Taking children out of school for holidays

Would you take your children out of school for a holiday

  • yes

    Votes: 40 57.1%

  • no

    Votes: 30 42.9%
  • Total voters
    70
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You have made very good points Joe. Can you get a flight tonight?
 
joescrivens said:
Having been a teacher I can confirm that those things written above aren't an issue. You don't recover the old ground you expect the student to catch up in their own time. It rarely ever affects anyone else in the classroom.
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Having just spoken to my better half, who *is* a teacher, I can confirm they are an issue in the current classroom environment. If I may ask, when were you last active in the classroom as society's relationship with schools is changing rapidly, and you can no longer count on the support of parents in encouraging their children to 'catch up in their own time' - some consider it a petty rule and therefore not worth supporting.
 
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Hells bells, has noone else noticed the appalling state of education these days, whereby 44% of graduates need basic literacy training, most of whom couldn't pass a 1950's 11-plus exam.......
In that context, the idea of the state being able to fine you for taking your offspring on holiday is frankly ludicrous, and a gross over-stepping of the mark by BIg Brother....

I would add that, being environmentally aware, to take your kids abroad by air is teaching them that despoilation of the planet is OK -(and to visit Disney in Florida..........you are kidding?)
 
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cambsno said:
Have taken son out of school already and will be doing do again in sept. no harm done and as its a farm holiday will learn a lot too. Planning a Disney trip in a couple of years and will do the same then if its cheaper.
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Very educational :LOL:
 
joescrivens said:
The real point is this:

Do what's in your family and child's best interest. If that means not going in school time then do that.

If not then take them out.

But don't let the government tell you what's best for your own family and child (y) :clap::clap:
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Agree 1,000,000%. I know what's best for my family, not some pen pusher.
 
joescrivens said:
How do you figure that?

Prices change based on supply and demand. If there was less demand in July be use peopl were going in April or may or even feb then prices woud drop.

Seems pretty obvious to me. That's usually how economics work.
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Not sure where you get that from Joe, prices for most like for like holidays in this country are relatively high no matter what the month is.
 
joescrivens said:
I think you are wrong. Supply and demand. I doubt we'll agree though so no point regurgitating the point.
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well I know we won't agree - but given that I actually run holiday accomodation as part of my job, and you basically don't , I am actually qualified to say that you are wrong on this point

repeating supply and demand over and over again won't make you any righter.
 
joescrivens said:
The real point is this:

Do what's in your family and child's best interest....

But don't let the government tell you what's best for your own family and child (y) :clap::clap:
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Absolutely, teach your child to break the law if they don't agree with it, thats in their best inter... oh wait a minuite :LOL:
 
Furtim said:
Having just spoken to my better half, who *is* a teacher, I can confirm they are an issue in the current classroom environment. If I may ask, when were you last active in the classroom as society's relationship with schools is changing rapidly, and you can no longer count on the support of parents in encouraging their children to 'catch up in their own time' - some consider it a petty rule and therefore not worth supporting.
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I was last full time about 6 years ago but I still am involved with my local school at the moment voluntarily in the classroom while I have some spare time at the moment. I'm also regularly in touch with teachers as part of my job and the majority of my friends are teachers and also concur that it's only an issue when it comes to year 10 and 11 or during coursework and exams, generally it's no big deal
 
f1charlie said:
What did you teach Joe? Hope it wasn't English!
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I taught science, although I don't think your comment is particularly kind or in keeping with the friendliest forum on the net. Also not really representative of English and grammar on the interweb is it.

Although grammar and spelling has never been my strongest point I'll admit that
 
u8myufo said:
Not sure where you get that from Joe, prices for most like for like holidays in this country are relatively high no matter what the month is.
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I get that from both the holidays I have booked this year which are more expensive in the school holiday months and cheaper and very affordable in term time.
 
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big soft moose said:
well I know we won't agree - but given that I actually run holiday accomodation as part of my job, and you basically don't , I am actually qualified to say that you are wrong on this point

repeating supply and demand over and over again won't make you any righter.
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And yet I can show you evidence that backs up my opinion but it won't make a difference so there's really no point.
 
No offence intended, but just because it's the internet I don't think there's any excuse for poor grammar and spelling - call me an old fart!
 
big soft moose said:
Absolutely, teach your child to break the law if they don't agree with it, thats in their best inter... oh wait a minuite :LOL:
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We all break laws or rules to some extent. We have all (probably) broken the speed limit willingly, stolen something (copying music for example), parked illegally... There is a time to stand your ground and to do what you believe is right, a number of rules are an ass!
 
joescrivens said:
I was last full time about 6 years ago but I still am involved with my local school at the moment voluntarily in the classroom while I have some spare time at the moment. I'm also regularly in touch with teachers as part of my job and the majority of my friends are teachers and also concur that it's only an issue when it comes to year 10 and 11 or during coursework and exams, generally it's no big deal
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As I said in my first post, the impact increases the further up the school you go. GCSE years are now 9, 10 & 11 in my kids school (for the youngest), it was just 10 & 11 for the other two. So I agree with you that it is a problem in the latter years, so presumably you would not advocate taking a child out in those years.

I would also readily agree that it is unlikely to be an issue in years R, 1 or 2 for example, but at what point does it become an issue? Year 6 when you end of year grades will affect how your secondary school views you? Year 7, year 8 - when many languages are running on an accelerated programme?

There comes a point where you have to set a rule for the majority. Personally, I would say no term time holidays post year 5 to keep it simple and consistent - but then families don't normally have just the one kid and this does become restrictive.
 
cambsno said:
We all break laws or rules to some extent. We have all (probably) broken the speed limit willingly, stolen something (copying music for example), parked illegally... There is a time to stand your ground and to do what you believe is right, a number of rules are an ass!
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So are those examples you've given 'right' then.
 
cambsno said:
We all break laws or rules to some extent. We have all (probably) broken the speed limit willingly, stolen something (copying music for example), parked illegally... There is a time to stand your ground and to do what you believe is right, a number of rules are an ass!
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In my case ive occasionally accidentally broken the speed limit by a little bit - Ive never stolen anying (including copyright violations ), or parked illegally.

However even if I had occasionally broken the law , it would never occur to me to teach a child that it was right to do so
 
Furtim said:
As I said in my first post, the impact increases the further up the school you go. GCSE years are now 9, 10 & 11 in my kids school (for the youngest), it was just 10 & 11 for the other two. So I agree with you that it is a problem in the latter years, so presumably you would not advocate taking a child out in those years.

I would also readily agree that it is unlikely to be an issue in years R, 1 or 2 for example, but at what point does it become an issue? Year 6 when you end of year grades will affect how your secondary school views you? Year 7, year 8 - when many languages are running on an accelerated programme?

There comes a point where you have to set a rule for the majority. Personally, I would say no term time holidays post year 5 to keep it simple and consistent - but then families don't normally have just the one kid and this does become restrictive.
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We are in agreement for a large part of what you say. I wouldn't take a year 10 or 11 out. Year 9 is on the cusp I think, depends on what part of the year - certainly after christmas would be detrimental - but for example the last week of the year before the school holidays or in the first few months of the year - no I dont think its a big deal.

For the rest of their school life - R to 8 i think its more about the timing of the time out - around sats or starting of school could be deterimental certianly. But dodge these risk areas and alls good in my opinion

By the way I should say I also respect your parnter has a different opinion and its valid for sure (y)
 
big soft moose said:
In my case ive occasionally accidentally broken the speed limit by a little bit - Ive never stolen anying (including copyright violations ), or parked illegally.

However even if I had occasionally broken the law , it would never occur to me to teach a child that it was right to do so
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Personally I think this is all a bit dramatic - teaching children to break the law etc -

My parents took us out of school plenty of times - we didn't grow up in prison or in trouble with the police. It's quite a stretch of imagination to use that argument that you'd only see here on TP.
 
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joescrivens said:
And yet I can show you evidence that backs up my opinion but it won't make a difference so there's really no point.
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The thing is joe you can't - because your point is factually wrong.

Yes holiday accomodation is more expensive in the school holidays, but that isnt because of supply and demand , because even at peak times supply isnt exhausted.

(as those who stayed awake in their economic lectures will know the rule of supply and demand suggests that when demand exceeds supply the price rises, when supply exceeds demand the price falls)

So if this were actually applied to holiday accomodation the price of pitches/houses etc would be falling even in august because there is still a greater supply than the demand requires (you do see S&D pricing on special events like festivals etc when demand far exceeds supply and people start charging whacking great premiums just because they can)

The principal reason the price goes up in the summer holidays is actually far more simple - the provision of holiday accomodation is a product - and you can charge more for accomodation in the summer holidays because thats what people are willing to pay for , when all the tourist attactions are shut, your product is less desirable so you can't charge as much.

If you extend the period in which family holidays are taken, the family attractions will also extend their hours and providers will be able to charge more for longer (athough there is a finite high season as you'll never be able to charge the same when its peeing freezing rain with a gale behind it, as in a hot august. )

The other reason the price goes up in school holidays or when there are kids arround is because if you have lots of kids on site / in a house the overhead is higher - kids make more mess, leave lights and utilities on more, leave the campsite taps running because they think its funny , etc

Thats my final post on this thread , as I have no interest in a long running debate with someone who doesnt work in the industry and has no real experience of how these things work
 
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big soft moose said:
The thing is joe you can't - because your point is factually wrong.
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if I was the one carrying this topic on Pete I'd be told I was splitting hairs or labouring the point or like a dog with a bone... but you can do this uninterupted.

I have evidence that refutes your first point ... But you know what I'm going to leave it there because I know what will happen otherwise :shrug:

if you want to PM me and we can discuss it privately feel free to do so (y)
 
joescrivens said:
I have evidence that refutes your first point ...
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something you read on the internet isnt the same as evidence joe - if you want to take it to pm please feel free to send me whatever "evidence" you have but otherwise lets just leave it (and incidentally you are the one that won't let this go - so trying to seize the moral highground when you have a well founded reputation of being willing to argue with a mirror isnt doing anyone any favours)
 
big soft moose said:
something you read on the internet isnt the same as evidence joe - if you want to take it to pm please feel free to send me whatever "evidence" you have but otherwise lets just leave it (and incidentally you are the one that won't let this go - so trying to seize the moral highground when you have a well founded reputation of being willing to argue with a mirror isnt doing anyone any favours)
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ok bud.

ok
 
Furtim said:
As I said in my first post, the impact increases the further up the school you go. GCSE years are now 9, 10 & 11 in my kids school (for the youngest), it was just 10 & 11 for the other two. So I agree with you that it is a problem in the latter years, so presumably you would not advocate taking a child out in those years.

I would also readily agree that it is unlikely to be an issue in years R, 1 or 2 for example, but at what point does it become an issue? Year 6 when you end of year grades will affect how your secondary school views you? Year 7, year 8 - when many languages are running on an accelerated programme?

There comes a point where you have to set a rule for the majority. Personally, I would say no term time holidays post year 5 to keep it simple and consistent - but then families don't normally have just the one kid and this does become restrictive.
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Some well made points in all your posts on this subject! But I suspect it's another typical thread by the OP which, on the surface appears to ask a reasonable question, but then is just a platform for him to belittle every opinion that doesn't conform to his.

We'll be getting close to the "we'll have to agree to disagree" stage soon.
 
Spuff said:
Some well made points in all your posts on this subject! But I suspect it's another typical thread by the OP which, on the surface appears to ask a reasonable question, but then is just a platform for him to belittle every opinion that doesn't conform to his.

We'll be getting close to the "we'll have to agree to disagree" stage soon.
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You know I really wish people wouldn't come into threads with posts like these. All they do is cause animosity and are unhelpful. The thread is going perfectly well and we're having an intelligent conversation about an interesting topic. My last reply to Furtim was


joescrivens said:
We are in agreement for a large part of what you say.

...

By the way I should say I also respect your parnter has a different opinion and its valid for sure (y)
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Which pretty much negates your point. Thankfully the mods removed a couple of other posts in this thread which were along these lines of simply being disruptive and I would ask people to just please stop causing trouble and allow the sensible discussion to carry on

please
 
I was a governor and later a Chair of Governors foe a secondary school, then a community governor for a primary school. Also a Consultant Governor for a local authority.

Whatever the reasoning for taking kids out of schoolthe Department for Education set down a clear policy that schools resist allowing children to be allowed to be taken out for holidays during term time. Stats on where it happrns sre reviewed by Ofsted and can effect the determination of assessments.

On an individual basis it may seem inocuous but it is listed as Unauthorised Absence and returns on how many etc are a required metric. Some schools are or aleady have instituted Fixed Penalties.

The school will advise but it is noe a big deal.

Steve
 
Just to reiterate to everyone. I do respect and understand your decisions to stick to school holidays times (y)
 
I used to take my kids out of school during term time to go on holidays etc never did them any harm.
 
joescrivens said:
"not" or "now"?
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Now

LA can issue penalty notice £££

That said the charge will be less than savings o holiday cost and the benefit of less crowded resorts

Not all LA have implemented fines

S
 
Hugh Jarse said:
Now

LA can issue penalty notice £££

That said the charge will be less than savings o holiday cost and the benefit of less crowded resorts

Not all LA have implemented fines

S
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Exactly the fine is £50 per child per incident which may rise to £60. A penalty well worth paying inmo for the benefit the child and family gets (y)
 
strumstrum said:
what benefit is the child getting exactly?
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All kinds of things depending on the holiday.

In our example of our farm holiday both my kids had more opportunity to get involved with the farm due to it being quiet. My daughter drove the tractor with the farmer, had the chance to find the eggs herself because there were only a couple of other children around. Fed the 2 lambs and got more turns at it

The list goes on and on.
 
My son is 2. All I ever hear from my friends or colleagues is go on holiday out of school term now whilst you can as it is a) cheaper and b) less crowded. I find there is a huge difference, and it is easier to book flights etc. Some of this of course is because the weather is (supposedly) better in the July \ August etc so it would be pricier then anyway of course.

I'm not sure what we will do once he is at school however, if I was confident it would not unduly affect him I would certainly consider it.
 
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