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  3. It is with great sadness that we announce the passing of a long-standing member, Just Dave.

    Dave Barker was a member of Talk Photography for nearly 10 years, and was a prominent member for most of those.
    A very warm, friendly and enthusiastic member, he spent the largest portion of his time on TP welcoming and helping others.

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  1. snerkler

    snerkler

    Messages:
    8,483
    Edit My Images:
    No
    Unnecessary game changer imo. As JJ said, the number of files that you'll end up with and the storage space will just become crazy.
     
    Fuguru and stevelmx5 like this.
  2. snerkler

    snerkler

    Messages:
    8,483
    Edit My Images:
    No
    But then it's no longer a silent shutter :p
     
    Fuguru likes this.
  3. jonneymendoza

    jonneymendoza

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    3,523
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    No
    Many people probably said that when the original 1d came out?

    People also say that about mp. Remember the d800? Loads moaned about file sizes etc


    Also. You do know it's optional to shoot at that speed. You can shoot at medium or low fps or single shot.
     
    Last edited: Apr 21, 2017
  4. jonneymendoza

    jonneymendoza

    Messages:
    3,523
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    No
    No it won't. You still need to compose your shot. Get the right light. Angle etc etc. The camera doesn't do that for you
     
    Fuguru likes this.
  5. woof woof

    woof woof

    Messages:
    13,986
    Name:
    Alan
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    No
    One advantage of these little noises is that you can set them so low that in reality you're the only one who hears them and they're therefore useful as they tell you you've actually taken the shot which you might not be too sure of when shooting with a silent shutter. I don't bother, I just use the silent shutter.
     
    snerkler likes this.
  6. jonneymendoza

    jonneymendoza

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    3,523
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    No
    And less moving parts and less shutter shock vibration
     
  7. Eloise

    Eloise

    Messages:
    542
    Name:
    Eloise
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    Yes
    You're right you can shoot slower or even single shot ... but thats why it isn't a *GAME CHANGER*. A Game Changer is something which blows everything else away ... you have pretty much agreed with @snerkler that 20fps is more than you need; so all it is is headline boasting. Yes it has a purpose, but its not a game changer. Apart from the silent shutter; I'm failing to see much in the admittedly impressive spec's which will actually change significantly the photos which come from (its target market) of sports photographers who are using Nikon D5 or Canon 1DX II. It might be a game changer in terms of mirrorless cameras ... but thats not what people are claiming ... they are claiming its a game changer for CAMERAS.

    (PS. no one was saying about the frame rate of the original 1D as it was slower - iirc - than the film cameras of the day)

    I would suggest there is also a difference between MP and file sizes which can be handled by increasing the computer's power ... and being able to sort through many more photos is a factor of human endurance / human ability.
     
    snerkler likes this.
  8. jonneymendoza

    jonneymendoza

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    No
    i think the only game change is no blackout. even the 1dx has blackout.

    20fps is no game changer i agree.

    Anyways a pro sports or wildlife togger would only use the 20fps sparringly and take maybe 20-40 frames for a specific action shot they are trying to capture.

    lets see

    1. the 30ms lshutter lag time is on par or i think it was said to be even faster then a 1dx2?
    2. 20fps...

    these two things will require you to only do burst mode fir a second or two.

    There was a guy who tested out the camera in jan and two weeks ago and said that he was able to get the decisive moment in single shot mode as the shutter lag was soo minimal
     
    Last edited: Apr 21, 2017
    Gadget-Guy and Fuguru like this.
  9. woof woof

    woof woof

    Messages:
    13,986
    Name:
    Alan
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    No
    But you can get rolling shutter effect and banding under some artificial lighting so it's not all good. I've had several micro four third shots ruined by banding as I don't always remember to switch back to the mechanical shutter.
     
    Gadget-Guy and snerkler like this.
  10. woof woof

    woof woof

    Messages:
    13,986
    Name:
    Alan
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    No
    For no black out they must have some seriously fast electronics in the camera.
     
  11. Eloise

    Eloise

    Messages:
    542
    Name:
    Eloise
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    Yes
    I'm not sure thats a game changer either ... but then I'm not a sports photographer.

    But as I wrote earlier and think bares repeating...

    You are right that the technology *could* be a game changer, but it's nothing without the things the specs don't tell you ... the background support, the handling, the response time, how it actually focuses in real world conditions, etc.

    10-15 years ago I would have been excited about the technology, these days I feel the technology is just a means to an end and there are many more abstract things which define if a camera is good ... or even a game changer!
     
  12. jonneymendoza

    jonneymendoza

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    No
    edit:

    here is the video. its 47min long though but the highlights are:

    1. 400mm DO mk2 canon lens works like a native lens on the A9.
    2. Using adapted lens such as the LA3? reduces the fps to 10fps
    3. Able to do a whole days shoot with two batteries(he used a batter grip and at the end of the day he only burned through one and a half batteries.
    4. Shutter Lag is tiny.


    View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TQnj4Pt8F6k
     
    Fuguru likes this.
  13. Fuguru

    Fuguru

    Messages:
    2,382
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    Riz
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    No
    It is, just like watching a movie through the viewfinder..... :D
     
  14. Eloise

    Eloise

    Messages:
    542
    Name:
    Eloise
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    Yes
    Those two statements (seam) like a contradiction ...
     
  15. jonneymendoza

    jonneymendoza

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    No
    the youtube link i sent u is from a Sports photographer who tells you how no blackout is a game changer for sports pros.

    Here are a few things to respond to your post above:
    1. background support(you mean after sale support? they have opened two Sony pro camera centres in America and i imagine more to come?)
    2. The handling is fine with a batter grip imo even with long lenses(tested my a7r2 with 100-400 canon lens)
    3. The spec sheets have indicated the response times? 30ms i believe it was for shutter lag.
    4.Focusing on real world conditions is yet to be tested but the A7r2 with native lenses do focus 85% as fast as a 1dx2.They are more accurate too as it requires no MF adjustments
     
  16. jonneymendoza

    jonneymendoza

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    No
    How?

    FPS speed has no relation to AF speed and accuracy. They are two seperate things.

    He did not specify what FPS he was shooting though on the 400MM DO but he was shooting in AF-C mode and it tracked and focus just as fast as native apparently.

    The way Sony advances its AF system, i dont think many would be surprised if it did focus as fast and accurate as a 1dx2? the A7r2 a 2 year old camera is not far off that. i say 70% when shooting with a canon lens below 200mm..

    My canon 24-70 f2.8 lens works just as good on my a7r2 to a 5d4!! This is what stopped me for getting the native G master lens lol
     
  17. Eloise

    Eloise

    Messages:
    542
    Name:
    Eloise
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    Yes
    I was thinking more of the 1600 lenses and 78 technical staff Canon sent to the Rio Olympics...
    [​IMG]
     
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  18. Kiwi Paul

    Kiwi Paul

    Messages:
    331
    Name:
    Paul
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    Yes
    The rolling shutter effect is due to the time takes for the sensor to be sequentially read, the new sensor is claimed to be 20x faster, if it is then rolling shutter effect will be reduced considerably.
     
    snerkler likes this.
  19. Kiwi Paul

    Kiwi Paul

    Messages:
    331
    Name:
    Paul
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    Yes
    I can't even to begin to think how many thousands of $$$$$$$ of camera gear are in that room.
     
  20. Eloise

    Eloise

    Messages:
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    Eloise
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    Yes
    Thats what I said "seams" like a contradiction ... you mean the Canon focuses the same as a native lens, but adapted lenses (which would include a Canon lens) is limited to 10fps.

    70% of the focus ability of a Canon on the A7r2 is a LONG way off (IMO). Its not the 70 or even 90% of the best thats hard to get, its the final few percent.

    Please don't get me wrong ... I'm not suggesting the A9 isn't good or that Nikon/Canon are better ... I just hate all the gushing we get online before almost anyone has used it. I also doubt the "there are no negatives" attitude (but thats just my curmudgeonly attitude).
     
  21. jonneymendoza

    jonneymendoza

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    No
    Sony made a statement a whole back saying they aim to be a big presents in the next olympics .

    this could mean a few things:

    1. have the camera capable for sports(A9)
    2. Have lenses capable for sports(almost there, the 100-400 is a good start)
    3. Have a pro customer service centres(2 are being opened in America within the next month or two?)

    If they can release 400, 500 and 600mm primes within the next 3 years plus have more Pro customer services as well as a a Sony technical staff centre in Tokyo, then were good to go? Doable within the next 3 years.

    Dont you want them to succed?

    if they succed and the above they will create competion and competion is healthy for us.

    Right now its just canon and Nikon. Nikon seem to be in trouble if news of them making losses and cuts is to be believed. we need more competition
     
  22. stevelmx5

    stevelmx5

    Messages:
    6,489
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    Steve
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    No
    It's ok, just wait for the A9R and A9S to be released and everyone will be saying the A9 is a terrible camera ;0)
     
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  23. jonneymendoza

    jonneymendoza

    Messages:
    3,523
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    No
    My scale may differ from yours hehe

    i understand about gushing over stuff that hasnt been released yet.

    But im a kid inside and whenever some new tech comes i get excited lol.

    Lets wait and see
     
  24. Fuguru

    Fuguru

    Messages:
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    Riz
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    No
    Me too, going back to Sony would be a pointless GAS exercise and a very costly one.
    I don't even use my Fuji XT-2 to its abilities and that has 11 fps! :D
     
    jonneymendoza likes this.
  25. jonneymendoza

    jonneymendoza

    Messages:
    3,523
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    No
    Well here is the A9r specs

    a9r:
    – 42mp BSI
    – 400 AF points on the entire frame
    – 8 fps Buffer 40 RAW
    – ISO: 50 – 102400
    – Shutter speed: 30″-32000
    – dual XQD slot
    – weather sealed

    Wont be far off that.

    Here was the a9 rumour specs

    a9:
    – 24 mp (new sensor)
    – 400 AF points on the entire frame
    – 14 fps
    – ISO 50-204800
    – Shutter speed: 30″-32000
    – dual XQD slot
     
  26. Eloise

    Eloise

    Messages:
    542
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    Eloise
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    Yes
    A statement of desire and the ability to do it and make an impression is a lot different.

    Yes
    Its more a dipping their foot in the pool ... as someone said above ... what are they going to be able to release in the next 2 to 2 1/2 years
    You realise the next Olympics is in Tokyo not America don't you? Okay the NEXT Olympics is in South Korea but who's going to want to take a Sony into the winter weather :) (and yes that was meant to be a joke)

    IF ... yes IF.

    I do want them to succeed ... I just aren't blind to the issues they face. The camera may be great ... but there is a lot more to them making a success.

    Give Nikon time ... if the losses (which weren't in the camera division really and wasn't actually loosing MONEY) and cuts are a real reorganisation; then what comes out the end could make it a good thing.
     
    Last edited: Apr 21, 2017
  27. stevelmx5

    stevelmx5

    Messages:
    6,489
    Name:
    Steve
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    No
    ^^This

    I get that GAS is a difficult thing to ignore but you are the prime example of someone who bought the best of everything off the shelf then found that you didn't need it and felt conscious of the amount of cash you were carrying around your neck.

    Obviously we can all spend our money how we like but dropping £4500 on an A9 because it's the shiny new toy seems like a waste of £4500 to me personally.
     
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  28. Eloise

    Eloise

    Messages:
    542
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    Eloise
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    Yes
    Thats what I'm saying!
     
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  29. Eloise

    Eloise

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    542
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    Eloise
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    Yes
    Oh I'm watching the video now ... apparently after sale support isn't going to matter because it isn't going to break ... yeah right! No moving parts = less repairs ... I guess he's never used a computer!! :)
     
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  30. jonneymendoza

    jonneymendoza

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    3,523
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    No
    Its only a waste of money if its sitting in your shelf collecting dust but if you use it alot then how is it a waste of money?

    Many of us would buy various overpriced lenses and cameras and i reckon we would be using them. Maybe not all of its features but we would still be using them!

    Lifes too short as well. enjoy it
     
  31. stevelmx5

    stevelmx5

    Messages:
    6,489
    Name:
    Steve
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    No
    Like I say, we can all spend our money how we like but getting the result isn't always about the kit we use. Have fun.
     
  32. jonneymendoza

    jonneymendoza

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    No
    LOL.

    IMO Less moving parts just means less components that would get worn down due to usage. Circuit boards dont generally get warned down unless they output a lot of heat on it.
     
  33. amandaNYY

    amandaNYY

    Messages:
    43
    Name:
    Amanda
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    No
    this seems like heaven
     
  34. jonneymendoza

    jonneymendoza

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    No
    yup i know. but using kit you enjoy sometimes gives you the motivation to capture some magical stuff.

    Would you feel more motivated using your smartphone to or your mirrorless camera?

    For me i like mirorrless/dslr as the feeling you get holding a camera, the shutter, the ergonomics, the lenses and general excitement gives me great pleasure .

    Dont forget, photography is also a mind game. Its not all about light and your eye. You need a good mindset to take good pictures.

    A good mindset could come to these things below:

    1. Using gear you enjoy handling and working with
    2. Being in a new place or capturing a subject or new style of shooting.
    3. Having a good mindset prior to shooting(haing a positive mind in life etc)
     
  35. Eloise

    Eloise

    Messages:
    542
    Name:
    Eloise
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    Yes
    +1

    I know that I think a lot different about photography if I'm just using my iPhone (which does take pretty good photos). 2 & 3 can happen anytime and anywhere; but without 1; 2 & 3 have to be more intense feelings to get a good photo.

    I've started to argue that equipment matters ... but not because a ILC takes a better photo, but because people (both the photographer and the subject) react differently. That different reaction can mean that a iPhone (other models of phone device can be equally as effective) can in some situations take a better photo even.
     
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  36. Fuguru

    Fuguru

    Messages:
    2,382
    Name:
    Riz
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    No
    :fuji:
     
  37. niko

    niko

    Messages:
    1,407
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    nik
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    No
    from what ive seen of your posts your very Nikon biased and dislike mirror less, so perhaps your the last person who will get excited about this camera:p, mind you with Nikons record on shutters made from oil and butter perhaps the Sony will prove relatively reliable:eek::D
     
    ancient_mariner likes this.
  38. Eloise

    Eloise

    Messages:
    542
    Name:
    Eloise
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    Yes
    I'm a Nikon shooter yes ... but in the past I've owned Canon and Minolta digital. When buying back into digital cameras I tried the whole range. I don't like EVFs ... I don't get why everyone is so excited about them ... I prefer the view finder of my D3200 to the view finder of a Sony A7. I just have found more negatives from mirrorless cameras I have tried and find DSLRs a more complete, rounded option. I should add that I have zero interest in video so perhaps that is part of it too.

    Things like IBS I question the advantage over in lens VR for example. Yes IBS is great and offers 5 stop advantage (or whatever) with a 50mm lens. But what about a 100mm lens ... a 400mm lens. IBS is a supplement to VR not an alternative (IMO). But thats not the way of internet reporting these days ... we don't say "yes its good BUT in limited situations" ... I don't know weather thats because the bloggers don't understand the limitations or just like to gush over the positives. (I'm just watching some videos on the A9 at the moment so some of my comments are general rather than specifically in response to comments here). Its all the people just repeating Sony's press release about becoming #2 in Full Frame sales without looking and questioning it. Its the world we live in of selective facts and alternative truths.

    In defence of my views on mirrorless ... I do like the little Olympus but I can't afford to buy into two camera systems.

    Oh and if you didn't realise though ... that post was intended as a joke!

    (PS. I don't get excited about any technology releases these days - when I get one in my hands in a store then I might get excited)
     
  39. niko

    niko

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    1,407
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    nik
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    No
    :Dmy post was just leg pulling.
    innovation is great, will stop the general decline in camera sales hopefully, thats why it excites me. dslrs sales are dropping apart from the pro end.
    i love dslrs but they are disappearing and unfortunately I cant see that changing. i love mirror less and mirrored-hell I still shoot 35mm film and 120mm film but i realize its not the way things are now. small increases in sales of old tech are blips in the overall decline.
    as far as ibs is concerned ive only used it with upto 300mm-so 600mm eqv and it works very well, i can hand hold my little oly way slower speeds than i could my 5dmk111
     
    Last edited: Apr 21, 2017
  40. George

    George Chasseur Haggis extraordinaire

    Messages:
    3,445
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    Yes
    I think this is, on paper, a very interesting development and I suspect in a few years mirrorless bodies will become the norm however as a lifelong Canon user I'd have to be very convinced of the benefits to consider a move, not least of all as others have said, is the lack of long lenses, although the 100-400 does answer that need to a certain extent.

    For me the biggest advantage is the almost silent operation, I've just spent a month in the Mara with a colleague shooting with a D5, and his bodies at 12 fps and mine at 14 fps do make a heck of a noise, we had to stay well clear of the video shooters!!

    However the AF performance is absolutely the key as far as I'm concerned and we won't know about that till real life stories come out.

    For me, I've wanted improvements from every body I've had until the 1Dx mk2, if there are OOF shots it's down to me not the body and so unless I'd get the same performance from another body of any make, I wouldn't change, and I reckon that'll be the main test if they (Sony) hope to get in to the sports and wildlife market.

    I await real world tests with interest!!

    George.
     
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