The Amazing Sony A1/A7/A9/APS-C & Anything else welcome Mega Thread!

f/2.8 said:
I am not sure what people where expecting from the A7IV in truth it is probably above expectations and has pretty much most of the stuff that the majority of people had been asking for.
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In my opinion its to early to make comparisons, however I would have expected frame rate to be consistent across the file options and an improved evf, screen and noise control better than the Nikon z6ii
 
dcash29 said:
In my opinion its to early to make comparisons, however I would have expected frame rate to be consistent across the file options and an improved evf, screen and noise control better than the Nikon z6ii
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That doesn’t make any sense to me it would be a bit strange for a basic entry level do everything camera to have the same specs as other more specialised cameras.

There are advantages and disadvantages to every system and camera body the Z6II has pretty crap a.f for example.
 
Any thoughts on the sigma 17-50 2.8? I'm interested if it turns out to be £429!
 
Lefrash said:
Any thoughts on the sigma 17-50 2.8? I'm interested if it turns out to be £429!
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Do you means the new 18-50mm f2.8?
Seems like a very good replacement for a kit lens.
For the price and size the performance seems to be exceptional. I'd buy this lens if I was shooting APS-C.
 
f/2.8 said:
That doesn’t make any sense to me it would be a bit strange for a basic entry level do everything camera to have the same specs as other more specialised cameras.

There are advantages and disadvantages to every system and camera body the Z6II has pretty crap a.f for example.
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It makes perfect sense to me. Wouldn't you class the A7iii / Nikon z6ii an entry level comparison? I'm familiar that the focusing on the Nikon isnt as good but the high iso noise levels are far better.
 
dcash29 said:
It makes perfect sense to me. Wouldn't you class the A7iii / Nikon z6ii an entry level comparison? I'm familiar that the focusing on the Nikon isnt as good but the high iso noise levels are far better.
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Actually the high ISO performance is no better or worst on Nikon than any other similar body (definitely not far better)
 
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ancient_mariner said:
At £2300 the A7IV may be the general purpose camera of the system, but it's far from an entry level camera.
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But it is in terms of a full frame mirrorless camera.

Entry level mirrorless full framecameras from the other brands like the Canon R6 is a similar price. The Nikon Z6II is cheaper but it’s been around for a while now.

Proces for everything has increased, around £2400 is the new normal for a U.K supplied entry level full frame mirrorless camera. The A7III was entry level and launch at 2k so only a £400 price jump in 3-4 years is to be expected really considering the semi conductor supply issues and the pandemic.
 
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f/2.8 said:
But it is in terms of a full frame mirrorless camera.
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Entry level implies beginner features, rather than general un-specialised features. If it were under a grand and like an A7c with limited feature set, I'd agree. I don't know of any FX entry level cameras on the market right now.
 
ancient_mariner said:
Entry level implies beginner features, rather than general un-specialised features. If it were under a grand and like an A7c with limited feature set, I'd agree. I don't know of any FX entry level cameras on the market right now.
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It is the basic model. The A7c is a budget model below entry level.
 
f/2.8 said:
Don't get the Sony hate they have launched a huge amount of new gear this year which is pretty impressive considering the pandemic and supply chain issues. I am not one really for being a fanboy but Sony have absolutely smashed it over the last year.

I am not sure what people where expecting from the A7IV in truth it is probably above expectations and has pretty much most of the stuff that the majority of people had been asking for.

Most people wanted more res, the new card slots, a better evf, the new touchscreen menu, better video capability, the newer ergonomics, they did all of that and you also get the updated a.f capability as well. It is the entry level basic model in the range it wouldn't make any sense for it to be massively better spec than other models in the range. You could arguably say that the A7IV is the best value for money hybrid option now available and a good option for bloggers too, and that is what this model is all about, being good at most things without excelling in any particular area. If you want the high res you get the A7RIV, if you want the speed you get the A9II, if you want both you get the A1 and if you want video you get the A7SIII.
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Pretty much my thoughts on it all, they've made some meaningful step ups over the A73. The only area I think they could/should have improved is putting the frame rate up to. 10fps in real time and not slideshow. 10fps is ample without treading on toes of the flagships.
 
f/2.8 said:
Sony are Tamron's biggest share holder. Tamron are basically Sony's budget brand now days.

Don't get the Sony hate they have launched a huge amount of new gear this year which is pretty impressive considering the pandemic and supply chain issues. I am not one really for being a fanboy but Sony have absolutely smashed it over the last year.

The 50GM for example is an absolute wonder.

I am not sure what people where expecting from the A7IV in truth it is probably above expectations and has pretty much most of the stuff that the majority of people had been asking for.

Most people wanted more res, the new card slots, a better evf, the new touchscreen menu, better video capability, the newer ergonomics, they did all of that and you also get the updated a.f capability as well. It is the entry level basic model in the range it wouldn't make any sense for it to be massively better spec than other models in the range. You could arguably say that the A7IV is the best value for money hybrid option now available and a good option for bloggers too, and that is what this model is all about, being good at most things without excelling in any particular area. If you want the high res you get the A7RIV, if you want the speed you get the A9II, if you want both you get the A1 and if you want video you get the A7SIII.

While the A7IV doesn't appeal to me personally it does seem that Sony listened to what the majority of people were asking for and delivered it, there is always room for improvement of course.

If they were able to bring all of these things to the A9III when it comes while maintaining the speed and advantages of a stacked sensor I will be replacing all 6 of our bodies.
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It's not Sony 'Hate' at all. You can be critical without 'hating' Sony. I was referring solely to Sony in terms of the A7IV, not lenses. The camera I wanted wasn't a £2k A1, but rather something modestly improved in different areas than what Sony have gone for.

What I wanted, in order, was 1) better silent shooting (1/60-1/120 readout), 2)Lossless compressed RAW, 3) improved AF, 4)better EVF/screen 5))more robust/ergonomic body. So the 4IV delivers on two of these and kinda on another two but not at all on my number 1. Given the A9 is now 4 years old, I'd have thought some of the silent shutter capability could be ported over to the A7IV - even a 1/60 readout would've been a massive improvement. As it stands, the A7IV isn't a proper silent shooter. As I'm increasingly doing stills work, that's a big disappointment.

In terms of ergonomics, I like the A7sIII body but despise the screen as it actively hinders my shooting style. To appeal to vloggers, they've hamstrung it for photographers, which is galling. The EVF and Screen are only marginally improved in resolution but aren't even on par with last generation cameras like the A7RIII, if I've read the specs right. This isn't a deal breaker, but I'd hoped for slightly more. I'd say that touchscreen menus (and the redesign) aren't an exciting new feature, but rather a correction of a glaring absence in previous bodies, given that touchscreen tech was already there. Lossless Compressed RAW is also a correction of previous failings.

Did most people really want more res? I've not heard any of the A7 shooters I know say this - it's more of a case of 'I'll take it, but I don't need it'. For the foreseeable future, 24mp is a sweet spot for me and, you said it yourself, if you want high res you can get the A7RIV.

So, it isn't a case that my expectations were higher, but rather they were different. The camera I envisaged wouldn't have cannibalised others in the range, barring maybe the A9II which has already been usurped by the a1 at the top end. The A7R would still be Res-king, The A7sIII the video-king, and the A1 the king of them all.
 
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decigallen said:
It's not Sony 'Hate' at all. You can be critical without 'hating' Sony. I was referring solely to Sony in terms of the A7IV, not lenses. The camera I wanted wasn't a £2k A1, but rather something modestly improved in different areas than what Sony have gone for.

What I wanted, in order, was 1) better silent shooting (1/60-1/120 readout), 2)Lossless compressed RAW, 3) improved AF, 4)better EVF/screen 5))more robust/ergonomic body. So the 4IV delivers on two of these and kinda on another two but not at all on my number 1. Given the A9 is now 4 years old, I'd have thought some of the silent shutter capability could be ported over to the A7IV - even a 1/60 readout would've been a massive improvement. As it stands, the A7IV isn't a proper silent shooter. As I'm increasingly doing stills work, that's a big disappointment.

In terms of ergonomics, I like the A7sIII body but despise the screen as it actively hinders my shooting style. To appeal to vloggers, they've hamstrung it for photographers, which is galling. The EVF and Screen are only marginally improved in resolution but aren't even on par with last generation cameras like the A7RIII, if I've read the specs right. This isn't a deal breaker, but I'd hoped for slightly more. I'd say that touchscreen menus (and the redesign) aren't an exciting new feature, but rather a correction of a glaring absence in previous bodies, given that touchscreen tech was already there. Lossless Compressed RAW is also a correction of previous failings.

Did most people really want more res? I've not heard any of the A7 shooters I know say this - it's more of a case of 'I'll take it, but I don't need it'. For the foreseeable future, 24mp is a sweet spot for me and, you said it yourself, if you want high res you can get the A7RIV.

So, it isn't a case that my expectations were higher, but rather they were different. The camera I envisaged wouldn't have cannibalised others in the range, barring maybe the A9II which has already been usurped by the a1 at the top end. The A7R would still be Res-king, The A7sIII the video-king, and the A1 the king of them all.
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Perhaps hate was a strong word but so many negative posts on a camera that has been made for the masses not just talking about what you have said.

While I haven’t seen any pro’s looking for more res, I have seen many amateurs wanting more. 24mp has been a good sweet spot for some time but now that the cameras are capable of being so much faster a little more would be nice without going to the extremes of the A7RIV.

The A7IV wouldn’t be for me either, I couldn’t go back to an ordinary camera now I have got so used to using the A9’s. My missus didn’t want one either until she had a play with a pre production model the other day now she does want to upgrade her A7III’s.

Don’t think you will see A9 series sensor tech on an A7 series camera anytime soon well not until maybe they can offer something different for the A9/A1 series.
 
I'll probably upgrade in future when they come down in price. Mainly because my A7IIIs will have been pretty used by then. Though, if an A9III comes out, I might consider a few A9II bodies instead. All I know is this isn't a 'jump at it' upgrade for me, and most pros I have spoken to have said the same.
 
dcash29 said:
Ok, you've seen different to me (y)
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Not sure what you have seen but I have seen the side by side comparisons on many sites (like dpreview studio comparison etc) and sensor measurements on photonstophotos. They both say Nikon is about the same.
Also once you consider the fact that Nikon uses the same Sony sensor in their camera they can't really magic up far better performance, may be a wee bit better with better processing at best.
 
I'd never go back to a bigger body then the A7C. I hold out hope for maybe the mk4 A7C.
 
robj20 said:
I'd never go back to a bigger body then the A7C. I hold out hope for maybe the mk4 A7C.
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No interest in a mk2 or mk3 than seems early to make that decision mk4 will be what 9 years away based on it changing every 3 years
 
f/2.8 said:
No interest in a mk2 or mk3 than seems early to make that decision mk4 will be what 9 years away based on it changing every 3 years
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Zero interest in changing cameras every few years. Only change when it has features I really want.
 
robj20 said:
Zero interest in changing cameras every few years. Only change when it has features I really want.
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Do you have a crystal ball? How do you know that the A7c series won’t have any features you want until a mk4 version is available.

There may never even be another version they haven’t been that popular.
 
f/2.8 said:
Do you have a crystal ball? How do you know that the A7c series won’t have any features you want until a mk4 version is available.

There may never even be another version they haven’t been that popular.
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I think you may be reading things a little too literally. :)
 
nandbytes said:
Not sure what you have seen but I have seen the side by side comparisons on many sites (like dpreview studio comparison etc) and sensor measurements on photonstophotos. They both say Nikon is about the same.
Also once you consider the fact that Nikon uses the same Sony sensor in their camera they can't really magic up far better performance, may be a wee bit better with better processing at best.
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Some of the images on DPR are rather varied. Ive used the A7iii and the Nikon z6ii and if the latter had better af i'd move in an instance.
Possibly its a personal opinion, we'll agree to differ.
 
dcash29 said:
Some of the images on DPR are rather varied. Ive used the A7iii and the Nikon z6ii and if the latter had better af i'd move in an instance.
Possibly its a personal opinion, we'll agree to differ.
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There are several things that can affect the perception of noise, just like the perception of sharpness therefore it can be very subjective. For example some can produce more noise but it has a finer grain and therefore can be more pleasing.

I really like the Nikon bodies, and Nikon colours have always been my favourite but the native lens lineup isn’t there for me.
 
Can anyone help throw some light on something which happened this evening please.

I was taking photos and all was well, full electronic silent shutter and just some family stuff. Suddenly black banding started to happen? I thought it was maybe the fairground lights, although it was fine at another similar ride literally a few minutes earlier, so I took some photos of the nearby trees and it was still doing it?

I've got home and did a test in the kitchen (also LED lights) and it's fine again?!!?


1635024328489.png

1635024442104.png
 
gman said:
Can anyone help throw some light on something which happened this evening please.

I was taking photos and all was well, full electronic silent shutter and just some family stuff. Suddenly black banding started to happen? I thought it was maybe the fairground lights, although it was fine at another similar ride literally a few minutes earlier, so I took some photos of the nearby trees and it was still doing it?

I've got home and did a test in the kitchen (also LED lights) and it's fine again?!!?


View attachment 333790

View attachment 333791
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Electronic shutters can be affected by LED’s and banding is a known issue. Why it happens in some situations and not others I don’t know.

When shooting around LEDs it’s worth considering swapping to mechanical shutter and choosing a speed that doesn’t cause the issue.
 
gman said:
Can anyone help throw some light on something which happened this evening please.

I was taking photos and all was well, full electronic silent shutter and just some family stuff. Suddenly black banding started to happen? I thought it was maybe the fairground lights, although it was fine at another similar ride literally a few minutes earlier, so I took some photos of the nearby trees and it was still doing it?

I've got home and did a test in the kitchen (also LED lights) and it's fine again?!!?
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I agree with snerkler that electronic shutter is the issue ..........but we dont know ..were you shooting with xperia or 7RIV or...
 
wambam said:
I agree with snerkler that electronic shutter is the issue ..........but we dont know ..were you shooting with xperia or 7RIV or...
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It's the A9, which I thought didn't have this issue? It seemed strange that there was inconsistency.
 
f/2.8 said:
Do you have a crystal ball? How do you know that the A7c series won’t have any features you want until a mk4 version is available.

There may never even be another version they haven’t been that popular.
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No I don't have a crystal ball. Didn't have one when I had the A7R and waited the 8+ years for the A7C either. I think there are still a few of us in here that just don't upgrade all the time for the sake of it, has to be a meaningful reason, not just new shiny shiny.
I know for a fact it's going to be at least another 8 years if not even longer this time before i even consider anything else.

And yeah looks like it's doing terrible.
cameratimes.org

CAPA: Sony a7C is the Best Selling Camera in the First Half of June 2021 - Camera Times

The Japanese website CAPA Camera announced the top-selling camera rankings at the Yodobashi shopping site and 24 Yodobashi Camera stores nationwide in the first half of June 2021. The Sony a7C with
cameratimes.org
 
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gman said:
Can anyone help throw some light on something which happened this evening please.

I was taking photos and all was well, full electronic silent shutter and just some family stuff. Suddenly black banding started to happen? I thought it was maybe the fairground lights, although it was fine at another similar ride literally a few minutes earlier, so I took some photos of the nearby trees and it was still doing it?

I've got home and did a test in the kitchen (also LED lights) and it's fine again?!!?


View attachment 333790

View attachment 333791
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A quick google found this.

www.dpreview.com

Sony a9 banding issue: fact or fiction?

Recently Jared Polin of Fro Knows Photo reported some rather visible banding with the Sony a9 in 2% of images shot at a soccer match. We dig into the issue and its cause, and just how relevant it may be to your real-world shooting.
www.dpreview.com www.dpreview.com

also found this which is based on the Nikon DF:

photographylife.com

How to Deal with Light Frequency Issue

photographylife.com photographylife.com

im struggling to see banding like the Sony A9 article in the images you’re posted due to there small size. there are black bands running across the photos like in the Nikon DF article. What shutter speed where you using?

I suspect at the fairground there are multiple light sources illuminating your photos and causing the actual lighting to change. The amount of lighting at fairgrounds is likely to change quite rapidly when rides are running or stopped. each individual led light will likely be at a different frequency in operation ie turning on and off at different points per second so it’s quite easy for the lighting to change quite rapidly.

It seems you don’t necessarily need to be pointing directly that the lights. If the lights are the main light source, like your nearby trees photos, the issue could still be captured by the camera.
 
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gman said:
It's the A9, which I thought didn't have this issue? It seemed strange that there was inconsistency.
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The difference could be at home you have one(?) LED light source whereas at the fairground you have multiple light sources. The quality of the LED drives is likely better at home so the LEDs aren’t flashing on and off multiple times per second. The LEDs at the fairground are likely being driven to flash or dim constantly when each ride is running again affecting when they are actually emitting light.
 
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So because I need a camera for more video, I think I'm going to buy an A1 now. And then an A7 IV when that comes out.

Need two cameras for stills, but don't need two for video.
 
KitsuneAndy said:
So because I need a camera for more video, I think I'm going to buy an A1 now. And then an A7 IV when that comes out.

Need two cameras for stills, but don't need two for video.
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I have the A1 and A7C. If you don't need the dual card slots etc on both cameras A7C makes for an excellent second camera.
you have a lighter option when you need it.
And A1 is great for video as it is.
 
I dropped Mrs WW off at a party in a rather nice venue yesterday and there were a couple of photographers using Canon DSLR's, taking pictures of arriving guests and couples the foyer. I'm not sure about the camera model but those ones with the built in grips. I hadn't seen any of these for a long time and it just struck me how (to me...) big they looked. One had a white Canon zoom maybe a 70-200 and the other had a big fat Sigma prime, maybe something in excess of 100mm. I wondered how they were managing as they must have been struggling to get full body shots in the foyer but hey-ho. Oh and they weren't using flash. One of them had a hand held light panel thing maybe larger than a mobile phone which he held up at arms length.
 
Banding under flickering lighting can be inconsistent if your shutter speed varies with multiples of mains frequency reportedly being OK. I've never tried matching shutter speed to mains, IMO it's best just to avoid the electronic shutter if it could be an issue.
 
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