The book and zine making thread

KIPAX said:
Cheers. I know a bit more now and a bit more confident going forward... thnaks:)
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Good luck with your project. I am sure I am not alone in being excited to hear more about it as it progresses.

I keep seeing signs for Accrington now that I have moved up to Rossendale and it always makes me think of this advert. :D

 
Ed Sutton said:
set up a Kickstarter
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This ^

With some heavy local promotion, Fan Pages, Club Website, Facebook, IG, Twitter, etc you should be able to drum up some interest - with some enticing print rewards for early backers and perhaps a foreword written by someone notable in the club (and possibly signed limited edition) - should help to cover costs - and gear it up to be released in the Autumn - run-up to Christmas - would make an ideal present for many potential purchasers!
 
It's the sort of thing that might attract a publisher's interest, so you may not need to do all the work yourself. Look around for a couple of local publishers and approach them with your idea. After all, you / THEY will have a pool of committed football fans to market the book to.

It is often said that in photography the idea is the most valuable thing.
 
I have just been on a 3rd photobook course and could post the list of printers. Some will give a quote instantly. Most offer paper samples. One only does paperbacks but getting a version don iin paperback before you commit to the cost of print would potentially be a very valuable step. There's also an excellent book which I am reading at the moment to enable both slef-publishers and those with a publisher and editor on board to make the best design decisions as you go along. I can post that too if there is any interest.
 
Chipper said:
I have just been on a 3rd photobook course and could post the list of printers. Some will give a quote instantly. Most offer paper samples. One only does paperbacks but getting a version don iin paperback before you commit to the cost of print would potentially be a very valuable step. There's also an excellent book which I am reading at the moment to enable both slef-publishers and those with a publisher and editor on board to make the best design decisions as you go along. I can post that too if there is any interest.
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Post away. (y)
 
Hi. The book is Understanding Photobooks by Jorg Colberg. He is very much on the side of a book being a team effort and collaboration being vital but the knowledge and experience is vry helpful.

Chapters:
1. Introduction: What is a Photobook?
2. The Photobook: Publishing and the Marketplace
3. From Pictures to Book: General Considerations
4. " " " " : Editing and Sequencing
5. : Photobook Design
6. : Production
7. How to Make a Phootobook: in 17 Rules

there are 5 case studies between chapters.


Book printers: this is what we were told when the question about who to use came up.

Digital Printing uk - soft cover only. Sent a softcover showing examples of all their papers. No variations on sizes. Perfect bound books.

Mixam - Printed on HP Indigo 7600digital templates

In Print - No online quote. very good quality.

Bookprinting uk - Printed proof option. Reorder is cheaper. We ran an example through the website. Ordering one or two and reordering later a larger is about the same as reordering a bunch at the same time.

Blurb - expensive and inflexible [used through Lightroom] bearing in mind that we were working on creating our own PDFs via Affinity Publisher.
 
Chipper said:
Blurb - expensive and inflexible [used through Lightroom] bearing in mind that we were working on creating our own PDFs via Affinity Publisher.
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I've done pdf to book with Blurb - my preferred method - total freedom within their range of stock sizes, so I don't understand this comment.
 
droj said:
I've done pdf to book with Blurb - my preferred method - total freedom within their range of stock sizes, so I don't understand this comment.
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I think it applies to using Blurb directly through Lightroom. Using Blurb's own software there is more flexibility IIRC
 
Ed Sutton said:
Using Blurb's own software there is more flexibility IIRC
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Significantly. And it's much more user-friendly when you want layout flexibility. The Lightroom implementation (for me) feels like an add-on (a bit like the Map module). It's great for when I do my annual "contact sheet" book, as every page is exactly the same. But for something a bit more complex (when I made a book of my 52 for example) I use BookWright or whatever it's called. I do wish they would do something with the book module because being able to work from within Lightroom means you can work straight out of a collection and don't need to mess about exporting your collated images to a single place. You can also edit images to get a consistent look on-the-fly. However I suspect Blurb paid their money to Adobe for the implementation and that's the end of the development on it.

I may try submitting a pdf made in Publisher to them at some point as they do accept fully formed pdfs
 
Ed Sutton said:
Using Blurb's own software there is more flexibility IIRC
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I use a fully-featured universal page layout app. Page layout is fun when you're completely in control. And soft-proofed cmyk images, but it's possible that you can send srgb ... All the layout parameters are freely available from Blurb to use in setup. Affinity would do the job. And for anyone wealthy enough to have InDesign they supply templates ...
 
droj said:
I've done pdf to book with Blurb - my preferred method - total freedom within their range of stock sizes, so I don't understand this comment.
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I meant in comparison with making a template in Affinity Publisher.
 
droj said:
... which you can do and have Blurb print the results. Let's make a level playing field ...
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Hold on...you make it sound like I have an agenda here. Well, Yes I did - to be helpful and if you. know something else fair enough but don't make out that I am trying to do anything other than share my experience which was from Lightroom. I only just found this thread and I think I might be done here.
 
Chipper said:
Hold on...you make it sound like I have an agenda here. Well, Yes I did - to be helpful and if you. know something else fair enough but don't make out that I am trying to do anything other than share my experience which was from Lightroom. I only just found this thread and I think I might be done here.
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We're a friendly bunch here, no need to go. I think droj is just in a funny mood today (and being unduly picky).

FWIW the main benefit of Blurb, to my mind, is that it offers an all-in-one solution which is great for people starting out making their own books. I actually like the limitations it's own software imposes. If I was using DTP software to lay out a book I'd not be sending the PDF to Blurb. Just my two bob's worth. :)
 
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We need a Harry Enfield 'Calm down' emoji. :D I challenge anyone who watched Enfield to see that text and not say it in their mind in a Scouse accent.

Anyway, I appreciate what you shared Chipper and I think the purpose of your post got lost somewhere along the line. I got hoodwinked/shamed/blackmailed/cajoled/threatened and encouraged into joining the eZine for 2022 group so anything you can share of your experiences are welcome.

Droj, gimme something I can work with ;)
 
Hey! I felt that Blurb had been maligned. Of course their toytown layout app is rubbish, within or without Lightroom. It's free, dammit, so what would you expect? And Lightroom's gut purpose is processing images, not making books or any other add-on gimmicks that Adobe think up as sidelines.

I felt that I needed to speak up for Blurb because as a print & bind service I've been pleased with their results (so far). And you can reap the reward of having done the preparation legwork for their product, just as you might for other providers.

Is Mixam cheaper for a similar size & binding? Dunno. The prep work & product, though, can have full equivalence with Blurb as far as I can see.

I have a reservation about the prevalent glued binding. If done at its best (as I've seen it), the glueline is far thicker than a cheap paperback, and looks strong - but I haven't found any longevity tests, & haven't had my books long enough to know.

The backstory is that I have a glut of stuff that could feed into photobooks but I'm terrible at making my mind up about anything - too many choices, maybe, and a first world problem as people say. But I'm looking (slowly & awkwardly) at options ...

I might seem a bit abrasive sometimes (it's a common form of cheerfulness in the grim north that I'm from) - but grumpy, never!

Come on, guys, we can get to Mars! But maybe not in the same rocket???
 
droj said:
Hey! I felt that Blurb had been maligned. Of course their toytown layout app is rubbish, within or without Lightroom.
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I was sticking up for Blurb too because I don't think their software is rubbish. It's intuitive for beginner designers and flexible once you move away from the templates. For simple photobook purposes it's all you need. :)
 
superpippo said:
Sorry if this sounds dumb, and may have been covered already (if so, apologies).
Just taking first stepd in Affinity Publisher.
When i open a new document, in making a photo zine, do I choose the 'Photo' option from the top line or 'Print' or does it not matter?
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Print gives you print paper sizes, photo gives you photo aspect ratios. So best to select print and pick the format you want to the zine to be.
 
droj said:
Hey! I felt that Blurb had been maligned. Of course their toytown layout app is rubbish, within or without Lightroom. It's free, dammit, so what would you expect? And Lightroom's gut purpose is processing images, not making books or any other add-on gimmicks that Adobe think up as sidelines.

I felt that I needed to speak up for Blurb because as a print & bind service I've been pleased with their results (so far). And you can reap the reward of having done the preparation legwork for their product, just as you might for other providers.

Is Mixam cheaper for a similar size & binding? Dunno. The prep work & product, though, can have full equivalence with Blurb as far as I can see.

I have a reservation about the prevalent glued binding. If done at its best (as I've seen it), the glueline is far thicker than a cheap paperback, and looks strong - but I haven't found any longevity tests, & haven't had my books long enough to know.

The backstory is that I have a glut of stuff that could feed into photobooks but I'm terrible at making my mind up about anything - too many choices, maybe, and a first world problem as people say. But I'm looking (slowly & awkwardly) at options ...

I might seem a bit abrasive sometimes (it's a common form of cheerfulness in the grim north that I'm from) - but grumpy, never!

Come on, guys, we can get to Mars! But maybe not in the same rocket???
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Well, I suppose I expected a 'by the way' comment rather than the insinuation that is was deliberately misleading or misinforming.
 
There's always the one-off (or extremely short run) photobook to consider.

ENCLOSURE (2022) is a collaborative project with the artist (and my partner) Shona Grant.

Between March 2020 and November 2021, I made photographs of the 30 or so mature trees that surround home in rural North East Aberdeenshire. We decided that a Japanese style book would suit the photographs and so we chose to make a stab bound book using hemp-leaf binding (asa-no-ha toji) with a traditional wraparound case known as maru chitsu. This is the first time that Shona’s made a book for another photographer and the first time that she’s made a Japanese stab bound book.

Details:
  • Handmade Japanese stab bound book with handmade wraparound case
  • The book measures 240mm w x 250mm h and has two hard backs covered in hand painted in black acrylic on jaconette calico
  • It is bound in ribbon using a hemp-leaf pattern with brass eyelet detail
  • The first and final pages are hand painted in a mix of crimson and burnt sienna acrylics on jaconette calico
  • There are 16 pages of photographs printed by me on Awagami 170gsm bamboo paper (this paper has been such a bind!)
  • The pages measure 188mm w x 243mm h and the images measure 102mm w x 127mm h
  • The book also features a three sheet gate fold section
  • Each photographic print has a red hand painted jaconette calico sheet attached which was then bound to into the spine of the book
  • The hard backed wraparound cover measures 255mm w x 257mm h and is covered in hand painted red jaconette calico with black book cloth lining. It features the traditional Japanese clasp made from handmade cut bone with handmade black book cloth attachments
  • When open, the case measures 700mm w x 257mm
https://www.shonagrantsart.com/test-books (all heavy lifting by Shona!)
Video (please choose 720 or 1080 via the little cog wheel):
View: https://vimeo.com/661731234
 

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milou said:
There's always the one-off (or extremely short run) photobook to consider.

ENCLOSURE (2022) is a collaborative project with the artist (and my partner) Shona Grant.

Between March 2020 and November 2021, I made photographs of the 30 or so mature trees that surround home in rural North East Aberdeenshire. We decided that a Japanese style book would suit the photographs and so we chose to make a stab bound book using hemp-leaf binding (asa-no-ha toji) with a traditional wraparound case known as maru chitsu. This is the first time that Shona’s made a book for another photographer and the first time that she’s made a Japanese stab bound book.

Details:
  • Handmade Japanese stab bound book with handmade wraparound case
  • The book measures 240mm w x 250mm h and has two hard backs covered in hand painted in black acrylic on jaconette calico
  • It is bound in ribbon using a hemp-leaf pattern with brass eyelet detail
  • The first and final pages are hand painted in a mix of crimson and burnt sienna acrylics on jaconette calico
  • There are 16 pages of photographs printed by me on Awagami 170gsm bamboo paper (this paper has been such a bind!)
  • The pages measure 188mm w x 243mm h and the images measure 102mm w x 127mm h
  • The book also features a three sheet gate fold section
  • Each photographic print has a red hand painted jaconette calico sheet attached which was then bound to into the spine of the book
  • The hard backed wraparound cover measures 255mm w x 257mm h and is covered in hand painted red jaconette calico with black book cloth lining. It features the traditional Japanese clasp made from handmade cut bone with handmade black book cloth attachments
  • When open, the case measures 700mm w x 257mm
https://www.shonagrantsart.com/artistsphoto-books (all heavy lifting by Shona!)
Video (please choose 720 or 1080 via the little cog wheel):
View: https://vimeo.com/661731234
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That is just lovely - well done!
 
Some amazing work on the website too.

I'd love to have something like this made. Sadly my photography just isn't good enough!
 
Looks like it's for this reason: View: https://BANNED/mixamprint/status/1499016014939496454?s=20&t=VkdkkvwcOorw56UuUjVJag

View: https://BANNED/mixamprint/status/1196406294086914049?lang=en-GB
 
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Latest book: https://www.milouvision.com/march-days-book/ All photographs in the book were taken on one day in March 2022 and are in the sequence of crests, abstracts, ripples, cascade and curves. I went local for printing i.e. about 11 miles up the road in sunny Turriff. All the gory details at: https://biblioscapes.com/library/march-days

If you're considering such a project, here are the costs:
  1. Book £5.56, three postcards (as thanks) £0.79 = £6.65.
  2. Postage & packing: I'm using a very sturdy Colompac envelope: £0.93 with liner £0.04. Book wraps were too large (in terms of thickness). The supplier suggested significant savings if a pallet was bought - 3,600 envelopes... I used to use these envelopes for A4 prints and they were classed as a large letter but as the Post Office has changed the dimensions, they now have to be a 'small parcel' at £3.35 second class = £4.32
  3. PayPal fee: £0.74
Total costs: £11.71
 

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Just exploring maybe making a zine now, I have a lot of canal photos of an area I will probably not return to & it seems to be a sensible theme to follow. I'd be interested in feedback on the followig design choices:

Size US Letter (slightly wider than A4, more space for text)
Landscape
Perfect binding
200g silk paper
32 sides
300g glossy covers

Is this likely to be awkward to get to lay flat? Both Mixam & DOXdirect look interesting. I'm mildly tempted to just go for a book, but if I want to make copies available to others then the price becomes fairly high.
 
ancient_mariner said:
Is this likely to be awkward to get to lay flat?
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IME, yes, perfect binding doesn't like being opened out flat. Also 32 sides is pushing it a bit for that binding, it works better with more pages. IMO.
 
ancient_mariner said:
Thanks Dave - staple/sewn is better at this size?
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If you want to be able to open them out then stapled is the better option. When having them perfect bound I like to leave a wider margin along the gutter as the pages don't open as flat and the extra space presents them better.
 
A quick question - if I order a (say) 24 page zine, is that 48 *sides* that can receive a print plus any cover pages?
 
One more question - I've uploaded to Mixam in ODT format and it's taking forever AFTER the upload is complete to populate the positions in the document (36 positions, upload as about 175MB). Is this normal?
 
Gave up in the end & uploaded as a .pdf, but concerned the file size is about 1/10th what it should be (17MB instead od 170MB for 28 A4 images.

mixam.co.uk

Magazines

Size: A4, 32 pages, 0
mixam.co.uk mixam.co.uk
 
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ancient_mariner said:
Gave up in the end & uploaded as a .pdf, but concerned the file size is about 1/10th what it should be (17MB instead od 170MB for 28 A4 images.

mixam.co.uk

Magazines

Size: A4, 32 pages, 0
mixam.co.uk mixam.co.uk
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If you mean the PDF from Mixam, I've checked one of my zines which is full colour and the Mixam PDF for 66 pages and file size is 43mb.
 
Can't help with the file size question, but that looks like a nice Zine Toni.
 
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