Strobes with UPS

aenkill

aenkill

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Sara Nowak
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Hello,

I recently bought two lamps for my home studio setup - Quantuum Move 200. I was wondering if there's a way of powering these with UPS so I can use them outside too. I know there are dedicated battery packs but none of them are compatible with these lamps and basically I'd have to buy one dedicated lamp with battery pack for the price of two lamps and softboxes etc.
 
A UPS isn't what you need, but yes you can buy a battery pack.

Which one is available depends on whereabouts you are.

In the States there's the Vagabond, elsewhere there's the Godox LP750 or LP800, but finding a local supplier is the trick.
 
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I'm based in UK and I want some cheap lightweight strobes that I can take to the customer or set at home. Since I have access to the studio (but it's quite far from my home) I don't want to spend too much money on it. I just want to avoid driving 30 min to the studio to grab the lamps etc. I want something I can use anytime and anywhere.

I can buy dedicated strobes with battery packs but they're more expensive. I can buy:
-one lamp with dedicated battery pack for £290
-two lamps (no dedicated battery pack for this model), two good quality sofboxes (octa 80cm and 80x120cm softbox) with wireless triggers for £230

I would rather have two indoor lamps because when shooting outside I don't usually use any kind of flash but I just to try it and maybe use it occasionally. It's raining quite often here and I don't want to spend money on somethig I will only use once in a while. This is why I thought of buying UPS - they're much cheaper than dedicated battery packs and well, they're source of power (kind of) so why not? I just want to make sure it will work.
 
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I'm not sure that a UPS would be the right way to go either, for one thing, they weigh an awful lot, for example the entry level APC unit is around 7Kg ...
 
I don't mind the weight, I just need to be sure it will work. As I said I don't want to spend so much money on something I want to try just for fun.

Dedicated battery packs for studio lamps are expensive (about £250-300), even entry level ones. Quantuum battery pack that I guess works only with certain Quantuum lamps models (DP-300 and DP-600) costs about £80 but I would have to buy Quantuum DP-300 lamps which cost £150 each. I'm buying Quantuum Move 200 for £70 each.
 
aenkill said:
Hello,

I recently bought two lamps for my home studio setup - Quantuum Move 200. I was wondering if there's a way of powering these with UPS so I can use them outside too. I know there are dedicated battery packs but none of them are compatible with these lamps and basically I'd have to buy one dedicated lamp with battery pack for the price of two lamps and softboxes etc.
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A ups is not what you think it is they are designed to provide in some cases only a few minutes of battery power so that a device can be safely switched off or connected to an alternative power source.

You need either lamps with batteries or lamps that you can use one of the third party battery packs with.
 
f/2.8 said:
A ups is not what you think it is they are designed to provide in some cases only a few minutes of battery power so that a device can be safely switched off or connected to an alternative power source.

You need either lamps with batteries or lamps that you can use one of the third party battery packs with.
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what he said :)

a UPS at best will last 20 minutes and that is weather you use it or not, once it's switched on they drain the battery at an alarming rate

you could put your own power supply together using an inverter and a sealed lead acid battery ( gel cell as i call em ) the inverter needs to be pure sinewave but the trouble with doing this is unless you can find a cheap pure sinewave inverter ( 500w should do ) you could probably buy a dedicated PSU for the same cost or maybe cheaper
 
I know what UPS is ;) Once, I was building server rack during my work placement and it had UPS that could power 5 servers and network equipment for up to 15min. Even if I get 100 flashes with cheaper UPS I'd be happy, it's just for fun.

I've seen people claiming that they used UPS and people saying that it did not work at all (older threads on some other photo forms) - so somebody must have tried it before. I just want to be 100% sure it will work and I thought that somebody here used it.
 
TBH I think you're looking at the wrong answer. As a portable solution that's closer to the power of your studio lights, speedlights are cheap and easily portable.

But then it depends what you want to achieve, you need lots more power for overpowering the midday sun, 600Ws. Although a lighter weight solution if you pick your timing might be a Godox AD360 or Lencarta Atom. Right down to using speedlights at Sunset.

There's a lot of choice available depending on exactly what your requirements are, I think you've jumped to a 'solution' without thinking through the requirement. Your research has already suggested you were going up a blind alley, I'd suggest it's time for a rethink.
 
I have a UPS that would run them for a day, but you will need a fork lift to move it! haha, I did run some small 300ws strobes from an inverter and deep cycle batt a few months back for a job.
 
I will be mainly using strobes at home studio/customer's place - that their main purpose. I just thought that since I'm buying them I might try to shoot outdoors as well. I love working with natural light but I wanted to try something new but if it won't work with cheap UPS or something similar it's not a big deal. I might consider buying something just for outdoors at some point but not now. I still have my speedlight ;)
 
@simonbarker, it's more expensive than dedicated battery packs ;)

Really, I just want to know if UPS will work with my lamps even if it weights 10kg or will last for 50 flashes.

@cosmicma, dou you know rough cost of DIY battery pack? I would be able to put it all together no problem, I love tinkering :)
 
How long is a piece of string? answer, as long as it is

How many flashes will I get by using a UPS? answer as many as you get

How many flashes from a proper power supply or a battery powered flash? Answer, a damn site more than playing around with a UPS that is not designed to do that and the UPS will be far heavier to get the same amount of flashes

Mike
 
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I said it thousand times - I don't care how heavy it is, or if it lasts shorter than dedicated battery packs - of course it will last shorter because it's five times cheaper. If I wanted to use outdoor lamps for professional/customer shoots I would get dedicated battery pack and lamp. All I want is to use it from time to time for fun. I need to know if it will work at all. You don't have to tell me that it's better to use X or Y - I know that :p
 
aenkill said:
@simonbarker, it's more expensive than dedicated battery packs ;)
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Like most things, it depends. I once bought 3 for about £200.

To answer the question you keep asking, a quick google says for it to work you'll need a UPS with a pure sine wave output and it'll need to be fairly high end to handle the draw of a powerful flash head.

So I'm going to assume it's a bad idea to use a UPS as that's not what it's designed for (as others mention a UPS is designed to provide a stable power supply even when the main source isn't available for a short amount of time, it doesn't replace it).
 
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I wouldn't hesitate to buy 3 for £200 :D, I will have to keep my eyes open. I've read about that sine wave and it's been bugging me, some people were mentioning it as well. I guess, maybe some UPS' offer this kind of wave but it would be like a lottery.

Thanks a lot!
 
aenkill said:
@simonbarker, it's more expensive than dedicated battery packs ;)

Really, I just want to know if UPS will work with my lamps even if it weights 10kg or will last for 50 flashes.

@cosmicma, dou you know rough cost of DIY battery pack? I would be able to put it all together no problem, I love tinkering :)
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steve smiths suggestion is probably the best bet if you intend to go with this, something like a 1kw suitcase generator

or if your intent on going the sealed lead acid route iv'e no idea what the current cost of the bits you would need

it looks like a typical 250w studio head draws just short of 300w during it's charge cycle and a typical 500w studio head draws around 400w during it's charge cycle ( not including modelling lamps )
a 20 amp hour lead acid battery would give you 30 mins ( approx ) continuous use
the inverter you would need would have to be at least 750 watt or nearer to 1kw to run 500w studio heads, 200w heads you might get away with 500 - 750w inverter
the reality with the specs of inverters is they might say 500w or 1kw but this is their peak output and the nominal output is more like half the given spec, in other words if your planning on using 500w heads you need to double the figure when looking for an inverter but even a 200w head is going to draw close to 300w on it's re charge cycle

the thing you need to do is look at the prices of 500w + pure sinewave inverters and sealed lead acid motorbike batteries and work out if it's worth it

it's easy enough to cobble together but don't forget the leads from the battery to the inverter will be carrying anything upto 20 amps or so they need to be quite substantial or they will get pretty warm or worst case melt

i did an experiment a few yeas ago with a slave flash bulb ( about 50w ) and a cheap 150w inverter fed with one of those cheap car booster packs, it did work but as far as flash is concerned it was useless, it was obvious you needed a lot more power
 
aenkill said:
I said it thousand times - I don't care how heavy it is, or if it lasts shorter than dedicated battery packs - of course it will last shorter because it's five times cheaper. If I wanted to use outdoor lamps for professional/customer shoots I would get dedicated battery pack and lamp. All I want is to use it from time to time for fun. I need to know if it will work at all. You don't have to tell me that it's better to use X or Y - I know that :p
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You've scoured the Internet, and turned up reports from people who've tried, and mostly failed. But you still think there's a chance that someone who has experience will randomly find this post?

Forgive me, but this is a properly 'niche' experiment, and you'll find people here who can advise, and help with the maths, but you're really unlikely to find someone who has done this and succeeded.
 
Steve Smith said:
A lightweight generator might be a better option.


Steve.
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There ARE a few pure sine wave generators that can be used to power studio heads, but they're expensive.
"Ordinary" genertators are very likely to destroy any modern flash head.
 
Why? Modern switch mode power supplies which rectify the incoming power couldn't care less what the waveform is.

Also, a simple generator which does not use an inverter circuit, i.e. the output is directly from the generator winding, cannot be anything but a sine wave.


Steve.
 
Steve,

I can't answser your point on a technical level, but I've seen the insides of quite a few flash heads that have been destroyed by connecting them to gennies.
 
I have the Innovatronix XT Explorer, these turn up secondhand on Ebay every now than then, mine was under £100. The 2 batteries are sealed lead acid and wired in series, cheap at £15 each and easy to change over, there's a video on Youtube. It happily powers my Lencarta 200 w/s or Interfit 300 w/s heads, plus anything else that needs a pure sine wave input. This provides a lot of power which would need something in the order of 6 speedlights to acheive and a re-charge time penalty. Disadvantages are that it is quite heavy and it is not waterproofed in any way so safety needs careful consideration. A Godox AD360 head power unit looks to be featherwight by comparison and if money was no object (it is!), then that is the route I would have taken. I also bought a cheap golf trolley which will be used to transport the power pack, heads, stands, light modifiers and superclamps to and from location. This was the cheapest working solution for me since I do this for fun and not to make a living where time and convenience are much more important.
 
HarveyM said:
I have the Innovatronix XT Explorer, these turn up secondhand on Ebay every now than then, mine was under £100. The 2 batteries are sealed lead acid and wired in series, cheap at £15 each and easy to change over, there's a video on Youtube. It happily powers my Lencarta 200 w/s or Interfit 300 w/s heads, plus anything else that needs a pure sine wave input. This provides a lot of power which would need something in the order of 6 speedlights to acheive and a re-charge time penalty. Disadvantages are that it is quite heavy and it is not waterproofed in any way so safety needs careful consideration. A Godox AD360 head power unit looks to be featherwight by comparison and if money was no object (it is!), then that is the route I would have taken. I also bought a cheap golf trolley which will be used to transport the power pack, heads, stands, light modifiers and superclamps to and from location. This was the cheapest working solution for me since I do this for fun and not to make a living where time and convenience are much more important.
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Do you have any pictures of your golf trolley set up?
 
Phil V said:
Do you have any pictures of your golf trolley set up?
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Not yet as it is work in progress, but the inspiration came from this site

http://mcpactions.com/2014/08/04/lights/

I will mount the power supply where the bag is located on the illustration using U bolts and metal tubing. I want to add a large Peli type plastic box above it to carry the heads. I see the heads going into the box along with cables, remotes etc and some plastic tubing for a light stand. I have a Lastolite expanding light pole (A2413) which will be attached with Superclamps so that the trolley itself acts as a light support. The second light will need to go onto a normal stand but probably needs some guy ropes to keep it secure. The secondhand trolley I got is a folder, which was important so it fits in the rear of my car.
 
Thank you for all suggestions and ideas. Seems like I'll have to wait and look for some used stuff on eBay but it was worth asking to be 100% sure ;) I've seen so many cool DIY photography projects I thought maybe someone found a solution to that as well.

I do like the golf trolley set up, very clever. I could use shopping trolley for smaller equipment instead of my backpack.
 
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