hope they all come up with strong pieces and make it ultra hard for them to choose. I would like to be able to see more of the process at the end when they make their decisions and critique the work properly. I find it interesting listening to different points of view and how they come to a joint conclusion. Personally I prefer it when there is 3 judges, as it makes for a fairer out come and less possible to be swung by personal bias.
 
Marta was very good this week but had been lucky to stay in. Rupert was poor and disappointed to see Laura go. I liked her images and thought over the series she was better than most.
 
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