The Guardian Needs Your Butterfly Pics

It was only posted on the assumption some may be interested. If you're not, thats fine, simply don't click the link.
 
It's a very strange post considering that your last post was 7 May 2013. More than 4 years ago. People do get suspicious!
 
I happen to have an interest in the welfare of UK butterflies and mistakenly thought others here may feel the same way. You are correct in stating it is a long time since my last post here but when I joined, I did receive a warm welcome. The reasons for not posting since are personal and frankly none of your business. Unfortunately for me, I did not realise this had become such an unfriendly restrictive forum so will not be posting again.
 
Thanks for the response. there were no sinister or hidden motives or intentions whatsoever in my original post and I suspect Mickledore has not even read the article. Maybe he's simply having a "bad hair day " but it doesn't really matter either way as I have better ways to pass my time than read offensive posts. Thanks again for your interest.

John
 
I think it's a legit point - basically the paper is after free content, though perhaps we should be a little more generous to them than some since they don't actually use a paywall.
The photos I contributed were never meant to produce any income, so I'm not losing anything and if they are published that would be free exposure.
 
I think it's a legit point - basically the paper is after free content, though perhaps we should be a little more generous to them than some since they don't actually use a paywall.
Its a conservation piece about the butterfly count.
 
The photos I contributed were never meant to produce any income, so I'm not losing anything and if they are published that would be free exposure.

Its a conservation piece about the butterfly count.

It's an article in a newspaper that's sold for profit. The article may well be both admirable and beneficial, and while an amateur loses nothing by giving their pictures, professional photographers (and perhaps stock libraries) do not get the income they might otherwise have had. I'm not suggesting either of you are wrong, but Mickeldore 's point - that they want free content in order to sell papers for a profit - is also correct.
 
The photos I contributed were never meant to produce any income, so I'm not losing anything and if they are published that would be free exposure.
This is true to you, but you are taking work away from Pros who live by their photography.
The press is making money out of the papers and should pay for every thing they use in my opinion.
 
I wonder how many who are expressing such cynical, biased opinions have actually read and understood the article. It's simply an incentive to get people to send in photos and details of where they live and where the photo was taken to assist the butterfly census. I can't see where the question of Pros enters into the equation in such a venture.
 
I happen to have an interest in the welfare of UK butterflies and mistakenly thought others here may feel the same way. You are correct in stating it is a long time since my last post here but when I joined, I did receive a warm welcome. The reasons for not posting since are personal and frankly none of your business. Unfortunately for me, I did not realise this had become such an unfriendly restrictive forum so will not be posting again.
Thanks for the response. there were no sinister or hidden motives or intentions whatsoever in my original post and I suspect Mickledore has not even read the article. Maybe he's simply having a "bad hair day " but it doesn't really matter either way as I have better ways to pass my time than read offensive posts. Thanks again for your interest.

John

I could not care less that you have not posted for a long time.......what I do care about is that when you do post, you take one post, that may have an opinion that you do not agree with and accuse the forum of being unfriendly and restrictive. There are quite a lot of pro's on this forum, and they are entitled to have an opinion about news media paying for their material to fill their pages, I personally think that they should. It may also be that if and when you submit, the small print could give the licence to use your pictures as they see fit.
You say that you will not be posting again and that you have better things to do with your time. That's sad!!! can I suggest in stead that you reel yourself in and take part in the plenty of FRIENDLY and HELPFUL sections with the super people that participate in them......In all walks of life we do not agree all the time but life's to short
 
I could not care less that you have not posted for a long time.......what I do care about is that when you do post, you take one post, that may have an opinion that you do not agree with and accuse the forum of being unfriendly and restrictive. There are quite a lot of pro's on this forum, and they are entitled to have an opinion about news media paying for their material to fill their pages, I personally think that they should. It may also be that if and when you submit, the small print could give the licence to use your pictures as they see fit.
You say that you will not be posting again and that you have better things to do with your time. That's sad!!! can I suggest in stead that you reel yourself in and take part in the plenty of FRIENDLY and HELPFUL sections with the super people that participate in them......In all walks of life we do not agree all the time but life's to short

In fairness, if you walked into a bar after a 4 year break and as soon as you stepped through the door, you received a punch to the face, you may not be inclined to see if the others in the bar are friendly :)
 
These type of requests are always devide opinion on here. I can see both sides that not paying for content affects pros and that the paper are giving free coverage to a subject that probably doesn't have the money to pay for advertising their study. It's a contentious issue here as this one is a tricky situation. Personally I wouldn't have a problem if it was the study asking for the images for their promotional purposes, I can see how it differs slightly when it's a paper or media ran for profit asking for the images (but also provides free online content too).

A few years back the BBC used to pay for using images but have now changed their terms that basically allow them to do what they like with any submitted and they don't even have to give a credit (but say they try to). sadly times have changed with how media obtain images.
 
These type of requests are always devide opinion on here. I can see both sides that not paying for content affects pros and that the paper are giving free coverage to a subject that probably doesn't have the money to pay for advertising their study. It's a contentious issue here as this one is a tricky situation. Personally I wouldn't have a problem if it was the study asking for the images for their promotional purposes, I can see how it differs slightly when it's a paper or media ran for profit asking for the images (but also provides free online content too).

A few years back the BBC used to pay for using images but have now changed their terms that basically allow them to do what they like with any submitted and they don't even have to give a credit (but say they try to). sadly times have changed with how media obtain images.

It's not really a contentious issue. It's just the reality of the world today driven by the availability of high quality, sophisticated technology being readily available.

It's only 'contentious' with those who don't want to accept this new reality and can't or won't adapt.

It's not like there's really a choice in the matter. Time to differentiate!

Incidentally, I don't think I've bought a newspaper for 10 years, so it's obviously not just photographers :)

To the OP - thanks for bringing this to our attention.
 
I could not care less that you have not posted for a long time.......what I do care about is that when you do post, you take one post, that may have an opinion that you do not agree with and accuse the forum of being unfriendly and restrictive. There are quite a lot of pro's on this forum, and they are entitled to have an opinion about news media paying for their material to fill their pages, I personally think that they should. It may also be that if and when you submit, the small print could give the licence to use your pictures as they see fit.
You say that you will not be posting again and that you have better things to do with your time. That's sad!!! can I suggest in stead that you reel yourself in and take part in the plenty of FRIENDLY and HELPFUL sections with the super people that participate in them......In all walks of life we do not agree all the time but life's to short

Actually I don't consider that it's myself who should be reeling in. Maybe we should set up a Welfare Fund on here so everyone can make a small contribution for the poor downtrodden Pros, all at their wits end, destitute, obviously due to the Guardian not offering to pay for their butterfly photos. I would gladly contribute towards a mug of hot chocolate for them before they wander off to the nearest Hostel for the night.

Now you've so kindly informed me that there a quite a few Pros on this forum I feel even more inclined not to repeat this experience any time soon so I guess I should be grateful for you telling me. I had assumed this forum was populated with people who had a genuine interest in photography and not by any who's sole interest seems to concentrate on making money from a few photos of butterflies.

To those who submitted photos , or expressed unbiased opinions for or against the project. I thank you !

Kindest regards to you Charly and if you need a mug of hot chocolate, just let me know. :)

John
 
Please take your mug of hot chocolate down to your local food bank it will make you feel a whole lot better, social conscience and all. I know who you are, and please take your controlling mindset rabble rousing crusade to the ignore bin. :mooning::mooning:.........God that made me feel good :wave:
 
Please take your mug of hot chocolate down to your local food bank it will make you feel a whole lot better, social conscience and all. I know who you are, and please take your controlling mindset rabble rousing crusade to the ignore bin. :mooning::mooning:.........God that made me feel good :wave:
Wow mindless ramblings make you feel good!

I'm not sure exactly what 'controlling mindset rabble rousing crusade' the OP is on but I must have missed it in his posts. Perhaps its too subtle for me?

I had assumed this forum was populated with people who had a genuine interest in photography and not by any who's sole interest seems to concentrate on making money from a few photos of butterflies.

This. Lets not forget, this isn't the PTP as in Professional Talk Photography, this is a general forum for photographers.
 
Wow mindless ramblings make you feel good!

I'm not sure exactly what 'controlling mindset rabble rousing crusade' the OP is on but I must have missed it in his posts. Perhaps its too subtle for me?



This. Lets not forget, this isn't the PTP as in Professional Talk Photography, this is a general forum for photographers.

To be fair to the Pros, in the general forums it's not actually them who usually complain! It's the sycophants mainly.
 
There are two different things in the article.

On one side, there's the "big butterfly count". They have a website and they DON'T REQUIRE ANY PHOTOS of butterflies for the count. If you go to the website and submit the info they've asked, you'll be helping. Again, No photos needed...

On the other side, there's the newspaper, that for no reason related to the event, is asking for free photos.... They have advertising on the website and sell the print version. They are a business making a profit out of free content.

And just FYI, one photo of a butterfly on getty images, for editorial use and medium resolution (1024 x 683 px) is selling at £275. Even when paid, they still have to give credit to the photographer.

So when you hit that submit button, remember you're giving £300 to £500 to the newspaper, depending on the resolution. ;)
 
I can understand the working photographers being annoyed by hobbyists giving their work away. On the other hand, there's no reason to why hobbyists shouldn't give their pictures away if they wish to. Just a good case for live and let live.
 
The asking price of any item, photo or otherwise is not relevant. The only thing that has relevance is what anyone will actually pay for it. If you seriously think anyone will pay £275 for any of my butterfly photos I'll turn Pro immediately. :) Hang on ......... I can't .......... I'd lose my pension !
 
The asking price of any item, photo or otherwise is not relevant. The only thing that has relevance is what anyone will actually pay for it. If you seriously think anyone will pay £275 for any of my butterfly photos I'll turn Pro immediately. :) Hang on ......... I can't .......... I'd lose my pension !
Newspapers do pay for it. They've always paid for it... Unless you send it for free.
 
I happen to have an interest in the welfare of UK butterflies and mistakenly thought others here may feel the same way. You are correct in stating it is a long time since my last post here but when I joined, I did receive a warm welcome. The reasons for not posting since are personal and frankly none of your business. Unfortunately for me, I did not realise this had become such an unfriendly restrictive forum so will not be posting again.
I hope you change your mind and come back.

Ah! I see you have :D Good :D Don't let the odd negative post put you off :D
 
If the newspaper isn't making a profit, it is because the money isn't being well spent. Every time you visit the site, they get paid. So, who gets the advertising money if it isn't the people creating the content and the newspaper isn't making a profit?
That isn't what I said.
To be more clear, The Guardian is currently forecast to end the year with an operating loss of £90m. They are not making a profit.
 
That isn't what I said.
To be more clear, The Guardian is currently forecast to end the year with an operating loss of £90m. They are not making a profit.

Again... They have advertising on the website. That advertising generates money. Where is that money going? If it's not making a profit is because someone is getting a big pay check every month...
 
Lots of people decide to give away things of value for free, sometimes competing with commercial interests. Right now we're all reading this website courtesy of the Linux system that hosts it, and many of us are viewing it on Linux-based Android devices. Linux, of course, was essentially crowdsourced, and many of the contributors didn't get a penny from anyone for writing the code. Is this a good thing, or should we all be ashamed for taking bread out of the mouths of the children of those hardworking professional programmers at Microsoft and Apple? Anywhere you post images online is going to be making money for someone, usually by selling adverts. Yes, the Guardian gets some page impressions from your content, though a few amateur butterfly pictures on a community section of the website aren't exactly clickbait and don't directly compete with pro work - the point is to show readers' pictures, not stock images. The Guardian itself provides vast quantities of (mostly) high quality content without a paywall. It's owned by a trust, founded on a large donation, and doesn't have a proprietor or shareholders to satisfy - the profits, if there ever are any (they are making large losses at the moment) would be ploughed back into journalism. And it's a valuable counterweight to the relentlessly right-wing press that helped bring us, amongst other things, the joys of Brexit. If you want to make a profit running a print and open access online newspaper in the Internet age, you really need to run a trashy, spite-filled rag like the Mail or the Express.
 
Well well at least one little furry thing has come out of the woodwork.
 
Rather hostile reaction. I submitted a few of mine, I never expected to make money from them when I took them, so contributing to this will not adversely affect me.
I would be quite flattered, in fact, should they choose any of them to publish.

The charity doing the Butterfly count have not requested photographs (fact) they have requested that you send in sightings and locations of Butterfly's. They even offer identification and a chart download to submit your sightings. Both free of Charge

The Guardian however invite you to submit your photographic contribution by there community button. If you submitted your pictures this way I hope you read section 6 of the terms of use. I would suggest any photographer amateur or pro read the terms of use before you submit. I could have cut and paste section six but its not allowed. Basically it says that you own the copyright but give unfettered ROYALTY FREE rights for themselves and any third party to use you images through any medium they choose. Can you imagine the image bank if a couple of thousand images are submitted.

I intend to Take part in the count and by my own choice make a small donation to the charity.
 
Back
Top