TFCD models, (mini rant + discuss)

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ki_user

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What a waste of space, 1st one I arranged a shoot with a couple of months ago, text me a couple of hours before the shoot and said she couldn't come because she was out of petrol.

One arranged for today text me asking if I would TFCD a 14 year old who wanted to get into modelling at the same time, bit miffed. Taking the p*** a bit I thought. I explained that I'd need a parent to sign a consent form, hoping this would put her off. She said that's fine as her mum would be coming.

I politely told her I didn't need any more teenagers in my portfolio, but if she still wanted a shoot I do it for less than half price (seeing as I was in the studio anyway).

The reply was, sorry I can't do it then as the mother of the kid was her lift, sorry to mess me about. To which I have not replied for fear of being arrested.

:bang::bang::bang::bang::bang::bang::bang::bang:

So rant over, what's your TFCD nightmares? I'm guessing this isn't the worst story.
 
God you dont have much luck with them bloody models mate. Not very pro of them at all
 
People will generally attach as much value (importance) to something as they are paying for it. In this case you clearly had more invested than they did.

Out of interest, do you issue a zero-value contract for TCFD? Could you both sign a contract, stating that the usual sitting fee was being waived in return for mutual portfolio benefit - but including a real cost no-show fee (including a fee payable by you if you called off). That would attach a value for both of you. Might make the model take it more seriously.
 
Alastair said:
People will generally attach as much value (importance) to something as they are paying for it. In this case you clearly had more invested than they did.

Out of interest, do you issue a zero-value contract for TCFD? Could you both sign a contract, stating that the usual sitting fee was being waived in return for mutual portfolio benefit - but including a real cost no-show fee (including a fee payable by you if you called off). That would attach a value for both of you. Might make the model take it more seriously.
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I never thought of that, what a very good idea, I can tell you I'll be doing it from now on.
 
Alastair said:
People will generally attach as much value (importance) to something as they are paying for it. In this case you clearly had more invested than they did.
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that's the reason I don't do freebies anymore. Have only done about 5 in my lifetime and everytime is worse although I was a better tog everytime I did the shoots. I mean - I had loads of fun etc, but the work didn't get too much attention, from now on - only to good friends who would be in fear of p**sing me off :LOL:
 
All I can say is at least they contacted you and you knew they were not going to turn up, some don't even do that. I no longer leave the house if I am doing a location shoot or get my studio set up until I hear the model is on their way or about to leave.

The exception to this was our model for the Sussex studio shoot - she texted to let us know she would be a few minutes late as she was stuck behind a tractor and was brilliant.
 
had no problems with any of mine (touch wood).

if they are on purestorm or model mayhem post



ki_user said:
What a waste of space, 1st one I arranged a shoot with a couple of months ago, text me a couple of hours before the shoot and said she couldn't come because she was out of petrol.

One arranged for today text me asking if I would TFCD a 14 year old who wanted to get into modelling at the same time, bit miffed. Taking the p*** a bit I thought. I explained that I'd need a parent to sign a consent form, hoping this would put her off. She said that's fine as her mum would be coming.

I politely told her I didn't need any more teenagers in my portfolio, but if she still wanted a shoot I do it for less than half price (seeing as I was in the studio anyway).

The reply was, sorry I can't do it then as the mother of the kid was her lift, sorry to mess me about. To which I have not replied for fear of being arrested.

:bang::bang::bang::bang::bang::bang::bang::bang:

So rant over, what's your TFCD nightmares? I'm guessing this isn't the worst story.
Click to expand...
 
I think to an extent, it's luck of the draw. I use Purestorm and Model Mayhem, for TFP work, and have never had any no-shows or last minute cancellations. Mind you I do get a few stuck in traffic/train delayed and will be a bit late (Probably meaning I didn't get out of bed in time!). :)
 
Car trouble.. (wasn't in it early enough..)
 
spoke too soon. Had my first no show in 5 years of photography. had txted before so she know where and when but never replied to my txts asking where she was or let me know she was not coming. :thumbsdown:


POAH said:
had no problems with any of mine (touch wood).

if they are on purestorm or model mayhem post
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I have used a few free models and my daughter models free currently. Not had any issues yet but had four models all after a gig then when I organise one three can't be bothered to even answer. The other is really quite keen.
 
Alastair said:
People will generally attach as much value (importance) to something as they are paying for it. In this case you clearly had more invested than they did.

Out of interest, do you issue a zero-value contract for TCFD? Could you both sign a contract, stating that the usual sitting fee was being waived in return for mutual portfolio benefit - but including a real cost no-show fee (including a fee payable by you if you called off). That would attach a value for both of you. Might make the model take it more seriously.
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I would love to see you enforce this. It aint realistic.
 
I'll have a few models at the shoot near Manchester in about a months time. Should give plenty of options to boost peoples portfolios. I know it is not a short journey but for a tenner its certainly worth it from Wales (not sure its dooable from the south coast though!)
 
From my own experiences it's about finding people you can work with - I have a number of models/prospective models that we actually help each other a lot.

Have had my share of bad experiences/let downs in the past but you get a feel for how focused in really being a model somebody is - I reckon I wouldn't work on TFP with more than 1 in 10 who ask about it.

Ask them the question do they know how to model and of they don't appreciate the skills to be learnt then they are doubtful if they will cut it.

Tim

www.timothycook.co.uk
 
Daryl said:
Whats wrong with paying for models??? you get what you pay for!!!!
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I agree, this is no different than not paying your wedding photographer then acting surprised when they screw up your special day.

Photographer want to get paid, so do models...






..
 
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Not that I use models much (ever) but I have noticed that it seems to go:

Models that are actually models and do paid work but are happy to do tfcd too = Great, know what professionalism is and understand the concept of bartering time for skill.

Models that are just pretty girls that want to be models and will do tfcd coz they're too skint/cheap to pay a tog = Not worth your time. Will cancel at the drop of a hat or more likely, just not show up.

I'm sure there's similar discussion between models of togs that take weeks and weeks to send out cds or prints or who were disgustingly pervy or letchy on shoots etc.
 
gingerweasel said:
I agree, this is no different than not paying your wedding photographer then acting surprised when they screw up your special day.

Photographer want to get paid, so do models...
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I agree you do get what you pay for, I can't afford to pay for models and a lot of models can't afford to pay for a photographer, if this is the case you'd think there would be a bit more commitment. BTW both models contacted me rather than the other way around. :thinking:
 
Marcus Geezer said:
I would love to see you enforce this. It aint realistic.
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It isn't about enforcing it.. it's about discouraging the timewasters from the start. It's also about establishing a nominal value to establish the perceived worth of the arrangement.

If you can't take the job seriously enough to write it down, how can you expect a TFP model to take it seriously? Odds are that you as a 'tog doing TFP work attach more value to it than the model.
 
because I dont have the money.

the models get paid in images they can use in their portfolio.

we can look at it another way - why don't models pay to get their images.


Daryl said:
Whats wrong with paying for models??? you get what you pay for!!!!
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Have to say that I haven't used any paid-for models as yet, and neither have I used MM or any other site. I've just contacted people I know who do modeling and ask them if they would like to do such and such.

I've not been let down yet at all and each of the models I've worked with have been super.
 
i think you should pay for models - without question. But i don't think you should be paying for someone who wants to be a model.

just in the same way that someone who wants to be a model should pay for a pro tog, but not for someone who wants to be a pro tog.

or did somebody already say that earlier? :geek:
 
leftcurl said:
i think you should pay for models - without question. :geek:
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I don't understand that statement... I am much more likely to get the model to pay me for the shoot as they are going to get some great photos for their portfolio. The exception is if I'm getting paid for the shoot, in which case I would pay the model accordingly; but that is not normal TFCD.
 
Gordon Scott said:
I don't understand that statement... I am much more likely to get the model to pay me for the shoot as they are going to get some great photos for their portfolio. The exception is if I'm getting paid for the shoot, in which case I would pay the model accordingly; but that is not normal TFCD.
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yes... what i mean is... if i am an amateur tog and i want to use the services of a pro model... then i pay for her services - and it works the other way round too.

if we're both amateurs, then it's TFP/TFCD... simples.
 
Daryl said:
Whats wrong with paying for models??? you get what you pay for!!!!
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I'm afraid I totally agree here - TFCD is a cop-out used by cheap-skates IMO.
Pay the model. Get better images. (y)

What guarantee does the model have that your images are going to be any use to her anyway?
 
Arkady said:
I'm afraid I totally agree here - TFCD is a cop-out used by cheap-skates IMO.
Pay the model. Get better images. (y)

What guarantee does the model have that your images are going to be any use to her anyway?
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Well, I would say that if you are going to do a TFCD shoot, that both of you MUST agree on a format, and what each of you want to gain from it, otherwise it's a complete waste of time for both of you.

TFP/CD does work providing you have lots of comms before the shoot goes ahead.

Steve
 
by that logic models should pay photographers to get images.



models choose photographers on the basis of the photographers work.

TFP is a mutal agreement - the photographer still has to pay the studio costs.

there is no guarantee the model will be able to pose well either, there are risks for both

Arkady said:
I'm afraid I totally agree here - TFCD is a cop-out used by cheap-skates IMO.
Pay the model. Get better images. (y)

What guarantee does the model have that your images are going to be any use to her anyway?
Click to expand...
 
Arkady said:
I'm afraid I totally agree here - TFCD is a cop-out used by cheap-skates IMO.
Pay the model. Get better images. (y)

What guarantee does the model have that your images are going to be any use to her anyway?
Click to expand...

If that statement is correct, that means I am a cheap-skate, well if not paying a model for a couple of hours time means my family can have a few little luxuries now and again then so be it. Not everyone using this forum is in the position, I would love to be able to say, I want to shoot her, drop her a line and pay for her time. CAN'T AFFORD TO, SIMPLE AS!
 
ki_user said:
If that statement is correct, that means I am a cheap-skate, well if not paying a model for a couple of hours time means my family can have a few little luxuries now and again then so be it. Not everyone using this forum is in the position, I would love to be able to say, I want to shoot her, drop her a line and pay for her time. CAN'T AFFORD TO, SIMPLE AS!
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Can't afford to? :LOL:
You picked the right hobby then, didn't you?
 
Arkady said:
Can't afford to? :LOL:
You picked the right hobby then, didn't you?
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I didn't pick it as a hobby, I am trying to make some cash out of it. For reasons I won't go into on a forum, I can no longer work. Photography at the moment seems to be the only way I can make some money. TFCD was purely to pad out my website, as well as practice.

As I said before, not everyone on here is in the same situation.
 
ki_user said:
If that statement is correct, that means I am a cheap-skate, well if not paying a model for a couple of hours time means my family can have a few little luxuries now and again then so be it. Not everyone using this forum is in the position, I would love to be able to say, I want to shoot her, drop her a line and pay for her time. CAN'T AFFORD TO, SIMPLE AS!
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Don't shoot models then, try landscapes? Don't upgrade your camera, buy new lenses?
It's always a tradeoff, only you can make that decision, but sometimes you need to invest in the proper tools for the job.
 
Byker28i said:
Don't shoot models then, try landscapes? Don't upgrade your camera, buy new lenses?
It's always a tradeoff, only you can make that decision, but sometimes you need to invest in the proper tools for the job.
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I can't make any decent cash out of shooting landscapes, I don't upgrade my camera and lenses.

Why do people always make assumptions? :thinking:
 
ki_user said:
I didn't pick it as a hobby, I am trying to make some cash out of it.
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If it's your business then you surely it's not unreasonable to be prepared to invest some money in it to get proper, professional models?

There's an old saying about breaking eggs to make omlettes....
 
Flash In The Pan said:
If it's your business then you surely it's not unreasonable to be prepared to invest some money in it to get proper, professional models?

There's an old saying about breaking eggs to make omlettes....
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You would think that wouldn't you...... but no. There are far too many eggs broken already.

Any chance we can actually get back to the original topic of the thread or not bother.
 
ki_user said:
You would think that wouldn't you...... but no. There are far too many eggs broken already.

Any chance we can actually get back to the original topic of the thread or not bother.
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Oh, okay, how about "you pay peanuts (or in this case nowt) and get monkeys"?
 
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