So what exactly are photography students being taught?

In my job I have employed many graduates with degrees in IT, some can hit the floor running (usually got their degree from unis that were polytechnics) and many need a lot of further training

I think it's the same for any subject. In the past, we have employed a couple of people with electronic engineering degrees. Both were useless - one even asked me which way to connect an LED (something very basic which I knew when I was about eight).


Steve.
 
I saw a Rolf Harris exhibition, and one of the national gallery chains often has his art on display. Quite good some of his stuff.

As for the learning, one of the things I've learnt is to learn from others that have gone before. Courses etc isn't allabout technical stuff, unless you're simply going on a starter 'this is how to use your camera' basics course . Yes it helps to throw in a bit at the start just to get everyone to a level place, but the real learning, truly eye opening stuff, is looking and discussing other peoples work.

Geoff dyers the ongoing moment, tracing hats or blind beggars through the decades of photography, picket fences, just a complete eye opener.

I thought I was a decent photographer, but I'm learning so much more.
 
Not too good by the looks of it ;)
I wouldn't worry too much.

Just let me put on my flame proof suit.

In my defence, we are talking about educational standards. I appreciate it's poor forum etiquette, but I left school with a couple of crap O levels and I'd be embarrassed to grace the internet with this...

I did a photography degree and learnt most of the technical stuff in my own time, it was one of the things that was very frustrating during the course, the lack of actual teaching, especially as it was not mentioned to most of us in our year group that it was going to be mainly arts based. But hey-ho I think this is like this from most degree courses and I guess if I had known beforehand I would of chosen a different teaching route.
And I know that you'd done it correctly lots of times but...

...

They also get a chance to meet, chat with, and show work to some big names too... so they get network opportunities regularly if their man enough to rise to the challenge. They also get a chance to get crit from them too. Funny thing is though... all the gobby ones referred to above, suddenly become shrinking violets when big names come in. They're at the back... on their phones. They just want a degree... the photography is incidental to them.
...
 
Firstly about myself, I'm by no means an expert, my photography training consists of 4 different evening courses from a local college, each about 12 hours in total. This took me from not knowing what any of the buttons did to a reasonable amatuer with an understanding of most of the photography spectrum. I have played about with a bit of everything from Studio work to Gigs, from Sports to Landscapes. In my eyes, I know what is good and I know what is bad, I can usually avoid the bad but don't always get the good. It has been about 2 years since I got my first Digital SLR. I still have lots to learn and still find myself learning after any full day shooting. I am my own harshest critic and will not show something unless I am very happy with it and think it is my best (that is not to say they still don't have mistakes in them!)

Recently I came into contact with a few people I would expect to be far superior to me.

The first was a girl I met on holiday, we were talking and a couple came over and asked us to take a picture using the guys SLR I saw it was a 60D and said 'Oh I have the model below that' and went to take the camera before I got there, the girl grabbed the camera and said she had just finished her second year of a Photography degree. Fair enough I thought you trump me! I then watched her turn the dial to Portrait mode (odd choice I thought as the background was interesting and there was plenty of light, I would have probably gone to AV and F11) The thing that really got me was she then proceeded to set the lens to manual focus and started snapping away. I was totally confused! The last thing I would do when taking someone elses camera with the dioptric set for their eye and use manual focus! We carried on talking and I said I was a photographer too and showed her my X100 I had with me. I said it had a 35mm equivalent F2 Lens. She gave me a blank look not really understanding. I then asked her about her kit and lenses she said she had a 20D and a kit lens and that she was getting a new portrait lens for Christmas as she wanted to do studio work. I asked which lens and she said 'I can't remember'. She then showed me a lot of her portraits taken in a studio on her phone far too difficult to actually judge how good they are on a small screen but they looked alright to me, If I hadn't had seen all the portraits she had I would have assumed her lying about the whole thing!

The next one is an acquaintance, he is full time at college doing a photography course. He put some pictures up of his up there are apparently for his second year project portfolio. There were full length shots of a girl out and about by the beach. The girl was way underexposed with the background correctly exposed all the colours were hugely over saturated. He claimed this was work going to his final mark! This wasn't me not liking the style it was just a bad set of photos, they (IMO) needed a flash to bring the subject exposure up. The pictures weren't something I as an amatuer would let see the light of day let alone submit to be graded!

I don't understand how these people can be in 'proper' education and make mistakes like these. Surely that is stuff the institution would whip out of you in the first few weeks? Both people with more than a years full time training I don't think someone with my limited training and experience should be able to pick such big holes in their skills.

What are 'proper' (i.e. you get a qualification at the end of it) courses like? I did briefly consider doing an OU course in Photography more for my own satisfaction and development than for actually using the qualification. I'm not so sure now!


This is exactly the same on my uni course. I find half the class have no idea/clue about how to use cameras and the majority of it is pretty dire. Guess only the grades will tell in the end. I'm mid second year and still people don't have a clue.

It's more related around art rather than taking a very good photograph, I find some of the tutors to be pretty short on knowledge too at times. It's way more theory/art based.
 
A few months ago I booked two photography graduates for a wedding later this year. We had a chat about their course and basically it seemed they learned very little if anything about the technical side of taking a photo. It seemed very geared towards the 'art' of it. The bride remarked the only thing the photography degree did was turn her off photography forever.

Apparently one of their earliest lectures with some super-tog (i'd never heard of him) he basically told them "Don't do it. Forget photography. There's no money in it. You'll be lucky if 1/25 of you make it as a photographer"

Their opinion is that it was a total waste of money and I have to say I agree.

I have to agree with this too, we've had lecturers saying not to bother doing it as a profession and I can see where they're coming from too.
 
You don't have to like work to appreciate whether something is good.
Most people never understand this. Whether art, music, food. People automatically refer to stuff they don't like as 'rubbish'.

However we are possibly all guilty of it to a degree; reality TV? soap operas? modern pop music? tabloids and chat magazines?

They appeal to the lowest common denominators, but they do it well, which takes imagination and talent and hard work for the people creating them.
 
I have to agree with this too, we've had lecturers saying not to bother doing it as a profession and I can see where they're coming from too.
Yeah but it's a bit late by the time you've signed up to a photography degree and sat in the lecture hall to be told to forget it! lol

Even if I agree! A friend of mine was chatting to me last night and his girlfriend was going to do a photography degree. Despite my best arguments they just couldn't understand why and still genuinely believe that a photography degree would give her a better chance at being a photographer!
 
We have students like that though. You always get them. They come from a BTEC course with triple distinctions, have a reasonable portfolio... and they're useless.

You're making the assumption that everyone is equal, and a course.. any course, even great ones, can make everyone into a great photographer. This is not the case, and if you think about it... you'll realise why. There's always going to be students who never turn up for lectures, think they know it all because they have xxxx likes on Flickr... argue with you, blow off hot air etc. They sit there arsing about with their phones when you're demonstrating something important... on their phone in lectures... never bring work to crit sessions... they bump along the bottom blaming the college for their poor grades because we don't know what we're taking about... scrape a third, or even a 2:2 if they turn in a good dissertation. Ultimately.. don't worry about it. There's always people like that on every course.. more so now than ever when all university managers see is walking pound signs. Higher education in general is turning into a bit of a farce at the minute, as managers and principals and chancellors find ways to get more students in, while seeming to be as ethical in recruiting as ever. I can assure you it's all b****x though... higher education is starting to turn into a joke. I'm not sure how long I can ethically stand it. I'd rather teach enthusiastic hobbyists to be honest. At least they have passion about it. Me and my colleagues fend off as much of that as we can, and I know many other friends at other Unis do too... but for how long we can continue doing that is anyone's guess. We're getting tired :(


The problem starts earlier though. It's A level and BTEC courses that cause the problem. Someone said further up that their daughter gets taught nothing at A level.... that resonates with me actually. Like I said further up.... we get students who have a triple Distinction BTEC, or maybe a DDM, they have an OK portfolio (for that level), seem enthusiastic... so we take them. Why wouldn't we? Yet come September when we start teaching, it quickly becomes apparent that something is deeply wrong..... They can't use a camera manually. They have no understanding of apertures, shutter speeds and the reciprocal relationship between the two. They never read about photography... don't seem interested in it... they'll spend all day on Flickr, but can't name a single photographer that inspires them! And given a 8 week project... shoot absolutely nothing until the last week and hand in some available light lit piece of crap that anyone could have shot. HOW??? How can you get a DDD in a BTEC Photography course and be so crap? A level students are as bad, if not worse. We've found... by the time THAT kind of student gets here, there's not much we can do. They've been fooled into thinking they can achieve success without knowledge or hard work by whoever taught them.... I use the word "taught" loosely here. They'll fight you all the way. Tell them they need to meter accurately, and they'll sneer and carry on chimping. When you grade their work lower because their RAW files aren't correctly exposed, they moan and try to tell you you're out of date.. no one works like that... we just correct it in Lightroom. Seriously... I mean. What can you do? They pay on average, £8k a year to come along and argue with you. If it were down to me, I'd boot their arses out of the door... but we're not allowed to do that any more, as we're booting £8k out of the door - which doesn't sit well with me. Something is going very, very wrong with further education in this country and it effects everything further up the chain. Probably because they spend as much time having to do maths and English. Did you know that? Most FE courses such as Edexcel/BTEC... students spend hours and hours every week doing maths and English. I mean... they have GCSE grades.. good ones sometimes... and they spend countless hours doing Maths and English when they signed up for Photography. Isn't that what Schools are for?? LOL

Culture change: Students now see themselves as customers, and it's your job to make them into photographers.. and they don't have to do anything... so if they fail, it's your fault :)

They are NOT the majority though. They're increasing... but the majority are pretty good, as they want it.. and they're hungry for it.

We DO teach all manner of technical stuff, yes.. why wouldn't we? We have a saying - "We can show you something, but we can't understand it for you". That sums up H.E. We'll not hold your hand. We demonstrate... you go practice. Those that do, learn.. those that leave the sessions and go home to go back to bed... won't. Who's fault is that? Do we have a duty to hold the rest back because we have to repeat something for those that couldn't be arsed? No. They'll probably fail. Not my problem (although increasingly, management would like it to be). These are the ones that probably say "We never got taught anything"... well.. they were in bed probably, that's why.

So yeah... they get taught it. I'll be out and about with 1st years this Tuesday with portable packs and studio lighting to introduce location lighting to them. It will be fun. Those that are enthusiastic will have another skill set in their arsenal if they carry on practising what was demonstrated to them. Those that stand at the back arsing about with their phones won't. (shrug). Darwinism in action if you ask me. In fact.... if it's cold.. those students will probably just not show up at all.

They get 6 hours of technical teaching and demonstration each and every week in year one. They're only on time table for 11... they also get 2 days in each week off time table that is intended for them to come in, use the studios and shoot. They are in for 3 days, but it's a full time course... 5 days per week. If they choose not to practice what we teach... that's their problem. So that should give you an idea of how much tech input there is. It's a fairly even split between academic and vocational... with a slight bias to the tech side in year 1. The degree course was written with the expectation that applicants already have a fair amount of knowledge though. Degrees are not, and have never been, for beginners. This is why these FE students that can't use cameras are causing such a headache.

They also get a chance to meet, chat with, and show work to some big names too... so they get network opportunities regularly if their man enough to rise to the challenge. They also get a chance to get crit from them too. Funny thing is though... all the gobby ones referred to above, suddenly become shrinking violets when big names come in. They're at the back... on their phones. They just want a degree... the photography is incidental to them.

What they don't realise is that no one in industry gives a toss about your degree. I can remember being a squeaky clean, new shiny graduate heading off to London. Got my first foot in the door at Holborn studios, and was amazed they never once asked to see my degree :) They did ask what Uni I went to though interestingly enough... which is something graduates still get asked apparently.. especially in editorial, fashion and advertising, and especially in London. Those who know... will also know which Unis turn out people who are actually capable. So a degree in itself is worth nothing. If you take the opportunities afforded you while at uni though... you'll grow as a person, and as a visual artist... and that shows in your book.. and that's all that matters. You judge a photographer by looking at their work, and talking to them about that work. It's not what they know... it's what they can do. There's also the baptism of fire which is assisting :) That separates the wheat from the chaff too. You can't blag your way in, as sooner or later someone will say, "enough talk... get your work out", or, "Shut it, and go and do x, y and z for me", and it's at that point when the blaggers are shown for what they really are.


There are good students and bad students.

There are good courses, and there are crap courses.

Caveat Emptor.

Websites like Unistats is useless as a guide too. If you are seriously interested, either for yourself, or for your children... go along... have a look.. talk to the staff... talk to the students. If it's a good course, you'll be able to as they'll have nothing to hide. Phone first of course... we're busy... but any institution with nothing to hide would be more than happy to arrange it. Then if you don't Ike what you see.. walk away. After all... that's what you do when you go shopping for anything else.. why would this be any different? :)


Couldn't agree more with you David. Although, did take me a bit of time to read that ;)

Yeah but it's a bit late by the time you've signed up to a photography degree and sat in the lecture hall to be told to forget it! lol

Even if I agree! A friend of mine was chatting to me last night and his girlfriend was going to do a photography degree. Despite my best arguments they just couldn't understand why and still genuinely believe that a photography degree would give her a better chance at being a photographer!

It's pretty off-putting, yes. But, some take advantage of this and make contact with those guest speakers which is beneficial. We worked with John Spinks this year, whilst everyone didn't like his teaching methods, I found him helpful and understand where he was coming from. Who wants to teach half a class that cant be bothered actually being there?! I wouldn't..

Everybody seems to go quiet like mentioned above, nobody asks questions or wants to know more. It's sad, it really is.
 
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I'm afraid that I would have given you a blank look as well :)

What is a 35mm equivalent F2 Lens?
It's a lens with a focal length of 2mm:)
Fair point, knowing the difference between F2 and f/2 is pretty basic. Obviously there's far more to photography than understanding terminology and the basic technical stuff, but that understanding is very necessary.
 
It depends what sort of course they're on.

If they're on a degree course the work they are being taught should be primarily academic.

If they are on a vocational course then they should be being taught mostly practical things.

Of course there are crossovers, but degrees don't generally teach you how to use a camera, and vocational courses don't teach you much about art theory.
 
I did a photography degree and learnt most of the technical stuff in my own time, it was one of the things that was very frustrating during the course, the lack of actual teaching, especially as it was not mentioned to most of us in our year group that it was going to be mainly arts based. But hey-ho I think this is like this from most degree courses and I guess if I had known beforehand I would of chosen a different teaching route.

With respect... did you not do any research? It took me months and months of research to decide on the correct degree course for me at the correct institution. I examined the course syllabuses, their reading lists, looked up their academics and read the academics book reviews...

When you're spending £9000 a year - or about £45 an hour on contact time - then surely you must look into it enough to know what you would be doing an 'arts based course'. To be honest, I'd be shocked at ANY photography degree that wasn't arts based... considering that photography is about art.
 
The problem starts earlier though. It's A level and BTEC courses that cause the problem. Someone said further up that their daughter gets taught nothing at A level.... that resonates with me actually. Like I said further up.... we get students who have a triple Distinction BTEC, or maybe a DDM, they have an OK portfolio (for that level), seem enthusiastic... so we take them. Why wouldn't we? Yet come September when we start teaching, it quickly becomes apparent that something is deeply wrong..... They can't use a camera manually. They have no understanding of apertures, shutter speeds and the reciprocal relationship between the two. They never read about photography... don't seem interested in it... they'll spend all day on Flickr, but can't name a single photographer that inspires them! And given a 8 week project... shoot absolutely nothing until the last week and hand in some available light lit piece of crap that anyone could have shot. HOW??? How can you get a DDD in a BTEC Photography course and be so crap? A level students are as bad, if not worse. We've found... by the time THAT kind of student gets here, there's not much we can do. They've been fooled into thinking they can achieve success without knowledge or hard work by whoever taught them.... I use the word "taught" loosely here.

The impression I'v often gotten is that photography at A-level and GCSE is viewed as a bit of a soft touch, I'v given camera buying advice(normally a cheap used DSLR) to a few friends or their children directly and whilst the children didn't seem lazy(a couple were taking 4 A-level's) they definitely viewed photography as something "fun on the side". I'm guessing for most people that's what these photography courses are rather than something that's going to lead to a photography degree, in that situation I think its easy to see how the courses can be bent in that direction rather than as prep for a degree.
 
Perhaps it's a bit of a stretch, but the balance between the material that is taught by the lecturers and what is expected to be learnt by the student is never 1:1. What is taught is only ever a subset of what needs to be learnt.

Take my own degree as an example. I studied Computer Science back in the late 1980's - We were taught, amongst other things, the 'art' of programming, balanced binary trees, recursion, and so on. A toolset we could call upon to assist us when we were required to produce a piece of work. In the creative process, these could be analogous to the rule of thirds, negative space etc (I can't really name anything stretching here as I don't know!).

These tools or techniques were taught alongside a very formal modelling 'language' - The Vienna Development Method (VDM), and we were required to formally prove our algorithms through mathematical induction, perhaps being analogous to being able to analyse and critique an image and understand what elements make it work and explain why.

We were never taught how to program in C, Pascal, Fortran, Machine Code. We were expected to choose the appropriate tool for the job and lean how to use it ourselves to get done what needed to be done. Our individual choice of tool, and our degree of mastery over it certainly impacted the final product, but the onus was very much on us as students to make the choice and master it ourselves.

Is the same not true on a photography degree? The taught element being colour theory, composition, balance, etc, the ability to analyse and extract elements from a scene and explain why it works, why you made those choices etc. The self learnt bit being selecting a tool or 'camera' and making it work for you?
 
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It's a lens with a focal length of 2mm:)
Fair point, knowing the difference between F2 and f/2 is pretty basic. Obviously there's far more to photography than understanding terminology and the basic technical stuff, but that understanding is very necessary.

Thanks for that Garry, I do know about F numbers & focal length but thought I must be mistaken as I have never heard of a lens with a 2mm focal length. Does such a lens exist?
Apologies for going off topic :)
 
Perhaps it's a bit of a stretch, but the balance between the material that is taught by the lecturers and what is expected to be learnt by the student is never 1:1. What is taught is only ever a subset of what needs to be learnt.

Take my own degree as an example. I studied Computer Science back in the late 1980's - We were taught, amongst other things, the 'art' of programming, balanced binary trees, recursion, and so on. A toolset we could call upon to assist us when we were required to produce a piece of work. In the creative process, these could be analogous to the rule of thirds, negative space etc (I can't really name anything stretching here as I don't know!).

These tools or techniques were taught alongside a very formal modelling 'language' - The Vienna Development Method (VDM), and we were required to formally prove our algorithms through mathematical induction, perhaps being analogous to being able to analyse and critique an image and understand what elements make it work and explain why.

We were never taught how to program in C, Pascal, Fortran, Machine Code. We were expected to choose the appropriate tool for the job and lean how to use it ourselves to get done what needed to be done. Our individual choice of tool, and our degree of mastery over it certainly impacted the final product, but the onus was very much on us as students to make the choice and master it ourselves.

Is the same not true on a photography degree? The taught element being colour theory, composition, balance, etc, the ability to analyse and extract elements from a scene and explain why it works, why you made those choices etc. The self learnt bit being selecting a tool or 'camera' and making it work for you?

^^ This.
 
It's a lens with a focal length of 2mm:)
Fair point, knowing the difference between F2 and f/2 is pretty basic. Obviously there's far more to photography than understanding terminology and the basic technical stuff, but that understanding is very necessary.


it might be basic,,but i dont have a scooby ,,,,any chance you could explain please Gary ( might have to make it simple though )
 
it might be basic,,but i dont have a scooby ,,,,any chance you could explain please Gary ( might have to make it simple though )

I've not come across these terms either. Perhaps they are older terms that have fallen out of use?
 
Yeah but it's a bit late by the time you've signed up to a photography degree and sat in the lecture hall to be told to forget it! lol

Even if I agree! A friend of mine was chatting to me last night and his girlfriend was going to do a photography degree. Despite my best arguments they just couldn't understand why and still genuinely believe that a photography degree would give her a better chance at being a photographer!

With respect, that really depends on what kind of photographer she wants to be. There are plenty of branches of photography and photography related professions that would benefit from a photography degree. Just like there are plenty of photography related professions that would benefit more from a business degree, or an art degree, or a forensics degree... or many other types of degree.
 
And I know that you'd done it correctly lots of times but...

Then why mention it if you know that I know? :) One word for you Phil... "iPad".




Would you need a degree to work at somewhere like Venture?

No: They may pretend to insist on it, but that's for the customer's benefit in case they ever see an advertisement for a position. What Venture want are clowns who can entertain a family for an hour. Lighting n Venture studios is preset and they just snap away. Some might have talent, but there's a limit to what you can do. Venture is a franchise and it has a branded look to it. They will not allow individual studios to do their own thing. Venture don't require photographers... they require entertainers.


We were never taught how to program in C, Pascal, Fortran, Machine Code. We were expected to choose the appropriate tool for the job and lean how to use it ourselves to get done what needed to be done. Our individual choice of tool, and our degree of mastery over it certainly impacted the final product, but the onus was very much on us as students to make the choice and master it ourselves.

Is the same not true on a photography degree?

It is, yes.

We demonstrate an unbelievable amount of stuff. There's another saying I often give to students, "I can spend all year teaching you how to ride a bike, but unless you actually get on one and fall off a few times, you'll never, ever be able to ride one".

Some listen. Some don't.

We can't understand things for them. We probably have more technical teaching than most other degrees.. perhaps too much. We interface a great deal with industry though, so we have to react to what industry contacts and the AoP tell us.... and that is the same as were hearing in here... that graduates don't know their arse from their elbow. Whether they know their stuff when they leave or not is ultimately down to them though. It's very annoying when you hear them say "We weren't taught anything technical".... it makes you want to scream :) Students these days seem to expect knowledge to just be transferred via some telepathic process it would seem. They never want to read, research, study. They just want to sit in a classroom and be "taught". There's something entirely broken in our schools if you ask me. Too much time chasing league table scores, and changing goal posts to achieve that.

There's no such thing as just sitting in a classroom and being "taught". You have to go and practice stuff. With academic subjects, you need to go read the stuff that they tell you to read.... look at bibliographies... study!
 
When I got interested in photography I signed up for a City & Guilds course at a local college (1 evening a week for a year) I came away with a Distinction BUT wasn't taught to shoot in manual, was shooting JPEGs (wasn't even told about RAW), not taught about WB or many of the other important technical skills we also weren't really taught anything about the creative side either!
I then decided to see what I could find online and signed up with an American forum just for women and read everything I could on photography from basic tech skills through to processing and then practiced, practiced and practiced some more. I also regularly put my photos up for critique and the "pro members" would explain what I did wrong and how I could do better then next time.
Not saying that this is the right way to learn but for me I feel I gained a lot!
My older son wanted to sign up for a photography course in 6th Form and was refused because he hadn't done Art for a GCSE - when I spoke to the teacher and asked why and explained I also enjoyed photography it was clearly evident that I seemed to have more knowledge than he did, which to be honest I found shocking :jawdrop:
My son still sees friends that are signed up on the A Level course and he still knows more than they do because of asking me questions/watching me etc
As for me im still learning all I can, read about photography ever day and am doing a 365 project this year to try to progress my work as much as I can :)
 
When I got interested in photography I signed up for a City & Guilds course at a local college (1 evening a week for a year) I came away with a Distinction BUT wasn't taught to shoot in manual, was shooting JPEGs (wasn't even told about RAW), not taught about WB or many of the other important technical skills we also weren't really taught anything about the creative side either!

What the hell were they doing for a year then?? LOL Seems to me there was little tech input, and little creative input. Not much left once you remove those two things, surely. :)
 
Isn't education wonderful? Glad I left school at the age of 15 without any qualifications and now own a successful business.
 
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I bumped into a lecturer I know recently (not in photography) and they have left their job bemoaning the whole 'bums on seats' mentality and a glut of students who sat there expecting to be spoon fed like primary school. He said he could understand a few students like that as it happened even when he was at Uni, but they were so prevalent now he packed it in, and due to the money they brought in it was a grin and bear it situation when he raised it higher up the ladder.

On a photography degree/course is there any form of learning how to market yourself or a prospective business you might set up?
 
What the hell were they doing for a year then?? LOL Seems to me there was little tech input, and little creative input. Not much left once you remove those two things, surely. :)

Lol I often wonder myself now looking back, we did some studio work, were sent around the college to look and shoot things we found interesting, we were taught about different types of cameras and lenses, memory cards etc but not taught about the difference having a fixed ap lens to a variable ap lens. We had to choose two different themes to use for our final assessment but had no input to what might be the best to do, we were taught about basic printing and how to cut a mount.
We were only there for 3 hours a week and seemed to spend a lot of time looking at a computer screen and chatting as I remember ;)
 
On a connected note, are there any acceptable,good,old fashioned courses available and on what terms? IE, full time part time 1 year 3 years etc? Is it really worth pursuing these so called online diploma courses? I know how a cameras exposure settings work, I'd like to think a photography student would too.
 
I bumped into a lecturer I know recently (not in photography) and they have left their job bemoaning the whole 'bums on seats' mentality

I can sympathise with him fully.

On a photography degree/course is there any form of learning how to market yourself or a prospective business you might set up?

Yes. Most courses do. To what extent I can't say with certainty. I know we do. I know UCLAN do, and I know Nottingham and Trent do... as do Coventry. We even bring guest lecturers in to have them talk about what exactly you need to do in order to stand a chance. All our team are practising professionals who know exactly how to survive in our respective fields. I'm sure there are courses out there staffed by those that have never actually worked professionally though. I think most Unis aren't like that though. Most insist on a professional CV and research profile before you're allowed near a HE student. People think you can walk right into a degree lecturing position having never shot anything. They're wrong. A level and FE may accept that, but you'll never get a look in at degree level. I know one or two that will employ anyone though.

Like I said further up the thread. Go along... take a look... talk to staff. I don't doubt for one minute that there are some really poor degree curses out there.... but there are some excellent ones too.
 
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One thing it DID teach me though was that I loved photography and wanted to learn more so for that it was worth while :)
 
I can sympathise with him fully.




Like I said further up the thread. Go along... take a look... talk to staff. I don't doubt for one minute that there are some really poor degree curses out there.... but there are some excellent ones too.

Freudian? :)
 
One that teaches composition,light structure, aesthetics, that sort of thing. Old fashioned is more a confession of my M.O. ....

HNDs re better at the more prescriptive stuff like that. I know we would never "teach" composition to students. We discuss it on an image by image basis in crit sessions. There is no such thing as correct composition, so we can't really teach it as a factual subject, can we? :)
 
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One that teaches composition,light structure, aesthetics, that sort of thing. Old fashioned is more a confession of my M.O. ....

Well those are the things I'm taught to question on my History of Art degree...
 
Garry Edwards said:
It's a lens with a focal length of 2mm:)
Fair point, knowing the difference between F2 and f/2 is pretty basic. Obviously there's far more to photography than understanding terminology and the basic technical stuff, but that understanding is very necessary.

it might be basic,,but i dont have a scooby ,,,,any chance you could explain please Gary ( might have to make it simple though )
NIKON FM + ILFORD HP5 PLUS = :) :) :)
It's just the standard and correct way of expressing these things.
F = focal length, so if a lens has a focal length of 50mm it is written as F50
f/ = f/number, so if the aperture, which is arrived at by dividing the actual aperture into the focal length, is 1mm, that is expressed as f/50 (if the lens has a focal length of 50mm)

It's just correct terminology. Usually, people know what is actually meant, just as they know that people usually mean depth of field when they say depth of focus, or mean diffraction limitation when they say diffraction, but it's good to use the correct terms and anyone who has received any worthwhile training in photography will know and use the correct terminology.
 
HNDs re better at the more prescriptive stuff like that. I know we would never "teach" composition to students. We discuss it on an image by image basis in crit sessions. There is no such thing as correct composition, so we can't really teach it as a factual subject, can we? :)

While it may be something 'indefinable, how about the rule of thirds, is that not composition? There are many different viewpoints of a particular scene but I would think that certain viewpoint/s were generally speaking, more appealing than others?
Granted, it is an amorphous matter of taste and eye but the thinking photographer could make a more arresting picture than your average point and shoot happy snapper.

Well those are the things I'm taught to question on my History of Art degree...

Questioning everything can be creative, it could also lead to utter stagnation and no onward progress.
 
and anyone who has received any worthwhile training in photography will know and use the correct terminology.

To be honest, I'd not bother correcting a student who wrote f2.8 rather than f/2.8. I would hardly ever write f/2.8 either... especially if I'm on a tablet where you have to press something to modify the keyboard in order to type a "/". Typing it without the "/" will have absolutely no impact on their photography whatsoever, so it's not particularly important. Those that are interested in being technically precise are welcome to be so... but we'd not waste their time on something like that.
 
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