The Purpose of Photography - A rant!

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#1
For a long time I wanted to find a forum on motor sport photography but had no luck. Eventually however, I found this site. But I have to say, having spent some time looking through each thread and leaving the occasional comment, I am a little disappointed.

As far as I can see, the majority of threads consist of someone posting several sub standard, 'stock' images at best, which show a sharp image of a car on track but show little thought towards composition, foreground, background, lighting, colours, style etc ........ followed by comment after comment saying Great set!!!

Anyone can take a camera to a track (as you will all know it seems pretty much everyone does these days) and press the shutter when a car passes by! For me, it seems that for the majority of posts on here, this is all people are doing! Photography is about more than this, it's not just about pressing the shutter when a car passes. Sports photography is a thinking man's game, it isn't just a reactionary thing!

What are people trying to achieve with their photography? What is the purpose of them taking photographs? I know for most people this is just a hobby, but they are posting on a forum asking for critique so they obviously want to improve, so I think we need to stop telling people they have a great image, when really all they have is a snapshot!

If you want to improve, think about what you are trying to say with your photography. What feeling are you trying to give/represent? Think in advance of the image you are trying to create. Shoot from different angles. Shoot at lower shutter speeds, and by low I mean low!! Think about composition. Think about your surroundings and how you can use them in your image. Think about how you can take advantage of the light. Look for unusual viewpoints! Take an image that no one else is taking! Take risks! Experiment!

Don't get me wrong, I am not saying every one on this forum is doing this. There are people who are taking very good photographs and who stand out. Off the top of my head Gary Parravani and 'Rally Captures' are both very good and it is clear in their photography that they are putting more thought and thinking more creatively about the images they are taking, hence why I can remember their names..... because their photography stands out as a result.

If people want to genuinely improve, and be taken seriously for their photography, and this site being taken seriously as a photography forum, then we should follow their lead!
 
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Richard
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#2
Chris - don't think this was so much as a rant but just some wise words of advice.

Time to re- focus (literally as well)!!
 
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David Williams
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#3
(y)

Too many pictures of racing cars, not cars racing.

I do think though that a lot of people are just pleased to get a sharp shot of a moving object to start with.

It takes a lot of practice and dedication (and a trackside pass helps no end) to produce very good motorsport images.

The only person on here who I can think has shown us his journey in motorsport photography is Matt Sayle.

David
 
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David
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#4
If people want to genuinely improve, and be taken seriously for their photography, and this site being taken seriously as a photography forum, then we should follow their lead!
I've long since become very guarded with my critique in this forum, as serious critique is often met with a highly defensive backlash if not delivered with care.

I've long since arrived at the opinion that the majority of users in this forum don't have the attitude to photography that you are displaying in your post, and you either have to accept that, or leave I suppose. Some do... don't get me wrong.. there are some seriously rightly screwed on heads in here... and ironically, those are the ones I have the most heated debates with - probably because they can back up their arguments with something worthy of debating. Mostly though... real critique.. critique that questions the very reason for even taking the image in the first place, doesn't go down well, and I've mainly stopped giving it in this forum. I comment on technical matters mainly now (although not often in this sub-forum).

Despite this, I still like being here. I love debate, and I there are some people in here who deliver the goods and keep me on my toes.

Stick around... this forum needs more people who ask such fundamental questions and have such opinions.
 
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#5
As a hobbys shooting there a number of thoughts going through my mind.

#1 Who are my "clients"
These are the drivers who mostly want clear sharp pictures of them selves.
If there are no other cars around it is very difficult to show competition.
Sometimes the light works and you can get a bit "arty".

#1

#29 Wes Dayton 1949 MG TC special. by dicktay2000, on Flickr

#2 After you have got the clear sharp "standard" pics then you can expermiment.
Same car as #1 - Overcasts day

Uploaded for a tutorial. by dicktay2000, on Flickr


#2 If I am shooting for myself, and sometimes the drivers love these, it is.
1 Competition - that is cars close together and racing.
2 Moments - not just a standard portrait - the cars are doing something.
3 Light - On the normal bright sunny cloudless days ( I live in Australia) all you can do is basically follow the light and hope the event runs to about dusk (they mostly start at 9am) when the light picks up. If it is cloudy that is great as you can shoot in any direction as in example #2 above where you can never normally shoot from that spot. If it is raining it is even better.

#3 A moment + a little competition, but on an overcast rainy day.

Pushing it by dicktay2000, on Flickr

#4 A moment + lighting but no competition. Shot in the late afternoon.

Porsche Popping a Windscreen (1) by dicktay2000, on Flickr

#5 Competition + rain, but overcast lighting.

Porches practicing. by dicktay2000, on Flickr

#6 Lighting only, this is drifting, a single car event.

Last practice. by dicktay2000, on Flickr

So yes once you have got what clients (drivers, friends, editors etc) want then you start to experment however it is very difficult to get the 3 elements comming together.
Also keep in mind the "quality" of a final image can be very subjective.
 
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Andrew
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#6
For a long time I wanted to find a forum on motor sport photography but had no luck. Eventually however, I found this site. But I have to say, having spent some time looking through each thread and leaving the occasional comment, I am a little disappointed.

To make any real money out of motorsport photography , unfortunately it is not about creativity but rather about what sells , I have seen your website and although I can see what you are trying to do in the creative sense , the majority of prospective clients are more conservative in their requirements , and to make real any money out of it you need to consider what sells rather than the more creative side , the more creative motorsport photography can be added to your portfolio along side the more marketable shots which would be more likely to create interest in the more creative shots than just having a portfolio of images portraying motion and motion blur.
I do however think that there is a place for creative motorsport photography but there needs to be a balance between creativity and marketability if you want to go anywhere with it , this is a balance almost all professional photographers have to put up with .
 
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Mike
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#7
Andrew makes some good points. What sells is quite often much more conservative than artistic and creative photography. If your goal as a pro is to sell as many images to as wide an audience as possible then sharply focussed static or panned images are going to be in the majority. There are a small handful of publications that would select your style of images above those you disparage let alone competitors at a track day. If I look at the Sutton Images website that is what I'm expecting to sell to the media.

Outside of the pro world most people enjoy photography as a hobby. This is an open forum - no skill level, kit level, aspirational level as a barrier. So as a hobby people will have different levels of aspiration for their work, and for the kind of feedback they will get from a critique.

For some that might be a sharp, correctly exposed image & someone to say "nice shot". That might be the pinnacle of years of trial, error, and effort. They might well be a casual spectator, with no privileged access, or the ability/mobility to seek out an amazing part of the track. And IMVHO there is nothing wrong with that.

It might be a slightly more creative panned sharp image, maybe with some good light, and maybe with an interesting background. I would suggest that across all genres of photography the level of artistic/interpretive photography you describe isn't either the main aim, or within the majorities capabilities. I'd also suggest that your focus for motorsport photography isn't necessarily considered to be the right and only style.

There is no reason why everyone *should* shoot like you - no more than I should have to photograph water droplets and wire wool because I have a logon to this site.

If I want sufficient ball skills to kick a football around my garden with my son for enjoyment I wouldn't expect someone to tell me I need to be of the same talent as Lionel Messi to be able do so. That might be all I ever want, not even to play on the odd Sunday for the local pub team. Why should photography be any different to any other hobby ?

I'm sorry if you can't find a dedicated forum for the style of motorsport photography you want to shoot and see. But if there isn't one then it is either because there are a small number of people who want to keep it private (as there are for some of the social photography specialties), or because there are not enough people interested to make it viable. Either way you have to make the best of this one, or similar.
 
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Paul
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#8
For every great photographer out there, there is literally hundreds and hundreds of wannabes. And a large percentage of those wannabes really don't know what they are doing. As you say they simply just point and press.

But even if your skill level is just point and press you can still up your game a bit simply by altering the position you stand in, and getting your timings better.

There are of course great people out there, but you have to trawl through the mud to find the gems.

And unfortunately for yourself, sports photography, like landscape photrography probably has one of the greatest ratios of poor photographers to skilled photographers simply because its just so accessable to people and people simply enjoy it.

Landscaper have gotten even worse. Admitted there used to be a lot of talented amateur landscapers out there, producing great work. It may not have had a market, but it was good quality output.

But now so many of them have been seduced by the dark side of being lazy and photoshop it afterwards mentality, that the quality of those hobbyists has in general dropped dramatically.

Paul.
www.photographybyriddell.co.uk
 
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Andrew
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#9
As a relative newbie Im finding this thread quite interesting, but it is oh so easy to overlook that there are far more hobbyists than professionals or very serious amateurs around, and we frequent this forum for knowledge on how to improve, not necessarily how to showcase our work or sell our work.

I make lots of mistakes with my photography and processing BUT I want to learn because I enjoy experimenting with the various aspects of the hobby, if it gets to the point where I am being constantly criticised I would question my future and ask of myself is the negativity outweighing the enjoyment I get from the hobby.

If I put a photograph up, on occasion I might realise that it is not top notch BUT I am seeking guidance on how it can be improved, thats why Im asking - after all surely this is one of the important points for any forum / debate.

What I would prefer to see is if someone is prepared to criticise, then they must at least be prepared to offer up a solution or an example of their own work at the same time quantifying their criticism.

It seems to me there are a lot of people who will criticise and that is all they offer.

People want solutions, in particular the inexperienced, lets not forget, once upon a time we were all total novices in all aspects of life, let alone photography.
 
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#10
Whilst I can see where Chris is coming from, I don't actually agree with him. I have seen Chris's website and I have to say the photographs on the front page do nothing for me. That doesn't mean I think they are not good it is just that they don't engage me. On the other hand all of these do:
http://www.talkphotography.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=471949

I think we have to accept that we take photographs for different reasons and want different things from it.

If on the rear occasions when I do get to do Motorsport photography I am just as likely to be photographing the marshals and the general "atmosphere" as I am to be trying to get a good panning shot. (good to me may well be cr@p to everyone else, but as I am mainly photographing for myself, that's not a problem)
 
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Steven
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#11
I don't think the two are exclusive. In fact, I think what Chris is saying (think about the "why"...get the pictures no-one else is getting....) applies to all of photography at every level. Often the more "creative" image will be the better image, as long as it's not too "out there."

I also didn't get "be creative like me" from the post either. There are certainly some limitations to what one can expect to accomplish based upon gear/access, and that is going to be reflected by the pictures posted. But yeah, there IS a lot of "great shots" comments with very little critique for images that definitely could benefit from having done something different.
 
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Matty
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#12
An interesting thread. Props to the OP for raising the topic.
In essence I agree with the OP, since joining up on the forum, I have asked for critique on a number of my threads, and whilst I am happy to receive a comment of nice shot - to reinforce what I think works as a shot, I also find that the (rarer) constructive criticism I get, has made me question what I am trying to capture/convey in a shot, and where I have gone wrong, and this inspires me to go out and do better.
I think there's a fine line between the amount of constructive criticism that is given which can be taken on board, and where (especially on the internet) the criticism is taken in the wrong way and the dummy gets spat. I've seen this a lot on various sub-forums on here.
I think there is definitely a place for the positive reinforcement replies to a thread, but only where it is honest.
When giving crit, I always try and offer some pointers for improvement as well as drawing a positive to the shots in some way.

I shoot purely from a spectator point of view, and think RichardTaylors second point is a great one. My aim a lot of the time is to just come home with a good record of the day, and try to improve on what I have shot before. However, being spectator side, and limited with reach, I often find it difficult to capture the "competition" of a race, and quite often find that the light is lacking, which rule out two of the components. So I am left with trying to capture a "moment" which may or may not arrive. Hardly maximising my chances for getting a "great" shot.
However, I feel that I have improved since joining this forum, therefore, something is working here. There are a lot of forum members whose pictures inspire me and make me want to get out and improve. I try and take any criticism on board and use it to do better, and i'm still glad with a good shot reply, but if they could also suggest where I could improve....then all the better.
 
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Colin
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#13
In order for people to progress I'm sure they need to take several poor shots and be given advise on improvement.

An also, its a hobby to many people and part of that hobby is sharing what they have seen.
 
OP
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Chris Gouge
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#14
Well I am glad that I have started an interesting debate..

I don't claim to be the best photographer in the world by any stretch of the imagination and I'm still learning, as all photographers constantly should be and as I said in my original post I know that for most people on here this is just a hobby, but people still need to think about the shots they are taking.

I think Matty and in particular Steven (sk66) have best understood the purpose of my post. Yes photography is subjective and I am not saying that everyone should do as I do but even if you want to achieve 'stock' like images, there is still a good way to do it and a bad way to do it and it is still just as important to think about composition and everything else.

I agree with 'Munch', the photographs in the thread he has linked by Ben Gilbert are good. This is who I mentioned in my original post when I singled out 'Rally Captures' as being good. And even though 'Munch' does not like my images but does like Ben's, I am actually pleased as this kind of proves my point. Whatever your purpose is and whatever you are trying to say with your images, you still need to think about things. Ben's style of photography is clearly very different to mine but his photo's are good, not because you may prefer more 'marketable stock' images but because his images are well composed, his backgrounds are clean, his foregrounds are clean, the lighting is good......he has clearly thought about his photographs.....not just point and clicked!

Whereas I would like to see a few more different styles shown on this forum as there doesn't seem to be much variety, my main concern is that there are too many threads where people have taken mediocre at best photographs and then people have said 'Great set!' when clearly there are so many ways that person could have improved.

If you can see that someone has panned well, but has clearly not put much consideration into their background for example, rather than say what a great set of images they have, why not tell them that their panning technique is good but that they should perhaps look for a different part of the track to shoot at where the background might be more complimentary. This will encourage the person to improve and next time they visit the track they will put more thought and care into the shot they are trying to achieve.
 
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David
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#15
Just looked at your site and would like to say "great set" . . . . but I can't as for me they are **** - not to my taste, in fact some i.e the red bull F1 car where I'm not actually sure any of it is in focus, wouldn't have even made it off the card / camera.

Thankfully though we all like different things and it's good to see some variety it's not what the client usually wants. I tried a few of the so called arty / through the trees / slower than a slow thing shots last season and when a couple of the drivers asked if I could stop ******in about and take proper wall hanging shots (their words not mine) then I took another look and had to agree - they really do look rubbish and I wouldn't even think about printing them.

There are world renowned motorsport photographers out there who people rave about and do a style almost identical to yours - darren thingymabob is one, and as often as I look and try to like the style - they would still be binned so I guess I am one of the old farts who will stick to boring / basic photo's and let it pay it's way as it has done for the last few years.

.DAVID.

PS: and NO I am not trying to start a fight or be pedantic for the sake of it - just my view. look forward to seeing where this thread goes.
 
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Darren
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#16
I find that if I put a thread up and criticise my own photographs in the first post you're more likely to get some critique in the replies. I assume many people are worried they'll appear impolite despite the forum section being called "Feedback and Critique" and there being a specific forum for photos that you don't want to have criticised.

I'm sure someone (I think it was Desantnik but I can't find it now) started a "creative photos" thread in the motorsport forum and it didn't work out the way I think he hoped because what he wanted from the thread wasn't what most people either want to or are capable of producing.

But anyway the answer to your first question - what are people trying to achieve - is "different things to each other, over a very broad range".
 
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Chris Gouge
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#17
I respect your thoughts David. If you're taking photos for drivers on track days then you're right they generally don't want that type of thing. I however do not take photographs for drivers on track days, so again it depends on the purpose of your photography and who/what you are shooting for.

Also, I believe you are referring to Darren Heath, who is actually one of my biggest inspirations in photography. And to be fair, though I respect your view, he is way more successful and earns way more money than any of us..... he is proof that creativity does indeed sell!
 
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Vlad
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#18
I think there are several things to consider here Chris.

I've been looking at this thread during today trying to gather my thoughts.

Firstly, uber slow stuff isn't original...there are plenty of examples on here. Its not to everybodys taste, but equally its not that rare and unique either.

Darren H...have you seen his recent interview video? He says buck the trend, do your own thing. Copying his work....not original! You've kind if missed his "wisdom" if you do.

Also on Darren, his work works because of what? He uses iconic items (F1 cars) in famous landscapes. Doing the same without those two ingredients would be like doing a glamour shoot with Anne widicom...

On this forum we have a thread for original motorsport images...go take a look... Personally, there isn't much originality in this genre, just well framed, well exposed moments caught.

Everybody starts photography and quickly realises that the magic gold is originality. Sine time after that they realise that originality is pretty hard to achieve and that simply having a style and maybe a theme or a look is about as individual as you can get...if you even bother at all.

I don't think Tp motorsport folks are elitist, if you want an elitist hang out, this definitely isn't it. What it definitely is is a friendly, encouraging place where people genuinely do develop thanks to the praise, encouragement and sometimes knocks from the regulars.

Just chill out and enjoy the ride.

PS hope this isn't too badly spelt, I've typed this on my phone!
 
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Peter Rushworth
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#19
As most of us are doing this for fun rather than making a £ then it's down to what you like.

Each visit to a track I'll try and get something different, new angle, new position, close up, or distance view, but the problem most of us have is that we're shooting from the otherside of the fence, so the challenge is getting the shot sometimes because of all the obstructions (including the local pro standing in front of you mainly on foreign earth), safety fences, barriers, run off areas, standing on a ladder trying to balance with a camera and long lens, etc, lifes so much easier when you're a pro in that respect, but they have other pressures, ie getting the right shot for there client.

I can see where you are coming from, and from a quick look at your front gallery, you have 1 or 2 shots that stand out, but the rest just don't work for me. As most people have said, the arty shots just don't sell unless you've captured something unique.

I agree with you about your criticism of people's images, but as others have said, some people just can't take criticism, that why some of us don't comment on every thread although we still look at the images.

The other problem I see occasionally is the standard of advice from some people, especially for someone new to motorsports photography. The advice just isn't helpful or practical (basic camera settings, shutter speeds, panning, composition etc) and the some of the results are probably what you've seen posted because of bad advice.

But at the end of the day, the image is in the eye of the beholder, if they're happy with it, then any amount of constructive criticism to help them improve can and sometimes does fall on deaf ears.
 
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David
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#20
And to be fair, though I respect your view, he is way more successful and earns way more money than any of us..... he is proof that creativity does indeed sell!



^This.
 
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Vlad
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#21
But that's because of his choice of subject largely, less to do with anything else.

F1 is a global juggernaut, the opportunities to be a part of that very limited.

I'll think you will find NASA have trained more astronauts in the last twenty years than F1 have accredited photographers!
 
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Bazza
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#22
Chris you say in your post quote " What are people trying to achieve with their photography?" unquote.


Maybe some arn't trying to achieve anything but take photos as a record of what they have seen. Every photograph is a snapshot of time which can't be repeated.


Realspeed
 
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paul rogers
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#23
Would it not be boring if we all shoot exactly the same
Every picture identical no individual spirit.
Weather you want to make money or not some people do it just for pleasure
I not interested in the money
 
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David
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#24
But that's because of his choice of subject largely, less to do with anything else.

F1 is a global juggernaut, the opportunities to be a part of that very limited.

I'll think you will find NASA have trained more astronauts in the last twenty years than F1 have accredited photographers!
I'm not so sure.... I think this style of working would have been just as successful with any other motorsport. He may SELL more because it's F1, but if I had a choice of images from an event I was in... and the choice was the regular track side shots, and then something like this... I'd choose something like that... and I'd pay more to get it.

Sometimes people buy the regular stuff because that's all that's on offer.
 
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Vlad
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#25
He does shoot plenty of normal stuff too...that tells me that most want normal...

Which pretty much bears out what I and others have experienced too...

The whacky is fun to play with and always fun to punt out and see if anyone will use it...not many do. Keeps bored togs amused anyway :)

Darren got famous because the arty bunch at the guardian and the BBC decided to play ball...not sure its much wider than that.
 

Gary

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See above
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#26
Don't get me wrong, I am not saying every one on this forum is doing this. There are people who are taking very good photographs and who stand out. Off the top of my head Gary Parravani and 'Rally Captures' are both very good and it is clear in their photography that they are putting more thought and thinking more creatively about the images they are taking, hence why I can remember their names..... because their photography stands out as a result.
Thanks for the compliment.

Thing is, not everyone is taking their photography seriously because they dont want to.. and thats not a bad thing. If they want to enjoy what they do then thats all thats important. I enjoy doodling, but by drawings are rubbish and I dont care or want to get any better.

However, if they are working for a customer and producing shoddy, lazy work for them then thats a different thing altogether. (and there are plenty of these about!)
 
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David
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#27
He does shoot plenty of normal stuff too...that tells me that most want normal...

Which pretty much bears out what I and others have experienced too...

The whacky is fun to play with and always fun to punt out and see if anyone will use it...not many do. Keeps bored togs amused anyway :)

Darren got famous because the arty bunch at the guardian and the BBC decided to play ball...not sure its much wider than that.

That's your opinion, yes, but ever considered that this "arty stuff" is appealing because it's different? The best photographers innovate. While I'd want images of my car on the track, I'd pay more for a set that included some documentary style paddock action of my car, me, or any crew with me. I'd pay more for that. I reckon I'm not alone in that opinion either.

The fact that you think it's "whacky" is quite telling. I see nothing "whacky" about Darren Heath's work.
 

MWHCVT

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Matthew
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#28
Pookeyhead said:
That's your opinion, yes, but ever considered that this "arty stuff" is appealing because it's different? The best photographers innovate. While I'd want images of my car on the track, I'd pay more for a set that included some documentary style paddock action of my car, me, or any crew with me. I'd pay more for that. I reckon I'm not alone in that opinion either.

The fact that you think it's "whacky" is quite telling. I see nothing "whacky" about Darren Heath's work.
Oh my god, have you ever had a thought that you haven't decided is a fact as soon as you uttered it? Your not actually a Motorsport photographer as well now are you? Or maybe you drive a race car in your spare time? But there are plenty of experienced guys above who have said what pays the bills for them but you've still got to effectively deride their opinion or knowledge on the subject.
 
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Paul
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#29
Even if you are shooting just for yourself and yourself only and using a cheap basic camera, assuming that you WANT to better yourself, you can do so by following all the classic pre digital techiques.

Post digital nothing has changed in techniques when it comes to quality photography asides from some very minor things such as the advantage of being able to adjust the ISO easily.

By following the core photography techinques as can be found in any decent old photography book available in a chariy shop for 50p you'll be able to produce much, much better photos than by worrying about any of the digital stuff.

If you actually sit down and study these core techniques properly you'll be amazed what you can achieve.
 
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James
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#30
I believe it is a matter of personal taste.

Some people are pleased with stock classic images other with more creative ones, it doesn't mean one is better of the other, in the end what you end up doing is more down to what your clients or yourself like.

Also may I add that Darren has been shooting the sport for 20+ years and he has learned his craft through out all this time in the industry...I doubt his work at the start of his career was similar to the one he is producing now.
 
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Vlad
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#31
The fact that you think it's "whacky" is quite telling. I see nothing "whacky" about Darren Heath's work.
No, "whacky" is exactly what all my editorial/user contacts call ultra slow shutter stuff, its what every person I know who regularly shoots this style calls their work too (and there are quite a few).

In motorsport, the ultra slow shutter stuff IS widely referred to as "whacky".

There's even a well known BSB media tog (from London Bikers) who goes by the name of "whackyracer" because that is his main style.

As I say, its not unique to Darren - people have been messing with whacky style forever. Nothing is unique in photography if you look wide enough - its only unique in whatever corner you choose to limit your view to.
 
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#32
@ David (Pookeyhead).

For myself with the off track photographs it is mostly moments (interaction between team members), and very ocassionally, considering the lighting in garages, light.
Of course composition is always there.

-----

Re the "arty" stuff.
If it is done well it is ok, however I do have stong views about the "photographs" that appear to be accidental technical failures. Mine do make it off the camera and unless content (rarely) dictates otherwise go straight to the bin.

-----

@ Paul (riddell)

I agree that some of the older photographs are both technically and aesthetically great (think Nigel Snowdon) and can be inspirational, and some of the older books can be very helpful however they do need to cover things like autofocus and automatic lenses.

As a hobbyst digital has freed me from the tyranny of shooting just 3 rolls (~108 pics) of transparency film per day and being able to get reasonable results at unbelievable ISO's.
The histogram, has also removes a lot of the problems in getting a correct exposure and shooting RAW also means no more colour correction filters (not that I used them much anyway, just lived with the slightly blue or warm images depending on passing clouds and the time of day).


Nobody every experimented with the blurry "arty" stuff, you just could not afford it if you were paying for your film and processing.

Along with autofocus (not all of us could afford follow focus lenses) , digital has allowed hobbyst to get consistent results we never dreamed of in the distant past. Not to mention the ease of having your photographs seen widely, and having your own "darkroom".
 
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#33
I agree with Chris in some respects, In fact, along with a lot of people, I would like to be more experimental in my photography. I think the key thing has already been mentioned, that everyone is at different levels. Its not fair to expect master-strokes of creativity from beginners who are just discovering the fundamentals of photography.

Also a good point about critique, id prefer critical feedback every time, as i'm sure most would... it means a lot more coming from people who's work you respect and thus try to emulate to a degree.

Gaz, Darren also mentions everything has been done before so originality is impossible.


However...Chris I noticed one of your first posts in the 'favourite of 2012' and have seen you comment a few times since. you are often quite critical of others, yet have only offered your own stuff up once.

While you may be a great photographer with a huge commercial portfolio or just another amateur trying to learn the ropes, its probably not the best idea to approach the community with a holier than thou attitude (as a number of your posts appear to).

I too am not really a fan of the motorsport shots on your site (the lotus f1 shot excluded, that's great :)), many of them look like mistakes. While I understand you may be pushing creative barriers - you probably need to be able to demonstrate a knowledge of traditional photography (which i'm sure you have) for people to take you seriously (I mean, Picaso was a great traditional artist prior to getting famous for drawing eyes on chins etc).

If you just jump in with 'that's not proper photography, you should be cutting the front of the car off, behind a tree and under exposing, like me' its a little hard to ascertain your thought process.

I look forward to seeing more of your work, so I can see where you are coming from
 
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Chris Gouge
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#34
I am pleased people are still contributing to this thread, it is interesting hearing different views.

In anticipation of the start of the new BTCC season next week, I have added a temporary gallery to my website. These photos are more your typical, 'normal' type of photographs compared to the other images on my site. If you would like to have a look, the link is http://www.chrisg-photography.com/btcc

I would be interested to hear how people think these compare....
 
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Matthew
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#35
I skimmed this, but I completely agree with the "Great Shot "Fantastic Capture" "Wonderful Image" etc, these are not helpful, tell me what is working, and what isn't, and tell me straight, it's my passion, I'm not going to throw my toys out of my pram when someone doesn't like something, or comments on something that in reality I probably know already, but it's far more useful knowing someone else spotted it.
 
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Chris Gouge
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#36
However...Chris I noticed one of your first posts in the 'favourite of 2012' and have seen you comment a few times since. you are often quite critical of others, yet have only offered your own stuff up once.

While you may be a great photographer with a huge commercial portfolio or just another amateur trying to learn the ropes, its probably not the best idea to approach the community with a holier than thou attitude (as a number of your posts appear to).

I too am not really a fan of the motorsport shots on your site (the lotus f1 shot excluded, that's great :)), many of them look like mistakes. While I understand you may be pushing creative barriers - you probably need to be able to demonstrate a knowledge of traditional photography (which i'm sure you have) for people to take you seriously (I mean, Picaso was a great traditional artist prior to getting famous for drawing eyes on chins etc).

If you just jump in with 'that's not proper photography, you should be cutting the front of the car off, behind a tree and under exposing, like me' its a little hard to ascertain your thought process.

I look forward to seeing more of your work, so I can see where you are coming from
The reason I have only posted my own photos once is that it has been the winter and so I haven't had chance to attend any events to be able to post any more photos. I read your reply after my last post but if you have a look, I have added a few photos to my site which are more 'traditional'

With regards to "approaching the community with a holier than thou attitude", this is not at all my intent and I am sorry if I have came across this way. I have never said I am better than any one else on here or said they should shoot like me, whenever I have gave feedback and criticism it has always been pretty fundamental ways in which they could improve and I have always complimented on areas that I like. I struggle to understand what brings you to say that but I am sorry if I have came across in such a way.
 
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#37
Its all well understood Chris, just the way things are read can be easily misinterpreted. What i'm really getting at is, you might be better served by interacting more with the community in a give and take style rather than just focusing on the giving :) and I assumed you had been taking photos for more than just a year so could demonstrate previous examples :)
 
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#38
I have, however I only joined this site in the winter and people don't seem to post old photos. I have been conscious of the fact that I have only posted my own photos once, which is why I don't contribute on other threads too often, but when the season picks up and I am able to attend more events I will continue to add more photos.
 
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#40
I am pleased people are still contributing to this thread, it is interesting hearing different views.

In anticipation of the start of the new BTCC season next week, I have added a temporary gallery to my website. These photos are more your typical, 'normal' type of photographs compared to the other images on my site. If you would like to have a look, the link is http://www.chrisg-photography.com/btcc

I would be interested to hear how people think these compare....
Chris - serious question for you. . . . is your hosting site screwing with your photo's quality? Honest reason for asking because not one of those BTCC photo's are in focus (except maybe the Matt Neal head shot) oh and you have a bad case of 'dust bunnies' on quite a few - normally you would remove them before uploading, especially if your asking money for them.

I like the panning / motion and the head on 'curb jumpers' are very well timed.

.DAVID.
 
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