The Cost of Seeing

NCV

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Nigel
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I like visiting and photographing our architectural heritage amongst other things. I live in Italy and visiting most monuments costs about €5 for most monuments like the Roman city of Luni, or less when there is not much to see. The really world famous sites cost more; the Colosseum charges €16 and some places like the "perfect city" of Sabbionetta costs €15 for seven sites visitable in the space of a Year. The same goes for Palazzo Te in Mantova. The Duomo and some other churches in Florence are the only religious sites that charge admission. Here it is an activity which is not expensive, which I have come to take for granted.

We have recently been on holiday in the UK and was surprised that it costs much more to visit most cultural sites in Britain. We were close to Kew gardens, near where I once lived and often spent a sunny Sunday afternoon, after paying the traditional 1 Pence fee. We just had a couple of hours, but it now costs £24 to go in. So we gave up on that idea. Next up Hampton court: £26,30 excluding donation! Next time. Chiswick house a second division monument is a reasonable £8,50. The National Trust have some eyewatering admission charges too. Dyrham Park near my hometown, Bath charges £17 for a pretty average stately home.

We stayed in Battle before catching the shuttle back to France. this visit was £16 a head. OK the site has huge historical significance, but all there is to see is a field with some sheep and the ruined Monks living quarters. A €5 Italian monument.

The wonderful thing about the UK is that the art galleries and museums are still free. Unique in Europe I believe. Cathedrals are still reasonable. Wells and Bath Abbey ask for a £5 donation. So not all is negative in the UK.

Let's take a look at France and some places I have visited. Cathedrals and other religious monuments are free. The Castles on the Loire seem to cost about €15. The Popes palace in Avignon €12. The Pont du Gard is free but you pay €8 to park the car. The Roman arenas in Nimes and Arles come in at €10. A minor monument like the fascinating L’Abbaye troglodytique de Saint-Roman, near Avignon costs €5,75. The spectacular Les quatre châteaux de Lastours , near Carcassonne costs €8 So France sits in the middle between Italy and the UK.

Looking at the prices for Versailles and the Trip Advisor reviews leads me to another argument. Visiting the major world famous sites has become an unpleasant stressful experience, due to the huge overcrowding as well as becoming expensive. Back in the late sixties as a child, we stopped off at Stonehenge. There was a small layby and you paid a small sum to a guy in a small wooden shed. We were alone and wandered freely amongst the stones. At some point Stonehenge became a mass tourism destination with a shiny visitor centre and an eyewatering £26 admission fee. Visit Avebury instead! Italy is not innocent in this price gouging. My Florentine father in law was baptised in the Baptistry in Florence. In the not too distant past it was used for its intended purpose. We visited in the late eighties and you just wandered in for free. Visiting Florence was a magical experience. Now you have to pay, and are assigned a limited time slot , I often go to Florence for work. Florence in the summer is now a horribly overcrowded hell on earth in the centre.

Conclusion. I think France probable has the sensible pricing structure (Versailles excluded), compared to what you get to see. Italy is often very inexpensive outside of the "art cities" such as Rome and Florence, where they are learning to fleece the tourist. The UK is the winner if you like art gallery's, but English Heritage is mostly overpriced, unless you buy a years membership (£69) and make good use of it. Four or five monuments will repay the cost of membership. Kew Gardens in now hugely overpriced in my opinion.

Just some idle thoughts after a holiday.
 
We have English Heritage membership and have previously held National Trust and they help with the cost of entry and usually parking, but not always. The cost for tourists is eye wateringly high as they are unlikely to make the most of membership.

I saw an ice cream van a week or so ago selling a small cone for £4 and with a flake for £5 and there was a long queue of folk buying them. I have no idea how a family can afford a day out.
 
Most attractions are overpriced in the UK (apart from the taxpayer funded national museums) compared to those I have visited in Europe.
Some of the prices can be reduced by using schemes such as the 2 for 1 if you travel by rail.
Only problem with this being the actual cost of the rail fares, again expensive in comparison to other countries
Happened to look at the London offers last week, twenty to thirty pounds per adult seems to be the average.
Then the price or often poor quality food and drink makes these prices even more unaffordable for many.

We really are rip off Britain, despite that there seems to be a large number of foreign tourists.
Can only assume they are better off financially although they must still be shocked by some of the prices.
 
Went to Canterbury and the surrounding areas for my 40th, didn’t realise you had to pay to go into the cathedral. At £32 for the two of us we didn’t it bother.

There were others, OAPs mostly, outside baulking loudly at the price.
 
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Join the National Trust.

Not only do you get in all their historic places for free but they own countless car parks by wonderful beaches.

Saved us a fortune this year in car parks alone.

We have English Heritage membership and have previously held National Trust and they help with the cost of entry and usually parking, but not always. The cost for tourists is eye wateringly high as they are unlikely to make the most of membership.

I saw an ice cream van a week or so ago selling a small cone for £4 and with a flake for £5 and there was a long queue of folk buying them. I have no idea how a family can afford a day out.

Yes, I mentioned that NT and English Heritage membership is a good money saver for those who can make use of it over the year. But for those of us who visit the UK for a holiday, visiting monuments becomes a very expensive pastime. Compared to what I pay in Italy, I would go as far to say that the NT and English Heritage are rip off merchants. Is it really worth paying £26 to visit Stonehenge and not even be able to wander amongst the stones, but just skirt around the outside?

Whilst we are on the subject of Stonehenge. In the Val Camonica in the Italian Lakes area (Iseo) You can visit the incredible prehistoric rock carvings at Capo di Ponte for £7 for the State owned site and for free for the site owned by the local council. Infinitely more interesting than Stonehenge.
 
Most attractions are overpriced in the UK (apart from the taxpayer funded national museums) compared to those I have visited in Europe.
Some of the prices can be reduced by using schemes such as the 2 for 1 if you travel by rail.
Only problem with this being the actual cost of the rail fares, again expensive in comparison to other countries
Happened to look at the London offers last week, twenty to thirty pounds per adult seems to be the average.
Then the price or often poor quality food and drink makes these prices even more unaffordable for many.

We really are rip off Britain, despite that there seems to be a large number of foreign tourists.
Can only assume they are better off financially although they must still be shocked by some of the prices.
We came from Italy and like most of Europe we have a similar cost of living. We just decided to give these overpriced visits a miss, apart from Battle Abbey where we decided to accept the cost as we stayed in Battle expressly to see the battlefield.
 
Join the National Trust.

Not only do you get in all their historic places for free but they own countless car parks by wonderful beaches.

Saved us a fortune this year in car parks alone.


Join the Scottish National Trust and save a few bob while getting the same benefits. Still £117 for a year's joint membership though.
 
Went to Canterbury and the surrounding areas for my 40th, didn’t realise you had to pay to go into the cathedral. At £32 for the two of us we didn’t it bother.

There were others, OAPs mostly, outside baulking loudly at the price.

The Archbishop and his staff need to refresh their memory of the Gospels, with reference to the bits about the money lenders in the temple.
 
An interesting thread, and confirms my reluctance to do the UK heritage sites. TBH I get bored with seeing all the Georgian stately homes anyway, and most of the really interesting buildings are stuffed with educational displays or exhibitions of unrelated stuff, not to mention groups of noisy visitors. I used to live a couple of miles from Stonehenge, a vastly overrated and underwhelming monument; I agree that Avebury has far more spirituality about it.
Whereas the most interesting heritage sites I visited in recent years were in Malta, I think free if I recall or at least very cheap, and unspoilt by clutter and people.
 
An interesting thread, and confirms my reluctance to do the UK heritage sites. TBH I get bored with seeing all the Georgian stately homes anyway, and most of the really interesting buildings are stuffed with educational displays or exhibitions of unrelated stuff, not to mention groups of noisy visitors. I used to live a couple of miles from Stonehenge, a vastly overrated and underwhelming monument; I agree that Avebury has far more spirituality about it.
Whereas the most interesting heritage sites I visited in recent years were in Malta, I think free if I recall or at least very cheap, and unspoilt by clutter and people.
Not another stately home with its suits of armour, rugs hanging on the wall and portrait of great x10 Uncle Cuthbert.
Give me a historic industrial site any time, the best value are those that you can spend a day visiting.
My favourites are the quirky little museums such as the Bubblecar Museum or The Museum of Brands.

Heritage Railways are becoming prohibitively expensive, presumably to recover Covid losses and fuel price increases.
High prices tend to put casual visitors off, hard to justify 100 quid plus on an average day out for a couple
 
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Just in case any current NT member is not aware, there is a possible 25% concession.

From NT site:

Senior membership concession​

If you're an existing member aged 60 or over, and you've been a member for at least the last three consecutive years, you can ask for 25 per cent off your subscription. This means that you’ll pay £63.00 for individual senior membership and £104.40 for joint senior membership.

We can’t currently process senior membership applications online or at our places, but we can do so over the phone. To let us know that you’d like the senior membership concession, call 0344 800 1895.
 
I was impressed by Stonhenge when I last visited but it was back when you just park up ans wander freely among the stone. I'm pretty sure I would not now enjoy the Stonehenge experience.

Agree about Avebury, even back then I found it more interesting. One of the best sites in the area, IMO is West Kennet Long Barrow, but I haven't been for years so hope the access hasn't changed.

Dave
 
Went to Canterbury and the surrounding areas for my 40th, didn’t realise you had to pay to go into the cathedral. At £32 for the two of us we didn’t it bother.

There were others, OAPs mostly, outside baulking loudly at the price.
York Minster is the same price, St Paul's a fiver more, I think Ely and Lincoln are about a tenner each.
Compare that to German cities I visited recently (Koln and Aachen) with historic Dom's where entrance was free
 
NT have reciprocal agreements with some countries, can use your NT membership overseas and vice versa, there is also a NT 2 week family touring pass for £99 which may save a few quid if visiting a few sites.
 
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Join the Scottish National Trust and save a few bob while getting the same benefits. Still £117 for a year's joint membership though.

The down side is the NTS card isn't recognised by the machines in a NT car park and vice versa. Fine if you're visiting somewhere where there's a person to waive the fee, not so useful when you're just using one of the NT coastal car parks, of which there are lots round here.
 
I thought that some of our tourist attractions were over priced until we visited Croatia earlier this year.
One of our taxi drivers was stunned when we told him that walking around the Dubrovnik city walls was thirty five Euro per parson, apparently that equated to a three fold increase since 2019, he blamed the pandemic and adopting the Euro earlier this year.
 
Not another stately home with its suits of armour, rugs hanging on the wall and portrait of great x10 Uncle Cuthbert.
Give me a historic industrial site any time, the best value are those that you can spend a day visiting.
My favourites are the quirky little museums such as the Bubblecar Museum or The Museum of Brands.

Heritage Railways are becoming prohibitively expensive, presumably to recover Covid losses and fuel price increases.
High prices tend to put casual visitors off, hard to justify 100 quid plus on an average day out for a couple

I agree that some small off the mass tourism radar locations, are the nicest places to visit like the little 1000 rear old Romanesque churches I like to photograph in Italy. Or some Norman churches I photographed in Bath last year.
 
And Peterborough Cathedral is free.
It is, but the loud music for the latest event there isn't very pleasant.
Instrumental melodic rock as is often played before the main act comes on stage.
Kept expecting spots to come on then the drummer and lead guitarist to strike up.
The event itself is a tenner and free access is only allowed up to just before the choir stalls.
 
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It is, but the loud music for the latest event there isn't very pleasant.
Instrumental melodic rock as is often played before the main act comes on stage.
Kept expecting spots to come on then the drummer and lead guitarist to strike up.
The event itself is a tenner and free access is only allowed up to just before the choir stalls.
Think you have also done the behind the scenes tour - and that was well worth the charge. Probably wouldn't want to do the roof in driving rain though.
 
Think you have also done the behind the scenes tour - and that was well worth the charge. Probably wouldn't want to do the roof in driving rain though.
I have indeed, back in April 2018
This was taken lying on my back looking up at the bell tower.
Ropes.jpg
 
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We spent some time in Corfu at the start of the year and the heritage prices were either very reasonable or free. The downside is that you take your life in your hands as the health and safety aspect in a lot of places is zero!!! Lots of unguarded edges and dangerous walking/climbing spots. We are NT members (OAP rates) but the "free" access makes it worthwhile if you use the card entry and car parks regularly. The quality and prices of the eateries does seem to vary quite a bit and the shops are definitely geared for "big spenders"!
 
The down side is the NTS card isn't recognised by the machines in a NT car park and vice versa. Fine if you're visiting somewhere where there's a person to waive the fee, not so useful when you're just using one of the NT coastal car parks, of which there are lots round here.

Hmmm... I believe you, Jan, although when we visited Edinburgh last year, the SNT membership flogger told us that we were covered for NT car parks as well as SNT ones. We didn't join either.

We did "do" Tintagel Castle for a few hours a few weeks back. Haven't been there since the bridge went up. Managed a quick glimpse of the statue as well, without some ditzy bint draping herself over it! The 3 nights in Tintagel cost us more than a week in Crete!
 
The down side is the NTS card isn't recognised by the machines in a NT car park and vice versa. Fine if you're visiting somewhere where there's a person to waive the fee, not so useful when you're just using one of the NT coastal car parks, of which there are lots round here.
They don't need to be recognised.

From the NTS web site:

"Can I park for free at National Trust places, as they no longer use car stickers?​

The National Trust has started using barcodes on their cards to gain access and free parking at National Trust car parks in England, Wales and Northern Ireland. As a member of the National Trust for Scotland, your car sticker is still accepted and will grant free parking. In car parks that have attendants, members should show their card and display their sticker (or any ticket) you are given for free parking. Similarly, National Trust members can still request a car parking sticker from the National Trust should they wish to visit Scotland and use our free parking benefit.

We are in communication with the National Trust about this and have been assured that any National Trust for Scotland member will continue to receive free car parking in all National Trust car parks."


Although, we now have a single membership of the NT, we are also joint life members of NTS (from before moving to Wales and now England), but before we had NT membership, we ignored the machines in unattended car parks and showed our NTS membership card in attended car parks.
 
Ah car parking, another fine way they have made this English Ex Pat much less homesick. My brother warned me that in pub and hotel car parks, you need to register your car registration number. I religiously did this in our hotel in Bath, but a month later the car hire firm debited me £100 for parking illegally in our hotel. The Hotel refunded me in the end, but private car parking fines are a perilous trap for Johnny Foreigner, visiting the UK.

The we have Gengis Khan's ULEZ. We drove up from Italy with this time with our car. London Transport's site was unable to register my compliant car registration plates, so not to risk anything, I paid for the two days that we stayed in London. Pity the minimum charge for the refund is the same as the £12,5 I paid each day.

But to return to my original post. The various membership schemes that EH and the NT subsidise somewhat those who live in the UK. But they are really are scalping the foreign visitor, compared to what I pay in Italy or France. I have just discovered that St Marks in Venice, one of the worlds great churches charges a €3 basic entry charge. You pay some small add on charges to see the two museums.
 
Many attractions around the world now charge locals and tourists different rates to enter attractions, we have seen this in Thailand many times. I think that this is a better system as at least the tourist subsidises the cost for the local and presume that the tourist has figured in their costs prior to deciding to visit?

I understand that even with NT and/or EH membership you are still required to pay parking at some sites.
 
I went to see Stonehenge many, many years ago, I can't remember what the price was but the site seems to indicate it is now over £26!!!! That's eye-watering for a set of rocks that, rumour has it, were re-erected by the Victorians anyway. Unless there is something extra there that I don't know about, you can get just as good a view from your car as you drive past on the A303, with the added bonus in that it won't take as long (although the traffic round there goes very slowly because people are saving twenty six quid by rubber-necking from their cars).

As has been said, it's better to go to Avebury and IIRC, you even have to steer out around one of the standing stones so getting close is not a problem.

NT and EH membership can be a good idea but it is expensive unless you are a determined frequent visitor and of course the fact that they seem to be competing organisations is less than helpful; why they don't have some sort of reciprocal arrangement is baffling.
 
I went to see Stonehenge many, many years ago, I can't remember what the price was but the site seems to indicate it is now over £26!!!! That's eye-watering for a set of rocks that, rumour has it, were re-erected by the Victorians anyway. Unless there is something extra there that I don't know about, you can get just as good a view from your car as you drive past on the A303, with the added bonus in that it won't take as long (although the traffic round there goes very slowly because people are saving twenty six quid by rubber-necking from their cars).

As has been said, it's better to go to Avebury and IIRC, you even have to steer out around one of the standing stones so getting close is not a problem.

NT and EH membership can be a good idea but it is expensive unless you are a determined frequent visitor and of course the fact that they seem to be competing organisations is less than helpful; why they don't have some sort of reciprocal arrangement is baffling.

Yes, I was surprised to see it costs £26. They have built a shiny modern "visitor centre" , with some "modern museum" exhibits and of course a shop and places to eat and drink about a mile away, according to their rather patronising site. I see they have built some tacky "Neolithic" huts too.

Can't we go back to the Ministry of Public works, a unformed guy in a little shed and sixpence to enter, and maybe another sixpence for those plain and simple, but informative thin blue guidebooks they use to have. In Italy it is still mostly in that "Ministry" stile with essential information and low cost admission. But I guess the Disneyfication, will arrive here too eventually.
 
NT and EH membership can be a good idea but it is expensive unless you are a determined frequent visitor and of course the fact that they seem to be competing organisations is less than helpful; why they don't have some sort of reciprocal arrangement is baffling.
Suspect NT and EH have looked at this and found they would lose money, EH do have a reciprocal agreement with CADW (Welsh equivalent of EH) first year members get 50% off and 2nd year onwards CADW members have free entry to EH sites.
 
It may be unpopular but I would be happiest if there were a simple rule regarding all such places: if they receive money out of taxation then entry is free and if they charge for entry they receive nothing from taxation.

Then everyone would know where they stand.
 
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Right. I got ripped off with this idiotic war on the car. My car was compliant but they could not register my Italian number plates.
So we are to simply ignore the ‘racist’ labelling of a London mayor who you’re incorrectly blaming for the former Mayors policies?

Just because you feel ‘ripped off’.

Ok perfectly reasonable (not)
 
So we are to simply ignore the ‘racist’ labelling of a London mayor who you’re incorrectly blaming for the former Mayors policies?
Game of Thrones Rule 1: blame the problems caused by your mistakes on whoever replaces you.
 
Game of Thrones Rule 1: blame the problems caused by your mistakes on whoever replaces you.
I did not make a mistake. We drove up by car with Italian Number plates. LT's system was not able to register my number plate. I paid the €12.5 each day to avoid the possibility of a fine .

So we are to simply ignore the ‘racist’ labelling of a London mayor who you’re incorrectly blaming for the former Mayors policies?

Just because you feel ‘ripped off’.

Ok perfectly reasonable (not)

A play on words naming the London Mayor "Gengis Khan"' is hardly racist. I gather ULEZ is not popular amongst Londoners.
 
I did not make a mistake.
I made no suggestion that you had.

I was responding with agreement to Phil's #37 about attempts to blame Boris Johnson's ULEZ mess on Sadiq Khan.
 
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