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It's Bowens aka S fit.
and help to keep the site free for all
It's Bowens aka S fit.
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S fit (Bowen’s type)
Not stirring but almost every brand of modifier is produced in China - including Profoto.
And then we run into the ‘real’ problem with Chinese manufacturers, once they’ve been given a design to build, the market is flooded with clones, some good - some not.
Again - your safest bet is to buy from an established UK company, to avoid risk.
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Looking into Kino range from UK supplier.
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I had a play with the Lencarta version some years ago - and compared to my previous experience of flash heads, it’s like being transported in time.
Watching a mains flash shoot at 10fps is challenging to even those of us who’ve tried to keep up with the technology.
If this was in the lighting section @HoppyUK would have visited by now, he’s tested most of this stuff for magazine reviews.
Edit - without looking at the kino I’d assumed it was same as the superfast.
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I just phoned Lencarta and spoke to a nice and knowlegable chap there who said the Godox AD400 Pro is the equivalent of the Elinchrom BRX500. But, the BRX500 is £455 new on WEX and the Godox ED400 (which is not as powerful) sells for £608, which is way more than the Elinchrom.
https://www.lencarta.com/lencarta-superfast-pro-400ws-fla020?search=superfast+pro&description=true
The Lencarta Superfast Pro 400WS cost £454 too, which is the same as the Elinchrom and according to the man at Lencarta, this Superfast model is the equivalent to the BRX500 too.
Also, looking at the rear of the Godox QS 600 and the back of the Kono 2 they are different, the buttons on the Kino 2 are different so although they appear to be re-branded, it looks like Godox are using cheaper components (even if just the buttons and the dial) on the Kino stuff.
https://www.lencarta.com/lencarta-superfast-pro-400ws-fla020?search=superfast+pro&description=true
The Lencarta Superfast Pro 400WS cost £454 too, which is the same as the Elinchrom and according to the man at Lencarta, this Superfast model is the equivalent to the BRX500 too.
Also, looking at the rear of the Godox QS 600 and the back of the Kono 2 they are different, the buttons on the Kino 2 are different so although they appear to be re-branded, it looks like Godox are using cheaper components (even if just the buttons and the dial) on the Kino stuff.
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I'm pretty sure that Android is free to anyone that wants it so I don't see how that ban can be enforced. Its also rumoured that that Google wants to dump Android (and chrome os) for a new multi-device OS that works across phones, tablets laptops etc. Its called Fuchsia and its expected to be free as well.
https://www.techradar.com/news/google-fuchsia
So the cost to the US and Google of Chinese companies moving to something other than Android will be the best part of nothing. Indeed Google might just be cheering them on to help kill off Android* and push the adoption of Fuchsia in the US market.
Stopping Chinese companies from getting access to Google products such as the App Store etc however is a different thing.
But on the subject of lighting, I would go for Elinchrom based on personal experience only.
Regards...
*Android is a nasty bit of crap OS filled with security holes and frankly deserves to die a quick death for the benefit of all.
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That's just what Pixapro call it, it's the Godox QS 600 II so search for that but I only suggested that head as it seemed relatively comparable to a BRX 500.
In your shoes I don't think I'd buy the same three heads, I would have gone for one 'higher end' head as the key then cheaper or more versatile heads for the rest. You could for example make your third or fourth head an AD200 which gives you options those mains powered units don't (or maybe it's useless to you, I'm just trying to get you to consider your options).
Again it's a battery powered head versus a mains powered head. It's unfair to compare them directly as they're doing different things.
The Superfast has a fast flash duration, it's intended for people who care about freezing action. Quick spec grab:
Superfast 400: 0.05 - 0.61 recycle, 1/240 - 1/12820 t0.5 flash duration at min
Godox AD400 Pro: 0.01 - 0.9 recycle, 1/416 - 1/35086 t.1 flash duration at min
BRX 500: 0.34 - 1.45 recycle, 1/1558 t0.5 flash duration at max
Stop just comparing random heads, pick the ones that actually match the features you need i.e. if you don't care about freezing action, you don't need to pay more for that feature.
They're older products and they're Chinese so the UI leaves a lot to be desired but you shouldn't really be spending much time interacting with it (the radio trigger is where you'll be adjusting most heads now, so worry more about the design of the Elinchrom trigger versus the Godox trigger), the AD400/600 Pro are Godox's latest products and they're much better in this regard although Elinchrom have pretty much the same UI for the past 20 years (I mean that as both a compliment and criticism).
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I think he’s using the word ‘equivalent’ to just say they have similar power.
They’re 3 totally different products.
The AD400 pro is a lithium battery powered TTL IGBT flash
The Superfast is a mains powered IGBT flash (check the recycle times and flash duration)
The BRX500 is a mains powered voltage controlled flash
Whilst they may have similar output power, they’re 3 distinctly different products. One is a portable unit designed to be used in the field (literally)
The next is designed for high speed continuous shooting and for freezing fast action
The Elinchrom is just a flash head that’s not much different to the ones you used 30 years ago.
Cross posted with Simon.
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Yeah, it's getting confusing as every time I phone a dealer (3 so far) and simply ask what is their equivelent to the Elinchrom BRX500 studio mains powered head they give me the answers and the heads they suggest are way more than Elinchrom.
So, can somebody just clarify what the Godox or Pixapro equivelent to the BRX500 would be? If I was buying Elinchrom I'd buy two BRX500 heads with large softboxes and two BRX250 heads with snoots. So, what is Godox/Pixapro equivalent?
So, can somebody just clarify what the Godox or Pixapro equivelent to the BRX500 would be? If I was buying Elinchrom I'd buy two BRX500 heads with large softboxes and two BRX250 heads with snoots. So, what is Godox/Pixapro equivalent?
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And I’ve just looked on the Lencarta site (for the first time in a while)
They seem to be scaling back their rebranding and moving to just rebadging.
They used to sell an Elite Pro which would have been more directly comparable to the Elinchrom head. There’s no wonder the guy on the phone used the word ‘equivalent’ because they don’t really stock an equivalent any more.
I’ll check the others later to see if there’s something more comparable.
They seem to be scaling back their rebranding and moving to just rebadging.
They used to sell an Elite Pro which would have been more directly comparable to the Elinchrom head. There’s no wonder the guy on the phone used the word ‘equivalent’ because they don’t really stock an equivalent any more.
I’ll check the others later to see if there’s something more comparable.
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Thanks Phil
I just got off the phone to a guy at London's Photomart and he sells Godox and said the QS-600 ii is the nearest thing to a BRX500 Elinchrom head. Said flash tube replacement is £65, but he also said because the heads are so cheap if something goes wrong just bin it and buy a new one, I wasn't keen on this as I don't like the 'disposable' attitude. I like the idea of somebody being able to open it up with a screwdriver and fix it.
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lencarta have a man with screwdrivers
But as above they’ve changed somewhat since @Garry Edwards retired.
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Search found this....not sure how accurate it is though.
Recently, Elincrom have moved their tooling for the Compact entry-level lights to India where they are now producing the D-Lite RX series. The professional compact series, the ELC Pro HD are manufactured in Switzerland.
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Taken from https://www.theflashcentre.com/Elinchrom_ELC.html
"Designed and assembled at Elinchrom’s HQ in Switzerland the ELC Pro HD units benefit from the highest Swiss specification"
So the parts are presumably made somewhere in Asia, nothing wrong with that but Elinchrom used to take pride in stamping 'SWISS MADE' on all their best gear and now everything's just 'SWISS DESIGN'.
It's not that big of a deal, the quality of those components isn't dictated by the country they're made in, equally so I don't judge by brand but rather by product range, a Profoto D1 being reliable doesn't help me if there's a problem with the D2's etc.
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That's why I suggested it above, the specs look comparable.
He's not wrong, if you buy the BRX and it breaks you're going to pay £94 - £200 for a basic to major repair, the QS 600 II costs £270. You're probably not going to pay upwards of £200 for a repair on a £270 product.
If the Elinchrom compacts were especially good for reliability/repair that'd be one thing but they're not, I've got two broken BRX's here and opening them up they're just cheaply made inside, even the plastic they use for the case is crap and has been replaced with bloody blu tack (or something very similar).
My point is not that I think Elinchrom is awful but rather I think it's a mistake to believe that by buying one of their heads you're guaranteed a better standard of equipment as everything I've seen suggests it's really not that much different.
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Makes sense, Simon. The Godox QS-600 ii you suggested looks like a good option, well, two of them and two 400's perhaps.
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3x 500ws heads w/ only 3 stops of adjustment (BRX500) seem quite wrong for "a small studio doing portrait shoots, head and shoulders and full-length." 600ws w/ 5 stops also seems a bit much IMO (QS600II). A very basic/cheap mains powered setup in the 250/300ws range would seem to be more than enough (i.e. Godox SK300II/GS200II).
Things have changed a lot from 30yrs ago when we were using ASA 25 film, these days most cameras will give very comparable/good results up to (at least) ISO400... and many/most digital cameras have a base ISO of 100. And 30yrs ago you probably wouldn't place a hot light w/in a couple of feet for a portrait, these days you may very well place a strobe that close.
But I am making the assumption that this is for digital photography...
Lighting is like anything else w/ photography... buying stuff/capabilities you don't need is wasted money. And buying anything when you don't know what you actually need is also probably wasted money. So waste as little as possible while you figure it out.
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sk66. You're right with your assumption, it is digital photography, Canon EOS 5D MK3 with L series lenses.
Still figuring out the right studio flash set up to go with but so far I'm thinking two Godox QS-600 ii heads, one for key light and the other for the background light as both these lights need some kick as I shoot at base 100 iso, the other two heads could be Godox QS-600 ii for fill and snooted back light.
Or, in the Pixipro (Godox) range two Kino ii 600+ heads and 2 Lumi 400 ii 400Ws heads, but latter don't have built in receiver.
Still figuring out the right studio flash set up to go with but so far I'm thinking two Godox QS-600 ii heads, one for key light and the other for the background light as both these lights need some kick as I shoot at base 100 iso, the other two heads could be Godox QS-600 ii for fill and snooted back light.
Or, in the Pixipro (Godox) range two Kino ii 600+ heads and 2 Lumi 400 ii 400Ws heads, but latter don't have built in receiver.
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https://www.elinchrom.com/support/unit-specs.html lists the BRX as 31 to 500 Ws.
One feature I used to quite like on Elinchrom heads was you had consistent numbers between each head, so setting 4.0 would be the same output regardless if it's a 200 or 400 Ws head (most other brands just show you fractions or 10 to 1 so the same setting is different across different heads).
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You seem to have some experience with this, maybe it would help to convert the numbers... for instance, using asa 25 film you might need 600-1200ws even in a fairly compact space, at base ISO 100 that converts to 150-300ws to accomplish the same things. So if using 600ws heads you will want at least 4 stops of adjustability, or be willing to stop down to smaller apertures/use ND's etc. If you have less power than you want/need then you can always bump the ISO w/o significantly impacting the image you want to create, if you have too much power it becomes much more problematic.
There are some advantages to running higher powered heads at lower power settings; faster recycle, shorter durations, etc. Personally, if I were going to buy 600ws heads for a small studio I would want a lot more range like the 8 stops of the AD600 or 7stop QT600, but that increases the price notably. Definitely consider mixing in some smaller heads.
I'm a bit mixed on built in receivers for studio heads... the Godox transmitters/receivers are pretty inexpensive and it's a lot more cost effective to replace one of them rather than a complete head (or even just a repair service) should the function become glitchy or fail. And there have been times where the distance/placement of a receiver has been a bit problematic, when it's built in you have no options there.
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Adorama has their listing all jacked up then... I thought it looked very odd.
"• Variable f-stop steps : 1/1, 1/2, 4/10, 1/3, 2/10 or 1/10"
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Totally get what you're saying, sk, regarding lower power lights. Perhaps the Godox QS-400 ii (still has built in receiver though, they don't seem to do one without now, not in QS range anyway).
To confirm, this is for a small portrait studio, but I will be doing 'full length' portraiture, with space around the subject while using larger softboxes with the head firing backwards into the box and reflecting around the back before making it's way through the front defuser. I suspect the QS-600 ii would definitely be required for this main keylight set up in such a way? Then perhaps QS-400 ii heads for the fill, back and background lights?
To confirm, this is for a small portrait studio, but I will be doing 'full length' portraiture, with space around the subject while using larger softboxes with the head firing backwards into the box and reflecting around the back before making it's way through the front defuser. I suspect the QS-600 ii would definitely be required for this main keylight set up in such a way? Then perhaps QS-400 ii heads for the fill, back and background lights?
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This seems good:
https://shop.photomart.co.uk/lighti...-qs400ii-head-umbrella-softbox-combo-kit.html
Could get the above with an extra 600 head and 400 head and then buy a larger softbox and snoot etc.
https://shop.photomart.co.uk/lighti...-qs400ii-head-umbrella-softbox-combo-kit.html
Could get the above with an extra 600 head and 400 head and then buy a larger softbox and snoot etc.
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I have got 2 Godox flash units. The Godox V860II is a traditional flashgun. It cost £170. The fuji equivalent is £480. I gave had it for 12 months and it has not missed a beat and the build quality is superb. It uses a lithium ion battery so no problems with overheating and a full charge lasts all day. I notice Nikon are still using alkaline batteries for their top of the range flashgun. I have just bought the AD200 off camera flash and again fantastic build quality. I bought this before booking onto one of Damien Lovegrove's urban photography courses, he uses the same Godox AD200, if its good enough for him thats enough recommendation for me.
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@CreativeWriter
Have a look at the ‘new rental studio’ thread in the lighting section to see what can be achieved with the Superfasts, that’ll give you the best idea of how much technology has moved on since heads like the BRX were the latest thing.
Have a look at the ‘new rental studio’ thread in the lighting section to see what can be achieved with the Superfasts, that’ll give you the best idea of how much technology has moved on since heads like the BRX were the latest thing.
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Probably not; the size of modifier/distance thing is a little bit of a red herring IMO. It does take more power to fill a larger modifier, but a larger modifier is suited to lighting a larger area (i.e. full body) from a closer distance. Most of the time, the distance at which the modifier is placed is a much more significant factor (ISL).
I strongly suspect 400ws is more than enough. But the QS600 does have 5 stops of adjustment so I imagine it will certainly be usable for the most demanding situations (low ISO, large area/distance, smaller apertures). And probably typically usable @ ≤ 1/2 power.
But there's a lot I cannot know, and a lot that seems a bit incongruous... I.e. "small studio" and "full length w/ large modifiers and distance" don't go together. Of course large/small are relative terms and vague as it is. And if you insist on shooting at only ISO 100 and f/11 it will make a big difference compared to someone willing to use ISO800 and is mostly shooting at f/1.8.
Maybe think about starting with a 400ws 2 light setup... a whole lot can be done with only two lights (and reflectors). Then you can decide how well they suit you and if you need to round out the kit with more or less powerful units.
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Phil, I had a look at the 'new rental studio' thread. Interesting long second post. But, the superfast thing is of no interest to me, it's a special effect (the examples in the thread) that are old hat and of no interest to me. I will not need the 'freezing' flash speeds, just regular portrait shots, no jumping or leaping mid air subjects.
sk, I know what you mean. I'm a fan of putting large modifiers as close to the subject as possible, sometimes in shot (to be airbrushed out later) to get softer light on the subject.
I always shoot at 100 iso for quality purposes also, hence extra power. I remember back in the day Elinchrom EL250 heads were nowhere near enough for my needs, doing the same thing I'm going to be doing now, full length portraits and small group (family) shots.
The studio is around 4.5 meters wide by 8 meters long. Will shoot at 100 iso primarily with a 24-70 f2.8 that will be at f3.5 ish, on average.
sk, I know what you mean. I'm a fan of putting large modifiers as close to the subject as possible, sometimes in shot (to be airbrushed out later) to get softer light on the subject.
I always shoot at 100 iso for quality purposes also, hence extra power. I remember back in the day Elinchrom EL250 heads were nowhere near enough for my needs, doing the same thing I'm going to be doing now, full length portraits and small group (family) shots.
The studio is around 4.5 meters wide by 8 meters long. Will shoot at 100 iso primarily with a 24-70 f2.8 that will be at f3.5 ish, on average.
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As a portrait photographer, I know that some subjects suffer from an inability to relax, and the ability to shoot more images in quick succession is a boon.
We do this all the time shooting candids at weddings nowadays, shooting a short burst where traditionally we’d have taken a single shot.
We sometimes refer to it as capturing ‘micro expressions’
Old fashioned heads limit our ability to do this in the studio, but the IGBT controlled heads make it possible.
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Makes sense, Phil, and I can see how that would be a bonus for a lot of photographers. I'm a bit of a traditionalist, although I move with the times and the tech. But I don't like the idea of lots of extra post-production culling of loads of images to pick a good one. I try and shoot mimulistically, aiming to get the shot right first time rather than bursting off loads of shots. I know you're not talking about 'hit and hope' but it still creates culling work and could introduce an element of laziness to a shoot.
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It took me a loooong time to get used to digital - I shot for 10 years as if I was shooting film (more or less), nowadays I have it.
Culling is simple once you've grasped the concept of 'editing in'. I can edit 1000 images down to 100 in no time at all.
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I have 'Photo Mechanic' but I'd still rather take the time to get the perfect shot at the shooting stage. Back in the day (on film with Nikon F3 and Hasselblad 500cm) my hit rate for perfectly exposed, composed, in focus shots where everything was spot on was about 95%, not many duds made their way through because I thought long and hard about each shot before pressing the shutter – old habbits die hard. But, if I carry on this way, the same results should come around so if it ain't broke, don't fix it, is my policy.
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You really shouldn't worry about buying Chinese products. The poor reputation is based on low tech, low entry barrier products that are made as cheaply as possible, often in small workshops (or even in people's homes' from the cheapest possible materials. This is still a real problem but is now pretty much limited to items such as many cheap softboxes and some cheap photographic gadgets, but the well-run Chinese factories are at least as good as any in other parts of the world, and they are the world leaders in all things electronic - which includes flash heads.
Yes, there are a few really poor Chinese flash heads available, many of which are sold under a range of different brand names, but they are extremely cheap, badly specified and even look very basic, so they are easily avoided.
And if you really are determined to avoid Chinese firms, that leaves you with a choice of just 3 that I know of - Elinchrom, with a small number of their most expensive heads still made in Switzerland but with the vast majority made in India - some might say that that's a strange choice of origin, Profoto with very high prices, very good marketing but, IMO they are over-hyped as well as over-priced, and Bron, who really do make excellent products, but at incredibly high prices. And, although this may or may not have changed, some of the Bron flash heads were in fact made in China . . .
Speaking of which, Bowens spent the last few years of its life making all of their products in China and their better models were made by Godox!
Turning to Godox, they are far from being a cheap brand and their factory gate prices are quite high. They are fairly cheap for consumers though because Godox doesn't have any authorised dealers, they sell to literally everyone and this leads to VAT and duty evasion, and a complete absence of customer care from many of their re-sellers, but also results in cut throat price cutting. Godox is hugely successful and over a year ago they had reached the point where their sales value was higher than all non-Chinese sellers combined, and if they haven't already achieved it they will soon be in a monopoly position. Part of this success will be due to their distribution methods but part of it is also due to the fact that they make good products and seem to have eclipsed all of their competitors in technical terms.
But, bear in mind that the super-quick recycling times only occur when the flash head is set to a low power setting.
Yes, there are a few really poor Chinese flash heads available, many of which are sold under a range of different brand names, but they are extremely cheap, badly specified and even look very basic, so they are easily avoided.
And if you really are determined to avoid Chinese firms, that leaves you with a choice of just 3 that I know of - Elinchrom, with a small number of their most expensive heads still made in Switzerland but with the vast majority made in India - some might say that that's a strange choice of origin, Profoto with very high prices, very good marketing but, IMO they are over-hyped as well as over-priced, and Bron, who really do make excellent products, but at incredibly high prices. And, although this may or may not have changed, some of the Bron flash heads were in fact made in China . . .
Speaking of which, Bowens spent the last few years of its life making all of their products in China and their better models were made by Godox!
Turning to Godox, they are far from being a cheap brand and their factory gate prices are quite high. They are fairly cheap for consumers though because Godox doesn't have any authorised dealers, they sell to literally everyone and this leads to VAT and duty evasion, and a complete absence of customer care from many of their re-sellers, but also results in cut throat price cutting. Godox is hugely successful and over a year ago they had reached the point where their sales value was higher than all non-Chinese sellers combined, and if they haven't already achieved it they will soon be in a monopoly position. Part of this success will be due to their distribution methods but part of it is also due to the fact that they make good products and seem to have eclipsed all of their competitors in technical terms.
Adorama is a large retailer, Pixapro isn't - they just made a decision for some reason to sell everything under their own name.
The benefits of being able to shoot very rapidly without waiting a second or two for the flash head to recycle significant to say the least, like many things in life it's easy to say that you're happy with your own approach - I tend to be a "measure twice cut once" person myself - but having used SuperFast heads a lot, I really do appreciate their value and usefulness and I'm confident that if you try them you'll wonder how you ever managed without them
But, bear in mind that the super-quick recycling times only occur when the flash head is set to a low power setting.
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I'm confident that he won't try them.I'm confident that if you try them you'll wonder how you ever managed without them
You're wasting your time, he's obviously got his own ideas, and dismisses most of what is being suggested.
Let him crack on I say.
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Thanks, Gary, for the detailed and long explanation and for bringing me up to date on Chinese manufacturing, poor quality and good quality factories etc.
Regarding the superfast strobes, I'll look into this more as you could have a point. At the end of the day it isn't like super fast strobes have any disadvantages, only a big advantage. Must admit, I like the look of the Profoto D2 fast head, pricy though. I think the Godox QT 2 series is the fast Godox range, will check them out.
Regarding the superfast strobes, I'll look into this more as you could have a point. At the end of the day it isn't like super fast strobes have any disadvantages, only a big advantage. Must admit, I like the look of the Profoto D2 fast head, pricy though. I think the Godox QT 2 series is the fast Godox range, will check them out.
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As an aside, 'Interfit'? Any good? The S1 and S1a heads? How do they compair with Godox and Elinchrom for example? Anybody any experience with Interfit or any knowledge of them? From what I can gather, after looking around the web, they appear to be a small, but dedicated, UK company who appear to be passionate about what they do.
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Interfit for lack of a better term is a bottom feeder, their older stuff was quite poor but had the saving grace of being extremely cheap.
That's a little unfair to them, that was definitely true in the past and I cannot say how good their current S1 and Honeybadger heads are, I do know a few photographers who happily use them but my assumption is for quality/reliability you'd get something like most random Chinese brands and as they're not the cheapest, most reliable or highest performance there's not much need to try them.
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Broncolor is actually about the same price as Profoto these days, everyone says Broncolor is more expensive but it doesn't seem to be the case anymore.
I said larger retailer, I think Essential qualifies for their specific field in the UK but let's not argue over semantics, I'm sure Godox will happily do it for anyone prepared to pay for the privilege. It's a little ironic but I think the re-branding just confuses a lot of customers.
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Totally agree. I think some companies do it for vanity reasons, but they probably aren't aware that by doing this they are killing their own sales.
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I think it's to avoid the stigma of Chinese electronics, that's not a dig aimed at you that's just the reality of the situation for most people having used cheap Chinese electronics in the past understandably don't trust them.
There's still a surprising number of photographers who've never heard of Godox so maybe it does work.
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or, a passing mod might just wander in and realise it's in the wrong place and move it anyway...