It is, however, Sadiq who is pushing ahead with the expansion of it - given the opposition from Conservative councils, and the rather more 'on the fence' comments from the PM, it's clear he could, had he considered this "Boris's mess", delayed the expansion and looked at alternative options for trying to improve air quality in London (or raise additional revenue, depending on your view on the scheme).
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The Cost of Seeing
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The ‘play on words’ defence doesn’t stick does it really.
It goes along with you incorrectly blaming the current mayor for the previous (racist) mayors policy, as he himself has done (knowing that it’s easy to gaslight a certain sector of society).
And forgive me for not having a great deal of sympathy for Londoners. We (the rest of the country) have been encouraging them to not use their cars for decades by subsidising their public transport* from our taxes. As that’s not convinced them, then a policy to charge them to drive through the city centre isn’t exactly unreasonable IMHO.
*making it the only place in the country with cheap reliable public transport, whilst the rest of us have no alternative to drive, even if we really wanted to subsidise our own local transport from our taxes.
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Having had to drive into London for my delivery job for many years in the past, I fail to understand what could possibly tempt anyone to drive into central London if they can possibly avoid it anyway.
Unfortunately, my son lives in semi-rural Bexley and with my recently-sold, 10 year old diesel van, I wouldn't have been able to drive to see him after ULEZ without paying a stupid amount of money and he only lives two miles inside the zone. I've sold the van now and have a 2017 diesel estate which is OK for now but if they stick to the six-years-old diesel figure next year, it won't be allowed. If I lived in Bexley I would be livid when my 10 year old, well-maintained diesel was suddenly considered a pariah.
Unfortunately, my son lives in semi-rural Bexley and with my recently-sold, 10 year old diesel van, I wouldn't have been able to drive to see him after ULEZ without paying a stupid amount of money and he only lives two miles inside the zone. I've sold the van now and have a 2017 diesel estate which is OK for now but if they stick to the six-years-old diesel figure next year, it won't be allowed. If I lived in Bexley I would be livid when my 10 year old, well-maintained diesel was suddenly considered a pariah.
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These days, if you say you’re English, they put you in jail.These days, you have to follow statements of race, ethnicity, size, gender, height, dietary requirements etc. with 'other fat, black, non-binary, vegan, despotic dwarves are available', that will probably cover you
(C) Stewart Lee
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Our hotel was in Gunnersbury, just a few yards inside the ULEZ zone. We used the car in the Chiswick/Richmond area.
I really think there should be some exemption for residents with non complaint cars. But that is a problem that you in the UK must resolve, probably at the ballot box.
We have our own crazies trying to kill trade and commerce in our towns, believing we can all get on our bikes to move around town in a return to the past.
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Speaking with friends in the UK, I rather got the impression that the powers that be in the UK have adopted and put into practice a lot of ideas that Orwell set out in 1984.
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No, no,no! They chase you via debt collecting agencies in your country of residence.
I was wary because I read about a guy who happily drove around the London ULEZ zone in a camper van and got a whole load of fines that mounted up to several thousand Euros. I coughed up as I thought £25 for two days was cheap insurance against Gengis Khan's goons at London Transport.
Not just a British problem, but these anti pollution scams in various countries are easy to fall foul of, if you do not do your homework.
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Well not really - you just have to avoid talking like a racist if you don’t want to sound like a racist.These days, you have to follow statements of race, ethnicity, size, gender, height, dietary requirements, invasive tendencies, etc. with 'other fat, black, non-binary, vegan, despotic dwarves are available', that will probably cover you
Simples
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Sorry I cannot see the "racism" in the nickname I have given to the Mayor of London, Maybe Adolf Kahn is OK or Karl Khan. Reading the news, it seems he is a bit of a tyrant who has even upset his own party The Gengis, just gives the idea, Just like Thatcher Milk Snatcher of our youth.
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Sorry - but I bluntly don't buy your explanation.
As for 'upsetting' his own party; the general public's attitude to these issues are only slightly more nuanced than that of many politicians (who refuse to see anything further than their own career prospects.
We've fallen into a world where doing the right thing is now of lesser value than doing the 'popular' thing. If you think that's clever, or your nickname for the Mayor is clever, or even your ignoring the role of both the former mayor and the government being clever - all look the absolute opposite to me.
This isn't a party political issue, or even a reflection on one particular politician. The world is literally burning and some people think that pointing a racist finger at a particular politician is somehow being 'funny'. I'm shining a light on how ridiculous that is.
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I'm taking side-bets on how many more posts before Godwin's Law comes into effect and, subjectively, how far from the original post referencing the cost of visitor attractions we can get before it happens.
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I despair.
My advice, stop the bickering and get back to the original topic of the thread. Nobody looks good lowering themselves.
Now, back to the original topic, if you don't mind of course.
A reminder, the thread title is 'The Cost Of Seeing.' Seems simple enough to me!
My advice, stop the bickering and get back to the original topic of the thread. Nobody looks good lowering themselves.
Now, back to the original topic, if you don't mind of course.
A reminder, the thread title is 'The Cost Of Seeing.' Seems simple enough to me!
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Madame Tussauds is 36 quid for an Adult and not even got the Planetarium there anymore.
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I'm taking side-bets on how many more posts before Godwin's Law comes into effect and, subjectively, how far from the original post referencing the cost of visitor attractions we can get before it happens.
You'd lose, on the basis that you need to learn to read more carefully.
It was used an hour before your post.
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The Eden Project here in Cornwall is £38, I think the Lost Gardens of Heligan is £22.50, each for one adult ticket. How families with two adults and two or three kids manage to go anywhere at all these days is beyond me; add food, drink, and travel and a day out to any paid-for attraction is going to go in to the low hundreds of pounds at least. It's a sign of the times I suppose, staff, running costs and administration must come to a sizeable amount of money and this doesn't include building the attraction in the first place. It must be a difficult balancing act as put the price up too much and people won't come, don't put it up enough and it won't be there to visit in the first place. It has to be said that wages have gone up too so it's not all doom and gloom...it just seems like it.
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A 3 hour landing on Bass Rock was £140. All over by 10am. Did I begrudge it? Nope, because it was a hell of an experience that I had to do. Would I do it again? Not in a hurry - I'd rather go to the Isle of May three times
In terms of National Trust etc - my NTS membership pays for itself just on car parking at St Abb's Head. Anywhere else NT/NTS I go is a bonus.
In terms of National Trust etc - my NTS membership pays for itself just on car parking at St Abb's Head. Anywhere else NT/NTS I go is a bonus.
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Just looked at Bass Rock, in the picture I saw it looks like it's covered in bird s***, is it or are they birds?
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Just looked at Bass Rock, in the picture I saw it looks like it's covered in bird s***, is it or are they birds?
Both.
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Maybe these places cost money to run and the ticket price reflects that.
The alternative is to subsidise them, which would need a government that…
The alternative is to subsidise them, which would need a government that…
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I was extremely disappointed to find out last week that my favourite building in the world, The Pantheon, is now charging €5 to enter.
It was always one of the first places I visited in Rome, and I would go a few times whilst I was there to be in awe of the ceiling and the building itself. Viewing the live webcam looking at The Pantheon, it looks like there is no shortage of people wanting to queue up and pay to enter.
It would be interesting to compare numbers pre charging, when you could just walk in anytime, vs now. A long queue makes it look like a lot of people, but then a lot of people would be in and out all the time before. It would also be interesting to know how busy it is inside now once you have paid. Before it ebbed and flowed with how busy it could be, sometimes rammed, sometimes surprisingly sparse.
All of these tourist destinations are charging because they can, and it doesn't seem to be deterring many, with many such places packed with people. Despite global recession, tourist numbers seem to higher than ever before.
Especially post pandemic, there is a lot of lost revenue to be gotten back for a lot of these locations, and if people are willing to pay....
The Pantheon aside, I'm glad my travel photography is the streets and scenic locations outside, and you don't have to pay for that. Unless of course you count the 'Tourist Tax' a lot of European city's now charge.
It was always one of the first places I visited in Rome, and I would go a few times whilst I was there to be in awe of the ceiling and the building itself. Viewing the live webcam looking at The Pantheon, it looks like there is no shortage of people wanting to queue up and pay to enter.
It would be interesting to compare numbers pre charging, when you could just walk in anytime, vs now. A long queue makes it look like a lot of people, but then a lot of people would be in and out all the time before. It would also be interesting to know how busy it is inside now once you have paid. Before it ebbed and flowed with how busy it could be, sometimes rammed, sometimes surprisingly sparse.
All of these tourist destinations are charging because they can, and it doesn't seem to be deterring many, with many such places packed with people. Despite global recession, tourist numbers seem to higher than ever before.
Especially post pandemic, there is a lot of lost revenue to be gotten back for a lot of these locations, and if people are willing to pay....The Pantheon aside, I'm glad my travel photography is the streets and scenic locations outside, and you don't have to pay for that. Unless of course you count the 'Tourist Tax' a lot of European city's now charge.
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I was extremely disappointed to find out last week that my favourite building in the world, The Pantheon, is now charging €5 to enter.
It was always one of the first places I visited in Rome, and I would go a few times whilst I was there to be in awe of the ceiling and the building itself. Viewing the live webcam looking at The Pantheon, it looks like there is no shortage of people wanting to queue up and pay to enter.
It would be interesting to compare numbers pre charging, when you could just walk in anytime, vs now. A long queue makes it look like a lot of people, but then a lot of people would be in and out all the time before. It would also be interesting to know how busy it is inside now once you have paid. Before it ebbed and flowed with how busy it could be, sometimes rammed, sometimes surprisingly sparse.
All of these tourist destinations are charging because they can, and it doesn't seem to be deterring many, with many such places packed with people. Despite global recession, tourist numbers seem to higher than ever before.
The Pantheon aside, I'm glad my travel photography is the streets and scenic locations outside, and you don't have to pay for that. Unless of course you count the 'Tourist Tax' a lot of European city's now charge.
€5 is not a great sum to pay, to see one of the wonders of Roman engineering. St Marks in Venice charges just €3. I would put it in the category of token charges.
I do a lot of Architectural photography and often leave €5 in the collection box of churches or other monuments, I have photographed without having to pay an entrance fee. I see it as a small contribution to the maintenance costs.
EH and NT know that people will pay high entrance costs, because people have travelled specifically to see a place and having perhaps spent quite a sum on petrol and maybe hotel costs, the punters are more of less forced to bite the bullet. This was our case at Battle.
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Unfortunately, I have had to travel to the UK several times this year, mainly to "put up" with the fatal consequences of Britain's failing NHS's treatment of my mother. This is not the place to discuss this matter any further. But the treatment my mother did not receive would never happen where I live in Italy. In fact it was beyond the comprehension of my Italian friends, when I described what happened.
We travelled up to the UK this summer because my wife wanted to see Richard Ashcroft in concert (Heritage Enelfield). By the time this last act came on a good number in the audience were p***ed out of their minds and their boorish antics made the enjoyment of the act we came to see difficult. I had forgotten about Britain's "drinking culture". But there is a hope. a couple of teenagers sitting next to us went the whole day drinking nothing stronger than coffee, and were as p***ed off as we were with the drunks. So there is hope.
The price of entry into monuments is a minor issue, fleecing tourists, might seem clever, but it leaves a nasty taste in the mouth, and perhaps a desire not to visit Britain again. How can the average family afford admission to Stonehenge at £25 a ticket? The fact that art galleries and museums are free in the UK on the other hand is a great stimulus to tourism.
The administration of Britain's cultural heritage by EH and the NT is just a good snapshot of modern Britain.
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Their business model is designed to attract members - and it works as designed. If you're a family, you're highly unlikely to buy day tickets to a single venue when annual membership can actually be cheaper or a couple of quid more.
We had NT membership for years when the kids were small and now we have EH membership which costs about the same as taking the grandkids to a local property just once.
We have family membership to both EH and NT.
All started when we regularly visited, something we do less of now, but we maintain the membership so that we can just visit somewhere if we want, but also as an ongoing support of the work they do in maintaining the many sites.
We do question the value of these from time to time - but compared to other 'entertainment' costs (EG TV / Netflix subscriptions) they're actually quite reasonable!
All started when we regularly visited, something we do less of now, but we maintain the membership so that we can just visit somewhere if we want, but also as an ongoing support of the work they do in maintaining the many sites.
We do question the value of these from time to time - but compared to other 'entertainment' costs (EG TV / Netflix subscriptions) they're actually quite reasonable!
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Should the cultural heritage of a country be administered as a business, presumably to make a profit? Or was the The Blair government right when they abolished admission charges to museums and art galleries considering them educational assets? Would it be more ethical if English Heritage, was a public body running the countries cultural heritage in a sober subsidised manner that brings us back to the days when the Ministry of Public Works was responsable?
I do not know the answer.
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I have lived in Italy for 35 years and have known Italy for more than 40 years. It has never happened to me, and I travel a lot on business, and use Taxis.
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EH and NT are Charitable Trusts, rather than standard businesses - while they do still make a 'profit', this is then put back into the costs of maintaining existing sites, and purchasing any 'new' sites that become available (New in the sense that they were not previously EH or NT, obviously) - rather than the old Ministry of Public Works, which relied upon money from the Treasury to make up for the shortfall (as costs always exceeded any revenue).
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They’re both massive charitable trusts that do a huge amount of good work for the country.
Are you expecting that to be done for free?
What’s your point here? Is everything supposed to be free just for you? Free to drive through the capital destroying the fabric of society and then expecting someone else to look after our heritage for free so you can enjoy it.
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re: ULEZ and foreign registered cars
Whenever I go abroad I always check to see if there are any national or local regulations. For example I have a Crit'air vignette for France which had to be ordered in advance.
A quick check shows that foreign registered cars need to be registered before driving in London
tfl.gov.uk
Whenever I go abroad I always check to see if there are any national or local regulations. For example I have a Crit'air vignette for France which had to be ordered in advance.
A quick check shows that foreign registered cars need to be registered before driving in London
Non-UK vehicles driving in London
Vehicles registered outside the UK need to meet emissions standards when driving in London or pay a daily charge. The following schemes are in operation in London.
tfl.gov.uk
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I just want to have fair equitable and reasonable admission charges to places of interest, just like they manage to do in France, Germany and Italy. I do not pretend free admission. In fact when I come across a place with free admission , I always leave a contribution in the collection box.