Speedflash Studio Yay or Nay?

AnthonyHunt1984

AnthonyHunt1984

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Anthony
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Hi Guys,

So I have been taking photos of dogs predominantly due to the access i have fostering them (25 total this year). I have a Canon 5D Mark II + 3 decent lenses ranging in focal length 24-200mm. I also have the Canon Speedlight EX II Flash that has pretty much sat in my bag with me afraid to use it.

Recently I have been experimenting with it for fills in daylight with some good results. I also own a backdrop stand, clamps, 2x backdrops and 2x vinyl floors. I really wanted to utilise these to take my pet portraiture to the next level. In order to do so I need to improve my lighting set up/understand it more.

Its worth mentioning I also have 2x continuous lights with 3200k + 5500k bulbs for filming purposes, i have used them with 5500k bulbs for product photography in the past but my flat gets as hot as the sun!

My question is whether or not I could build a studio using speedlights?

Eg. Yongnuo Yn560 III x2 with my Canon EX II and remote trigger? (Hair light, Key light, Background Light...can use reflector for fill or another light for background?

What are your thoughts?

P.S. I am struggling with correct exposure when using the flash in manual, I'm effectively guessing what strength to use so am forced to revert to ETTL mode. Any help on that would be appreciated also, thanks for taking the time to read my essay!

Regards,

Anthony
 
Hi Anthony.

I'm just a hobbyist but enjoy taking pet/dog portraits. I have only ever used one softbox with my Canon speedlight plus a reflector. this has given me some nice photos. I don't think I could light them with the 3 lights as you suggest, well not in my little space or in peoples front rooms. Plus they move about a bit and the lighting could need to be precise. That said thats the skill level i'm at.

Re: The flash.I use mine in manual normally about 1/4 power and adjust from there. Get a Fluffy teddy or something and get the light right on that before you get the subject it wont be far off you can tweak then.
Can post some images to show what I ended up with if your wondering. Might help, then again you might think that there not what your after.

Have fun.

Gaz
 
Hi Gaz,

Thanks for the reply. Yes images would be great...i can't seem to upload any but i think its due to the JPEG being highest quality and therefore too many pixels. I must admit the continuous lights are too harsh even though they are in soft boxes, again due to limited space. Im not too worried about the background light as that can be done in post or by using a lamp or something. Its the hair light thats important probably more so for portraits of people than dogs but i tend to do a bit of everything.

Anthony
 
Yes it's easily possible.

But the 'ease' and 'cheapness' of a speedlight studio is often overestimated.

For each speedlight you need to realistically add the cost of a bracket to make a price comparison with studio flashes, and for a small saving in £s you get less power, a longer recycle time and lack of modelling light.

Wherever you have mains power, proper studio light is preferable every time.
 
AnthonyHunt1984 said:
Yes images would be great
Click to expand...
Hi Anthony. To post examples I resize my images down to either 800 pixels along the longest side or 1024 longest side.
Here are a few images I have taken I have not done lots but this as worked good enough for me. Like I say I am no expert. Hope it helps.

Gaz

1
IMG_8066.jpg

2
IMG_8150.jpg

3
IMG_8256.jpg

4
IMG_6948.jpg
 
Nice Gaz!

Better than the results I've been getting..

What background type do you use? and where is your light/reflector set up?

I have an issue with vinyl floors as I have carpet and it indents when walked on which makes it look false not sure what solution except shooting up and eye level (which is preferred with animals anyway)

Phil the reason I wanted to go down the route of speed lights was due to portability and cost. I was hoping to achieve professional standard images on location with the least kit. I was thinking 3/4 speed lights + trigger using various soft boxes or light modifiers?
 
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I have been looking into it further and I'm now confused. I was thinking about getting 2 Yongnuo 560 III Speddlights to go with my Canon EX430 II Speddlight which I know only functions as a slave. I thought the Yongnuo 560 would trigger the others but i don't think it does?

Does a wireless trigger like the Yongnuo ones or Pocket wizard fire the one its connected to and then that flash trigger the rest set in S1 mode?

If i got 2x Yongnuo 560 III and trigger/reciever would that give me full control over the whole set up minus diffusers stands etc obviously?
 
Hi Anthony. Happy that those were of some benefit for you. The background here is an Ikea roller blind a mid sized one in grey. You can tweak the colour in post if you like or leave as is.
The softbox is to the left or right side (can see in eyes on some) and just above eye level with a reflector opposite or whereever it catches the light.
For most of the photos I have taken I get the pooches up on a box of some kind as I only wanted to take portraits so the floor was not an issue. Easier to take them when they are off the ground too. Well it was for me.
The blind goes down to floor level. People normaly use some planks of laminate to lay on the floor and then lay your vinyl on that to stop the indents.
I bought a paper back ground since these photos but still go back to the blind as it works very well and can be took anywhere and drapped over stands.
I also have yongou triggers the older ones 603s so don't do ttl these work well though and can set off many flashes at once. One on camera and one on each speedlight. No idea about S1 mode !

Gaz
 
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Phil V said:
Yes it's easily possible.

But the 'ease' and 'cheapness' of a speedlight studio is often overestimated.

For each speedlight you need to realistically add the cost of a bracket to make a price comparison with studio flashes, and for a small saving in £s you get less power, a longer recycle time and lack of modelling light.

Wherever you have mains power, proper studio light is preferable every time.
Click to expand...
What Phil said.

Basically, speedlights are just so much harder to use, for the reasons above, and although it's very easy to get sufficient quantity of light, what matters is proper control of light, which is where studio flash wins every time.
And don't underestimate the importance of fast recycling, especially with subjects that don't keep still and where multiple shots are needed in quick succession.
Getting the exposure right is easy, just shoot in raw (to allow room for error) and in the absence of a flash meter, just chimp.
 
AnthonyHunt1984 said:
I have been looking into it further and I'm now confused. I was thinking about getting 2 Yongnuo 560 III Speddlights to go with my Canon EX430 II Speddlight which I know only functions as a slave. I thought the Yongnuo 560 would trigger the others but i don't think it does?

Does a wireless trigger like the Yongnuo ones or Pocket wizard fire the one its connected to and then that flash trigger the rest set in S1 mode?

If i got 2x Yongnuo 560 III and trigger/reciever would that give me full control over the whole set up minus diffusers stands etc obviously?
Click to expand...
Mixing your EX430 with YN manual flashes isn't the simplest but it's certainly possible.

You'd need to buy:
A YN560tx
However many YN560 III's you want
A RF602 for the canon speedlight (won't allow you to change the power settings remotely, but will trigger it)

A flash bracket for each speedlight, a lightstand for each and whatever modifiers you need.

So a £60 flashgun on a bracket has to be compared to a cheap studiohead which costs approx £70, IMHO it's a no-brainer.
 
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Using what you have and working in smaller rooms I would probably just use the speedlight for "reverse/bounce fill" or directly for the occasional "hard light" shot. You don't mention having a light stand, but you'll want something to get the light off camera, at least for the direct hard light shots. Forget the hot lights...

If buying additional/new, I agree with getting mains powered heads... something small at around 200-350 WS should be more than enough for small spaces. And it doesn't have to be complex, they could all be triggered optically by a speedlight/popup set at minimum power (or used for fill).

I can't really tell you how to determine the power setting... You have to know how much light your strobe puts out at full power and a given distance, and then you have to use the ISL to modify that output level for the current distance and a couple of other things... And with a zooming speedlight "output" at full power varies... Basically, it's doable but I wouldn't bother.
What is more typical is that you wind up with a "known starting point" either due to trial and error, or just experience/repetition... and then you use the ISL/experience to make ballpark adjustments off of that.
 
Wow so much info to absorb haha but thank you both.

I have 2x light stands, a boom stand and various mini tripods and normal tripods so just need some hot shoe converters to mount the speed lights on them.

So you think strobes are the way forward?

If I wanted to use my Canon EX II off camera what do I need?

If I'm outside I would use that and only that for fills and use my reflector as a diffuser panel for harsh sunlight if it's too sunny.

The studio based set up is what I need though and lighting is key. As mentioned I do pet photography but also do product, food, portrait work so need a versatile setup I can set up on my flat 5mx5m and on location in people's homes.
 
You're probably best off with a set of yongnuo 622C triggers for the speedlight.

The more fixed your studio setup is, the more I would lean towards AC strobes. 250-300 WS Godox/Lencarta/Neewer/etc... The more travel/remote the possibilities the more I would lean towards battery powered options... but there are a lot of tradeoffs just to not need AC power. You can invert DC battery power to run the AC strobes for remote use, but that's fairly expensive (maybe at some later date if it should prove to be a need rather than a nicety).
 
AnthonyHunt1984 said:
Ok so how about this set.

http://www.wexphotographic.com/buy-...duct=1015681&gclid=cnw7gsuyxdecfdiv0wodpnmmxw

Only 200w but reviews seem to say you get a good bang for buck and output seems higher than similar comparisons at 200w. Those paired with my Canon 430ex II Speedlight working as a backlight or fill?

Do you have any better suggestions for the price or cheaper?
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As a rule buying lighting from a camera shop is like buying cameras from a computer store, you might find a bargain, but you're more likely to be sold something unsuitable by someone who hasn't got a clue what they're talking about.

For similar money, Lencarta kit is better built, better specified and with a better warranty.

If you really want to go for cheap, you can get better kit cheaper without a warranty.
 
AnthonyHunt1984 said:
Ok so how about this set.

http://www.wexphotographic.com/buy-...duct=1015681&gclid=cnw7gsuyxdecfdiv0wodpnmmxw

Only 200w but reviews seem to say you get a good bang for buck and output seems higher than similar comparisons at 200w. Those paired with my Canon 430ex II Speedlight working as a backlight or fill?

Do you have any better suggestions for the price or cheaper?
Click to expand...
The modifiers in that kit aren't very good and you said you already have stands.
Personally, Lencarta Smartflash or Godox would be my choice... they both use the Godox triggering system for further system compatibility/development. I would lean towards the Godox for power/adjustability/cost but you don't get the same kind of service/warranty.
 
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My this thread just keeps on giving :) Loads of info in here.The general advice seems to be to buy strobes where poss. I guess different situations require or are better suited to various tools. Maybe because I have only used speedlights I feel safer using them over the strobes. I did borrow a strobe head and softbox to play with at home. It just felt clumsy and cluttered, the lead was just another thing in the way in my small space and if i'm honest I didnt even notice that the modeling light was showing me what shadows I was going to get. I know a bit dumb really :-(
Good luck shopping.

Gaz
 
So with the Godox head (I'll need 2) but also need to buy soft boxes?

Does each head need a trigger? (I saw it comes with it)

Also I'm assuming this attaches to my existing light stands? They are pretty standard.
 
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/302191925911

How about those with some Lencarta profold octobox / umbrella?

Would they need a trigger kit as well? And what would you pay for em?

Just thought, if I use my speed flash on lowest manual setting with good spread won't that trigger the lencarter heads if set up that way as slaves? Therefore won't need trigger and only need to buy those heads and modifier?
 
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I don't know enough about those specific heads to say, but I would think they would be adequate and the price is quite good. But they do not appear to be Godox/current remote system compatible. You will need at least one remote transmitter/receiver and the other head(s) can be triggered optically, or you could trigger them both with the speedlight optically. But remote control/power setting of each/all heads can be a very nice benefit of the current systems.

I would look to get a softbox around 90cm (with grid), my next choice would probably be a strip box at least that tall. I would *not* suggest a shoot through umbrella unless you are going for "fill the room" even/flat lighting. The heads/modifiers should fit any standard stand/boom.
 
sk66 said:
The modifiers in that kit aren't very good and you said you already have stands.
Personally, Lencarta Smartflash or Godox would be my choice... they both use the Godox triggering system for further system compatibility/development. I would lean towards the Godox for power/adjustability/cost but you don't get the same kind of service/warranty.
Click to expand...

Didn't you recommend those heads above?

My budget really can't exceed £200 all on tbh and need the heads/bulbs/transmitters and modifiers for that
 
AnthonyHunt1984 said:
Didn't you recommend those heads above?

My budget really can't exceed £200 all on tbh and need the heads/bulbs/transmitters and modifiers for that
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The current Smartflashes (or Godox) are the ones I suggested as they are Godox compatible and come with the remote system. The ones in the linked auction appear to be an older/discontinued model.
 
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I'm looking at the Godox unit now due to the price and comes with transmitter but can only afford 1 tbh what soft box do you recommend with it (you mentioned size but I'm assuming model makes a difference)
 
AnthonyHunt1984 said:
I'm looking at the Godox unit now due to the price and comes with transmitter but can only afford 1 tbh what soft box do you recommend with it (you mentioned size but I'm assuming model makes a difference)
Click to expand...

There are better made and less well made soft boxes and price does not always paint the correct picture. Size and shape are the real determining factors. Size might be limited by where you work but the bigger and closer to the subject, the softer the light.

Mike
 
Space wise I have about 4m (deep) x 3m (wide) to work in.

It's mainly going to be single person portrait, animals and product work (such as clothing, food and small items) that I'll be working on.

The Goldox 300w heads look like the best value without a warranty but through reading other threads I understand the modifiers etc are a huge part of making the most of the light.

I don't mind softboxes or octoboxes and set up time isn't a huge factor for me. I just want to know what's best for a typical 3 point set up (key, fill and hair/background) i.e. What heads, modifiers and transmitter to get at a modest budget and what role they would play.
 
Phil V said:
Yes it's easily possible.

But the 'ease' and 'cheapness' of a speedlight studio is often overestimated.

For each speedlight you need to realistically add the cost of a bracket to make a price comparison with studio flashes, and for a small saving in £s you get less power, a longer recycle time and lack of modelling light.

Wherever you have mains power, proper studio light is preferable every time.
Click to expand...

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/aw/d/B0...ords=Godox&dpPl=1&dpID=51KJJwKtQ6L&ref=plSrch

Saw you link these in another thread...are they similar to the ones on eBay? On is SK model and one DE but not sure on difference. Would you get the Goldox accessories as well from amazon? I get 5% discount on there
 
AnthonyHunt1984 said:
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/302191925911

How about those with some Lencarta profold octobox / umbrella?

Would they need a trigger kit as well? And what would you pay for em?

Just thought, if I use my speed flash on lowest manual setting with good spread won't that trigger the lencarter heads if set up that way as slaves? Therefore won't need trigger and only need to buy those heads and modifier?
Click to expand...
They're OK but they'll go for over £100 because they're popular.

Bang for buck, new Godox units make more sense, unless you can get used stuff at £40 -£50 a head.
 
AnthonyHunt1984 said:
P.S. I am struggling with correct exposure when using the flash in manual, I'm effectively guessing what strength to use so am forced to revert to ETTL mode. Any help on that would be appreciated also, thanks for taking the time to read my essay!
Click to expand...

I often use a flash meter. I also use the histogram, blinkies or shoot tethered.

AnthonyHunt1984 said:
I must admit the continuous lights are too harsh even though they are in soft boxes
Click to expand...

That's unlikely to have anything to do with whether the lights are continuous or not. Photons are photons, they don't know where they came from*

*smart ar*e reply involving quantum entanglement not relevant
 
GreenNinja67 said:
You won't need 300w/s lights in that space, 200w/s is plenty in a small studio
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Absolutely.
Though the 'weakest' lights in the Godox range are the 300's and Lencarta sell something 'very similar' as 200, knowing that Lencarta wouldn't want to exaggerate power claims, I'm guessing they're nearer 200 than 300 ;)
 
AnthonyHunt1984 said:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/aw/d/B0...ords=Godox&dpPl=1&dpID=51KJJwKtQ6L&ref=plSrch

Saw you link these in another thread...are they similar to the ones on eBay? On is SK model and one DE but not sure on difference. Would you get the Goldox accessories as well from amazon? I get 5% discount on there
Click to expand...
sk66 said:
Godox doesn't have the DE model on their site so I suspect it's older, maybe the precursor to the SK(?).
Click to expand...
The SK looks a bit 'cheaper' built than the DE (microswitches instead of dials for power etc), there's loads of inexpensive S fit softboxes, personally I wouldn't head for the cheapest, this looks OK though.
 
Just to say, if you're serious about studio photography, strobe heads are absolutely the way forward. Listen to Phil (and others).

You could do a heck of a lot with a single head like the Lencarta Smartflash-2. It also has a slightly faster flash duration than most which might be handy, and it's a bit brighter than other 200Ws heads (though you'll not need it flat out for solo portraits). Also get a white/silver reflector.

Use the Canon speedlight as an accent/hair light, or in other situations that play to its strengths. You'll need another compatible radio receiver/trigger for that.

Let us know how you get on (y)
 
Yea I think the advice from Phil and others has been very helpful.

I am going with 1x 200w Lencarta or Goldox 300w with a decent soft box to fit on one of my light stands. Will use this as key light.

I will use my speedlight and snood on my other light stand (need to get a hotshoe converter) and have it fire from main head flash. Will use this as hair light.

I also have a large circular reflector (diffusion, silver and gold) to use as a fill.

What do you think?

Does background need lighting?
 
AnthonyHunt1984 said:
Yea I think the advice from Phil and others has been very helpful.

I am going with 1x 200w Lencarta or Goldox 300w with a decent soft box to fit on one of my light stands. Will use this as key light.

I will use my speedlight and snood on my other light stand (need to get a hotshoe converter) and have it fire from main head flash. Will use this as hair light.

I also have a large circular reflector (diffusion, silver and gold) to use as a fill.

What do you think?

Does background need lighting?
Click to expand...
I don't think your speedlight has optical triggering capability, nor a PC port... You will need some form of hotshoe trigger, but optical ones are cheap. I would suggest an S-fit adaptor for mounting modifiers/stand, and it will make using a hotshoe trigger easier.

Background *usually* needs lighting (unless going for dark). But you don't have to go "all-in" right off the start... that's part of the reason for the "Godox system compatibility" recommendation.
 
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