The Formula 1 / IndyCar Thread

Here's hoping he can convert that into a decent grid position for tomorrow and then to a point or more on Sunday.
 
those red bulls have found power from somewhere ??
 
Outstanding first lap of the "this is definitely not a race" this afternoon by Alonso.
 
Way too much weaving from him though.
 
I enjoyed Karun Chandhok's analysis of the incident. He basically concludes that you have two drivers who are not willing to back out with neither doing anything against the rules. The result was an inevitable collision and it could easily have been both drivers crashing out. A racing incident.

Max has yet to start thinking about the long game, I guess because he hasn't been in that position since he came to F1. There are times to attack and times to give up the position and try and regain it through strategy if you can. Sometimes, finishing a sure second and netting the points is better than not finishing at all.

Max could learn a lot from watching Jonathan Rea in World Superbikes, especially the 2019 season.
 
Interesting that Red Bull reckon that LH was going too fast to make the corner. However, wasn't MV going even faster?
 
At the time of watching it, with the on-board and slo- mo reviews.

It seemed to me that LH made a legitimate move approaching the corner and had obtained 'in effect' control of the corner. However, they were both carrying too much speed to both make the turn on anything like the racing line. Whether LH lifted or braked.....he still had the corner.

IMO it was a racing incident by two hard chargers, though if there is any blame i see MV as primary trigger of the incident.
 
TBH, I reckon both team principals deserve a race ban for their attempts to influence the stewards - as bad as footballers crowding round the ref!
 
Nod said:
TBH, I reckon both team principals deserve a race ban for their attempts to influence the stewards - as bad as footballers crowding round the ref!
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And just as in football, if the authorities allow it (which F1 does - Wolff was told he could do it by the F1 Race Director) then it will continue to happen.

I don't disagree with you that it shouldn't be allowed in either sport.
 
Box Brownie said:
At the time of watching it, with the on-board and slo- mo reviews.

It seemed to me that LH made a legitimate move approaching the corner and had obtained 'in effect' control of the corner. However, they were both carrying too much speed to both make the turn on anything like the racing line. Whether LH lifted or braked.....he still had the corner.

IMO it was a racing incident by two hard chargers, though if there is any blame i see MV as primary trigger of the incident.
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I said after watching the incident and then the move by Lewis on Charles Leclerc, why did Christian Horner say that it is impossible to overtake at Copse? Do certain corners have a "No Overtaking" sign on them? Lewis took the inside line at Copse both times. Max decided to turn in slightly and accelerate, thus running over Lewis' n/s front with his o/s rear. Charles decided to run out and go slightly off track. I think Lewis has already backed off several times from moves which Max has made, and Max hasn't exactly got a squeaky clean past when it comes to pushing things to far.
 
Lewis knew Copse was his chance to get past Max and if he didn't then he was in trouble, and that just made him try that little bit harder.
I was on the National Pit Straight and you could see he was going for it.

I'm not saying LH was solely to blame, at the end of the day these guys are racing drivers, was it Senna who said 'if you stop going for a gap that doesn't exist then you stop being a racing driver'?

It was a fabulous weekend, great atmosphere at Silverstone, really enjoyed the sprint qualifying format, hope to see more of that, glad Max is okay and look forward to Hungary next week.
 
it was a desparate move by hamilton , he would never have made the corner ,once he lifted it was maxs corner , he should have been tight to the apex which he missed thats why he was given the penalty hes been making mistakes all season , this is the third time hes taken a red bull out with his ill judged attempts.
 
mav said:
it was a desparate move by hamilton , he would never have made the corner ,once he lifted it was maxs corner , he should have been tight to the apex which he missed thats why he was given the penalty hes been making mistakes all season , this is the third time hes taken a red bull out with his ill judged attempts.
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er except he did twice more overtaking exactly at that corner during the race including in the dying laps to take Leclerc. He was completely alongside to the point where he needed to turn. If Max had simply run wide there would not be any sort of debate but emotions are running high because of the impact. If the stewards are not carefull no one will try overtaking and we will end up with the processionary races from a few years back. I dont see anyone complaining about max banging wheels with lewis down the straight previous. Had there been no contact and Lewis made the move he would be hailed as a god.
 
AgentOrange76 said:
er except he did twice more overtaking exactly at that corner during the race including in the dying laps to take Leclerc. He was completely alongside to the point where he needed to turn. If Max had simply run wide there would not be any sort of debate but emotions are running high because of the impact. If the stewards are not carefull no one will try overtaking and we will end up with the processionary races from a few years back. I dont see anyone complaining about max banging wheels with lewis down the straight previous. Had there been no contact and Lewis made the move he would be hailed as a god.
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I get this and we have to be careful as we don't want to go back to the yawn of F1 from recent years, these guys are racers and this is what they do, I do think if roles were reversed both Max and Lewis would have done exactly the same thing, it definitely makes it more exciting for us spectators :)
 
Hanley said:
was it Senna who said 'if you stop going for a gap that doesn't exist then you stop being a racing driver'?
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Yes it was Senna who said that, he was replying to a question that Jackie Stewart asked. The question was "why have you had more accidents with other drivers than every other World Champion"? or words to that effect.
Since then Senna's comment gets used to defend poor/over aggresive driving.
 
ScottT said:
Yes it was Senna who said that, he was replying to a question that Jackie Stewart asked. The question was "why have you had more accidents with other drivers than every other World Champion"? or words to that effect.
Since then Senna's comment gets used to defend poor/over aggresive driving.
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I don't think the Max / Lewis incident was poor or aggressive driving, I just think they both wanted it and didn't back down.
That's just my opinion of course.
 
In my book, the 10 second penalty was a cop out. Not doing anything would have had Red Bull frothing from the mouth, doing more would have seen Mercedes doing the same. Max is a brilliant young driver but he can be over ambitious at times, and I think Lewis was at a point of "it's all or nothing" to keep the title. All in all, nothing more than a racing incident.

However, I did note that Max pulled to the left to block LH, then cut back, isn't "weaving" outlawed these days.
 
Jelster said:
However, I did note that Max pulled to the left to block LH, then cut back, isn't "weaving" outlawed these days.
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I saw it the same as you and I've been surprised it's hardly been mentioned.
Verstappen has previously forced Hamiltion off the track and where was his penalty for that?
We all know Vestappen can be agressive with his driving and personally I believe that was the case with the incident.
I've quite liked Christian Horner but I believe his is acting like a spoilt child what with wanting it reviewed again.
This is the first time I've heard a team principal moaning about the cost of damage to the car and surely they have some kind of insurance to cover it?
 
Jelster said:
In my book, the 10 second penalty was a cop out. Not doing anything would have had Red Bull frothing from the mouth, doing more would have seen Mercedes doing the same. Max is a brilliant young driver but he can be over ambitious at times, and I think Lewis was at a point of "it's all or nothing" to keep the title. All in all, nothing more than a racing incident.

However, I did note that Max pulled to the left to block LH, then cut back, isn't "weaving" outlawed these days.
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Red Bull would say he was moving back to the racing line and you are allowed one move to defend and you can still return to the line.

So far in F1, Max really hasn't had anyone to battle against that has something to lose other than pride. Hamilton has a world championship to lose. Max needs to drive smarter, he has the car and the talent to win the championship but Hamilton will challenge him at every turn when he can. It's great racing.
 
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It's gettting spicy, great to see some racing at the front.

I think it was a racing incident btw, RB and Horner need to let it go, it happens.
 
moggi1964 said:
Red Bull would say he was moving back to the racing line and you are allowed one move to defend and you can still return to the line.
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But surely you can only move back to the racing line when it's "safe", and it proved not to be. Max is just too aggressive at times, if he had lost the lead I reckon that Red Bull would have worked a strategy to get him back in front. He had the whole race to win it back, but he decided to try and block Hamilton, and it backfired.
 
hashcake said:
This is the first time I've heard a team principal moaning about the cost of damage to the car and surely they have some kind of insurance to cover it?
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I'm pretty sure they have no insurance for the cars, staff members yes but not cars.
Plus all teams have had their budget cut to $175m so the damage costs to that car will be substantial, I'm guessing over $1m?

EDIT: Just googles it, damage costs are $1.8m :eek:
 
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admirable said:
I'm pretty sure they have no insurance for the cars, staff members yes but not cars.
Plus all teams have had their budget cut to $175m so the damage costs to that car will be substantial, I'm guessing over $1m?

EDIT: Just googles it, damage costs are $1.8m :eek:
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Apparently the in-car stereo system makes up a lot of that. Probably Bose, always overpriced :LOL:
 
It will be interesting to see (if we do) what RB have found in the data that the stewards didnt have access to
Rummours say lewis was too fast for the corner and was using max to make it but the stewards have way more data to sort that one
No new data no review
Could all end up with teddy on the floor and stamping of Horners feet
 
fuzzyedges said:
It will be interesting to see (if we do) what RB have found in the data that the stewards didnt have access to
Rummours say lewis was too fast for the corner and was using max to make it but the stewards have way more data to sort that one
No new data no review
Could all end up with teddy on the floor and stamping of Horners feet
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You can do that on a motorbike funnily enough (using another rider to get around the corner when you've come in a bit quick) but that's just far too risky in a F1 car as the suspension area can break so easily.

I think they should rename Copse to Horner Corner :)
 
Well I think that statement from Mercedes will just stoke the fire even more. Christian Horner really has shown another side to his personality with this, he's been acting like a petulant schoolboy. Do the arguing on the track, how many times has Max been the catalyst for other drivers to end up with a DNF? I would wager more than LH44, and he hasn't been around for even half the time....
 
I think RB and MV will be under intense scrutiny from now on, petulance and payback sometimes go hand-in-hand.
 
The "new" evidence given by Red Bull was apparently
a) GPS positioning, that obviously was known by the stewards
b) A simulation from Red Bulls own computers
c) A reinactment by Albon in a 2019 car (last years cars do not affect the budget cap or testing limitations but its a bit like comparing apples to oranges)
The object was to prove Lewis would not have made the corner and was driving reckless
The "new" evidence was thrown out as not "discovered but created"
It appears remarks were made also about the impartiality of the stewards which were not to liking of the stewards but as the review was thrown out its not known what they were
I dont think it was a smart move by Red Bull, time will tell
 
It's silly really as they do have the driver and the car and the team to win the championship this year. If they keep this up it just tarnishes the achievement (if they get it) in my opinion.

Time to move on AND SIGN MY PETITION ;) ;) ;) ;)
 
Horner has always been a ****, nothing to say to anyone who hasn't seen that before.

One of my favourite F1 moments


 
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