The new Sony A9 - What are your thoughts

[Eloise]

- 20fps - I think the point is that it's without any blackout, a key thing to highlight as it's a fundamental change from DSLRs. Regardless of most of our needs, the option of more FPS is always welcome. Once upon a time people were saying that about 8fps.

- 1/32,000 - As a previous X-T1 owner with electronic shutter I'd never turn down ever faster shutter speeds, I found it genuinely useful even though it was quite limited on the Fuji. There are f0.95 lenses available for FE mount, wide open in bright sunshine will become an option without the need for filters.

Accept your point on those two.

- 5 stop stabilisation - Why not? I've used the a7ii enough to know it's very useful, the a9 isn't a dedicated long lens camera.

Not dedicated, but they are targeting it at the sports market so the stabilisation is less useful.

- Stacked CMOS - A crucial component that helps bring these things together, 1,32000 electronic shutter, 20fps, AF/AE calculations at 60fps with an uninterrupted live feed through the EVF. That's game-changing insane, techno-babble or not.

That's WHY it's techno babble. All the things above are important and are features. The "stacked CMOS" is not a feature, it's a requirement to obtain the features. It's like Rolls Royce never tell you the power of a car in its headlines ... all that's important is that it has enough.

The technology could genuinely change the way people shoot, particularly the fact it's silent whilst doing all that. There are times when photographs simply cannot be taken that suddenly can with this, without any significant penalty from not using a DSLR.

I still think it's too early for this stuff to really take hold, Sony need to build up their Pro support and niche glass to really break through (and potentially even bigger weather sealed bodies). But that stuff just takes time, the tech is now here.

You are right that the technology *could* be a game changer, but it's nothing without the things the specs don't tell you ... the background support, the handling, the response time, how it actually focuses in real world conditions, etc.

10-15 years ago I would have been excited about the technology, these days I feel the technology is just a means to an end and there are many more abstract things which define if a camera is good ... or even a game changer!

 

[Alastair]

Don't see how it's click bait, have out out thr blog post as it could help bring traffic to website as its a hot topic

Of course it's clickbait, you're a poacher amongst poachers here..no point denying throwing out a preview of a camera you've never seen/touched isn't purely done to drive traffic.

 

[jonneymendoza]

Heads up. Apparently when using am adapter for using none e mount lenses. It goes down to 10fps

 

[Raymond Lin]

Heads up. Apparently when using am adapter for using none e mount lenses. It goes down to 10fps

That's not my concern, 10fps is plenty for most situations. It's how many of those will track and focus accurately. Until their lens line up matches of that of Canon/Nikon, this will be the question that will get asked constantly.

 

[Eloise]

Heads up. Apparently when using am adapter for using none e mount lenses. It goes down to 10fps

Does it make a difference what adaptor? Are the (for example) Sigma lenses used with Sigma adaptor seen as native?

 

[twist]

Does it make a difference what adaptor? Are the (for example) Sigma lenses used with Sigma adaptor seen as native?

Err probably anything adapted.... is adapted.

 

[jonneymendoza]

Does it make a difference what adaptor? Are the (for example) Sigma lenses used with Sigma adaptor seen as native?

We have to wait for them to update the firmware. A guy was testing out this camera back in January and two weeks ago and slapped on a 400mm f4 do lens and it focuses just like a Canon body would but he could not shoot faster than 10fps in af mode. In manual mode he can or whenever he overrided the af using the manual ring on the lens. Let me dig up the video. It's on YouTube and is 47min long though. Well worth the listen

 

[ukaskew]

I think the 10fps is specifically referred to the LA-EA3 with Sony A Mount glass. Anything else is only vaguely officially supported so I can't imagine there will be any guarantees in that respect.

 

[twist]

We have to wait for them to update the firmware. A guy was testing out this camera back in January and two weeks ago and slapped on a 400mm f4 do lens and it focuses just like a Canon body would...

Didn't all the initial testers say the same thing about the a7rii and canon glass? Except that wasn't true was it.

Let's wait and see.

 

[Raymond Lin]

I'd say Sony is about a decade behind Canon or Nikon, and to be honest, nobody has a line up like Canon, not even Nikon and there will be glass that I would miss if I were to go over to Sony.

For example, I don't ever think Sony will ever make a

85/1.2
50/1.2
65mm MP-E

It will be years before they make

Tilt Shift lenses

Also, not that I would use it but Sony will never make a 1200mm/5.6 or a 200mm/1.8 or a 50/1.0. I know Canon don't make these anymore, but they can and they have and it is on the current mount, almost an exercise of "What we can do !", similarly to what Sony are doing with their bodies.

And even if Sony do start making more and more lenses on an unprecedented scale, Canon are not just going to sit and wait, they would have made improvements and other lenses at the same time. I also go by the motto that invest in glass first, 1 body can change the whole landscape but it will take a basket of lenses to change a system.

Canon can release a new body like the A9 in 3-5 years' time, that seems to be an average time for R&D to release a pro body, but I can't see Sony releases a lens line up of Canon in 5 years.

I would like an A9 body with native lens like the 50/1.0 on the end of it but that will never happen.

 

[snerkler]

Specs look impressive but I'll wait until there's been some real hands on testing. Reading initial reports it's much bigger than the A7's so it's not going to be far off DSLR size so the whole idea of a compact system is out of the water. I'll be interested to see what the ergonomics are like, the A7's aren't very nice to hold imo.

All that being said it does sound like a bit of a game changer, on paper at least. But all this does is make me worry for Nikon even more

 

[ABTog]

Specs look impressive but I'll wait until there's been some real hands on testing. Reading initial reports it's much bigger than the A7's so it's not going to be far off DSLR size so the whole idea of a compact system is out of the water. I'll be interested to see what the ergonomics are like, the A7's aren't very nice to hold imo.

All that being said it does sound like a bit of a game changer, on paper at least. But all this does is make me worry for Nikon even more

Erm. Size wise it's apparently the same as the A7RII.
See here comparison from Jason Lanier.
View: https://www.instagram.com/p/BTG03wUDVnH/


(Obviously it'll be heavier and bigger if you add a battery grip)

 

[snerkler]

Erm. Size wise it's apparently the same as the A7RII.
See here comparison from Jason Lanier.
View: https://www.instagram.com/p/BTG03wUDVnH/


(Obviously it'll be heavier and bigger if you add a battery grip)

Ahh right, I've read a bad article then

 

[Eloise]

Erm. Size wise it's apparently the same as the A7RII.
See here comparison from Jason Lanier.
View: https://www.instagram.com/p/BTG03wUDVnH/


(Obviously it'll be heavier and bigger if you add a battery grip)

So yes, by the time you add a lens it's pretty much the same size as a full frame DSLR

 

[jonneymendoza]

Didn't all the initial testers say the same thing about the a7rii and canon glass? Except that wasn't true was it.

Let's wait and see.

Yea let's wait and see. I don't think many said that. Many said it focuses like native in decent light below 200mm

 

[twist]

Yea let's wait and see. I don't think many said that. Many said it focuses like native in decent light below 200mm

No. Many said it. But it didn't and doesn't either.

 

[jonneymendoza]

I'd say Sony is about a decade behind Canon or Nikon, and to be honest, nobody has a line up like Canon, not even Nikon and there will be glass that I would miss if I were to go over to Sony.

For example, I don't ever think Sony will ever make a

85/1.2
50/1.2
65mm MP-E

It will be years before they make

Tilt Shift lenses

Also, not that I would use it but Sony will never make a 1200mm/5.6 or a 200mm/1.8 or a 50/1.0. I know Canon don't make these anymore, but they can and they have and it is on the current mount, almost an exercise of "What we can do !", similarly to what Sony are doing with their bodies.

And even if Sony do start making more and more lenses on an unprecedented scale, Canon are not just going to sit and wait, they would have made improvements and other lenses at the same time. I also go by the motto that invest in glass first, 1 body can change the whole landscape but it will take a basket of lenses to change a system.

Canon can release a new body like the A9 in 3-5 years' time, that seems to be an average time for R&D to release a pro body, but I can't see Sony releases a lens line up of Canon in 5 years.

I would like an A9 body with native lens like the 50/1.0 on the end of it but that will never happen.

Canon are actually about to discontinue the 85 1.2 with a 1.4. It's sad but canon seems to be getting rid of super wide open lenses

 

[Raymond Lin]

Canon are actually about to discontinue the 85 1.2 with a 1.4. It's sad but canon seems to be getting rid of super wide open lenses

I'm actually thinking about getting the 50L, just because.

 

[snerkler]

Canon are actually about to discontinue the 85 1.2 with a 1.4. It's sad but canon seems to be getting rid of super wide open lenses

Is there that much difference between F1.2 and F1.4 though? If they feel that they can make a sharper lens with more reliable AF and less CA's I'd certainly sacrifice the tiny bit of light gathering and DOF. That's a big 'if' though

 

[Raymond Lin]

Is there that much difference between F1.2 and F1.4 though? If they feel that they can make a sharper lens with more reliable AF and less CA's I'd certainly sacrifice the tiny bit of light gathering and DOF. That's a big 'if' though

The average joe won't know the difference, they think iPhone software fake bokeh looks great but every little counts.

It's like is there much difference between the 50/1.0 to the 50/1.2? And then now we are asking is there much difference between 1.2 to 1.4.

It all adds up.

 

[snerkler]

The average joe won't know the difference, they think iPhone software fake bokeh looks great but every little counts.

It's like is there much difference between the 50/1.0 to the 50/1.2? And then now we are asking is there much difference between 1.2 to 1.4.

It all adds up.

Yeah I get that. My point though was that there's little between F1.2 and F1.4 and 'if' they can make a much better lens at F1.4 surely this is worth the minor sacrifice.

 

[ukaskew]

the whole idea of a compact system is out of the water.

Lots of people were actually hoping for an even larger 'DSLR' sized body, in the hope that would mean big fast superteles on the horizon.

Mirrorless doesn't have to mean compact (although the a9 is light and small relative to anything remotely comparable), I think the other advantages of mirrorless have far exceeded just that being its USP now.

 

[snerkler]

Lots of people were actually hoping for an even larger 'DSLR' sized body, in the hope that would mean big fast superteles on the horizon.

Mirrorless doesn't have to mean compact (although the a9 is light and small relative to anything remotely comparable), I think the other advantages of mirrorless have far exceeded just that being its USP now.

I agree, mirrorless, or should I say A7's have moved in a different direction. It's just the proper term of compact system cameras is now misleading

This is clearly the future of photography now so I just hope that Canikon jump on board before it's too late and they become another Kodak. It would be nice for someone to bring out another FF mirrorless camera, one that doesn't have the ergonomics of a brick It's nice to see that Sony FINALLY have added direct AF point control. It's only taken 7 bodies

 

[Raymond Lin]

I agree, mirrorless, or should I say A7's have moved in a different direction. It's just the proper term of compact system cameras is now misleading

This is clearly the future of photography now so I just hope that Canikon jump on board before it's too late and they become another Kodak. It would be nice for someone to bring out another FF mirrorless camera, one that doesn't have the ergonomics of a brick It's nice to see that Sony FINALLY have added direct AF point control. It's only taken 7 bodies

Canon have jumped onboard with the M series, the M5 is pretty good actually. They just need to make a FF version now.

 

[snerkler]

Canon have jumped onboard with the M series, the M5 is pretty good actually. They just need to make a FF version now.

Ahh yes, I keep forgetting about the M series. I guess you could argue Nikon have with the J and V series, but they're a far cry from Sony, Olly, Fuji etc.

 

[ABTog]

Canon are actually about to discontinue the 85 1.2 with a 1.4. It's sad but canon seems to be getting rid of super wide open lenses

By all reports, the new Canon 85mm f1.4 L IS is not replacing the f1.2, they will both be available. The f1.4 will I guess be cheaper to compete with the Sigma 85 Art and the f1.2L will be the ultimate portrait lens.

 

[Eloise]

Ahh yes, I keep forgetting about the M series. I guess you could argue Nikon have with the J and V series, but they're a far cry from Sony, Olly, Fuji etc.

OT but... I think that's one of the frustrations with Nikon ... they have this quite good Mirrorless technology in the Nikon 1 series, if only they would scale it up to full frame!

Several of the "unique" functions of the A9 are in Nikon 1 albeit with a tiny sensor.

 

[Eloise]

Back to the A9 ... the killer feature which a DSLR will never be able to compete with is likely the silent shutter. I can imagine in a few years time that people like PGA will be banning anything but cameras with silent shutters.

 

[jonneymendoza]

Wex now taking pre orders. I'm tempted

 

[Riz_Guru]

Pre-order price confirmed as £4499 for the Sony A9 and £2499 for the new FE 100-400 GM.

Sony's trade-in pricing for the current A7 bodies is shocking in my opinion!

Trade-In Model Trade-In Value Trade-In Bonus
Sony Alpha a7 £320 £50
Sony Alpha a7R £400 £60
Sony Alpha a7S £400 £60
Sony Alpha a7 Mark II £600 £80
Sony Alpha a7R Mark II £1,300 £100
Sony Alpha a7S Mark II £1,300 £100

 

[snerkler]

£4499 UK launch price, not cheap but I guess if they're pitching it against the D5 and 1Dx-II then it was never going to be.

Edit: D'oh just beaten to it

 

[jonneymendoza]

Canon have jumped onboard with the M series, the M5 is pretty good actually. They just need to make a FF version now.

They have a shocking line up of lenses for that body though

 

[snerkler]

Back to the A9 ... the killer feature which a DSLR will never be able to compete with is likely the silent shutter. I can imagine in a few years time that people like PGA will be banning anything but cameras with silent shutters.

It sounds as though silent shutters still have the issue of rolling shutter as the A9 has tech to correct this in processing. Once they eliminate this altogether they will be "killer". That being said I still like to hear a shutter to know the shot's been taken, I find it a bit weird using silent mode on my Olly With the A9 it'll be even worse as there's no blackout so I'd be forever pressing playback to make sure it took the shot

 

[Riz_Guru]

I believe that future Sony and other mirrorless bodies could go down the route of completely removing the need for individual RAW files and start using the workflows consisting of 4k/6k/8k video files.
Sony are already at 20fps.... 24fps works for video (movies).
So you can just press the shutter, it starts recording and once you have your clip stop.
The clip is the then imported to your computer where you grab the RAW images from the clip.

 

[Kiwi Paul]

It sounds as though silent shutters still have the issue of rolling shutter as the A9 has tech to correct this in processing. Once they eliminate this altogether they will be "killer". That being said I still like to hear a shutter to know the shot's been taken, I find it a bit weird using silent mode on my Olly With the A9 it'll be even worse as there's no blackout so I'd be forever pressing playback to make sure it took the shot

Yeah but you have the option of various generated shutter sounds which can be turned on or off and set to various sound levels.

 

[Kiwi Paul]

I believe that future Sony and other mirrorless bodies could go down the route of completely removing the need for individual RAW files and start using the workflows consisting of 4k/6k/8k video files.
Sony are already at 20fps.... 24fps works for video (movies).
So you can just press the shutter, it starts recording and once you have your clip stop.
The clip is the then imported to your computer where you grab the RAW images from the clip.

Not really, RAW is well RAW, the individual 4K etc video clip files are processed in camera files so post processing these would be very limited.

 

[JJ!]

20fps is insane. Imagine the number of files you have to go through if covering an entire sports event and how many cards you will need!

Its way way way out of anything I can afford anyway lol

 

[Riz_Guru]

Not really, RAW is well RAW, the individual 4K etc video clip files are processed in camera files so post processing these would be very limited.

I'm sure they could develop a codec to shoot RAW Video.....

 

[smr]

Wow. I thought 14fps was insane. GAME CHANGER.

 

[snerkler]

I believe that future Sony and other mirrorless bodies could go down the route of completely removing the need for individual RAW files and start using the workflows consisting of 4k/6k/8k video files.
Sony are already at 20fps.... 24fps works for video (movies).
So you can just press the shutter, it starts recording and once you have your clip stop.
The clip is the then imported to your computer where you grab the RAW images from the clip.

And another part of the art of photography would be gone.