Subminiature Adventure

[stevelmx5]

Well, another day, another mad idea...

I'm not entirely sure why, but I've bought a Minox B along with an original daylight developing tank, binocular attachment and a couple of unused films. Seeing as I always like a challenge, I thought it would be good to try something new which will also get me back into developing my own B&W film. I should be getting the kit on Friday so, in the meantime, I've been putting together some other parts which I'll need, including a film slitter to cut my own 9.2mm film from 135 rolls and a new adaptor to scan the film on my V500.

Film slitter:

This is made in 2 halves using 5mm foamboard



Basically, there are 3 blades bonded into the bottom half, spaced just over 9mm apart. In a dark bag, I will need to pull the leader out of the canister and press the film down over the blades.



Once they're through the film, I can fit the top half over and press it down tight. The sides of the base piece are raised by around 1mm so the film has a channel to pull through without being too tight so it scratches. Once I've pulled the film right through, I'll end up with 2 strips of sprocket holes and 2 strips of film ready to use.



According to a few different sites, these should be the length of film I need for different numbers of exposures;

15 32 cm 12.9"
30 52 cm 20.3"
36 59 cm 23.2"
50 77 cm 30.1"

I'll use a piece of string or previously cut film to get the right length inside the dark bag.


That should sort out the film needed. As the camera I bought comes with two unused film cartridges I'm planning on re-using those. I found a guy on Flickr who makes awesome looking plated brass cartridges/cases to replace the hard to find original plastic ones but at $100 per cartridge it seemed a bit steep!

 

[steveo_mcg]

Thats a good design, there are a couple of older cameras that use 120 cut down that I've been thinking about. 127 is the obvious one.

 

[stevelmx5]

The next problem after actually shooting/developing the film is how to scan it! I've found a few sellers on ebay offering dedicated Minox film holders for Epson scanners but in my usual MacGyver approach, I've made a new adaptor that fits inside the 120 holder and holds 3 strips of Minox film flat for scanning. The original Epson holder lifts the film 1mm away from the glass plate so I need to maintain that distance to keep focus. I've layered 4 pieces of black card to build up to 1mm and then cut out 3 x 8mm wide slots for the scanner to see the film;



On top of the 4 pieces of card, I've fitted extra strips of card to make 10mm wide channels for the film to slide in so I can keep the film flat by taping it to the holder either side.



On top of that, I've got another piece of card that runs the full width of the 120 holder with the same 8mm wide slots cut into it so the top light shines through the film



I've used my film slitter to cut down some used B&W film so I can test the scanning. I'm pretty happy with result so it should be good to go

Minox B scan holder test by Steve Lloyd, on Flickr

Minox B scan holder test by Steve Lloyd, on Flickr

 

[stevelmx5]

Thats a good design, there are a couple of older cameras that use 120 cut down that I've been thinking about. 127 is the obvious one.

Cheers. I tried to keep it simple and compact so it doesn't take up a load of room inside the changing bag and I also don't slice off a finger in the process!

 

[NickT]

I'll be really interested to see how you get on with this, as I also have a Minox B with a knackered meter and a tageslichtentwicklungsdose. I have to confess that I've never used the camera or the developing tank but I do have a roll of Minox B&W film. I keep wondering what the results would be like if I developed in ID11 or D76? I think that it will be necessary to keep a careful count of the frames used,as once the tail of the film disappears into the take up half of the cassette, there will be no easy way to load the tank.

 

[stevelmx5]

I'll keep the thread updated with my progress. If I wind to far, I'll need to put the cassette into a dark bag and open it up to pull out the tail before loading the tank. By the looks of the manuals I've read, there's no way to reset the film counter so I have to just wind/cock the camera continually until it reaches the start point then counts down. Sounds like it might be a bit of trial and error involved with re-spooled film so fingers crossed!

I have to confess that as well as trying a new film format and methods, I've also got a few ideas in my head with regards to the design of the Minox B so I'll keep the thread updated if I go ahead with an idea I've got (and no, I'm not converting it to 120...) :0)

 

[ChrisR]

I also have a ... tageslichtentwicklungsdose...

Word of the year! Way better than daylight tank.Those Germans really know how to make top-sounding words... beats antidisestablismentarianism into a pointed helmet!

 

[stevelmx5]

I admit I had to Google it to find out what it was :0)

 

[NickT]

I admit I had to Google it to find out what it was :0)

Didn't yours come with a box? It's printed on the one that came with mine.

 

[stevelmx5]

Didn't yours come with a box? It's printed on the one that came with mine.

I won't get it until Friday so I'm not sure but as far as I know, the dev tank is unboxed.

 

[NickT]

I won't get it until Friday so I'm not sure but as far as I know, the dev tank is unboxed.

If you like, I can scan the instructions that came with mine and email them to you. They're in English and describe how to deal with short films.

 

[stevelmx5]

If you like, I can scan the instructions that came with mine and email them to you. They're in English and describe how to deal with short films.

Thanks @NickT that would be great. I'll send you my email address, no rush.

 

[Nod]

Word of the year! Way better than daylight tank.Those Germans really know how to make top-sounding words... beats antidisestablismentarianism into a pointed helmet!

Ein machine nicht fur mittengrabben oder fingerpoken?

 

[35millimetre]

Finding it hard to resist making a high-pitched noise at these TEENY TINY NEGATIVES oh sorry I failed.

 

[Teflon-Mike]

Scanning a roll of old minox, didn't yield particularly wonderful results, in an adapter down from 35mm.
However, using a slide duplicator lens on the electric picture maker, to get optical enlargement, magged up aprox 2x from orignal to did drag out a lot more of the detail the little spy camera could resolve.
Is pretty incredible how much detail these little cameras can pack into such a tiny negative area....
I gave up using mine though, as I'd only get perhaps 3 frames to a roll.... every time I put it down, some-one would go "Oh! James bond camera!" and start opening it and closing it, advancing the film each time! lol.

 

[stevelmx5]

Scanning a roll of old minox, didn't yield particularly wonderful results, in an adapter down from 35mm.
However, using a slide duplicator lens on the electric picture maker, to get optical enlargement, magged up aprox 2x from orignal to did drag out a lot more of the detail the little spy camera could resolve.
Is pretty incredible how much detail these little cameras can pack into such a tiny negative area....
I gave up using mine though, as I'd only get perhaps 3 frames to a roll.... every time I put it down, some-one would go "Oh! James bond camera!" and start opening it and closing it, advancing the film each time! lol.

Thanks Mike. My plan was to try out the V500 scans first and if I'm not happy with the results, use my Sony A6000 and macro lens with a lightbox instead. However, I've just realised that I could adapt an original Minox film magnifier with an e-mount so I can fit it direct to my A6000. The magnifier is already designed to hold the negatives in place and I can just put the unit on top of a lightbox to photograph the negative;

 

[sketch145]

Looks like a lot of fun! Any idea what film stocks you're going to try in it? I've seen some very impressive results with CMS 20 but you'd have to limit your spying to direct sunlight...

 

[stevelmx5]

The camera I've bought comes with 2 rolls of original Minopan (expiry date unknown at the moment) in 100 and 400 so I'll start by using them. I was planning on cutting down some Acros 100 but also fancy shooting some slide film although I'd have to outsource the development of the slide film.

 

[stevelmx5]

Good and bad news today unfortunately :0(

Good news - The camera and accessories arrived and they're all in excellent outside condition. I'm amazed at how small the camera is but the dev tank is even crazier with it being similar diameter to a Red Bull can! There are actually 3 Minox film cartridges but only the 100 actually has any film in it and one of them has a broken clip so would need to be taped up to use.

Bad news - The light meter isn't responding at all, although the shutter and focusing are working fine. I considered keeping it anyway because the meter is only there to assist and doesn't have any impact on the actual exposure/shutter speed but I've contacted the seller about a refund. They're being really good about it and have apologised as they'd never even used it to know if it worked or not.

I'm not sure if I should look for another Minox or take this one as a sign that I should maybe stick to larger formats! I'll see how I feel once I've sorted my refund.

 

[NickT]

I'd try and get a Minox A, as I wouldn't expect any selenium meter to work now. I've got a Minox B, a Retinette 1B and a Contaflex 2, all have stuffed meters. I don't care what everyone else says about Weston meters, I was given a Master 3 once and that was useless too, I was glad when the glass fell out and bust the galvanometer, giving me an excuse to throw it away.

 

[stevelmx5]

I've negotiated a 50% refund which I'm happy with. For the price I've got the B for, along with the dev tank, 1 film, 2 cartridges, binocular adaptor and flash bulb adaptor, I probably couldn't get an A on its' own so I'm happy to forgo the meter.

I'm going to sell the flash and binocular adaptors because I'll never use them so that should leave me up on the deal too.

 

[NickT]

It's a shame that the meter is bust but good that you got a partial refund and it sounds like you are going to keep the camera. Looking at my camera's meter I can see that the needle does wiggle around a lot depending on the light but there appears to be no coupling between the sliding ND filter and the needle position. This is contrary to the claims of the fairly useless instruction book, which maintains that such a compensation is automatic. I remember reading on the net somewhere that the ND filter is about 2.5 stops, turning the f3.5 lens into an f8 when it's in place. That's something to watch out for when using the B, as it could easily slide into place without your noticing.

A long while ago I read an article somewhere describing the repair procedure for replacing the cell. That involved heating up the camera to melt some glue and pulling the cell out; it sounded a really horrible, Heath Robinson type procedure. Now that Megatron, the last manufacturer of selenium cells in the UK and probably the whole world, is no longer trading, any temptation for anyone to try and fix a broken meter is removed.

Good luck with using you Minox, I hope the shutter speeds are fairly accurate.

 

[stevelmx5]

Funnily enough, I read the same article about applying heat...





I've re-soldered the wire to the front of the selenium cell and am now getting some voltage reading (0.2v in shade up to 0.4v with direct bright light) but I'm struggling to find what a 'good' cell outputs.

I've read a few articles about replacing the selenium cell with a silicon cell from a calculator but I don't have one to test.

 

[NickT]

That's adventurous of you Steve, well done. I assume that there must be a switch somewhere coupled to the filter slider which puts a resistor into the galvanometer circuit. Have you found such a thing in your disassembled Minox?

 

[stevelmx5]

There's a resistor inside the main body soldered to a metal connector. When you slide the ND filter over the lens, another metal contact slides over the first and makes the circuit. If you test the resistance of the top connector thats visible when you slide the camera open to load a film you can see that it increases when the ND filter is slid into place



That connector goes in line in the light meter voltage input between the cell and meter needle. I assume that the resistance is enough to drop the input voltage by an equivalent of light stops.

 

[steveo_mcg]

Ive read conflicting info on selenium cells with some suggesting that properly stored the cells should outlive any of us, even young Carl, but corrosion can effect the connections even the cells themelves rendereing them kaput. However in most cases the apparent dead cell is caused by something else, either electrical in the circuit or mechanical sticking.

 

[Sejanus Aelianus]

I'd try and get a Minox A, as I wouldn't expect any selenium meter to work now.

My Minox B meter is spot on, as was the meter on my Retina IB when I sold it a couple of years ago - it's a bit of a lottery.

It's amazing what you can get out of these tiny devices, given the limitations of film. This was a test shot from the "B"...

 

[NickT]

There's a resistor inside the main body soldered to a metal connector. When you slide the ND filter over the lens, another metal contact slides over the first and makes the circuit. If you test the resistance of the top connector thats visible when you slide the camera open to load a film you can see that it increases when the ND filter is slid into place

I can't get a decent contact on those connectors. How did you get the sliding back that holds the meter off the main body? I hope it's not by removing those two little screws next to the connectors - I haven't got a screwdriver short enough!

 

[stevelmx5]

I hope it's not by removing those two little screws next to the connectors - I haven't got a screwdriver short enough!

Yeah, sorry about that ;0) Once you get those two screws out, the end cap can slide away slightly (not too far because the wire for the resistor is attached to it) and you can slide out the entire piece with the light meter attached.

 

[NickT]

Oh dear! I managed to jam a couple of lengths of coax inner into the connectors to give me a good contact. The circuit is open circuit - infinite resistance in all slider positions. It probably means a wire has come loose.
I managed to get those screws our and this is what I found:



I can only see one piece of wire. Where's the lead going to the top terminal? Is yours like that?

 

[stevelmx5]

Weirdly, yes mine is the same which suggests that the flash connector won't actually do anything!

I hate to say it but I've had to admit defeat with the light meter. The cell is definitely varying its' voltage output with different light but I don't know if it's actually putting out enough voltage to move the needle. I re-soldered the internal wiring to the needle unit which was a challenge but still had no luck :0(



I found the top spring connector was a mess but couldn't get it to reform into a neat circular spring.





Oh well, guess I'll be shooting using an F3.5 version of Sunny 16 :0)

 

[stevelmx5]

Actually, thinking about the flash connector, the male connector inside the end cap will slot into a matching female connector in the body which is why there's no wire in-between.

 

[NickT]

Thanks for all the help. I've given up trying to disassemble any further, as I'd probably break something. Even with a bright Anglepoise and my reading glasses on, it's too fiddly for me. Putting those screws back in when the sliding bit is back in position was enough to try the patience of a saint. If I ever use the camera I'll just sunny whatever estimate the exposure. I don't think I'd ever be able to scan the negs with my Scan Dual II neg carrier which takes 6 x 35mm strips. If you ever need the scans of the tank instructions, just pm me your e-mail and I'll mail them to you.

 

[stevelmx5]

No problem Nick and thanks for the offer of the instructions but I read through them online the other night so should be ok. I've just realised that one of the empty cartridges that came with the camera isn't actually empty. The fact it was taped together gave it away! I reckon I might use that film as my first dev test to combine a bit of practice with some 'found film' excitement :0)

 

[stevelmx5]

I keep picking up the Minox just because I can't get over how small it is!

This is next to a roll of 120;



The daylight tank is equally ridiculous. I've just filled it with water to check for leaks and can't believe how little water it actually holds :0)



(and the good news is that it's water tight!)

 

[stevelmx5]

I've been running through the unopened roll of Minopan B&W that came with the Minox and am finding it strangely appealing. There's something relaxing about shooting at hyperfocal the majority of the time (everything between 6' and infinity is in focus) and only worrying about shutter speed, with the camera being fixed at f3.5.

Me being me, my brain's been whirring around thinking about how I can better use the space where the light meter is and I 'think' I've come up with something fitting of the secret agent heritage....



That's a Projecteo mini projector :0) The company take a selection of your Instagram pictures and convert them into a slide film disc (like a Disc camera) which can then be slotted into a small battery-powered projector. I've been in touch with Projecteo to try and wangle a freebie but the best they would do was a discount code so I'm looking at other options at the moment. The basic idea of a battery powered LED, dual lenses and slide-through film channel is doable but I think fitting it inside this light meter housing may be a challenge too far! As an alternative, I've just been weighing up the flashbulb adaptor I've got here and I think that would be perfect for it instead



If I mount the Led and lenses inside the flashbulb adaptor and use it like a wand to project out of the end, there's more than enough room to fit batteries and a film channel.

I know what I'll be drawing up tomorrow along with ordering a roll of Velvia ready for slicing :0)

 

[stevelmx5]

Oh and yes, I already know I'm a bit nuts...

 

[ChrisR]

Let me get this straight, you're adapting a camera that's 2 inches long so that it will take pictures on film, develop and scan them, send them to instagram, download them and project them on a wall? Yes, mate, you're completely Brazil!!!!!

 

[stevelmx5]

Let me get this straight, you're adapting a camera that's 2 inches long so that it will take pictures on film, develop and scan them, send them to instagram, download them and project them on a wall? Yes, mate, you're completely Brazil!!!!!

Almost right except for the part where I scan them then send them to Instagram. That's for the Projecteo which prints digital images onto Slide film then fits them into a disc. I'm intending on feeding the actual 8x11 Minox film through a miniature projector that's built into the flashbulb adaptor ;0)

 

[Nod]

Hey! Just to go even more nuts, you could then take a shot of the projected image as an analogue backup!!!