The Purpose of Photography - A rant!

Chris,
A lot of these work better for me.
However some of the photographs are very soft either due to poor focussing or too slow a shutter speed.

The drivers parade
James Nash
Tony Gilham

The the focus on the back of the portrait of car 52 doesnt work for me.
Car 18 lifting a wheel looks a bit soft to me.

Car 38 panning pic is a good idea but either the panning hasn't been quite right or the focus missed.
I like the comp of car 5 but again it is very soft.

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You may find this intro to motor sport tutorial, of mine, of interest.
Especially post #7

http://digital-photography-school.com/forum/tutorials/190114-motor-sport.html

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Edit:
Is it hosted on Zenfolio?
 
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Oh my god, have you ever had a thought that you haven't decided is a fact as soon as you uttered it? Your not actually a Motorsport photographer as well now are you? Or maybe you drive a race car in your spare time? But there are plenty of experienced guys above who have said what pays the bills for them but you've still got to effectively deride their opinion or knowledge on the subject.

LOL... what the hell is your problem? No, I'm not a motorsport photographer, but I'm a buyer of motorsport photography. Am I a racing driver? No... but I do attend a shed load of track days and I do buy a great deal of photographs as a result. As a CUSTOMER... a CLIENT... I'm telling you I would rather buy images like the ones produced by Darren Heath.

That is my opinion as a customer. Argue with that if you want, but since when as THAT ever been sensible? People at track days and events buy what's available if they want shots of their car on the track. I've often been frustrated at the limited range of shots available when I preview them.
 
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LOL... what the hell is your problem? No, I'm not a motorsport photographer, but I'm a buyer of motorsport photography. Am I a racing driver? No... but I do attend a shed load of track days and I do buy a great deal of photographs as a result. As a CUSTOMER... a CLIENT... I'm telling you I would rather buy images like the ones produced by Darren Heath.

That is my opinion as a customer. Argue with that if you want, but since when as THAT ever been sensible? People at track days and events buy what's available if they want shots of their car on the track. I've often been frustrated at the limited range of shots available when I preview them.

My problem is your inability to see anything thing but your opinion as cut and dry fact :shake:
 
It's not, nor do I think it is. I'm giving my perspective as someone who always used to buy images of my cars on the track.. and stopped because they're all the damned same. I thought I;d give a perspective as a customer.
 
I think you forget the people who have no official training, have taken up this great hobby, seen composition style and quality they admire and try to replicate it in some way.
They then post up an image they personally like or think is good for them; to hopefully get some positive and negative feedback for improvement.
Not all of us want our photos the centre of attention in a gallery, just maybe some encouragement and advise on how to take good photos for our own pleasure.

And most importantly not all of us have that artistic eye or exceptional vision for detail, we miss things that to you pros are very obvious, having these pointed out to us allows us to move forward and take much better photos.

And for me the help is always appreciated (y)
 
Don't rule out the vast amount of people who just want to be told 'great shots' - similar to the people who post endless photos of themselves pouting on Facebook. It's sometimes just vanity!
 
I think everyone understands the warm feeling being told your work is good, but when it's just not, it really grates me.

Agreed :), but that's down to us surely... I think a lot of people, myself included don't feel confident offering serious critique as many of us are just beginners ourselves. This is why I value the opinion so much more of those that have posted stuff I admire. lol maybe we can add a 'give it to me straight' emoticon :)

Chris, had a look through your new posts:
As has been mentioned, all bar one of your off track shots are OOF due to shutter speed. Unfortunately I fail to see any creative reason for this other than poor technique:thinking:

Your on track shots are better, but the majority are soft or badly framed. I think this indicates that contrary to your belief that...
Anyone can take a camera to a track (as you will all know it seems pretty much everyone does these days) and press the shutter when a car passes by!
....there is actually a bit more to it than that, and capturing a 'stock' image also requires a high degree of ability and thought.

I don't mean to sound unnecessarily critical, as I prefer to be positive. While your advice on many counts does indeed ring true, its a little galling when the OP (you) cant demonstrate it themselves. Taking blurry photos because you cant take sharp ones is not really being creative, its running before you can walk...

That said though some of your images are great and show a lot of promise - I look forward to seeing more this year
 
I have been on this forum for a little while now, and I have found it to be one of the best I have been a member of. Not just for photography, but for non related photo topics also, as most of the time I am in the Out Of Focus section.

Photography for me is just a hobby, I know nobody else is interested in my images, and I really don't care, so long as they help me remember that certain event.

I worked in the catering trade for over thirty years, and I certainly would not join a catering forum. I would not want want to spend my free time asking questions like, what is the best pan or what utensil should I be using. The thought of swapping recipes :puke:

Maybe there should be a sub board under the Talk Business Category, then this could be used by the Serious, Professional, Elite :)
 
I keep on trying to get my head round the true point of this post but find it just makes me either :bang: or:bat:

Think we will be lucky to find the next Darren Heath or Andrew Wheeler on TP to be honest and in 99% of threads honest guidance is given about peoples pictures by amateur or semi pro photographers but without that great big kick in the nuts of "Your photos suck so give up now"

Maybe its just me but I found this forum and its members a great help in moving my photography forward and up with words of encouragement and guidance given to me over the years, which I believe was a lot better than just pointing out all the negatives of someone's images.

I'm happy with my work and my hobby,its never going to make me rich or even earn an income from it. Even though my images now are just normal none arty shots they have still been used in National Press and other outlets and I owe most of that to the people involved in the Motorsport Forum of TP and the guidance I was given.

The reason I love this forum so much compared to all the rest is its not full of I love Canon or I love Nikon shooters but people who love photography and don't have their head stuck so far up their own arse to think they are the best tog ever.

If you approach the motorsport forum for what it is and from an amateur point of view then you will have a great time, receive encouragement and guidance and possibly make some friends along the way.
 
The reason I love this forum so much compared to all the rest is its not full of I love Canon or I love Nikon shooters but people who love photography and don't have their head stuck so far up their own arse to think they are the best tog ever.

If you approach the motorsport forum for what it is and from an amateur point of view then you will have a great time, receive encouragement and guidance and possibly make some friends along the way.

Well said Glen

........and let's face it, people from Milton Keynes need all the friends they can get :D
 
I keep on trying to get my head round the true point of this post but find it just makes me either :bang: or:bat:

Think we will be lucky to find the next Darren Heath or Andrew Wheeler on TP to be honest and in 99% of threads honest guidance is given about peoples pictures by amateur or semi pro photographers but without that great big kick in the nuts of "Your photos suck so give up now"

Maybe its just me but I found this forum and its members a great help in moving my photography forward and up with words of encouragement and guidance given to me over the years, which I believe was a lot better than just pointing out all the negatives of someone's images.

I'm happy with my work and my hobby,its never going to make me rich or even earn an income from it. Even though my images now are just normal none arty shots they have still been used in National Press and other outlets and I owe most of that to the people involved in the Motorsport Forum of TP and the guidance I was given.

The reason I love this forum so much compared to all the rest is its not full of I love Canon or I love Nikon shooters but people who love photography and don't have their head stuck so far up their own arse to think they are the best tog ever.

If you approach the motorsport forum for what it is and from an amateur point of view then you will have a great time, receive encouragement and guidance and possibly make some friends along the way.

Well said Glen(y)

At the end of the day every photographer is individual & what they feel makes a good photo may not be the same as yours, it all come down to personal taste.
 
For me, a photographer's work really stands out with the wow factor when they have a combination of great technical skill and real artistic flair that shines out in an image. Having said that, one persons art is another's eyesore but the skill and thought can still be appreciated. I would say a lot of hobbyists are aiming at honing technical skills which can be learned, and if they are lucky enough to have a bit of "right brain" creativity then it will show.

Sadly, I lack both and would just be happy to improve my practical skills and produce consistent (yet run of the mill ;) ! ) images.
 
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Think we will be lucky to find the next Darren Heath or Andrew Wheeler on TP to be honest and in 99% of threads honest guidance is given about peoples pictures by amateur or semi pro photographers but without that great big kick in the nuts of "Your photos suck so give up now"

No one's ever going to say that (hopefully).
Look at Matt Sayle, he posted some proper rubbish on here when he started, and now he's really good and earning money from it.
 
Encouragement is I think the most important thing we can do for others on here.

Matt I know benefitted massively from being encouraged and that encouragement has indeed led him from nothing to accomplished, paid photographer.

And I'm sure he will tell you just the same.

Sure, adding some technical advice to your comments helps, if you can, but just to tell someone that you (genuinely) have enjoyed looking at their images is what a lot of people need.

Its not about ego either, its about giving them the idea that doing more is going to be worth it. Few of us want to take photos and put them in a cardboard box in the back bedroom never to see the light of day. We want others to see them and to enjoy them.

I get a little cross when people moan about "great shots" type comments. Sure we should all write more than just that, but some feedback rather than none I think is important for us all to develop.

Unlike other photography forums, by and large this one is really friendly, so write what you think, try to find a few more words if you can, but don't be afraid to say as little or as much as you want - people need that!

While I have been here I have witnessed several TP'ers go from beginner to black belt and beyond. What we have here WORKS but you need to all play your part.
 
Interesting stream, some nice shots and some errrr, well not for me ;)
 
Interesting discussion going on here...

Firstly, I think this forum is fantastic. There are some fantastic photographers on here that I’ve learnt so much from and you can always rely on an honest opinion of whether the “marmite” shot you just posted should’ve just been deleted. :D

It can be annoying when you post a load of photos and people say “nice set, I like 5” when you’re actually looking for constructive criticism on them. But I think there can be a variety of reasons for it and I think I’m just as guilty of this.

I can look at photos and say what I like and why I like them, but I don’t feel I can tell people how to improve. I personally don’t think I’ve been taking photos long enough, or have enough experience to tell people how to do it. If someone asks how I achieved one of my shots, I’m more than happy to share. But because I haven’t been doing this long I don’t feel I’m the best person to give too many tips.

Also like destanik touched on above. Not everyone has time to post a detailed critique on every shot someones taken. In that situation I’m more than happy to take a “nice set”, because the moral boost is always nice and it’s good to see you’re doing something right.

With regards to the arty vs. non-arty debate. Like people have said people take photos for different reasons. My family don’t give up taking holiday snaps because the photos don’t look like they do in the brochure. They take holidays snaps for the memories. Same reason for motorsport. If someone goes to the F1 then they may want to come back with a physical memory of the event. If thats a photo of a car sat in the middle of the frame thats fine, if it’s a 1/10th pan with exhaust over run though a set of trees thats also fine. Different people like different things.

I’ve shown my photos to my friends and a lot of them just say “whys the car wonky” or “you didn’t get the car in the middle of the photo”. That doesn’t bother me as long as I’ve achieved what I set out to get.
 
Interesting thread. I see where Chris is coming from, but also agree that photography is entirely subjective and what one makes one person happy doesn't always for another. I'm firmly in the happy snapper camp and only started with motorsports a year or so ago. Once I learned panning (well okay I'm still learning it!) I quickly found that I personally like the slow shutter speeds giving me a sense of speed/motion. I've really enjoyed the limited exposure to motorsports I've had (only one hill climb venue) and would really like to do more. Ultimately though the realisation that I'll only ever be a spectator shooting for fun has made me want to concentrate on the more "arty" and "whacky" shots this year rather than also try to capture every car driving the hill.

I don't consider myself a photographer, as I tend to take pictures of places and events I go to rather than go to places and events in order to take photographs. I've got to admit I've always felt like an outsider in here so not posted that much. I'm an amateur who did have pretentions of "getting into" motorsports photography, but I'm past that now :) The last couple of threads I posted were way back last year, I got some feedback but probably should have asked for more. I'll try and make more of an effort to contribute this year, but find it difficult when I'm only still learning myself :)

http://www.talkphotography.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=407605
http://www.talkphotography.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=411555
 
After just discovering and reading this thread I do agree with the posters original comments. I would love more honest critique of my efforts. I thought I Was taking some decent pictures as the comments are usually positive. But is it just the etiquette that has built up on the forum of not offending. I have been a member and poster for 4 years or so and can remember crit being more honest. I can also remember getting flamed for being too harsh.
However this has now pandered to my paranoia and I am concerned I am posting Sub standard stuff and making myself look a bit of a fool.
 
People who post on the threads fall into two categories:

1) Those who just like pictures of motorsport and know little of the art of composition etc and the stuff looks just like their own stuff

2) Those who know a little bit more.

Now, those who fall under the second category may or may not help you. Given the number of people asking for crit and the risk of looking like a know it all cnut, you might offer a little help or praise but you aren't going to deconstruct every single shot you see - there aren't enough hours in the day and quite honestly, there's a fair chance you are going to start an argument.

Maybe things were different when years ago TP had about a dozen motorsport regulars...

Its not just motorsport though, everyone on here wants help and advice. Few feel qualified to offer it, are reluctant to get a kicking in return and don't have the time to hand hold everyone...

My advice - go away and learn a bit about the subject by analysing quality paid for work in books and magazines. Look at what those folks do, find the images that leap out at you and then try to work out why they work. Make lists of attributes that make a great image in your opinion and then try to replicate it. Work out the photographic techniques they might have used... become your own critic.

If nothing else, it gives you an objective to work towards - just don't get hung up on the mantra of "it must be original or its ****".
 
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After just discovering and reading this thread I do agree with the posters original comments. I would love more honest critique of my efforts. I thought I Was taking some decent pictures as the comments are usually positive. But is it just the etiquette that has built up on the forum of not offending. I have been a member and poster for 4 years or so and can remember crit being more honest. I can also remember getting flamed for being too harsh.
However this has now pandered to my paranoia and I am concerned I am posting Sub standard stuff and making myself look a bit of a fool.

I'm guessing you already do, but use of the 'Critique' prefix on posts you particularly want critique on might help draw some more enthusiasm for responses.
I've tried to be a lot more active in the Motorsport forum of late, but, especially with the kick off of the track season, everytime I log on, there are another 10-15 new sets to check out.
Agree wholeheartedly with your post though!
 
Personally, I find this site rather "slow" and rather "smoke blowing." If I put a picture up for critique and got nothing but "great" it would **** me off...and that seems to be 90+% of what happens here...
There's no "right" or "wrong" critique...critique is all about opinion...anyone can say "it doesn't work for me" and that's 100% as valid as some pro saying "it's great"...maybe even more-so...

If it turns out this is just a KMA forum, I won't be around long...
 
Come on then Steven, lets see you putting your time and effort in to help others....

Seriously, I'm starting to get a bit annoyed now with the "I want for free" attitudes some folks are showing.

I'm sure somewhere on the net you can pay for critical analysis of your work...
 
Personally, I find this site rather "slow" and rather "smoke blowing." If I put a picture up for critique and got nothing but "great" it would **** me off...and that seems to be 90+% of what happens here...
There's no "right" or "wrong" critique...critique is all about opinion...anyone can say "it doesn't work for me" and that's 100% as valid as some pro saying "it's great"...maybe even more-so...

If it turns out this is just a KMA forum, I won't be around long...

I agree with everything you said. Great post!
 
People who post on the threads fall into two categories:

1) Those who just like pictures of motorsport and know little of the art of composition etc and the stuff looks just like their own stuff

2) Those who know a little bit more.

Now, those who fall under the second category may or may not help you. Given the number of people asking for crit and the risk of looking like a know it all cnut, you might offer a little help or praise but you aren't going to deconstruct every single shot you see - there aren't enough hours in the day and quite honestly, there's a fair chance you are going to start an argument.

Maybe things were different when years ago TP had about a dozen motorsport regulars...

Its not just motorsport though, everyone on here wants help and advice. Few feel qualified to offer it, are reluctant to get a kicking in return and don't have the time to hand hold everyone...

My advice - go away and learn a bit about the subject by analysing quality paid for work in books and magazines. Look at what those folks do, find the images that leap out at you and then try to work out why they work. Make lists of attributes that make a great image in your opinion and then try to replicate it. Work out the photographic techniques they might have used... become your own critic.

If nothing else, it gives you an objective to work towards - just don't get hung up on the mantra of "it must be original or its ****".

Have to say that is spot on. Nail on the head.

I'm sometimes reluctant to give much critique because it can look a bit arrogant.
 
I have to agree with everything Gary agreed with too.

At uni we're encouraged to be critical of our own and others work, usually meeting twice a week to discuss our work and others. This has made it quite normal for me to break down, analyse and critique work, so I do so.

Every time someone throws their toys out of the pram because I didn't like something (granted I'm quite blunt, but in this culture I don't want you to assume I'm being positive) I become less likely to comment. I treat others as I'd like to be treated.

Next time you see some of my work, tell me it's crap! Better than silence.
 
An attempt to help out:

Some thoughts on soft motor sport pics.

This is response to soft images being posted for critiques etc.
It is mostly technical, and not a comment on the aesthetic value of images that appear to be deliberately creative.
Most of it is pretty basic.

What causes soft images?

#1
An object between you and your subject, like a fence or trees.
I havn't had the "pleasure" of shooting through fences, although I mostly shoot from the spectator areas, so I won't touch that one.

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#2
Incorrect shutter speed.

For static subjects, like people, and in the paddock, know you limits;
When hand holding with different focal length lenses.
As a guide think of 1/focal length as a guide for starters. So if I am shooting with a 135mm lens I will try to keep by suhtter speed faster then 1/150 (most likely it will be at 1/200)
It is an individual thing so go out and experiment.
If you are using a P&S or bridge camera you may want to factor in the 35mm eqiuvalent focal length.
In cases like this image stabilisation will help as does a mono pod etc.
Lighting conditions may mean you do not have much of a choice of ISO and aperture. I will usually go wide open (or near wide open) and the kick up the ISO

Example #1
In a garage.


The driver by dicktay2000, on Flickr

Canon 40D + Canon EF 100-400mm f/4.5-5.6 L IS USM Lens
Exposure 0.003 sec (1/320)
Aperture f/6.3 (almost wide open)
Focal Length 400 mm (maximum)
ISO Speed 3200 (maximum)
Exposure Bias -1/3 EV
Exposure Program Aperture-priority AE

That lens is mostly used on a mono pod (except for panning)

The same principals also apply when shooting static subjects, or near static subjects, trackside.

Example #2
A pre-dawn race start - the cars have just started rolling


Race Start by dicktay2000, on Flickr

Canon 40D + Canon EF 100-400mm f/4.5-5.6 L IS USM Lens
Exposure 0.003 sec (1/320)
Aperture f/7.1
Focal Length 100 mm
ISO Speed 3200 (Maximum)
Exposure Program Manual

Shooting racing

Here I like to show blurred wheels, at the very least. Otherwise you may as well be shooting parked cars.
So that means shooting around 1/320 or slower, which still may be too fast for some cars.
This introduces two new problems.
(1) You will need to master the technique of shooting with long lenses at relatively slow shutter speeds. I find the use of a mono pod helps a lot.
(2) If unplanned action occurs your shutter speed will to be too low to capture a sharp image, unless it all happens in slow motion (like a motor cycle rider high siding it).
However if if the images are not sharp they may still meet an end users needs (like an accident investigation).

Example #3 .
At a V8 "test" day. I was probably slightly panning as well.


I like the paint job on this one. by dicktay2000, on Flickr

Canon 40D + Canon EF 100-400mm f/4.5-5.6 L IS USM Lens
Exposure 0.006 sec (1/160)
Aperture f/11.0
Focal Length 340 mm
ISO Speed 100
Exposure Bias -1/3 EV
Exposure Program Shutter speed priority AE

If you can't see the wheels then you can shoot at higher shutter speeds, light permitting, without any problems.
So camera or subject motion should not be a cause of soft images for a lot of "cars in a scene" photographs.

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#3
Focusing.
For static subjects this should never be a problem, even when shooting wide open.
I normally use single shot autofocus with centre focus point only active. Focus and recompose if necessary.
Example #1, above shows this.
If windscreens etc are causing problems then switch to manual focus.

Trackside action.
This is where it may get harder. Out of focus pics are the single bigest cause of technical failures in my motor sport photography
Normally the camera is set up with focus tracking on and centre focus point only active.
I try to pick up the subject early and start tracking it with the shutter button depressed to give the lens time to "lock on" before fully depressing the shutter button.
If you are shooting a burst with oncomming cars usually only the first or second pic will be sharp (depending on the cars speed).
Newer (I am shooting with older cameras) cameras have better focussing sytems so read the manual etc and see which works best for you.
You may also want to investigate back button focussing, some photographers love it. I am not entirely comfortable able using it.
I try to have my aperture around F8-F11 as this will give me a bit more leway.

Example #4.
These shots are relatively easy as you have plenty of time to pick up the subject.


IMG_8149 by dicktay2000, on Flickr

Camera Canon EOS 40D + Tokina 80-400 lens.
Exposure 0.002 sec (1/500) (you can't see any wheels with these vehicles so using a higer than normal shutter speed doesn't matter)
Aperture f/11.0
Focal Length 400 mm
ISO Speed 400
Exposure Bias +1/3 EV
Exposure Program Shutter speed priority AE

When fast cars are moving away from you autofocus doesn't work so well so you may want to focus on a spot, possibly using manual focus, and wait for the cars to arrive.

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#4
Panning
If you get your panning right it can look good....... otherwise......
It does take a fair bit of practice

Example #5
It is possible to get sharp panning shots as in this example.
Here is a tutorial on panning of mine, of mine.

http://digital-photography-school.com/forum/tutorials/121859-panning-motor-sport.html


Sunset on the strip by dicktay2000, on Flickr

Shot at 1/100

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#6
Camera and lens etc

For static shots and cars in a landscape almost any camera will be fine, especially when shooting in reasonable light levels.

For shooting action you may want to step it up a bit equipment wise, and this is from personal experience, for more consistent results, especially in the autofocus department.
The difference in performance is like night and day between entry level dslrs and mid range dslrs, even with older models.
The same applies with lenses. Beside improved image quality, especially at the wider apertures, better lenses also focus a lot faster.
Use lens hoods as this will possibly reduce flare and also help keep rain and and spray off the front of the lens.
I usually only use "protection" filters where there is a lot of rubbish in the air like dust amd water.

Setting the image quality to maximum and RAW will allow you to get the most out of what you shoot albiet with a reduced buffer capacity and a possible large increase in post processing time.
Try to fill the frame with the subject although allowing a little room for cropping for compositional purposes may help.

When shooting shutter speed is #1 priority so unwanted subject or camera motion is not a problem
If light levels drop I do not have any problems shooting wide open (to maintain the shutter speed) and at increased ISO keeping in mind icreased ISO means more noise and softer images.
In worst case scenario shoot aperture priority (or manual if need be) with the lens wide open, maximum ISO, and take what ever shutter speed you can get.
It may mean a lot of post processing including noise reduction, possibly selectively.
Get the exposure right .. beside loosing details in blown highlights, under exposed images may be recovered when post processing at a cost of increased noise causing which may cause softness.

Example #6
This is a worst case scenario. During the last race of the day in fading light.
This pic has had a lot of PPing.


Mark Alexander by dicktay2000, on Flickr

Camera Canon EOS 40D + Canon EF 100-400mm f/4.5-5.6 L IS USM Lens
Exposure 0.006 sec (1/160)
Aperture f/5.6 (wide open)
Focal Length 400 mm
ISO Speed 3200 (maximum)
Exposure Bias 0 EV
Flash Off, Did not fire
Exposure Program - Manual
I would have been using a monopod.

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#7
Post processing
It can make a huge difference and is a necessity when shooting RAW.
Normally is (if needed);
Cropping
Colour balance.
Levels adjustment.
Give it a bit of punch (lightroom presets)
Image resizing (if for web publication)
Noise reduction.
Sharpening (for web or print).
Normally for web publication if the image doesn't look good I don't publish it, unless content dictates otherwise.

------------------------------

Larger versions of the pics are on my Flickr stream

Richard
 
Interesting thread. It immediately brought Club at Thruxton to mind, guys stood there from 9am to 5pm with 500mm lenses firing away at 6fps every time a car hits the kerb. It used to annoy me (mainly because I wondered what the hell the point was) but life is too short to be concerned with what others are doing, especially if they aren't harming anyone.

Everyone gets enjoyment out of different things, I love pushing myself to the absolute limit, even if it means coming away with ten shots from a thousand. I practiced at track days, sprints etc, 30-40 events per year until I could consistently nail some ridiculously slow shutter speeds. I then got bored, and decided to really push myself and see if I could shoot successfully with Micro 4/3s kit. I know plenty of people wondered what the hell I was doing as I had got to the point where I being offered plenty of work (but turning it down, as I enjoy it too much to turn into a job), but the challenge of shooting with incredibly difficult kit has completely revitalised my love of shooting motorsport, I've gone from easily shooting 1/30 pans all day to spending hours figuring out how to get a car even remotely sharp at 1/200!

It's a good thing that we aren't all the same, most of us behind the fence are there because we enjoy it, if that means getting a sharp record shot of every car, or a few 'crazy' shots then so be it. I personally can't stand super-slow panning shots where nothing is even vaguely in focus (mainly because I practiced for years to get bits in focus with super-slow pans), but that doesn't mean it isn't a 'valid' shot, any more or less than head-on 1/2000 shots or anything else.

I guess the summary of my point is that the 'purpose' is whatever you want it to be, for me it's the thrill of doing very very difficult things, for others it may be completely different.
 
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