The Capture vs The Processing

You make good points. Too good, you're killing all my long post I typed! :LOL:
Think I might bail out of this thread. Interesting to read all the different views on the subject of processing be it digital or film.

No need to bail out :)
 
No need to bail out :)

I still do stand by what I said as far as film being a 1 step process in the way I intended it. Maybe I should've added for the masses? Maybe you could say it depends if you look at it in an analogue sense of yesteryear or a digital sense of today? I know back in the film days very few people processed colour themselves. Those who did would've mostly just printed their prints straight or with very simple changes. You would've needed some decent funds to experiment to get results anywhere near what people can get today on a computer. I was a photography hobbyist for a long time during the film era and never had any of my colour work adjusted. I think you would struggle to pull more than a handful of people from this forum who could show manipulated work coming from a colour darkroom. I do agree with your points on black and white and about this entire topic being very subjective. I think my original post needed to be worded much more carefully.
 
Totally agree re colour film, but then that isnt REAL Photography at all is it? :)
 
Totally agree re colour film, but then that isn't REAL Photography at all is it? :)

Is it real black and white if you shoot colour with your digital camera and change the file to black and white later? I don't know. Just asking because there probably won't be a right answer to that one either! :LOL:

Question. Don't you spell colour as colour? Why does spellcheck keep fussing over it when it has a U? You don't use color over in the UK same as the US do you???
 
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This is why I suggest film as a one step process because for most people it was.

For the majority, film and digital are one step processes.

Digital processing might be easier and more accessible than darkroom manipulating ever was and more people will post process now than used to use a darkroom, but most people don't do either.


Steve.
 
Analog photography is a multistep proces
Expose
Develop
Enlarge
Develop
.
Neither color nor B&W negs looks anything like the subject
:D
 
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Digital photography is a 2 step process. (Capture and Process)
Film photography is a 1 step process. (Capture. If you did darkroom work, it becomes one and a bit. Darkroom is incomparable to what you can do with digital processing)

With both mediums you look at a scene and determine what the end result will be.
Difference between the two mediums is with film you only have capture as the tool. Digital you have capture and process.
Digital you can evaluate what camera needs to do and what computer needs to do. A good photographer will do this before pressing the shutter.
Film you only have the camera to work with. You are more limited. A scene that may work with digital simply won't work with film. You may need to come up with an alternative shot that can be handled by the camera alone.
Utter bunkum. Darkroom potential is tremendous. I've just been looking at a public display of prints that were done in a wet darkroom, and they could not have been bettered by digital processes. Counting darkroom work as a 'bit' (of a stage in achieving an end result) is a pretty big insult to those who practice it - at least it would be if you knew what you were talking about.
 
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Utter bunkum. Darkroom potential is tremendous. I've just been looking at a public display of prints that were done in a wet darkroom, and they could not have been bettered by digital processes. Counting darkroom work as a 'bit' (of a stage in achieving an end result) is a pretty big insult to those who practice it - at least it would be if you knew what you were talking about.

I don't know if you read any of my other posts or just quoted my first one and then came in firing.
I mentioned I could've worded my first post better. I'm new here and see now things will be taken very literally.
My post was generalized, taking a loose modern perspective on the topic.
If you read my other posts you will see my thoughts.
If you want to be literal, well, no, wet darkrooms simply cannot in any way compete with digital. No way!
We can build an image pixel by pixel using digital! Heck, we don't even need a camera! Full control! :clap:
 
Heck, we don't even need a camera!
Then it isn't photography is it? Just saying ...

Seriously dude, you need to chill a bit and think about what you write - folks can only read the written word as it is, it carries no inflection nor is there any tone to help decide how things are meant. As for film being a 1 step process ... well I think we have addressed that now :)
 
I mentioned I could've worded my first post better. I'm new here and see now things will be taken very literally.

Oh yes. :LOL:
 
We can build an image pixel by pixel using digital! Heck, we don't even need a camera! Full control! :clap:
You won't have heard of Man Ray, then. He frequently did not bother with a camera.
 
I’ve a half written post running round my head about ‘visual literacy’ driven by the number of images I see on the internet that have been processed to the point they have lost all credibility.

Give me a heads up when you write it... I'm looking forward to reading it already!
 
Is it real black and white if you shoot colour with your digital camera and change the file to black and white later? I don't know. Just asking because there probably won't be a right answer to that one either! :LOL:

Question. Don't you spell colour as colour? Why does spellcheck keep fussing over it when it has a U? You don't use color over in the UK same as the US do you???
B&W - depends on the tonal range I guess, if it has a full range I would call it B&W regardless of the medium it was shot on and tbh I haven't compared so could be talking rubbish.
Colour - with a U, spellchecker tends to have a US dictionary, so that may be why it's complaining.

Are you in Oz or over here, "foreigners" tend to rattle the natives a little with their use of English till they get the hang of it :)
Settle in and enjoy, the first 6 months are the worst.

Matt
 
This is the reason I was going to bail on this thread, could see what was likely coming. :LOL:
I do apologize for my last post, didn't intend to go over the top. I'm also from Australia and my last post was around 4am after a long day and after being told I don't know what I'm talking about.
My point is, my comments were based on the more than 99% of color film camera users of the film days. What came from their cameras was typically the final end result. There was no manipulation of their negative, a straight print was made. I was an avid photographer in the film days as well. I was intending to process my own color film. I went as far as purchasing a Durst M670 color enlarger and all the other accessories for a darkroom. I was intending to add the final piece, Jobo processing tanks but ended up just using what I had already purchased for black and white. Things changed to digital and the darkroom never progressed any further. Even back then, the intention was really just to straight process. I didn't see I could afford to spend large amounts of money on anything else.
My opening post was based on these thoughts. Film for most was literally a one step process. What they did in the camera is what they received on the final print. This is where my comment comes from. With digital the manipulation from what comes out of the camera is accessible to almost every single photographer or happy snapper in the world right down to the iPhone user. Even an iPhone has basic editing tools built in, you don't even need a separate app.
I do hope this post finally clears things up from the perspective I intended from the outset?
 
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You're fine, cobber, it's just that you came in with all corks bobbing ...

Re-engage, and enjoy, if you're up to it. Some of us are easy, and some of us ain't. It's an adventure! You got a pet kangaroo?
 
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You're fine, cobber, it's just that you came in with all corks bobbing ...

Re-engage, and enjoy, if you're up to it. Some of us are easy, and some of us ain't. It's an adventure! You got a pet kangaroo?

Thanks, no hard feelings. I'm as loose as a goose, quite carefree in my photography thoughts and processes. I'll tighten it up a little. haha
No pet kangaroo, just a plain old kitty and some chooks!
 
Is it real black and white if you shoot colour with your digital camera and change the file to black and white later? I don't know. Just asking because there probably won't be a right answer to that one seither! :LOL:

Does it become more or less real black and white if I switch my camera to B&W mode and see the B&W image in my EVF? Is having to imagine the B&W in your head an integral part of the real B&W experience? Do I have to put colour filters on the camera lens at the time of shooting, like the old days, or it ok to shoot RAW and do the colour filtration in post processing afterwards?

The more I think about these philosophical questions the more convinced I become that using film today is a cheap attempt to avoid the real modern digital photography experience.
 
I've read through most of this thread and it's been an interesting discussion. Many points I agree with.
I have many opinions on this subject but I'll just try and keep my views short, sweet and easy to read.

Digital photography is a 2 step process. (Capture and Process)
Film photography is a 1 step process. (Capture. If you did darkroom work, it becomes one and a bit. Darkroom is incomparable to what you can do with digital processing)

With both mediums you look at a scene and determine what the end result will be.
Difference between the two mediums is with film you only have capture as the tool. Digital you have capture and process.
Digital you can evaluate what camera needs to do and what computer needs to do. A good photographer will do this before pressing the shutter.
Film you only have the camera to work with. You are more limited. A scene that may work with digital simply won't work with film. You may need to come up with an alternative shot that can be handled by the camera alone.

With digital we can do anything. You can process the living daylights out of a pic or you can do nothing but a few minor basic adjustments.
What you do depends on your own personal preference or requirement.
You may wish to keep things traditional and keep your photography as a true representation of "the capture of light."
On the other hand, you may wish to use every tool available to a digital photographer to create what you consider the best image that can possibly be created.
Neither is right or wrong, good or bad. It's a preference or a requirement depending on your situation.

Here is the key:

Where the problems arise is usually when people don't pick their side. They "sit on the fence" or don't have the right skills and only half do things.
A hugely processed image can still look great if it's done correctly. If it's a good representation/reflection of the subject and if it's intent is clear, it's a success.
The issue becomes when the processing is half done and/or badly done. These images fail because they are no longer a good reflection/representation of the subject and the intent of the image may not be clear.

I like to shoot both digital and film because I like both sides. Whichever medium I'm using, I make certain for that period my mind fully understands the side I am on.
Film photography is challenging and highly rewarding as it's limitations are great.
Digital gives greater scope for the end result and I use it to it's full benefits. It can be equally rewarding.

As long as you pick a clear side with processing, you can be both a digital photographer or a film photographer with a digital camera.
I use a film camera for my film representation for no other reason than to keep the traditional side as fully traditional as possible.
I began photography this way, it's nice to revisit the past, it's a sentimental thing, I enjoy it this way.

This is actually quite a good post, ignoring the fact that for certain photographers the darkroom had massive potential.

(Awaiting people saying I'm too young to remember and this is a vast generalisation!)

For the vast majority of enthusiasts film was a single stage process. With the photographer making the capture then getting a lab to develop.

For the vast majority of enthusiasts digital is a dual stage process. With the photographer making the capture, then uploading to a computer to catalog and making tweaks themselves. Albeit sometimes limited ones, but they are involved none the less.

Obviously in the film days we had people dodging, burning and cross processing their own negatives. In the digital age we have people blending complicated astro images made up of 100's of files on their own computers. These guys are the exception perhaps. What I would say for sure, is in the digital age the advanced photographer rarely outsources the processing. In the film age I assume a greater number of advanced photographers still outsourced the developing, even though a lot would do it themselves?

What makes the argument interesting is people who don't know how to process a digital image get on their high horse and argue that 'they want the picture to be as close to reality as possible' so it needs to be SOOC. Or, 'if a picture requires a lot of processing then it should go in the bin'. The other one is 'getting it right in camera'.

Looking at those statements in order, the first one is utter nonsense. An auto white balance JPEG will only come out looking as pleasing as a Canon/Nikon/Fuji/Sony etc engineer wants it to look. Arguably that is sometimes a lot better than the sort of people who wear welding goggles to process their images achieve anyway. I digress, the file straight out of camera is not purer or closer to reality anyway, it does not see the scene the way our eyes do, and will likely have other issues with colour etc. The reality thing then blends into the art thing and that has already been discussed!

The second statement is normally said by people who lack the skills to achieve in processing what others can. I totally agree we should be trying to start off with the highest quality image possible, and know when we are wasting our time trying to make something out of nothing. But really, a lot of processing, done in a controlled way working towards a clearly determined result can immensely improve a RAW negative.

Regarding 'getting it right in camera', these people assume the correct exposure is the one that looks right on the back of their far too bright LCD screens and have never seen a histogram. They are also missing out on the massive potential of post processing to unleash their creative skills and solve problems.

I firmly believe that digital photography is exactly a 50/50 split between everything that happens up until the point of capture and then everything from that point forward. But the whole process is integrated, the greater you understand the controls of the camera and the creative potential of different settings, the better photographs you can make and problems (difficult capture conditions) you can overcome. But by exactly the same token the greater you understand what can be achieved in post processing you will uncover even more ways to use your camera in the field that leads to more creativity and problem solving capabilities.

Absorb yourself in both parts of the hobby and you are likely to enjoy it more. It is not just about the advantage of learning more about using the camera to improve your capture skills and learning more about software to improve your processing skills. It is more than that, when you understand what can be done in processing, you will change the way you shoot. And for me that has allowed me to get usable shots more often. They won't always be the best shots, because the best shots are about light, atmosphere, emotion and an underlying connection with the subject. But having the skills encourages me to use my camera more and that has to be a good thing, as it's a hobby I enjoy. Both parts of it, but for people who are happy just shooting JPEGS and spending more time outside, great keep doing it. For others who love pixel editing on a computer that is also their time to spend as they enjoy. But for guys willing to learn I would encourage anyone to work on the 50% of digital photography they are weaker at.

Not the best picture in the world by any means, but here is a shot of Kilchurn castle that has been focussed stacked, had the verticals corrected and missing sections warped back in again, exposure blended and edited selectively for colour and contrast. It was taken during the blue hour when other photographers had left because it was too dark, and simply exposed to protect the highlights in the sky. I knew there was a chilly, moody image in that scene, and because it was so tranquil and I was enjoying myself I wanted to keep shooting. I also got to lose myself listening to music on my computer this morning not thinking about work or anything else whilst I edited it.

This shot is not great, but the techniques in taking it and editing it are surely good practice for when the scene in front of me (any my eyes are open to it!) is right.

SOOC LR vertical correction, without auto crop
Kilchurn not edited by Craig Hollis, on Flickr

PS processed image
Kilchurn Vertical Ice Blue Hour by Craig Hollis, on Flickr

If you got this far, thanks for reading!
 
Does it become more or less real black and white if I switch my camera to B&W mode and see the B&W image in my EVF? Is having to imagine the B&W in your head an integral part of the real B&W experience? Do I have to put colour filters on the camera lens at the time of shooting, like the old days, or it ok to shoot RAW and do the colour filtration in post processing afterwards?

The more I think about these philosophical questions the more convinced I become that using film today is a cheap attempt to avoid the real modern digital photography experience.

Do you shoot raw or Jpeg though? Shooting raw it doesn't matter what mode you put the camera in...

I don't think film can be called a cheap attempt to avoid digital. One of the original reasons I went digital was the cost of film and processing
 
Does it become more or less real black and white if I switch my camera to B&W mode and see the B&W image in my EVF? Is having to imagine the B&W in your head an integral part of the real B&W experience? Do I have to put colour filters on the camera lens at the time of shooting, like the old days, or it ok to shoot RAW and do the colour filtration in post processing afterwards?

The more I think about these philosophical questions the more convinced I become that using film today is a cheap attempt to avoid the real modern digital photography experience.

Kind of. I think that's true of a lot about photography - the process of image making, the techniques of using good craft and skill, is more important than the result. It's often said that it's the final picture that matters, but for a lot of us, that isn't always true. Equipment is another one - many folks just enjoy using good gear and the whole GAS thing, regardless of the results. (Check out the Leica owners thread, which is reassuringly filled with some of the most mediocre images - and some good ones too ;))

'You need a tripod for landscapes.' Why? Sometimes you do, just as a tripod is necessary for a lot of subjects when conditions dictate, but not always. 'It slows you down, makes you consider the composition.' Yes, it does. In other words, it enhances the experience, creates more of an 'event' and is more enjoyable. Using filters is another one, especially a cumbersome system of slot-in grads, when you can often get a better result a lot more easily and cheaply in post-processing. I can relate to that one - the whole palava is enjoyable and it's great to see a good result pop up on the LCD there and then.
 
the process of image making, the techniques of using good craft and skill, is more important than the result.
I wouldn't put it like that Richard. The end image must be the whole point in that it's the shareable part - the 'message'. That's however enjoyable or satisfying the processes involved might be to their employer.

As for those who choose to own thousands of pounds' worth of gear, yet can't seem to take even a competent snapshot, I find their delusion a mystery - they seem to exist in fantasy land.
 
Interesting collection of comments since my last visit.

@Fleury I was by no means advanced as a worker in the darkroom, but I was certainly happy to correct verticals, dodge & burn, use filters under the enlarger to alter images and sometimes even combine multiple images. At the time (80's) there were frequent articles in magazines about how to replace skies, masking to use multiple images and retouching negatives, plus alternative processing. I wouldn't go back to film without good reason, but there was a lot being done that digital has made much easier.
 
I remember a story in national geographic where this acclaimed photographer "fried" his negatives - the results were absolute stunning in terms of clarity and subject isolation. Everyone (proficient) has a "certain way" of developing negatives even to the point where they may stock up on film to ensure they can continue to develop in the way that they have erm.... developed to ensure they get the results that they want.

To me that is no different from processing in Lightroom/Photoshop - if someone criticised this photographer that "he was cheating!!" I'm fairly sure the response would be "get over yourself".

No difference between either method. People need to get over it and stop bleating that it is cheating or not "realistic".
 
Does it become more or less real black and white if I switch my camera to B&W mode and see the B&W image in my EVF? Is having to imagine the B&W in your head an integral part of the real B&W experience? Do I have to put colour filters on the camera lens at the time of shooting, like the old days, or it ok to shoot RAW and do the colour filtration in post processing afterwards?

The more I think about these philosophical questions the more convinced I become that using film today is a cheap attempt to avoid the real modern digital photography experience.
To achieve good mono pictures, you need to see the tones rather than the colours. It is not so much a case of imagining the mono picture but seeing differently from seeing a colour image. That informs both exposure and composition.

There are options with mono film you cannot have with digital. I can choose to use orthochromatic film which does not record red and green light or I can go the other way and choose a film with some infrared sensitivity or another film with significant infrared sensitivity. A digital camera records what it records. If you have it adapted for infrared, all shots will record infrared and to the same extent.
 
'You need a tripod for landscapes.' Why? Sometimes you do, just as a tripod is necessary for a lot of subjects when conditions dictate, but not always. 'It slows you down, makes you consider the composition.' Yes, it does. In other words, it enhances the experience, creates more of an 'event' and is more enjoyable.

Since the thread has moved away from you-know-what, I'd like to comment on this extract.

For me, a tripod gives a better result for two reasons (and for the moment we'll assume that I'm going to use the sort of camera that most here use - one used at eye level)

1. I'm far too impatient to take the time to really consider the finer points of camera position if I can just put the camera to my eye and snap away. Using a camera at eye level encourages me to use it as an extention of my eyes, and when I look at something I generally don't walk around it, or move towards and away from it to appreciate it. So, with an eye level camera, for me, the finer points of composition are ignored.

2. A few years ago in the course of doing something else, I became aware that one big difference between an OM1/2/4 and an E3 camera was in ease of use of the viewfinder. Specifically, moving my eye position at the viewfinder didn't reveal anything new in the film cameras, but with the E3 I found that parts of the screen weren't visible without such moving. So if I want to check the edges and corners, I need to hold the camera rigidly fixed in one position while I moved my head around the viewfinder. I'm not physically up to doing that, and need a tripod to do it for me.

Yes, a tripod slows me down and makes me consider the composition. But it's a pain to carry (sometimes literally). I don't find that this enhances my experience, however much it may do for improving my strength.

If you have the patience I lack, or use a camera that lets you see the whole screen from one eye position (or don't care about the extreme edges anyway), then fine.

In fairness, I don't use an E3, and my preferred cameras are medium and large format film cameras, and I use those because I can see a difference in the prints from those created digitally.
 
I enjoy the actual capture of the image the most and always try to get it right ‘in camera’ but some post processing is essential.

Went through a steep learning curve myself for post and after settling on my workflow and getting the over processing out of my system, I’m more comfortable now with my post process and find it very satisfying when it adds a little extra to my images
 
Do you shoot raw or Jpeg though? Shooting raw it doesn't matter what mode you put the camera in...

If your camera has a live view LCD, then switching to B&W, even if only shooting RAW, changes the display to B&W. If your camera has an EVF as well, then the EVF shows the B&W image. If in addition your camera allows switching between the effects of any additional settings, such as exposure, white balance, etc., these will be shown, or you can switch these off, so that the camera will simply make a viewable conversion, even if your exposure settings would result in nothing to see until the flash goes off.
 
If your camera has a live view LCD, then switching to B&W, even if only shooting RAW, changes the display to B&W. If your camera has an EVF as well, then the EVF shows the B&W image. If in addition your camera allows switching between the effects of any additional settings, such as exposure, white balance, etc., these will be shown, or you can switch these off, so that the camera will simply make a viewable conversion, even if your exposure settings would result in nothing to see until the flash goes off.

But if you shoot in raw, none of those settings would be applied, it applies them to a jpeg only.
 
But if you shoot in raw, none of those settings would be applied, it applies them to a jpeg only.
but you can see them as you compose the shot so you have a good idea as to what you will end up with.
 
For the majority, film and digital are one step processes.

Digital processing might be easier and more accessible than darkroom manipulating ever was and more people will post process now than used to use a darkroom, but most people don't do either.

....Personally as a serious amateur, I don't see the point of buying and using expensive D-SLR camera gear and not shooting RAW and then post-processing it (tastefully!) to exploit its potential to achieve a visually satisfying final picture.

In some photographic fields such as professional journalism, shooting JPEG with no post-processing is more practical and is all that is needed.
 
....Personally as a serious amateur, I don't see the point of buying and using expensive D-SLR camera gear and not shooting RAW and then post-processing it (tastefully!) to exploit its potential to achieve a visually satisfying final picture.


Something I find odd is the number of people who must have the latest equipment with the highest resolution possible, but who never print out their images and only view them on a computer screen or upload to websites and social media. If you're doing that, you might as well have a 1 MP camera!


Steve.
 
Something I find odd is the number of people who must have the latest equipment with the highest resolution possible, but who never print out their images and only view them on a computer screen or upload to websites and social media. If you're doing that, you might as well have a 1 MP camera!
But what about all that lovely detail when you zoom in to 100% on your computer screen? That's the real point of having gazillions of megapixels. :D
 
Something I find odd is the number of people who must have the latest equipment with the highest resolution possible, but who never print out their images and only view them on a computer screen or upload to websites and social media. If you're doing that, you might as well have a 1 MP camera!
Steve.
But what about all that lovely detail when you zoom in to 100% on your computer screen? That's the real point of having gazillions of megapixels. :D

....Tut-tut, deary me! :D

I'm not one of those who feels they "must have the latest equipment with the highest resolution possible" - The 50 megapixel Canon bodies are better suited to studio work than wildlife. I never print my images because I much prefer viewing them online and they are much easier to share and enjoy with others when in that medium. I enjoy creating digital slide shows too.

I shoot with both crop-sensor and full-frame D-SLR bodies which do happen to be the current latest versions. Will I update to the next versions? - Depending what their specs are I most likely will upgrade. If I have to explain why, then I doubt you will understand but to give you a clue it's features such as frames per second and speed of focus which matter for wildlife. Also being better able to enlarge distant subjects and maintain image quality is a good enough reason alone to have a practical minimum megapixel capability.

What I find odd is people who don't take advantage of what the latest state of the art has to offer. But.... Each to their own, eh.

:)
 
but you can see them as you compose the shot so you have a good idea as to what you will end up with.

This is true if you just click the B&W convert button on the raw image, but can you be sure thats the same processing the camera settings apply?
I never process my B&W images the way the camera produces them. It doesn't match my preferences or style.
 
Something I find odd is the number of people who must have the latest equipment with the highest resolution possible, but who never print out their images and only view them on a computer screen or upload to websites and social media. If you're doing that, you might as well have a 1 MP camera!
Steve.

Depends on what the final delivery media is I suppose. Latest/better equipment makes it easier to capture the image, better light capability, dynamic range etc. Even if the final image is delivered to a website there's always the opportunity to produce images on a larger media. My camera phone is reasonable, produces good panoramics in good light, but it's easier (for me) to get the image I want with a camera.
 
But if you shoot in raw, none of those settings would be applied, it applies them to a jpeg only.

Depends what you use to edit your RAW. Some editors pick up the camera settings and use them as an initial default processing. The point, however, is that you can see a B&W image while you're composing. Of course it won't be the ultimate settings you end up processing it with, but it's a definite help. For example, it can alert you to a missing contrast you'd like to bring out, so you can change WB or add a colour filter, which may in turn change the best exposure.
 
Some views similar to mine in this thread and some that are not even close but that is to be expected as we all like or dislike different things and also take photos of different things for different reasons and in different ways.

For me I believe their is an art in taking a good photo (one I am still learning) and also an art in processing one and if you combine the two you can produce some very interesting images, much more exciting than straight out of camera. I have sometimes taken other peoples photos and played with them in PP just to see if I can improve them for my our curiosity. My stepmother who I would say has a good eye for photography is useless at PP, she will often ask me to print off a photo for her, which will involve some PP improvement and she is always happy with my efforts and I actually enjoy trying to make her images better, if she doesn't like it I can always just revert back to hers but have yet to do so.

I never used to do much to my own photos just a slight crop, darken, lighten, sharpen and noise reduction in Canon DPP. I have had Elements since 11 came out and Lightroom 5 from when it came out but until last year I rarely used them and did not really know how too and I confess I am still learning. Recently I have been having quite a bit of fun going over old photos I took years ago. I am so glad I shot in RAW soon after switching from full auto in 2011. I have found if I have basically got a good "sharp" photo to start with I can then work/play with it and create something better or at least different from the original.

I have found converting to mono quite difficult but also great fun to get the effect I like. It actually takes quite a lot of steps with trial and error in LR with so many interesting options. Here is an example of a photo I took in May 2015 and it is pretty much as per the RAW file just straightened slightly. It was how I saw it, what I wanted and even what I liked at the time, even though no one else seemed too.

Masters 2015 Druids on Friday practice
by Martin Billard, on Flickr

It was also one of the first photos I tried to convert to mono in LR as we had a mono competition at my camera club, this is version 2 of my first attempt which scored 9/10 and is now printed in A3 on my office wall as one of my favourite photos. So over 2 years to get it to look like this with days of fun learning more extreme PP doing it has payed off in my opinion.

Lola T70
by Martin Billard, on Flickr

The fact that some might dislike the first and or the second really does not bother me but the second has by far been the most popular with friends, family let alone a SPA judge but it took PP to make it.

PP is a great fill in when the weather, light and action are not great and taking photos is not possible. Going over old photos has really opened my eyes to what can be done to improve a photo and also what is needed in a basic photo to be able to manipulate it later. It has also enabled me decorate my office wall with quite a few A3 prints mostly taken years ago but never worthy of being printed before.
 
Gven the on the wonk one in isolation, viewers would have every right to enjoy the photo
But as we're given the original too, I'm personally preferring it because it hasn't been fannied about with, at least that would be my assumption.
That's not to say on the wonk isn't a pretty picture because it is, its saying I personally place other facets of picture production above "pretty".
Nobody else on Earth cares one way or the other, only photography forums, Art academics and students care enough to ask these questions.
Whilst it is accepted by the masses, the pp debate will rumble on till the debate about CG v capture takes over..:)
 
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