So Tottenham burns!

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MartynK said:
you'll find that liberals believe in individual freedom,
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Individual freedom, the right to do what I want to do regardless of all others. EXACTLY why we're in the mess we are.
 
Have the met police or any other police force officially declared it as a riot yet? (Various degrees of disorder, from public disorder, affray, civil unrest through to riot)

If so, some serious implications under Insurance T&C's and specifially the riot act. Effectively in layman's terms, : If Police have declared it a riot it is an admission that they have lost control and therefore any claims for compensation due to loss of property, possessions, goods in stock, etc can be recharged back to the police, instead of the insurer taking the hit.

Therefore the £10's millions mentioned by the ABI spokesman (Likely to be about £400m I am estimating) will ultimately be paid by the government, and then that means taxes increase, and the circle starts again...:lol:
 
Lynton said:
Have the met police or any other police force officially declared it as a riot yet? (Various degrees of disorder, from public disorder, affray, civil unrest through to riot)

If so, some serious implications under Insurance T&C's and specifially the riot act. Effectively in layman's terms, : If Police have declared it a riot it is an admission that they have lost control and therefore any claims for compensation due to loss of property, possessions, goods in stock, etc can be recharged back to the police, instead of the insurer taking the hit.

Therefore the £10's millions mentioned by the ABI spokesman (Likely to be about £400m I am estimating) will ultimately be paid by the government, and then that means taxes increase, and the circle starts again...:lol:
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It's the Riot (Damages) Act from 1886
 
There was a guy talking about the insurance side this morning and if I remember correctly he said that riot is the gathering of 12 or more people for the intention of unlawful activity. He also said that you have to prove that.
 
Lynton said:
Have the met police or any other police force officially declared it as a riot yet? (Various degrees of disorder, from public disorder, affray, civil unrest through to riot)

If so, some serious implications under Insurance T&C's and specifially the riot act. Effectively in layman's terms, : If Police have declared it a riot it is an admission that they have lost control and therefore any claims for compensation due to loss of property, possessions, goods in stock, etc can be recharged back to the police, instead of the insurer taking the hit.

Therefore the £10's millions mentioned by the ABI spokesman (Likely to be about £400m I am estimating) will ultimately be paid by the government, and then that means taxes increase, and the circle starts again...:lol:
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That was being discussed earlier on the radio. Insurance companies are said to be hoping it gets classed as a riot as most of the small print, aparently, specifically excludes riots.

On the other hand, if an individual gets charged with rioting the potential maximum sentence goes to about 10 years. Reception wasn't great in the car though so might have got the duration wrong.
 
Has the muppet answered mine yet ?

For fear of being banned, he has joined a very elite club.
 
Laudrup said:
Nobody may have told you, or you may not have had the opportunity to use them yet, but no contraception is 100% effective. Even a vasectomy or female sterilisation is no guarantee.
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An awful lot of the people we're talking about here get pregnant deliberately or 'semi-deliberately'. I do not believe that their offspring are inevitably the result of honest mistakes or failed contraceptives, but I've heard the excuse used often enough. Too often they are irresponsible, selfish, ignorant, or careless. There is a segment of society, which was described above, who understand that others (the British tax payers) will fund their lifestyle choices and they won't have to worry about the tiresome reality of getting a steady job or paying their way in life. But they will complain that they don't have what they want or need and every one else is to blame.
 
Doddy, the 10 years apparently was the maximum sentance for 1 count of burglary.
 
fracster said:
What about everything else that she claims?

Don`t answer that, I really am losing the will to live with you. When you have a second or two, try living on planet earth and see what is really going on. Speaking as an outsider,what do you really think of the human race?
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You mentioned child benefit for additional children, if keeping an additional child with £13.40 per week is good money to you then I applaud your frugality.
 
Flash In The Pan said:
She shouldn't be having any more bloody kids, all this nonsense about it being a 'right', [PLEASE DON'T TRY TO BYPASS THE SWEAR FILTER].

Oh and this policy of 'limiting' benefit claims to the average wage (currently £25k), another load of crap, the amount of benefit that can be claimed, including housing benefit, should be no more than the minimum wage, that way if you want to fire out kids left right and centre you either need to pay for their upkeep yourself, or sell them for medical experiments......
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I'll vote for you next time round :thumbs:
 
neil_g said:
anyway..

all seems oddly quiet at the moment, BBC isnt really reporting on anything new.. is it the rain or increased police doing the trick :lol:
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Sunny and dry down here, hope that doesnt mean they are on their way ;)
 
Lindsay D said:
An awful lot of the people we're talking about here get pregnant deliberately or 'semi-deliberately'.
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I know of a young 18 yr old girl who used to work in our local fish shop, she has got herself pregnant DELIBERATELY.

I am friends with her brother who is manager of the shop, he actually warned her, verbally and written, and in the end sacked her.

If she had a night out and got herself totally plastered she wouldn't bother getting up and going to work. She sat up til 4-5 in the morning playing online games (she didn't start work till mid-day) and when she was sacked and signed on if she got up late she didn't even bother going to sign on or let them know she wasn't coming in.

She told her brother that she would get a council house because she is an unmarried mother.....:shrug: Her brother is disgusted with her.
 
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Catdaddy said:
It's the Riot (Damages) Act from 1886
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Ta.

1886? Yes I know that is correct, but you'd have thought that would have been repelled in the last 125 yrs!
 
KayJay said:
Sorry , what?
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well lets see, would you like to be labelled a ''nerd''

''They typically appear either to lack confidence or to be indifferent or oblivious to the negative perceptions held of them by others, with the result that they become frequent objects of scorn, ridicule, bullying, and social isolation. Some nerds show a pronounced interest in subjects which others tend to find dull or boring, or just simply too complex and difficult to comprehend, or overly mature for their age, especially topics related to science, mathematics and technology.''
quoted from Wiki

i suggest you think before typing
 
Laudrup said:
You mentioned child benefit for additional children, if keeping an additional child with £13.40 per week is good money to you then I applaud your frugality.
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I suggest that if you belittle someone on this forum, you at least spend a little time getting your facts straight first.

It's not only an additional £13.40 a week for a second child. The claimant may also claim additional income support for that child. I'm not sure of the exact figures, but if memory serves me correctly, it's in the region of £45 a week. So if you have 2 kids, you get an ADDITIONAL £90 a week PLUS child support of about £30 for both children. And then you get your own income support as well.

Like I say, get your facts right.
 
Yardbent said:
well lets see, would you like to be labelled a ''nerd''

''They typically appear either to lack confidence or to be indifferent or oblivious to the negative perceptions held of them by others, with the result that they become frequent objects of scorn, ridicule, bullying, and social isolation. Some nerds show a pronounced interest in subjects which others tend to find dull or boring, or just simply too complex and difficult to comprehend, or overly mature for their age, especially topics related to science, mathematics and technology.''
quoted from Wiki

i suggest you think before typing
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ease up mate i dont think it was a serious post..

christ i get called a nerd/geek on pretty much a daily basis.
 
Lynton said:
Ta.

1886? Yes I know that is correct, but you'd have thought that would have been repelled in the last 125 yrs!
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The only reason I know is cos I just heard it mentioned on the news a little while ago...
 
Laudrup said:
Nobody may have told you, or you may not have had the opportunity to use them yet, but no contraception is 100% effective. Even a vasectomy or female sterilisation is no guarantee.

I suppose you could go down the route of the Roman Catholic Church in Africa and preach abstinence, but it doesn't seem to be working too well.
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It's not 100%, we know, but it's more reliable than having sex. If a person/couple are on benefits and struggling, perhaps they should consider the financial impact another child would have. I ask you again, albeit in a different context, if you blamed Amy Winehouse for making choices that led to her death, why won't you castigate others who suffer because of the bad CHOICES they make?
No weasel words please, just a straight answer.
 
Neil

whilst appreciating your reply

that's it about the www....you ''should'' be more careful about what you post ''in jest'' as humour doesn't always come across from a keyboard

i didn't like the comment - and i said so..............:D
 
Catdaddy said:
I suggest that if you belittle someone on this forum, you at least spend a little time getting your facts straight first.

It's not only an additional £13.40 a week for a second child. The claimant may also claim additional income support for that child. I'm not sure of the exact figures, but if memory serves me correctly, it's in the region of £45 a week. So if you have 2 kids, you get an ADDITIONAL £90 a week PLUS child support of about £30 for both children. And then you get your own income support as well.

Like I say, get your facts right.
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Come back to me with your exact figure and we'll discuss how good it is.
 
AFC said:
How long have you got.....can any of you guys help him out.:lol:
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Yep. From the point where he started being "an oxygen thief!" :lol::lol:
 
2 points I'd like to make.......

1. Riot. S.1 public order act says
"(1)Where 12 or more persons who are present together use or threaten unlawful violence for a common purpose and the conduct of them (taken together) is such as would cause a person of reasonable firmness present at the scene to fear for his personal safety, each of the persons using unlawful violence for the common purpose is guilty of riot."

Now most of this has obviously been committed, the difficulty is the 'common purpose' and the debate will be are these people acting with a common purpose? I'm not sure, still if they get charged with riot or violent disorder the punishment should be similar.

2. Benefits.
I want to state my experiences.
Back in 1998 my mate and I graduated from university - we both did degrees in the same subject (though he did a bit better than me!)
He'd got his then girlfriend pregnant and as a result they got a council house, benefits etc (I remember him telling me the only bill he had to pay was the phone bill)
As we both had the same degree we were looking at the same sort of jobs so would go through the job papers together.
While doing this he decided to work out how much he would have to earn before he 'broke even' on his benefits ie how much he had to earn to make him better off working.
The result? £18000 pa. In 1998.

I admit I don't know the current system, but 13 years ago he had to earn £18000 to break even. Most jobs at the time for graduates had a starting salary of 12k-14k

Where's the incentive to work???

Incidentally he did work, now has his own company and commands a 6 figure salary - of which a large % goes in tax!

Regards

Neil
 
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Laudrup said:
Come back to me with your exact figure and we'll discuss how good it is.
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It would actually be nice if you were to answer peoples questions and join in the conversation rather than cherry pick small pieces of other peoples' posts in order to try to score points (You're losing badly by the way)
 
Yardbent said:
EDIT -- comment removed.... implies you are wrong - which you are not

the issue of South Lanarkshire Private Hire licenses [ like mine] are cross-checked [and also before each renewal] with..........

the Strathclyde Police for outstanding fines/convictions
the Council Tax Offices for overdue payments
and the Benefits Office - for signing on

seems your Council is missing the boat somewhere.......:D
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I accept what you say, one of my sons is a private hire driver in Leeds and I know how heavily regulated it is but...

I'm talking about Bradford here. While my son was waiting for his Private Hire licence to be granted he worked as controller for a private hire firm in Bradford. Of the approx 40 drivers there, only 3 had a licence, the rest were all working under false identities.

If I was to say that this was probably easy because they all have the same colour hair and the same colour face, then I would probably be accused of being racist, but facts are facts. I'm guessing that the private hire drivers who claim benefit at the Jobcentre are claiming under different names to their own.

I stick with what I say - there must be a lot that can be done to stop abuse of the benefits system, if only the people who administer it could be bothered, and the savings would make more money available for genuine cases and save taxpayers money.

Not that I accept for one moment that this public disorder has anything whatever to do with poverty.
 
@ Garry
''If I was to say that this was probably easy because they all have the same colour hair and the same colour face, then I would probably be accused of being racist, but facts are facts.''
.
:lol:...i understand that driving licenses in Glasgow follow the same pattern, in that a real driver takes the test on behalf of, say his brother, who has applied for a UK licenses......:lol:
 
Roadkill_6mm said:
2 points I'd like to make.......

1. Riot. S.1 public order act says
"(1)Where 12 or more persons who are present together use or threaten unlawful violence for a common purpose and the conduct of them (taken together) is such as would cause a person of reasonable firmness present at the scene to fear for his personal safety, each of the persons using unlawful violence for the common purpose is guilty of riot."

Now most of this has obviously been committed, the difficulty is the 'common purpose' and the debate will be are these people acting with a common purpose? I'm not sure, still if they get charged with riot or violent disorder the punishment should be similar.

2. Benefits.
I want to state my experiences.
Back in 1998 my mate and I graduated from university - we both did degrees in the same subject (though he did a bit better than me!)
He'd got his then girlfriend pregnant and as a result they got a council house, benefits etc (I remember him telling me the only bill he had to pay was the phone bill)
As we both had the same degree we were looking at the same sort of jobs so would go through the job papers together.
While doing this he decided to work out how much he would have to earn before he 'broke even' on his benefits ie how much he had to earn to make him better off working.
The result? £18000 pa. In 1998.

I admit I don't know the current system, but 13 years ago he had to earn £18000 to break even. Most jobs at the time for graduates had a starting salary of 12k-14k

Where's the incentive to work???

Incidentally he did work, now has his own company and commands a 6 figure salary - of which a large % goes in tax!

Regards

Neil
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You just answered your own question. You do introduce an interesting point on tax though, look at what tax evasion costs us as a nation every year.
 
Yardbent said:
see earlier post

in the US .................blah blah blah

well maybe a few shot looters would have saved 5 lives here....:shrug:
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What worries me is this vigilantism, ok I can understand the feelings behind why people are out on the street, but a couple of points concern me.

Firstly, if one of these groups catches a looter/rioter what would they do to him/her? Hand them over to the Police or give them a good kicking?

It's going to set a precedent and unless the police move in and try to quash that then it's only a short step to gangs of vigilantes on our streets every night, metering out "justice" for any small infraction that offends their sense of decency.
 
Garry Edwards said:
I accept what you say, one of my sons is a private hire driver in Leeds and I know how heavily regulated it is but...

I'm talking about Bradford here. While my son was waiting for his Private Hire licence to be granted he worked as controller for a private hire firm in Bradford. Of the approx 40 drivers there, only 3 had a licence, the rest were all working under false identities.

If I was to say that this was probably easy because they all have the same colour hair and the same colour face, then I would probably be accused of being racist, but facts are facts. I'm guessing that the private hire drivers who claim benefit at the Jobcentre are claiming under different names to their own.

I stick with what I say - there must be a lot that can be done to stop abuse of the benefits system, if only the people who administer it could be bothered, and the savings would make more money available for genuine cases and save taxpayers money.

Not that I accept for one moment that this public disorder has anything whatever to do with poverty.
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Garry

Why didn't your son report it? :thinking:
 
Graham

i did NOT imply vigilantes...but would suggest the Police Force itself was armed

whilst appreciating some peoples feelings against shooting looters
it absolutely stopped in the wake of the Katrina disaster [ maybe the national Guard there]
 
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