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So Tottenham burns!
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Definitely!!!
This has nowt to do with race or religion. If it's about the guy getting shot then these mindless scumbags need a wakeup call!!!
If we are to believe what's been said in the press, the guy had a gun AND opened fire on police. If members of the local community feel that he was unfairly dealt with then we have a HUGE problem which is a result of the namby-pamby hug a hoodie culture that's been evident since the 90s.
I'm 34 years old, I did most of my growing up in the 80s. I was taught that if I did bad stuff I'd probably end up in prison and be fed bread and water. If I misbehaved at school I'd be dealt with by the teachers, who'd then tell my parents and they'd punish me too. As an example, in infants' school if you kicked anyone you had your shoes taken off you and they were hung by their shoelaces from the ceiling and you didn't go out at lunch and "playtime".
May seem a little Draconian by today's standards but it taught an important lesson which is it certain actions have certain consequences!
Outside of school I knew that there were lots of people in the community who knew my parents and/or family and they wouldn't hesitate to tell my parents if I was up to no good.
It just seems to me that this has been pretty much wiped out of society, people either don't give a flying one or are too scared to report bad behaviour.
My niece is 12 and on the whole not a bad kid but I often get "Uncle Russell, Mum shouted at me and hurt my feelings", when you delve a little bit deeper it turns out she's run up an £80 mobile phone bill but that (in her eyes) doesn't justify my sister in law reading her the riot act. Transfer this "hurt feelings" nonsense to the scrotes that now roam the streets free to do what they want and they feel that they're above the law. Add in non-Caucasians and the race & discrimination card gets played too!!!
I think it's simple, if you really don't like the way this country's run and think it's perfectly acceptable to shoot at police and then go on a rampage destroying homes and businesses........ GO AND FIND SOMEWHERE ELSE TO LIVE!!!
This has nowt to do with race or religion. If it's about the guy getting shot then these mindless scumbags need a wakeup call!!!
If we are to believe what's been said in the press, the guy had a gun AND opened fire on police. If members of the local community feel that he was unfairly dealt with then we have a HUGE problem which is a result of the namby-pamby hug a hoodie culture that's been evident since the 90s.
I'm 34 years old, I did most of my growing up in the 80s. I was taught that if I did bad stuff I'd probably end up in prison and be fed bread and water. If I misbehaved at school I'd be dealt with by the teachers, who'd then tell my parents and they'd punish me too. As an example, in infants' school if you kicked anyone you had your shoes taken off you and they were hung by their shoelaces from the ceiling and you didn't go out at lunch and "playtime".
May seem a little Draconian by today's standards but it taught an important lesson which is it certain actions have certain consequences!
Outside of school I knew that there were lots of people in the community who knew my parents and/or family and they wouldn't hesitate to tell my parents if I was up to no good.
It just seems to me that this has been pretty much wiped out of society, people either don't give a flying one or are too scared to report bad behaviour.
My niece is 12 and on the whole not a bad kid but I often get "Uncle Russell, Mum shouted at me and hurt my feelings", when you delve a little bit deeper it turns out she's run up an £80 mobile phone bill but that (in her eyes) doesn't justify my sister in law reading her the riot act. Transfer this "hurt feelings" nonsense to the scrotes that now roam the streets free to do what they want and they feel that they're above the law. Add in non-Caucasians and the race & discrimination card gets played too!!!
I think it's simple, if you really don't like the way this country's run and think it's perfectly acceptable to shoot at police and then go on a rampage destroying homes and businesses........ GO AND FIND SOMEWHERE ELSE TO LIVE!!!
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I had that idea too
Use the army to heard them into a big pen (exactly like you'd do with animals), give them all the guns and ammo they need when they're in there and let nature take it's course
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I have just got home from my part in these events. I'm grateful to be home with a chilled pint of Bateman's Victory Ale. My role, as a DC, is now in the investigative side. Today, that has involved dealing with some of the prisoners from last night's violence and looting.
The prisoners I dealt with today:
a) Were all criminals already - with records as long as your arm
b) Were all "local residents"
c) Had never heard of "Mark Duggan"
I also took a report from a press photographer who was set upon by a mob (who had been stealing frozen food) and had over £8,000 of equipment stolen from him. The tog was also smashed over the head with a bottle, and given a gut-punch just to show him how angry the "community" are.
I have been to Tottenham and seen the damage. It is immense. We do not need ACPO-approved weasel words of appeasement, nor another truckload of "community leaders" whinging and whining about the deprivation of the area and blaming everybody except the looters themselves.
This was unchecked thieving and violence, pure and simple - piggybacked onto a police firearms incident to provide some loose "justification". An incident in which a supposedly "innocent" (to use the words of his family) man has fired a loaded handgun at a police officer, who has been lucky to escape with his life.
My uniformed colleagues have endured some horrendous violence over the last few hours, and 8 of them are in hospital still - 1 with a serious head injury. They have fought running battles with groups of armed thugs, knowing that although they have the support of the silent majority, they will still be criticised and complained about at the drop of a hat - while the media gives a platform to people like this. They have precious little faith in their senior officers, who will join hands with the politically-correct people whose ideology has largely landed us in this mess. We know that we are damned if we do, and damned if we don't.
And tonight, we will be out doing it all again.
The prisoners I dealt with today:
a) Were all criminals already - with records as long as your arm
b) Were all "local residents"
c) Had never heard of "Mark Duggan"
I also took a report from a press photographer who was set upon by a mob (who had been stealing frozen food) and had over £8,000 of equipment stolen from him. The tog was also smashed over the head with a bottle, and given a gut-punch just to show him how angry the "community" are.
I have been to Tottenham and seen the damage. It is immense. We do not need ACPO-approved weasel words of appeasement, nor another truckload of "community leaders" whinging and whining about the deprivation of the area and blaming everybody except the looters themselves.
This was unchecked thieving and violence, pure and simple - piggybacked onto a police firearms incident to provide some loose "justification". An incident in which a supposedly "innocent" (to use the words of his family) man has fired a loaded handgun at a police officer, who has been lucky to escape with his life.
My uniformed colleagues have endured some horrendous violence over the last few hours, and 8 of them are in hospital still - 1 with a serious head injury. They have fought running battles with groups of armed thugs, knowing that although they have the support of the silent majority, they will still be criticised and complained about at the drop of a hat - while the media gives a platform to people like this. They have precious little faith in their senior officers, who will join hands with the politically-correct people whose ideology has largely landed us in this mess. We know that we are damned if we do, and damned if we don't.
And tonight, we will be out doing it all again.
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this
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I couldn't be bothered to watch the video he posted from the guardian. I assume the gist of it as that the youth of today are bored and therefore justified in smashing things up. So in a world where they have tv, radio, internet, computer games, gadgets galore, libraries etc these kids are BORED?!! They don't understand the meaning of boredom. I'm sure some starving ethiopians would be grateful to be bored instead of hungry.
You don't need to smack kids to instil discipline. Simple consequences and taking away their favourite things usually does the trick just as well. Kids also know when someone is too weak to follow through with a threat. If you don't do what you say you will then you're buggered.
You don't need to smack kids to instil discipline. Simple consequences and taking away their favourite things usually does the trick just as well. Kids also know when someone is too weak to follow through with a threat. If you don't do what you say you will then you're buggered.
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My best freind lived in flats that burnt down in that riot, He and his girl freind got out, but they have lost everything they own bar there two cats that they had to risk there lives to get them out. 
Stuart
Stuart
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I blame it all on the evils of rugs......
I read that the protest only turned violent after the police batoned a 16-year old girl to the ground. Also read disturbing reports of Duggan being dragged out of the taxi and then shot whilst he was on the ground. Don't know why everyone automatically believes the police/media's side of the story.
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reading some news articles i believe there are a lot of false rumours flying around trying to insite violence..
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Even if that were true, and I for one simply don't believe it is, it does not justify what has happened, which is just an excuse to destroy. Sadly many people today have lost the desire and ability to be creative and productive, they only know how to tear down, vandalise and destroy.
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OK, let's just say the rumours you've heard are true......
Can you honestly say that justifies anything that happened last night?
With regards to the Duggan shooting, he had a gun, some (including myself) would argue he deserved to be shot just for having a gun on his person.
Why would anyone carry a gun if they didn't intent to kill or injure anyone?
CT
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I think it might just be that they've seen the videos of the mindless violence , appalling destruction and looting of shops. and formed their own opinion of the people involved and their pretty thinly disguised motives.
Absolutely disgraceful - it represents the complete breakdown of society for the duration - exactly the same as The Handsworth riots in 1985.
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Or why one would automatically assume that those using the incident(s) as an excuse to destroy property aren't as equally capable of being economical with the truth..
One of the "community leaders" was even complaining that Duggan allegdly hadn't used his gun and that it was in his sock, I'm sorry but if he was such a law-abiding citizen why the hell was he carrying a concealed gun in the first place?
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In my admittedly bias option there is absolutely no action that justifies the burning of innocent peoples home while they are still in them!
Hope that as many of these people as possable will face justice.
Stuart
Hope that as many of these people as possable will face justice.
Stuart
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The rumour mill also says that the police only batoned the little brat after they had got tired of all of the rocks that she was flinging at them.
woof woof
I like a nice Chianti
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It seems the norm these days to always blame other people and to deny all responsibility for anything you do. We see this in every day life, if someone cuts you up on the road and you say anything to them they'll scream abuse at you as if it's your fault. It's the exact same attitude on a different scale in these riots, people will happily burn down someone's business and home and destroy all of their worldly possessions because they claim they feel disenfranchised. Well whoopy doo.
I was born and grew up in a deprived area that I'd bet would make anyone in Tottenham wince but I somehow managed to make a go of life and never felt the urge to burn someone's car or beat a photographer senseless.
What was it they said about the rioters in the US a few years ago? Something like... Before the riots they had no jobs and no prospects. After the riots they have no jobs, no prospects and no sympathy.
I have no sympathy what so ever for anyone who riots or plays the race card but I have a message for any of them in the unlikely event that they read my little rant...
Take responsibility for yourself and your actions, grow up and stop thinking that the world owes you a living, a 42 inch flat screen TV, a games console...
I was born and grew up in a deprived area that I'd bet would make anyone in Tottenham wince but I somehow managed to make a go of life and never felt the urge to burn someone's car or beat a photographer senseless.
What was it they said about the rioters in the US a few years ago? Something like... Before the riots they had no jobs and no prospects. After the riots they have no jobs, no prospects and no sympathy.
I have no sympathy what so ever for anyone who riots or plays the race card but I have a message for any of them in the unlikely event that they read my little rant...
Take responsibility for yourself and your actions, grow up and stop thinking that the world owes you a living, a 42 inch flat screen TV, a games console...
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The media have their own agenda too. They do not necessarily report the truth at all. Violence and looting which is carried out by a few people can easily be turned into a riot.
Reading the guardian report it seems the 16 year old girl may have chucked a stone at the police so she shouldn't be surprised she got a good battering. Stupid idiot.
The guardian reporting seems fairly sensible:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/blog/2011/aug/07/tottenham-riots-police-duggan-live#block-44
Reading the guardian report it seems the 16 year old girl may have chucked a stone at the police so she shouldn't be surprised she got a good battering. Stupid idiot.
The guardian reporting seems fairly sensible:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/blog/2011/aug/07/tottenham-riots-police-duggan-live#block-44
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It sickens me to think that I'm trying to raise my two kids (12 and 8) into a world where idiots not much older than they are think it's okay to wonder around armed with a loaded weapon...
...and where the ensuing riots cause serious injuries and however-many-millions of pounds' worth of damage. And are the perpetrators likely to feel the slightest bit of remorse? I doubt that very much. But what are our own kids going to have to do to survive in a few years' time?
Like Russ77 says above, I was brought up in a decade where if you were a waste of space at school, the headteacher's cane would make sure you knew about it. Teachers were right to do what they did, and parents would back them up instead of have a go back. And most of all, I was taught to respect the police. If you're on your own and your back's against the wall, who are you gonna call for?
What's happened is sheer bloody madness. And I hope that the liberals that have indirectly caused all this crap with their softly-softly approach learn a lesson instead of continually banging on about how these thugs need support and help, or how victimised they are... Bugger that - they know the difference between right and wrong. What gives them the right to victimise others by razing their homes to the ground?
I love this country... but when you hear about this kind of stuff going on, it makes you wonder why...
...and where the ensuing riots cause serious injuries and however-many-millions of pounds' worth of damage. And are the perpetrators likely to feel the slightest bit of remorse? I doubt that very much. But what are our own kids going to have to do to survive in a few years' time?
Like Russ77 says above, I was brought up in a decade where if you were a waste of space at school, the headteacher's cane would make sure you knew about it. Teachers were right to do what they did, and parents would back them up instead of have a go back. And most of all, I was taught to respect the police. If you're on your own and your back's against the wall, who are you gonna call for?
What's happened is sheer bloody madness. And I hope that the liberals that have indirectly caused all this crap with their softly-softly approach learn a lesson instead of continually banging on about how these thugs need support and help, or how victimised they are... Bugger that - they know the difference between right and wrong. What gives them the right to victimise others by razing their homes to the ground?
I love this country... but when you hear about this kind of stuff going on, it makes you wonder why...
You don't even need to carry a gun, a table leg or back pack is enough to get executed.
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This could about to be blown wide open though.
7.35pm: Initial ballistics tests on the bullet that lodged in a police officer's radio when Mark Duggan died on Thursday night show it was a police issue bullet, the Guardian understands.
The Guardian's crime correspondent, Sandra Laville, reports:
The revelation will fuel the fury in Tottenham about the killing of Mark Duggan by armed officers.
It also undermines suggestions that there was an exchange of fire between Duggan and the police before he died.
The bullet which was found lodged in the radio of one of the officers at the scene is still undergoing forensic tests. But reliable sources have said the first ballistics examinations suggested it was a police issue bullet.
These are very distinct as the Metropolitan Police uses dum dum type hollowed out bullets designed not to pass through an object.
The early suggestion from the IPCC was that the Met officers had returned fire after someone in the minicab opened fire. But the result of the ballistics early test suggests both shots fired came from the police.
Source: http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/blog/2011/aug/07/tottenham-riots-police-duggan-live#block-44
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Bit of trouble in Enfield now, need some rain to calm the hoodies down or maybe water cannons would work
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The table leg guy was acting in a way to make the police think he had a firearm, let's just pretend it was a firearm, the police did nothing and he killed either some police officers or a nearby family and also John De Mendez, OK it does look like the police got this wrong BUT given the circumstances I don't really blame them.
The whole of London was reeling from the tube/bus bombings, they believed there was a credible threat and he failed to comply with a simple police order to "Stop", again if he'd detonated a bomb on the tube I'd dread to think of the outcry.
Let me re-phrase my point, if you carry a firearm be it real or imitation or act in a way that gives the police reasonable belief that you are carrying a firearm and or pose a significant threat to the public, you deserve to be shot!
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why? as said the guy was still carrying a concealed firearm. whether he managed to fire it or not is irrelvant, the police are trained to react to threat not let something happen then react.
woof woof
I like a nice Chianti
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The table leg guy wasn't just shot without warning though was he?
It really annoys me when people like you rewrite history and I wonder why you do it?
arclight
Oooh that burglar's a cutie
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I seriously can't understand how any reasonable person can make ANY excuse for the events of last night OR someone carrying a gun! :shake:
That's just another symptom of the problem though isn't it.
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Because the whole justification for the killing so far has seemingly been placed on him shooting at the police first. If the shots are all police fired, that would lead a cynic to believe maybe they shot the radio afterwards did this after they shot him to cover themselves. Or maybe the guy had acquired a police gun, I don't know, but it seems decidedly more than what was initially reported.
Not excusing the riots at all, I just think there could be more to the police shooting than meets the eye.
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Shouldn't that be "innit"? :shake:
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Remember all the riots last time, mostly just an excuse to loot and have a go at the police although I do think some innocent people are sometimes treated rather unpleasantly
Got stopped on my way to work early one morning by the police and got asked very politely where i was going and could they look in my bag. I complied and after they had seen my milk, teabags and lunch thanked me for my co-operation
Sorry to say the two black chaps they approached next were not treated with the same courtesy and they were also no doubt just going about their lawful business.
Sure as photographers we can appreciate that given some of the rather draconian anti terroist stop and search business recently that respect is a two way thing, although not suggesting in any way the thugs from last nght deserve that respect
Got stopped on my way to work early one morning by the police and got asked very politely where i was going and could they look in my bag. I complied and after they had seen my milk, teabags and lunch thanked me for my co-operation
Sorry to say the two black chaps they approached next were not treated with the same courtesy and they were also no doubt just going about their lawful business.
Sure as photographers we can appreciate that given some of the rather draconian anti terroist stop and search business recently that respect is a two way thing, although not suggesting in any way the thugs from last nght deserve that respect
I'm not sure where you're getting your information from. There was no evidence of any police warning being given in the De Menesez case. Harry Stanley was carrying a table leg in a carrier bag - the inquest jury returned a verdict of unlawful killing. The two police officers involved were subsequently arrested on charges of murder, gross negligence, manslaughter and conspiracy to pervert the course of justice.
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You seem to be overlooking the point that he was going around with a gun in the first place.......
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