Sony Landscape on a budget...

[ihasa]

Sony's cameras don't appeal to me in and of themselves, but I do envy the lens choice, especially with Tamron's recent E-mount lenses; the 17-35, 28-75, and 70-180 all seem pretty damn good, affordable, and are actually quite small and lightweight for f2.8 lenses - which makes sense on a mirrorless body. I haven't actually used these lenses but have slavered over Dustin Abbott's Youtube reviews.

I'd go for a cheaper, older body to get going, 24MP is more than adequate. There's one body that spits out compressed RAW files though, not sure which one it is but probably best avoided.

 

[woof woof]

Sony's cameras don't appeal to me in and of themselves, but I do envy the lens choice, especially with Tamron's recent E-mount lenses; the 17-35, 28-75, and 70-180 all seem pretty damn good, affordable, and are actually quite small and lightweight for f2.8 lenses - which makes sense on a mirrorless body. I haven't actually used these lenses but have slavered over Dustin Abbott's Youtube reviews.

I'd go for a cheaper, older body to get going, 24MP is more than adequate. There's one body that spits out compressed RAW files though, not sure which one it is but probably best avoided.

If there's some reason and substance then fine but if there's nothing you can specify then I'd say just judge these things as the tools they are. Forget who made it and just assess the features, image quality, handling, lens and accessories choice and prices.

 

[ihasa]

If there's some reason and substance then fine but if there's nothing you can specify then I'd say just judge these things as the tools they are. Forget who made it and just assess the features, image quality, handling, lens and accessories choice and prices.

Well I've handled the new A6/7 series bodies, used to own an NEX. I dunno. It comes down to things as simple and dumb as 'I cannot easily use this camera wearing gloves' and 'these controls are frustrating.' I didn't really want to get into the whys and wherefores of it, as I realise these things are going to be different for different people.

 

[Stephen L]

Well I've handled the new A6/7 series bodies, used to own an NEX. I dunno. It comes down to things as simple and dumb as 'I cannot easily use this camera wearing gloves' and 'these controls are frustrating.' I didn't really want to get into the whys and wherefores of it, as I realise these things are going to be different for different people.

Those two things are perfectly valid as far as I'm concerned. The feel of a camera, and its operability as far as you're concerned, are at least as important as IQ, which in reality is good with almost any modern camera. I'm happy with my Sony A7C, but was just as happy when I used Fuji, Nikon, and Olympus. Each had their own foibles, and each their own but different good points.

 

[snerkler]

Those two things are perfectly valid as far as I'm concerned. The feel of a camera, and its operability as far as you're concerned, are at least as important as IQ, which in reality is good with almost any modern camera. I'm happy with my Sony A7C, but was just as happy when I used Fuji, Nikon, and Olympus. Each had their own foibles, and each their own but different good points.

Nikon Z's still have the best grip for me. The latest generation Sony's are the best so far, and I can actually fit my fingers between the grip and lens on these but I still wish there was 2-3mm more room. Also, the quality of the EVF is not as good as Nikon, it goes ever so slightly grainy when you half press the shutter. Still, I'd say the A7RIV/Sony system is the best all round package I've used so far.

 

[Dryce]

I know this GAS pathway - the 24mp won't be enough and they'll end up upgrading the body later. A lot do. I'd bite the bullet on the high res body first. Particularly now with 4k screens etc.

24mp is more than enough unless you aggressively crop everything.

Just where do people get the benefit of these higher res images? How much gets posted online usefully or printed usefully where it needs higher resolution?

Consider that AA filters are less of a thing as well .....

 

[SFTPhotography]

24mp is more than enough unless you aggressively crop everything.

Just where do people get the benefit of these higher res images? How much gets posted online usefully or printed usefully where it needs higher resolution?

Consider that AA filters are less of a thing as well .....

You see. I just don't think it is. More is always better until it comes at a big expense at dynamic range and colour depth. Currently I would say the new 61mp a7r4 pushes it a bit beyond what's technically good for that sensor size at the moment, and the sweet spots the 42-45.7 mp bodies. Again though if you exposure blend then the a7r4 really is the one for the Op.

Storage is cheap, screens are now 4 and even 8k res. Agency/stock sites like bigger files. And seeing the file really big at 100% and relishing all that detail is fun. Optics are more advanced now as are PCs to process them on.

Printing is only one small reason to want more res.

No way would I even consider buying a camera today with less than 42mp. 24mp is so 2012.

 

[LongLensPhotography]

Just where do people get the benefit of these higher res images? How much gets posted online usefully or printed usefully where it needs higher resolution?

I personally start to notice some difference printing from A1 onwards, so if big prints or very heavy cropping is your thing then you need one. Subjectively, subject matter, light, execution and lens quality are by far more important factors

 

[robj20]

I went from 36mp to 24mp and can't say I see a difference.
Love the A7C I have now and I do a lot of landscape stuff. When you do a lot of hiking to get to the locations size and weight can make a big difference.
I'd only go for more MP now if there was no choice, I wouldn't actively look for high MP.

Oh and the 20mm f1.8 is next on my list for landscape work. I didn't like the 16-35 f4 I had previously.

 

[Dryce]

Printing is only one small reason to want more res.

And the other big reasons are ..... ?

No way would I even consider buying a camera today with less than 42mp. 24mp is so 2012.

So basically you're trapped then .. because in 2028 your Mp number of today will be 'so 2020' and so on.

And ..... for what *tangible* benefit ........ well maybe you can illuminate this luddite with those big reasons.

 

[nandbytes]

Morning folks.

Hope you've all had an excellent festive period.

Ultimate goal is A7R IV and 20mm f1.8. But at £4k+(after cashback) it's a bit rich for me at the moment.

Was thinking of buying the lens and a cheaper body to get me started. But I'm not sure if it's worth it... Or worth just waiting and saving until I can get the combo I want.

Currently using iPhone 12 Pro Max which isn't too shabby but looking to get back into a camera.

Any advice or guidance?

EDIT also want to do some astro at some point

Thank you

What is your budget at the moment?

 

[GeordieStew]

What is your budget at the moment?

2500...3000 ish. I guess. I could stretch.

I don't want any dead money. Reselling in a couple of months because I bought a cheap body that's going to cause too much compromise. Or incompatible lenses.

 

[nandbytes]

2500...3000 ish. I guess. I could stretch.

I don't want any dead money. Reselling in a couple of months because I bought a cheap body that's going to cause too much compromise. Or incompatible lenses.

If you don't want to loose money buying and selling then it's better to buy used.
You normally lose money with bodies less so with lenses which hold their value rather well, especially so on Sony.

Though 20G on the festive offers are going for very close to used prices so might just be worth buying it new especially if you plan on keeping it longer term.

You might want to think about other lenses too for landscape because just the 20mm will be a bit limiting

Then spend whatever is left on a used older model like A7III may be.

 

[snerkler]

2500...3000 ish. I guess. I could stretch.

I don't want any dead money. Reselling in a couple of months because I bought a cheap body that's going to cause too much compromise. Or incompatible lenses.

I think your option is out of budget new, but I’d suggest buying used anyway to lose less money. I’m not sure how much the A7RIV’s are used though.

 

[Bobsyeruncle]

2500...3000 ish. I guess. I could stretch.

I don't want any dead money. Reselling in a couple of months because I bought a cheap body that's going to cause too much compromise. Or incompatible lenses.

A7Riv £2079 on E-infinity.
A7Riii £1579
20mm 1.8 £759

 

[snerkler]

A7Riv £2079 on E-infinity.
20mm 1.8 £759

£2k for an A7RIV? ‘Bargain’

 

[SFTPhotography]

And the other big reasons are ..... ?



So basically you're trapped then .. because in 2028 your Mp number of today will be 'so 2020' and so on.

And ..... for what *tangible* benefit ........ well maybe you can illuminate this luddite with those big reasons.

Yeah. In seven years 150mp will be the norm in full frame cameras as will 8k screens. So yes in seven years I'll probably a) have a new machine (by then 256 core, 2tb ram, 512gb gpu) and bigger larger 8k screen so why wouldn't I want the camera to go with that. Why wouldn't I want to relish and marvel and what the latest and greatest tech can do. Finally we will have screens that can display true Adobe pro photo colour space and at 8k res or more.

Print is just one way to enjoy photographs. Personally I think its a little old fashioned and truth is I like to put them on my 50 inch TV and view. Soon that will be an 85 8k and aye ill wanna see them sharp close up. 24mp wouldn't even fill that. 33mp would...just. and there will be life beyond 8k.

Print is good but on big screen its better - and relishing all the fine details at zoom to actual size function very gratifying. It was the big thing I noticed jumping from 24mp to 36mp and again to 50mp. Maybe I like the 100% preview button too much. Maybe because I like to focus critically and get the best I can out of my gear that I care.

So as I say to the OP I totally do not agree than 24mp is sufficient. You can see it and as screen and display tech improves you'll see it further down line even more. Get the a7r3 or a7r4

Edit 16k has just been approved on a quick search on Google. Really want that 24mp camera. I'm really wondering if 50mp medium format is enough and the sooner quite frankly I'm shooting with 150mp Hasselblad the better

 

[Bobsyeruncle]

Yeah. In seven years 150mp will be the norm in full frame cameras as will 8k screens. So yes in seven years I'll probably a) have a new machine (by then 256 core, 2tb ram, 512gb gpu) and bigger larger 8k screen so why wouldn't I want the camera to go with that. Why wouldn't I want to relish and marvel and what the latest and greatest tech can do. Finally we will have screens that can display true Adobe pro photo colour space and at 8k res or more.

Print is just one way to enjoy photographs. Personally I think its a little old fashioned and truth is I like to put them on my 50 inch TV and view. Soon that will be an 85 8k and aye ill wanna see them sharp close up. 24mp wouldn't even fill that. 33mp would...just. and there will be life beyond 8k.

Print is good but on big screen its better - and relishing all the fine details at zoom to actual size function very gratifying. It was the big thing I noticed jumping from 24mp to 36mp and again to 50mp. Maybe I like the 100% preview button too much. Maybe because I like to focus critically and get the best I can out of my gear that I care.

So as I say to the OP I totally do not agree than 24mp is sufficient. You can see it and as screen and display tech improves you'll see it further down line even more. Get the a7r3 or a7r4

Edit 16k has just been approved on a quick search on Google. Really want that 24mp camera. I'm really wondering if 50mp medium format is enough and the sooner quite frankly I'm shooting with 150mp Hasselblad the better

Sounds like you're never going to be happy......

 

[SFTPhotography]

Sounds like you're never going to be happy...... [emoji38]

No, but I will keep upgrading and using the best stuff I can afford. Nothing wrong with that.

I enjoy high resolution and the detail that comes. You always seem to have enough until they make a better one and then you think nah when you see the sample image. Then you imagine that with your best images, using it at your favourite place in amazing conditions and think yes, yes, yes I want that capability for me.

Let me tell you a regret in my photography. I went to the Elan Valley. Perfect light, perfect reflections and I had the 24Mp. I deeply regret not having the 36mp with me. The 100% detail isn't there, the crispness at full 100% isn't quite there. I went back with ART primes, better body etc but never got the conditions nearly as good. If only I had that stuff 1st time around but I listened to the chump advice that 24mp is enough. It ain't.

Another was going to Aiguille du Midi with some naff soft as f*** in the edges cheap ass piece of s*** F4 zoom. Amazing conditions etc and lovely pictures but the 2.8 version would have got it crisper, particularly if you bother to check at 100%. I might not have had to crop off the smeary soft sides as the 2.8 version has perfect centre to edge sharpness

And as screen resolutions improve and you start to display on an 85inch plus 8k screen I think that'll matter.

My other advice to the OP is only buy the finest primes and zooms. You'll just upgrade to them anyway so save yourself the bother and get the best lenses and body you can. That means otus primes, g master 2.8 zooms etc

 

[Bobsyeruncle]

No, but I will keep upgrading and using the best stuff I can afford. Nothing wrong with that.

I enjoy high resolution and the detail that comes. You always seem to have enough until they make a better one and then you think nah when you see the sample image.

Let me tell you a regret in my photography. I went to the Elan Valley. Perfect light, perfect reflections and I had the 24Mp. I deeply regret not having the 36mp with me. The 100% detail isn't there, the crispness at full 100% isn't quite there. I went back with ART primes, better body etc but never got the conditions nearly as good. If only I had that stuff 1st time around but I listened to the chump advice that 24mp is enough. It ain't.

Another was going to Aiguille du Midi with some naff soft as f*** in the edges cheap ass piece of s*** F4 zoom. Amazing conditions etc and lovely pictures but the 2.8 version would have got it crisper, particularly if you bother to check at 100%. I might not have had to crop off the smeary soft sides as the 2.8 version has perfect centre to edge sharpness

And as screen resolutions improve and you start to display on an 85inch plus 8k screen u think that'll matter.

My other advice to the OP is only buy the finest primes and zooms. You'll just upgrade to them anyway so save yourself the bother and get the best lenses and body you can. That means otus primes, g master 2.8 zooms etc

Why bother? There's always something better around the corner?
Oh, by the way, the title of the thread does say "on a budget" that's the OP's budget, not yours.....
Some people are happy with what they use, and don't hanker for the latest and greatest gear....some have all the gear, and.....well you know how the saying goes. (I don't mean you by the way in that last bit)

 

[SFTPhotography]

Why bother? There's always something better around the corner?
Oh, buy the way, the title of the thread does say "on a budget" that's the OP's budget, not yours.....

We still live in the present. That's why bother. We take images with what's available at the time.

And that a7r4 is going for a song. I think the OP should seriously consider it.

 

[Bobsyeruncle]

Let me tell you a regret in my photography. I went to the Elan Valley. Perfect light, perfect reflections and I had the 24Mp. I deeply regret not having the 36mp with me. The 100% detail isn't there, the crispness at full 100% isn't quite there. I went back with ART primes, better body etc but never got the conditions nearly as good. If only I had that stuff 1st time around but I listened to the chump advice that 24mp is enough. It ain't.

Another was going to Aiguille du Midi with some naff soft as f*** in the edges cheap ass piece of s*** F4 zoom. Amazing conditions etc and lovely pictures but the 2.8 version would have got it crisper, particularly if you bother to check at 100%. I might not have had to crop off the smeary soft sides as the 2.8 version has perfect centre to edge sharpness

There's something quite sad about that..... and I don't mean the fact that you feel you had the wrong gear.

 

[SFTPhotography]

There's something quite sad about that..... and I don't mean the fact that you feel you had the wrong gear.

Well other than many too windy/too cloudy/too clear wrong place wrong time not enough trips abroad I'd say I've had a pretty good run don't you? I've had a lot of great mornings, evenings, days out and captured/seen many amazing things - and being blunt probably have had more of that than most get in a life time.

And as it were this thread is about gear and I would like to see the OP avoid the mistakes I made with gear. If you buy cheap you buy cheap then expensive. If you buy expensive you just buy expensive. Do it once, do it right.

And what's wrong with caring about technical excellence...you say its sad. Why?

 

[Bobsyeruncle]

And what's wrong with caring about technical excellence...you say its sad. Why?

Because you'll never be happy.
You got your 36mp, it's not enough, you wanted more. You've just bought mf gear with 51mp, and already you're talking about wanting 150mp....

 

[LongLensPhotography]

If you buy expensive you just buy expensive. Do it once, do it right.

There is no once, as the new and better version comes along

 

[SFTPhotography]

Because you'll never be happy.
You got your 36mp, it's not enough, you wanted more. You've just bought mf gear with 51mp, and already you're talking about wanting 150mp....
Oh, and 4k resolution is only 12mp....

Let's say i buy a porsche 911. I'm still happy, thrilled with it and love driving it but it still doesn't stop me wanting a Ferrari...

The MF is incredible but I'd be dillusional to say ill still have it in 20 years. I normally run stuff for 6 to 8 year life cycles be that TVs, PCs or cameras (first 36mp i got in 2014).

Let's take the "you'll never be happy" argument you pose. If I was happy with the pish I took back when I first became a member on here back in 2011 theres no way I'd have become the photographer I am now. Being happy stinks of complacency to me. I belive there's always room for improvement, to do better, to achieve more.

I'm at a place where, and forgive me if I sound smug, where I actually like the pictures I take. Trust me this wasn't always the case for me.

Why because I've pushed myself to get here, and I will always want to hone my skill and get myself out in there in the best conditions and use the best gear I can. Still though I can see where better dynamic range, more color depth, better AF, more res would help me, and I can also see where quite frankly where I've been the problem too.

There is always room to take be better at what we do and the day we stop trying is the day we give up. And that applies to a lot more than just photography.

We live in a world where technology improves rapidly and in the context of the OP I don't think 24mp is what it once was for our times. Not for landscape photography, not for selling big images or displaying on modern High res screens.

 

[Bobsyeruncle]

Let's say i buy a porsche 911. I'm still happy, thrilled with it and love driving it but it still doesn't stop me wanting a Ferrari...

The MF is incredible but I'd be dillusional to say ill still have it in 20 years. I normally run stuff for 6 to 8 year life cycles be that TVs, PCs or cameras (first 36mp i got in 2014).

Well, based on your previous comments, why waste your money on a Porche?

 

[SFTPhotography]

Well, based on your previous comments, why waste your money on a Porche?

Because there and now it is an amazing car thats the best for the time and it would give 7 to 8 years very high performance motoring.

 

[Mintchocs]

That’s a lot of money to spend. What is your level of expertise and what do you intend to do with your final images? You might want to get some basic gear with good lenses, get a good monitor/computer, large format printer and invest in doing some away tutorial trips with professionals.

 

[SFTPhotography]

That’s a lot of money to spend. What is your level of expertise and what do you intend to do with your final images? You might want to get some basic gear with good lenses, get a good monitor/computer, large format printer and invest in doing some away tutorial trips with professionals.

I was assuming the OP would not only invest in the gear but invest the time in crafting images, learning how to compose and expose and would have the PC/screen consumerate for the gear.

Big assumption though, and if they're not going to do that don't bother with anything like this rig. Just use the phone camera.

 

[Bobsyeruncle]

Because there and now it is an amazing car thats the best for the time and it would give 7 to 8 years very high performance motoring.

So why would you want a Ferrari?
Anyway, I'll leave you to your endless quest for perfection.....and hopefully one day you can buy it....

 

[SFTPhotography]

So why would you want a Ferrari?

Dude...

"Why would you want a Ferrari?"

How could you even ask that [emoji1787][emoji1787][emoji1787][emoji1787]

Its late, good night Robert and I think I've offered everything I possibly can to this thread and I hope the OP picks the a7 r3 or r4 model and gets out there and takes lovely images on it.

 

[snerkler]

Dude...

"Why would you want a Ferrari?"

How could you even ask that [emoji1787][emoji1787][emoji1787][emoji1787]

Its late, good night Robert and I think I've offered everything I possibly can to this thread and I hope the OP picks the a7 r3 or r4 model and gets out there and takes lovely images on it.

TBH I get your sentiment. I tend to buy the best I can afford at the time but it still doesn't stop me desiring something better if it comes along, that being said that doesn't mean I buy everything that comes along

Also regarding detail, I kind of see your point on that too. I look back at some old photos of mine and wish they were better quality, but these were a 6mp compact camera. I'm still happy with photos taken with my 16mp Olympus M4/3 and I'm not sure at which point (if ever) I'll get to the point where they start to look poor, let alone 24mp and 36mp.

 

[SFTPhotography]

TBH I get your sentiment. I tend to buy the best I can afford at the time but it still doesn't stop me desiring something better if it comes along, that being said that doesn't mean I buy everything that comes along [emoji38]

Also regarding detail, I kind of see your point on that too. I look back at some old photos of mine and wish they were better quality, but these were a 6mp compact camera. I'm still happy with photos taken with my 16mp Olympus M4/3 and I'm not sure at which point (if ever) I'll get to the point where they start to look poor, let alone 24mp and 36mp.

Neither do I of course buy everything that comes along. I probably upgrade every 2nd or 3rd product life cycle though

This extra detail stuff - it exists at 100% preview mode. I rather enjoy it, I find it brings an extra bit of life to a picture. Thats just me.

GAS can be a powerful thing.

 

[Stephen L]

Oh to have the money to buy the best.

 

[nandbytes]

Oh to have the money to buy the best.

I think we are kinda getting ahead of ourselves, we need to keep OP's budget in mind. A7III is perfectly capable landscape body for his budget.
Yes we'd all love to buy the latest and greatest but money kinda gets in the way
Even more so if you are crazy like me and try to pay you taxes

I'd love to own a kit per my uses
GFX100 - landscape
A9II - sports
R5 - animals/wildlife
A7C - street and travels
macro... May be even a sigma foveon FF when it's out because why not
One of the specialised astro cameras with proper cooling and tracking gear for astrophotography

And not to mention a person to carry all my gear like a caddie who will also keep my creative juices flowing by constantly providing me moral support.

 

[LongLensPhotography]

And not to mention a person to carry all my gear like a caddie who will also keep my creative juices flowing by constantly providing me moral support.

You can have your wish https://www.bostondynamics.com/spot

 

[snerkler]

I think we are kinda getting ahead of ourselves, we need to keep OP's budget in mind. A7III is perfectly capable landscape body for his budget.
Yes we'd all love to buy the latest and greatest but money kinda gets in the way
Even more so if you are crazy like me and try to pay you taxes

I'd love to own a kit per my uses
GFX100 - landscape
A9II - sports
R5 - animals/wildlife
A7C - street and travels
macro... May be even a sigma foveon FF when it's out because why not
One of the specialised astro cameras with proper cooling and tracking gear for astrophotography

And not to mention a person to carry all my gear like a caddie who will also keep my creative juices flowing by constantly providing me moral support.

TBH an A7RIV at £2k is hard to look past, assuming they’re happy to buy grey

 

[SFTPhotography]

TBH an A7RIV at £2k is hard to look past, assuming they’re happy to buy grey

I know...personally I think the OP should do it.

 

[nandbytes]

TBH an A7RIV at £2k is hard to look past, assuming they’re happy to buy grey

then buy one lens for all landscape photography?
I find that more limiting and creatively limiting than lack of pixels tbh.