The Amazing Sony A1/A7/A9/APS-C & Anything else welcome Mega Thread!

SsSsSsSsSnake said:
im not defending Canon just replying to one of your earlier posts ;)
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Which one?

Raymond Lin said:
Well, I have never taken the view of consumer/enthusiast because it's not the the area I frequent (when people ask me "Raymond, what's a best camera for £300? I honestly don't have a clue." , and I've always look at it as a system so something to grow into, hence that's how i look at it. CPS is a must, I never knew when I started this is where i end up, I remember sitting in the pub back around 2001 talking about getting paid to take photos. I'd laugh at the idea, but it's what it is now, luckily I made a choice picking Canon, I could've picked Nikon. The reason I picked Canon was at the time they had better glass, I think they still do.

The weight of your answer lies in the bodies. Most of them if you look at the 1D series are up there with the best, and when you dilute and break it down like that it becomes a ridiculous comparison, because you end up asking "which one uses the best font". Bodies get replaced and updated regularly, I have always look bigger, from the start people have always told me to invest in glass and if I were to start again today….with hindsight, I might still go with Canon because I know I have all those glass.

And then get my A7III like i did.

And I don't know the exact reasons, and all things being equal and if you are a staff photographers where there is no budget, why do they shoot Canon? 1 generations of bodies doesn't make something "the best". If you are talking about any of them in general then you have to take into account of everything, CPS included. If you cap it at a certain level then you are only talking about gear, not a system.

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But you’re talking about a different thing, I was discussing the consumer/enthusiast market and you’re talking the pro market. Do you know the real reason Canon now have the best pro market? It all stems from the introduction of AF systems. Up until then Nikon were the choice of pros, the AF system came into play, Nikon were too slow to develop it and everyone jumped ship to Canon. Canon then had the mass market, were able to develop their pro section as a result and there’s never been a good enough reason for the masses to swap back. That’s not to say the Canon system (barring pro support) or lenses are better, just that people are invested plus have developed their ergonomic preference for the Canon layout.

Are Canon lenses better than Nikon? Some are some aren’t, as a whole you’re splitting hairs.

But back to my original statement as an enthusiast. If I was to start from scratch which would I choose assuming I preferred the ergonomics equally?

Lenses -tit for tat
Flash system - both have everything.
Customer service - neither are particular great or poor.
Accessories - plenty for both
3rd party availability - the same

So what does that leave? The cameras themselves. I agree bodies come and go, but as the above are equal I would want the best body and best bang for buck.

This is the basis of my statement. But this would be my choice based on the facts provided, I’m not saying it should be everyone’s choice (y).

If I was a pro tog then my choice may very well be different, but as I am not in that position it’s just hypothetical.
 
snerkler said:
Nikon D600 was poor, everything else has been handled well. It’s not as though other brands haven’t had their issues, including Canon. Sony just fix it by bringing out another camera ;)
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To be fair that's what the D610 was, I can't think when Sony did that though they suck at firmware updates.
 
snerkler said:
Yes, but then there are other things too, best sensor, best ergonomics, best AF system, best features in which case what is best gets slightly more muddied.

If I was buying into a DSLR system from scratch it would be Nikon all day long for a given price point. For example the Canon 5div and D850 are a similar price point, but the D850 is better in just about every area barring live view AF. Build quality about the same. Lens choice, take your pick. Flash system, again take your pic (nikon’s CLS is very good). Tried and tested reliability, not heard any major problems from either. After sale tech support, you hear good and bad from both. I’ve had excellent service from Nikon. Canon have a better pro service granted but we’ve been taking consumer/enthusiasts.

So imo the systems are pretty much on a par, but at present Nikon are making noticeably better bodies for a price point.

Just for the record I have no brand preference or loyalty, I just go with whatever offers the best at the time for the price I can afford (y)
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Raymond Lin said:
Devil’s advocate...Sony certainly has taken a leap in the past 12 months since the A9, but having 3 bodies that are killing it does it make it the best?

I mean objectively speaking, which brand is the best?

Most complete native lens selection.
Most complete native flash system.
Tried and tested reliability.
Tried and tested durability.
After sale tech support.
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Canon is my answer unfortunately.
 
woof woof said:
I think the thought is that they hobble their cameras.

As to selling lots of kit... I've no doubt they do but you'd have to be a hard core Canon nut to point at some of their latter kit and say "Yup. They're really going for it with that one."
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According to the threads I read, one man's hobbling is another persons differentiating the range, depending on what side of the augment you are on. Both are valid points of view. I question manufacturers design choices as much as anyone else. :rolleyes: :D
simonbarker said:
Why ask such a redundant question? You already know the answer.
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Why do you think it is a redundant question? If I knew the answer I would not ask it, so it is not redundant. :)

simonbarker said:
Nobody's forcing you to be here to save Canon's honour either and yet here you are. Telling me Canon's sales figures doesn't make their products any better, why are you so obsessed with their sales figures? Does it help you take better photos?
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Nobody is forcing me to do anything. :) I'm not saying anything for Canon's honour or whatever. Am I not allowed here or something? Am I not allowed and opinion that is different to you or anyone else? :thinking: I was replying to posts saying Canon were doing things wrong. Which manufacturer doesn't. :rolleyes: Just saying, they can't be doing things too badly though because, and this is where the sales figures are relevant, they still lead the market, so are giving most people what they want.

That a lot of users may be uninformed as to the positives and negatives of a certain brand, or a type of camera, is neither here nor there, because they are not doing enough wrong for most people to significantly harm their position in the market. And in this case, Sony are not doing enough right quickly enough, and telling enough people about it to quickly alter their position.

Do the sales figures help take better pictures? No, of course not. But I think you knew that already. ;)

What leading the market for so long does give you is a well rounded system on many levels with many lenses and accessories to choose from, that some newer brands may take many years to get close to, if indeed they ever do. If you take advantage of all that of course, which many don't. But that reality is why many none photographers/beginners may have the perception that Canon are the best. ;)
 
Not been on line for a few hours. What have I missed? Lots of willy waving?


Anyway - on way home from the boxing at the o2. Was lucky to be in the corporate box and just below us were togs with 400mm 2.8 and 300mm 2.8 lenses. I’d always thought it was only at ringside they stood.

Anyway, these guys had their macs with them and their workflow was incredible. Pretty much crop, save, send. Guy must have edited 50 photos in a minute.
Interesting to watch.
 
Just a few random thoughts on some previous posts.

Canon do indeed have a larger slice of the camera sales pie, probably mainly at Nikon's expense, but that pie got a whole lot smaller than even just a few years ago.

The EF to EF-M adapter works perfectly, perfectly for APS-C sized sensors that is, it won't cover the FF sensor image circle I believe. Both Nikon and Canon could of course make adapters for whatever the new mount is to be, assuming their FF Mirrorless cameras are going to be smaller then DSLRs.

Canon have just increased the price of their EF to EF-M adapter to £134.99p by the way, so the new Canon M50 suddenly isn't quite so cheap once that is factored in, third party adapters excepted of course.

Canon and Nikon love to starve lower end cameras of features. My first Nikon DSLR (D3200) had no bracketing capability whatsoever, my D7000 could manage 3 bracketed shots. My ancient 3.3MP Olympus C3000 can bracket up to 5 shots and didn't make my nose bleed in the process. It's been said elsewhere on this site that buyers shouldn't expect all the facilities of the Canon 1DX in a 1300D camera, well no, but what I do expect is a list of capabilities that at least matches or exceeds what other manufacturers provide at a given price point. 4K video has been available for years on Panasonic cameras, IBIS has been on all Olympus M43 cameras I believe. Deliberate marketing hobbling of specifications is going to bite at some point, like disabling dual pixel focusing in 4K on the M50, that's just plain dumb.

It appears Canon and Nikon have been complacent, even negligent, with regard to innovation and keeping abreast of technical innovations now possible with even entry level mirrorless cameras. The Achilles Heel of so many mirrorless cameras to date has been CAF, yet Canon had Dual Pixel focusing years ago, a technological lead just squandered to 'protect' DSLR sales.

Suddenly the Sony A73 lands with a big thud within the Boardrooms of Nikon and Canon. We will never know how much they already knew, but probably the biggest shock would have been the price point. Whatever Canon or Nikon produce in the future or distant future is going to be directly compared to this camera or an A9 Mk 2. Sony has some imminent third party lenses due and I can even use some of my existing Canon glass for most of my specific photography genres. Thom Hogan thinks the likes of Nikon only have the capacity to design (rather than redesign) and manufacture 3 or 4 new lenses per year, Canon perhaps slightly better, unless it's an EF-M lens apprentice running flat out at about a half a lens per year. So any new mounts will be a problem, adapters will be essential and it could take years to catch up for proper native lenses. The Boardrooms of Nikon and Canon may have a dilemma, push out a camera like the 5DM that might not match the Sony and probably not the price, or delay the launch to improve the functionality of the camera. Fixed sensors, massive crops for 4K and MJPEG file formats aren't going to impress in 2018.

The fact that Canon FF Mirrorless cameras are being tested by certain users at the moment really cuts no ice with me, what were they doing 3 years ago? What matters is what is available now or actually announced. My Canon 5D2 is almost certain to be replaced with the A73 unless the 5DM really can match the specifications, price and actually turns up to the party in time to play. Place your Bets!
 
How do you use Centre Lock On AF in this A7III?

Pressing the centre button on the Dial I get "setting not available Continuous Focus AF". I thought this only works on Continuous AF?
 
redhed17 said:
Just saying, they can't be doing things too badly though because, and this is where the sales figures are relevant, they still lead the market, so are giving most people what they want.
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History is littered with examples of companies having a large chunk of a market then through complacency allowing someone else to steal their lunch. Unlikely to happen with Canon as they don't make bad cameras but complacency is a good term to describe their behaviour and they are losing business because of it.

redhed17 said:
That a lot of users may be uninformed as to the positives and negatives of a certain brand, or a type of camera, is neither here nor there, because they are not doing enough wrong for most people to significantly harm their position in the market. And in this case, Sony are not doing enough right quickly enough, and telling enough people about it to quickly alter their position.
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In your opinion, the constant criticism of them combined with declining DSLR sales would seem to suggest things aren't going as swimmingly as you suggest.

redhed17 said:
Do the sales figures help take better pictures? No, of course not. But I think you knew that already. ;)
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Which makes me wonder why you obsess over it, in my first response I said it's not a case of Canon not knowing what they're doing yet you've repeatedly gone on about sales figures as if them having the largest chunk of the market helps us or that any bad decision can be ignored for the same reason.

redhed17 said:
What leading the market for so long does give you is a well rounded system on many levels with many lenses and accessories to choose from, that some newer brands may take many years to get close to, if indeed they ever do. If you take advantage of all that of course, which many don't. But that reality is why many none photographers/beginners may have the perception that Canon are the best. ;)
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No that's what happens when you stay in a market long enough, just ask Nikon. Why should anyone here care what none photographers/beginners think is the best company?
 
Sony will create some waves at the Olympics, wait and see.
You have to consider that most professionals have been using pro-DSLR’s for years and years and are used to them, hey if it works, why change something which isn’t broken?
For them to change to Sony, it would have to be for good reason / benefit (cost / feature set).
Do most pro sports photographers even browse the latest technology in bodies/brands etc? Are they gear heads like us?

Sony has implemented a pretty useful feature sets with the Sony A9, they have created some waves in that segment and the camera is now known to agencies / professionals.

Between now and the Olympics, so will keep marketing hard towards the top tier shooters and keep innovating to create the waves / buzz. The adoption rate by world famous sports shooters will be slow.

By the time the Olympics arrives, Sony will have the pro telephoto lenses, pro support and enough marketing drive for the professionals to truly see the benefits of they new A9 II body.

I’m expecting the Sony A9 II to be another game changing body.
Imagine a internal 4/5G sim slot to directly send photos to agencies?
Or and accompanying iPad style tablet which tethers to the body to perform instant onsite and distribution work?

Sony has a lot more innovation to come, the A9 is a first generation body :)
 
Riz_Guru said:
Sony will create some waves at the Olympics, wait and see.
You have to consider that most professionals have been using pro-DSLR’s for years and years and are used to them, hey if it works, why change something which isn’t broken?
For them to change to Sony, it would have to be for good reason / benefit (cost / feature set).
Do most pro sports photographers even browse the latest technology in bodies/brands etc? Are they gear heads like us?

Sony has implemented a pretty useful feature sets with the Sony A9, they have created some waves in that segment and the camera is now known to agencies / professionals.

Between now and the Olympics, so will keep marketing hard towards the top tier shooters and keep innovating to create the waves / buzz. The adoption rate by world famous sports shooters will be slow.

By the time the Olympics arrives, Sony will have the pro telephoto lenses, pro support and enough marketing drive for the professionals to truly see the benefits of they new A9 II body.

I’m expecting the Sony A9 II to be another game changing body.
Imagine a internal 4/5G sim slot to directly send photos to agencies?
Or and accompanying iPad style tablet which tethers to the body to perform instant onsite and distribution work?

Sony has a lot more innovation to come, the A9 is a first generation body :)
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Is the olympics the holy grail or something? I'm more interested in shots of F1 and Moto GP :p

Talking of F1
how Jammy was Vettel today :mad::mad::mad:
 
Practically unused A7RII going for £1250 in sales section :eek::eek::eek:

I guess that means I am keeping my body :D
 
nandbytes said:
Practically unused A7RII going for £1250 in sales section :eek::eek::eek:

I guess that means I am keeping my body :D
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That's a serious loss, wonder what's wrong with it?
 
snerkler said:
Is the olympics the holy grail or something? I'm more interested in shots of F1 and Moto GP :p

Talking of F1
how Jammy was Vettel today :mad::mad::mad:
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I think it’s Sony’s goal to have a big presence at the Olympics which they have stated themselves. I guess it might be a key milestone for them.
Between now and then Sony will knock out the required pro telephoto lenses and improve the Sony A9, Pro Support etc.
Obviously they’ll onsite be at other key sporting events before then especially Sony sponsored events etc. :D
 
woof woof said:
I wonder what an alien would make of all this if they beamed down to my living room and sat next to me viewing this thread?

Maybe they'd be baffled by the whole DSLR v CSC thing, maybe they'd be confused at the differences between Canon and Nikon and Sony... or maybe they'd just think "Why has Woof Woof got his hand on my thigh..."
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I am not an alien but this thread has certainly got me baffled, I am a very happy AR2 owner (and importantly) user the only let down for me is the caf, I think I will likely buy the A7III to use in addition to the AR2 for certain types of photography but I will wait until the bulls**t has stopped before I make up my mind.:snaphappy:
 
snerkler said:
That's a serious loss, wonder what's wrong with it?
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To be fair, with Sony knocking out bodies like they have been doing with big strides in advancements, the prices for the previous generation models seem to take a big tumble. :(
 
dancook said:
Need to buy that lens.. and maybe another A9 without the grip so i don't have to take it off for personal use





jokes
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:eek: lol ermm I just take the grip of my only A9 when I go light with the Zeiss 55mm f1.8
The Sony Zeiss 35mm f2.8 would complete my light setup but 35mm isn't a focal length I use much.
 
Riz_Guru said:
To be fair, with Sony knocking out bodies like they have been doing with big strides in advancements, the prices for the previous generation models seem to take a big tumble. :(
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The literal cost of their rate of development. :rolleyes:

I think it is interesting what Sony have done with their RX100 range where every new iteration comes at a higher price, with a big increase in features, but the previous model stays on sale. It seems to keep the resale value of those cameras tumbling. It seems to be a strategy rather than making too many cameras and over estimating demand before the next model comes out. ;)
 
T_J_G said:
You’re not helping...
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Haha! You will miss the low light CAF of your Nikon. Apart from 1.4 most people have said the low light CAF is not quite there... YET.

But of course without trying, who knows!!
 
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