Strange "Dust" Artefacts Over Multiple Different Negatives

Chungle456

Chungle456

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Peter
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Hi all

I have been having the same "dust" marks problem with the last 3 negatives I developed. What is strange is this problem has repeatedly appeared on the negatives despite the fact I've been using different film, different developer and even fresh stop bath & fixer. It even appears over the negatives regardless of the lens shot with. So the only constant has been the camera body (Rollei SL66).

Here is a scanned negative that shows the problem, with a zoomed in snapshot under that.





artefacts.jpg

The negative above was shot on Ilford FP4. Developed with Rodinal for 15 mins 1:50 dilution, with a 1 min stop bath then 8 min fix and 15 min wash. These "dust" artefacts appeared across every negative on the roll. The roll was developed with freshly mixed stop bath and fixer.

They also appeared exactly like above on another roll of Ilford FP4 developed with Kodak HC-110, with a 1 min stop bath then 8 min fix and 15 min wash. And then on a roll of Fuji Acros II developed with Kodak HC-110, with a 1 min stop bath then 8 min fix and 15 min wash.

It seems the "dust" spots are on the film as soon as I take it out the tank which means they have occurred during development, and so its not an issue of the films gathering dust in the negative drying cabinet. EDIT - *The marks are ingrained into the negatives and not on top of the surface of the film.*


I am completely lost as to what is causing these annoying artefacts. I would really appreciate it anyone has any ideas what is causing this?

Thanks!
 
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It is possible your camera is causing this somehow.
Do you have more than one camera?
 
How are you printing the shots? If a scanner is involved, I would guess that the glass needs cleaning.
 
Can you scan one again, then move it on the scanner bed and re-scan? If the artifact pattern remains unchanged (dot for dot), it is on the negative.
 
Check the pressure plate and any rollers etc in the camera body, they could be marking the neg in camera.
 
Did you use water straight from the tap for mixing chems, or was it filtered or otherwise purified?
 
I have 2 film cameras, the other is 35mm though and I've never had this problem with that camera. I checked the pressure plate and rollers but everything seems normal I think.

The marks are 100% ingrained into the negatives. I don't need to scan for them to show up. They can be seen very clear using the lightbox + magnifier at the darkroom I go to, as soon as they dried. They are also smooth to touch and the marks cant be scratched off.

"Did you use water straight from the tap for mixing chems, or was it filtered or otherwise purified?"

The darkroom I go to uses water straight from the tap, but its based in the scottish highlands so has very clean water and nobody has ever had issues like this.
 
Looks like scum to me, that is usually a water problem.
It can also be a backing paper problem when paper fibres come loose and stick to the film from poor or damp storage.
Have a look at the removed backing paper with magnification. It will show as a more Matt almost hairy surface usually in small patches, but can be all over.

I have seen it when processing old found film.
 
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Hi Terry

I do believe the 2 rolls of FP4 I developed were expired by maybe a year? I got them cheap off another darkroom member so am not sure how they were stored before I got my hands on them. The Fuji Acros however was bought new by me and has been stored properly. I annoyingly have binned the backing paper, but still have more of the expired FP4 so will check out the backing paper next time I use a roll.
 
Also, with regard to the water. The night I developed my last roll, I was with other darkroom members who also developed 5 rolls that night using the same stop bath, fixer and water out the tap, and they didnt have this problem with any of their rolls. I believe they were using HP5 though.
 
IIRC I once had something that looked similar on 4x5 when I think what happened was I hadn't loaded the sheet correctly and I assume the emulsion had come into contact with the dark slide. That seems unlikely with 120 but could it be that somehow the film is coming into contact with something in the SL66 back? If you can get a backing paper from somewhere you could reassemble a processed film with the backing paper, put it in the back, wind it on a bit and then pull the darkslide out to see if the film is touching the darkslide. IYSWIM
 
Chungle456 said:
Also, with regard to the water. The night I developed my last roll, I was with other darkroom members who also developed 5 rolls that night using the same stop bath, fixer and water out the tap, and they didnt have this problem with any of their rolls. I believe they were using HP5 though.
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I was going to ask how old the fixer was and was there any chance of precipitated out fixer / silver crystals but if other people using the same line did not have a problem it is a redundant question.

I have had similar problems with old fixer which were solved by re fixing in fresh fixer and re washing, not sure if the fixer was taken back into solution or just dissolved in the subsequent wash.
 
Wouldn't a film back issue have more of a uniform and consistent marking on the film? I'm beginning to think it could be a fixer problem. Perhaps the reason it didnt show up on the other persons negatives was because they were developing 35mm? Could 120 fp4 and Acros be more susceptible to bad fixer?
 
Chungle456 said:
Wouldn't a film back issue have more of a uniform and consistent marking on the film? I'm beginning to think it could be a fixer problem. Perhaps the reason it didnt show up on the other persons negatives was because they were developing 35mm? Could 120 fp4 and Acros be more susceptible to bad fixer?
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It desn't seem at all likely to me that 135 would be less affected by fixer precipitate than 120. The latter has smaller magnification, and so dust and other issues should be reduced on the final image, other things being equal, surely?
 
I do not believe at all that it is a fixer problem.
 
I'm going to develop a roll of film at home instead of the darkroom next time as this problem has never shown up when I've done that. Just waiting on some new chemicals and film to arrive in the post.
 
Update. Developed a roll at home. New developer, water stop bath and newly mixed fixer. Zero artefacts! Not sure what the original problem was, but developing at home and not at the darkroom has solved it :D
 
Chungle456 said:
Update. Developed a roll at home. New developer, water stop bath and newly mixed fixer. Zero artefacts! Not sure what the original problem was, but developing at home and not at the darkroom has solved it :D
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looks like you caught something nasty using communal facilities.
(probably fibre particles in one of the solutions. somebody tried to process a backing paper???)
 
Being a darkroom with over 40 members I really have no idea how the chemicals have been used unfortunately, and most chemicals will get used to exhaustion due to economy. Once thing I did do differently however is make sure my final wash water was the same temperature as the chemicals used in development. Before I would always just put water straight from the tap in. This would be pretty cold water. Perhaps this could cause issues?
 
Chungle456 said:
Being a darkroom with over 40 members I really have no idea how the chemicals have been used unfortunately, and most chemicals will get used to exhaustion due to economy. Once thing I did do differently however is make sure my final wash water was the same temperature as the chemicals used in development. Before I would always just put water straight from the tap in. This would be pretty cold water. Perhaps this could cause issues?
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It could, but not like the examples that you showed. Dirty water could leave similar deposits. and a massive temperature change could cause reticulation, Though that has been massively rare since the seventies.
I tried to reticulate a film for the effect, at about that time, and failed miserably. where as in the 50's only a few degrees would do it. as would the addition of washing up liquid. before the wash.
 
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