Studio Lighting Help

The seller doesn't know much about studio lighting, otherwise it's reasonable to assume that he wouldn't be talking about watts, which may or may not affect customer support...

The recycling time is slow, which indicates that the circuitry will be crude, with perhaps just 1 or 2 capacitors, which will affect flash consistency and colour temperature consistency.

The modelling lamp is only 75w, which is nowhere near enough to be useful, which indicates that the flash heads aren't fan cooled.

There is no info on the accessory fitting, which may indicate that either the reflectors are fixed (probably are, judging from the supplied accessories) or that it's a non-standard fitting - whichever is right, you may not be able to get any extra accessories.

It's probably pretty good value for money, but if you buy it you will probably want to upgrade to something better and more versatile fairly soon.

You might want to take a look at the Lencarta SmartFlash 200 3-head kit, which is a known quantity.
 
http://www.calumetphoto.co.uk/item/CF0514K1/ would be my choice at your price level. It has excellent power, digital readout, garners excellent reviews, has an intelligent trigger (so can fire off your built in flash, even with pre-flash), really good quality umbrellas (that go for 35 each) and stands etc etc.

MRStudioOne is a reseller of Chinese goods, and I have bought from him in the past and had no problems. 99.5% feedback is very good on 4500 items. I'm sure he knows what he is talking about.
 
oh, and if you can get an educational discount, its 20% cheaper.
 
I am very satisfied with Jinbei Flashes

http://www.flickr.com/photos/laternamagica/4567087901/

There is a retailer from NL selling them

http://www.fotokonijnenberg.nl/productlist/38268/tot_300_watt.html

(please be advised that you need to buy an umbrella reflector separately - if you need any, despite it is shown in the picture)

http://www.fotokonijnenberg.nl/product/15761/jinbei_paraplu_reflector_13x95cm.html

Jinbei umbrellas and softboxes are also quite a bargain and good quality for the money. E.g.

85x85cm SoBo
http://www.fotokonijnenberg.nl/product/3750/jinbei_m-85x85_soft_box.html
or 1m umbrellas
http://www.fotokonijnenberg.nl/product/22720/jinbei_flitsparaplu_zwart_-_zilver_101cm.html
http://www.fotokonijnenberg.nl/product/22712/jinbei_flitsparaplu_zwart_-_wit_101cm.html

Unfortunately the s&h fees are quite expensive when you live in UK (I think its 50 EUR). - May be still worth while a conideration since the equipment is very reaonably priced.
 
I have just ordered an ebay flash set up - 3 heads outfit for £190. lots of people criticise these units bit few seem to have actually used them! Will have to see what they are like!
 
You already know the old adage - Buy cheap - buy twice...
And you can ignore it if you want.

I'm long in the tooth and I'd say if it hasn't got "Elinchrom" written on it then don't waste your money on it.

Turn up at the Flash Centre with £400 and they'll do you a deal.
Don't buy online.
Don't buy what you haven't tried and tested.
Don't buy anything that won't reliably work (and work and work and work...)

See above - if it hasn't got "Elinchrom" written on it - don't waste your money.

Best wishes
Monty
 
MiniMonty said:
You already know the old adage - Buy cheap - buy twice...
And you can ignore it if you want.

I'm long in the tooth and I'd say if it hasn't got "Elinchrom" written on it then don't waste your money on it.

Turn up at the Flash Centre with £400 and they'll do you a deal.
Don't buy online.
Don't buy what you haven't tried and tested.
Don't buy anything that won't reliably work (and work and work and work...)

See above - if it hasn't got "Elinchrom" written on it - don't waste your money.

Best wishes
Monty
Click to expand...

I understand your viewpoint in this and the other thread and I'm sure you're trying to be helpful, but you really do need to get up to date...

Elinchrom build quality isn't what it was - there is absolutely nothing wrong with the light quality, even in their consumer units, but they no longer have the build quality IMO and they are by no means the only 2nd tier brand worth considering. There are a few others available that are at least as good, much better value for money and which have better light shapers at better prices.

See above - if it hasn't got "Elinchrom" written on it - don't waste your money.
Click to expand...
So you feel that it's a waste of money to buy 1st tier lights such as Bron or Profoto?
 
Dave Pickett said:
I have just ordered an ebay flash set up - 3 heads outfit for £190. lots of people criticise these units bit few seem to have actually used them! Will have to see what they are like!
Click to expand...

true mate, a lot do criticise what they haven't used, goes for most products.

I got the 3 head kit from stable imaging, which is very similar to most the 3 head kits on ebay. it is cheap and cheerful, but provides excellent images if you know accept the limits. an upgrade is on the cards if one takes studio work more seriously though, but as a learning tool, it does a decent job.

Ignore the fanboys that litter the forums and make educated decisions about what to buy yourself. plenty of people around here to give unbiased opinions.

that being said, the lencarta stuff is sexy, and well priced =)
 
Have you looked at elemental, Bought their B series a while ago and works well, plus they have a good range of accessories, and very helpful on the phone. They will also phone you back if they think your ordering things that might not be entirely sutable with your existing setup.
 
As much as I recommend Elinchrom all the time (and the quality hasn't lowered, not imho, nor do I think they are 'second tier' %[, Gary has his own agenda) I know at least two event photographers that use the cheap Ebay flashes; figuring that given the hammering they get at events, if they break down, its not too expensive to replace. One was branded Hyundae, cant remember what the other one was. Backups are cheap too.

None of them have had to replace their lights yet.

Even the mount is unimportant if all you ever use is umbrellas.

Fan cooling is not that important if you dont need the modelling bulbs inside softboxes.

Having said that, I wouldn't buy four of them to start. Try one and see what the quality is like.

Light is light.
 
Kris said:
As much as I recommend Elinchrom all the time (and the quality hasn't lowered, not imho, nor do I think they are 'second tier' %[, Gary has his own agenda) I know at least two event photographers that use the cheap Ebay flashes; figuring that given the hammering they get at events, if they break down, its not too expensive to replace. One was branded Hyundae, cant remember what the other one was. Backups are cheap too.

None of them have had to replace their lights yet.

Even the mount is unimportant if all you ever use is umbrellas.

Fan cooling is not that important if you dont need the modelling bulbs inside softboxes.

Having said that, I wouldn't buy four of them to start. Try one and see what the quality is like.

Light is light.
Click to expand...
Garry doesn't have his own agenda - that statement isn't true and it isn't fair either, I've recommended Elinchrom for years and am happy to continue to do so for some people, depending on their needs.
As for the quality issue, it's just a fact of life that the pro ones are much, much better than the new consumer models. Compare them side by side and that will be the end of your argument.

As for them being second tier, that's an observation not a criticsm because different people have different needs - but most advertising photographers need first tier lights such as Bron or Profoto, that doesn't mean that Elinchrom aren't good enough, it's just easier to get consistent results with better lights - and that argument applies to the very cheap lights too, used for portraits etc - they work but it's easier to get consistent results with better lights.

As for umbrellas, yes they suit event photographers - but people who need to use light creatively need other tools. If the only tool you have is a hammer, then every problem looks like a nail.
 
Right. So. Budget: £400-£500. I want a 3-light set-up possible with a snoot. I don't have an on-camera flash (other than pop-up) and want the recievers preferably in the kit.

I'd also like to get a snoot and use softboxes.

So. Give me links and reasons, please. :)
 
Gary is in the pay of Lencarta and recommends them at any opportunity, even though his sig above doesn't say so. I find it strange that a very similar lighting company with the same business model as Lencarta and equivalent stuff, Elemental, hardly every get mentioned, unlike Lencarta. Maybe they dont have a Gary on the forums. He appears to be breaking this rule all the time:

Rules: Links to commercial sites by members with a financial or personal link to said sites.

Read this sentence: Elinchrom build quality isn't what it was - there is absolutely nothing wrong with the light quality, even in their consumer units, but they no longer have the build quality IMO and they are by no means the only 2nd tier brand worth considering. There are a few others available that are at least as good, much better value for money and which have better light shapers at better prices.

Nowhere do you mention comparing Elinchrom consumer units against professional units, you just complain that all Eli are not what they were. I disagree. Hardly the 'end of my argument' now is it? I think they are very well made, and have never even so much as blown a modelling bulb in any of my dozen or so units. Even in my 'consumer units'.

Second tier? Absolute rubbish. If you think they are second tier, why do many world famous advertising photographers like Annie Liebowitz use them? Do you think she cant afford Profoto/Bron if that is what she wants.... well, Annie prob cant at the mo, but you get my argument.

Obviously, a mount is important to me. They probably have Bowens mounts on them anyway. If you want a softbox, get an umbrella mounting one - the Viewfinder PLM copies with covers are effective, massive, beautiful quality softboxes with umbrella mountings.
 
Xarra said:
Right. So. Budget: £400-£500. I want a 3-light set-up possible with a snoot. I don't have an on-camera flash (other than pop-up) and want the recievers preferably in the kit.

I'd also like to get a snoot and use softboxes.

So. Give me links and reasons, please. :)
Click to expand...


I've already given you a link the the Lencarta SmartFlash 3 head kit, so now the reasons...
1. Very consistent colour temperature, very consistent flash output - which means that you can concentrate on what you're photographing, knowing that every flash will have the same quality. This is largely due to the fact that the SmartFlash has 9 capacitors in each head.
2. Fast recycling - 1 second at full power, 1/5th second at minimum power. This is important when you're photographing people but doesn't matter at all if you're photographing still life.
3. Short flash duration of 1/1800th sec, useful for freezing movement
4. Fan cooled, can use them all day every day without risk of overheating
5. Bright modelling lamp, essential if there is other light present in the room.
6. Bowens S-fit accessories, which are good, cheap and plentiful.

You mention snoots and softboxes. Snoots are useful but so are honeycombs in standard reflectors, and honeycombs are more versatile. Softboxes are useful too, but are not the beginning and end of studio lighting. You might want to book on one of the Lencarta lighting workshops that I host for them, where you will learn what can be done with various lighting tools. These lighting workshops are heavily subsidised. Unfortuntely they are all fully booked, but October and November dates will become available soon. You don't have to be a Lencarta customer to go on their lighting workshops, but customers will get a discounted price.
 
Kris said:
Gary is in the pay of Lencarta and recommends them at any opportunity, even though his sig above doesn't say so. I find it strange that a very similar lighting company with the same business model as Lencarta and equivalent stuff, Elemental, hardly every get mentioned, unlike Lencarta. Maybe they dont have a Gary on the forums. He appears to be breaking this rule all the time:

Rules: Links to commercial sites by members with a financial or personal link to said sites.

.
Click to expand...
Kris,

It seems to me that it's you that has the agenda. Yes, I get paid by Lencarta, and I make that clear in my signature.

I don't believe that I do recommend Lencarta at every opportunity, I try to answer questions honestly, whether that involves Lencarta or not. If you check with the people who have been on the Lencarta lighting workshops held at my studio every one of them will confirm that I use Elinchrom (pro) equipment as well as Lencarta.

Other people recommend Lencarta too, and other people recommend other brands as well.

As for breaking forum rules, that isn't true either, but if you think it is then please feel free to report me to the Admins (again):)

I think that you and I will just have to agree to differ.
 
Kris said:
He appears to be breaking this rule all the time:

Rules: Links to commercial sites by members with a financial or personal link to said sites.
Click to expand...

if i'm correct, i'm sure Garry is paid by Lencarta for tech support - and is not on commision for sales, so him recommending something he knows about doesn't particularly benefit him in this case surely?

I'm sure if he replied to every post about which lights to buy with a direct link and 'say garry sent you' - then it would be different.
 
karfeef said:
if i'm correct, i'm sure Garry is paid by Lencarta for tech support - and is not on commision for sales, so him recommending something he knows about doesn't particularly benefit him in this case surely?

I'm sure if he replied to every post about which lights to buy with a direct link and 'say garry sent you' - then it would be different.
Click to expand...
That's right, I'm paid to provide Lencarta with a range of services including photography, running their courses, providing tech support both to them and to customers. I'm not on commission.

But even more to the point, both Lencarta and myself are advertisers on this forum, and advertisers can start 2 new threads per month about their products/services and answer questions that are relevant. My own advertiser status is for my Photolearn tutorials and videos.

Both signatures (Lencarta & Photolearn) make my connections clear to everyone. The fact that the signature doesn't always show is controlled by the TP software, not by the person making the post.

If sellers of other products want to become advertisers then they can apply to the admins.
 
Kris said:
Gary is in the pay of Lencarta and recommends them at any opportunity, even though his sig above doesn't say so. I find it strange that a very similar lighting company with the same business model as Lencarta and equivalent stuff, Elemental, hardly every get mentioned, unlike Lencarta. Maybe they dont have a Gary on the forums. He appears to be breaking this rule all the time:

Rules: Links to commercial sites by members with a financial or personal link to said sites.

Read this sentence: Elinchrom build quality isn't what it was - there is absolutely nothing wrong with the light quality, even in their consumer units, but they no longer have the build quality IMO and they are by no means the only 2nd tier brand worth considering. There are a few others available that are at least as good, much better value for money and which have better light shapers at better prices.

Nowhere do you mention comparing Elinchrom consumer units against professional units, you just complain that all Eli are not what they were. I disagree. Hardly the 'end of my argument' now is it? I think they are very well made, and have never even so much as blown a modelling bulb in any of my dozen or so units. Even in my 'consumer units'.

Second tier? Absolute rubbish. If you think they are second tier, why do many world famous advertising photographers like Annie Liebowitz use them? Do you think she cant afford Profoto/Bron if that is what she wants.... well, Annie prob cant at the mo, but you get my argument.

Obviously, a mount is important to me. They probably have Bowens mounts on them anyway. If you want a softbox, get an umbrella mounting one - the Viewfinder PLM copies with covers are effective, massive, beautiful quality softboxes with umbrella mountings.
Click to expand...


kris
There's not really a great deal of difference in Bowens, Elinchrom or many of the other makes. All have advantages and disadvantages.

Unfortunately I got an E4 message on my Elinchrom 400BX untit the other day so nmow speaking to TFC to see if i can get a 500BxRi unit.

I love my Elinchrom lights but have a set of Bowens lights I can use too. Both are impressive.#

Regards lencarta, i have no experience with them but don't think they would be really much different either.

Elinchrom has a fabulous set of modifiers which is why many use them and the skyport system is an outstanding advantage. Saves having to lower the boom to reduce/increase power!

Like in anything we do there are many options - bioth good and bad. It's worth investigating all before making an informed decision

I would recommend Elinchrom wholeheartedly - even although I got an error on one last week - nothing lasts forever! But I would also advise Bowens look to be an equally good alternative (apart from the lack of Skyport)

Skyport is what gives Elinchrom a big advantage over anything else at the moment.
 
Technical support would be handling queries from Lencarta users, not potential Lencarta users.

Lets take this very thread as an example. The OP asked about a certain Ebay flash kit. The second post is Garry, who berates the kit (fair enough), but then recommends, surprise, ..... Lencarta! If that is not blatant advertising by an employee of said company, then I dont know what is.

I am aware that given a strict interpretation of that rule, most people would not be able to link to their own photography websites. But I tend to find that photographers dont see other photographers on photography forum as potential photography customers.

Other people recommend Lencarta too, and other people recommend other brands as well. I'm sure they do, hell, Id love a go on their Safari kit. I'm sure I'd be a happy bunny with their kit. But that is a valid opinion probably based on personal experience, not paid employment.
 
The OP asked for reasons NOT to buy that kit, and asked what other kits should be considered.
I looked at the Ebay listing, which gives virtually no real info, and interpreted (rightly or wrongly) what I saw, for example I concluded that there is no cooling fan because the modelling lamp is only 75 W.

I even said that the kit was probably very good value for money. I then linked to a Lencarta kit that I honestly believe is a much better deal - but I said nothing other than that he might want to consider it.

Other people (including you of course) then recommended various other products.

Where exactly have I gone wrong, in your opinion?

As for being a paid employee of Lencarta, let me say once again, I'm not their employee.

Id love a go on their Safari kit. I'm sure I'd be a happy bunny with their kit.
Click to expand...
Then feel free to come to my studio by arrangement and try it out for yourself.
 
oh no not Bash Garry time again?

Everyone knows of Garry's association with Lencarta, but I always take his advice as impartial, only flavoured with Lencarta because he has in depth knowledge of their units.....

OK back on topic, are the ebay units OK to take to someone's house for a shoot? The ones I have just bought dont appear that robust. My take is that they would be fine if you are careful, but the better ebay ones as detailed by the OP might be a better bet.
Interesting that some event togs are using the cheaper lights, its the same as power tools, many tradesmen these days dont buy DeWalt or other top brands, they buy the cheapies and chuck them when out of warranty.

Appears however, despite many adverse comments from some on here that havnt tried them there's actually not much wrong with the cheaper lights if you accept their limitations.....
 
I started reading this thread just before lunch.. Dave has put it pretty much as I was going to. Thanks for posting, I have found Garry informative and always happy to talk about the pros and cons of lighting packages from a number of manufacturers to me..

Personally I am fed up with personal, insulting and at time bullying on forums. sharing pics for constructive crit, is where it should stay. If you don't like someone's pont of view or agenda then there are better ways of putting it.

I too am at the stage for my first lights, I have been given some low powered mains lights to practice with and use by a friend of mine, and when i was looking at my first set, I looked at the budget Interfit, it was then that the same friend recommended Lencarta to me...

I met Garry at Focus on Imaging, his openess and willingness to talk about different lighting impressed me, rather than giving me this is the only product you need sir, thank you very much attitude, that is used by some.....

I just wished he lived closer, so I could pick his brains more!

Sad that one or two tarnish this otherwise enjoyable forum.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top