The RSPB wants your photos........

jerry12953

jerry12953

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Jeremy Moore
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......and it doesn't want to pay for them.

Conditions in their 2015 calendar competition state the following --

"By submitting any contribution to the RSPB, you agree to grant to the RSPB a perpetual royalty free licence to use any or all of the contributions in any of their publications, and on the website and/or in any publicity material. Permission will be sought and the author credited where possible"

Prizes are three canon cameras worth £500 (1st), £300 (2nd) and £200 (3rd) - no doubt donated by the manufacturer.

Good deal, or what?
 
Depends if you want to have the chance of winning a camera or not :LOL: to be honest every time a see a thread like this I cannot help but think well don't enter then :LOL: at least they're a charity that does some good and not just some conglomerate on a purely cost saving image grab to further line there pockets, we looking here are an organisation that will use the money saved to further there protection of wildlife (y)
 
Sounds like a great deal for anybody who wants to support the RSPB, which I assume is everybody who enters the competition.
 
I suppose that those whom this competition is aimed at (amateurs) will probably not bother looking at the T&C's. They'll just think they are entering a competition (first prize a canon 1000D) and they could end up having their picture(s) plastered all over the RSPB website, without getting anything in return.

I guess supporting the work of the RSPB could be a good motivation to want to do this, but having worked for the RSPB myself I have very mixed feelings about them. Despite all the good work they do they are a very large (and, one might say, ruthless) charity. This kind of "competition" does them no favours in my opinion.
 
It's a cheap way for the RSPB to get some beautiful images to use and a chance for someone to win a nice camera. You enter if you wish, or don't if you don't want to give your images away for free.
 
I suspect most of the pictures entered will have been taken on a better camera than the prize offered, maybe if people want free pics it's time to 'up' the prizes to a top end camera.
 
jerry12953 said:
I suppose that those whom this competition is aimed at (amateurs) will probably not bother looking at the T&C's. They'll just think they are entering a competition (first prize a canon 1000D) and they could end up having their picture(s) plastered all over the RSPB website, without getting anything in return.

I guess supporting the work of the RSPB could be a good motivation to want to do this, but having worked for the RSPB myself I have very mixed feelings about them. Despite all the good work they do they are a very large (and, one might say, ruthless) charity. This kind of "competition" does them no favours in my opinion.
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At least your not the type of guy to hold a grudge then :thinking:
 
It does sound a bit sweeping. These things are usually limited to promotions relating to the actual competition, which is kinda okay I guess.

I also don't know why they would then need to ask permission, since they've already got it? It also means that the photographer could not then offer an exclusive license to anyone else, inhibiting sales potential. Just seems a bit thoughtless.
 
Many competitions demand use of the images though. Not a big deal. So long as it's not exclusive rights, or asking you to give up intellectual rights of any kind, it's fair enough if you ask me.
 
Don't see the issue. You know the conditions before you enter if yer not happy then don't bother. Simple. Personally, I'd be chuffed to have one of my pics on their website or in one of their mags even for free.

For what it's worth I have been an RSPB member for donkey's years. I pay my membership by DD but never take up any of their offers for further contributions or to sell raffles etc. Personal choice.
 
Ta!
 
Agree don't see it as an issue you know the rules, you make the choice.
 
OMG lets ban all photographic competitions, in case somebody might lose some money.
 
swanseamale47 said:
I suspect most of the pictures entered will have been taken on a better camera than the prize offered, maybe if people want free pics it's time to 'up' the prizes to a top end camera.
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This strikes me as the best reply so far.
I think he's right...
If the prize was a day (or more) privileged access to an amazing location under the wings of someone who really knows their stuff, then I think keen-amateurs who already have the gear would be more likely to enter - and this thread wouldn't have got so far.

Reminds me of a Motorsport Challenge I won (many moons ago) where the prize was an entry level DSLR when I already had a 5dII (when it was new).
I gave the camera away to a keen motorsport photographer who only had a bridge camera - he did the prize justice, though I enjoyed the challenge.
 
the OP clearly has an axe to grind against the RSPB so can be forgiven for trying to dissuade anyone from any dealings with them.

All i can say is if you truly think that your image is so good that its worth enough in royalties to live off, then i suggest submitting it to Getty or one of the other large repositories, sit back and wait to roll around in the £50 notes.

Or reality could take over, you realise you have a nice picture of a crow or some such feathered friend and would like to see it on a nation wide, fairly high exposure calendar and you would love to show the results off to family and friends, then go for it. Id be more than happy to get £500 and a calendar for a snap of mine.

The AA no doubt make more than 10k off their landscape pic of the year book (grotty images of carparks not withstanding) but people recognise that as a good thing to be seen in.
 
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I also don't see the issue. I'd love to get one of my photos into a Calendar like this.
As others have said, they are a charity, if you don't like it don't enter.
 
The T's & C's don't grant them exclusive rights, the copyright remains with the photographer so you are free to sell your images or enter them into other competitions.
 
essexash said:
the OP clearly has an axe to grind against the RSPB so can be forgiven for trying to dissuade anyone from any dealings with them.

All i can say is if you truly think that your image is so good that its worth enough in royalties to live off, then i suggest submitting it to Getty or one of the other large repositories, sit back and wait to roll around in the £50 notes.

Or reality could take over, you realise you have a nice picture of a crow or some such feathered friend and would like to see it on a nation wide, fairly high exposure calendar and you would love to show the results off to family and friends, then go for it. Id be more than happy to get £500 and a calendar for a snap of mine.

The AA no doubt make more than 10k off their landscape pic of the year book (grotty images of carparks not withstanding) but people recognise that as a good thing to be seen in.
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I'm afraid your comments are so wide of the mark that I feel obliged to reply. I have mixed feelings about the RSPB, it is true. I worked for them many years ago but that is not the point. The RSPB is very rich, very corporate, and quite ruthless in the way it operates.

However, I am a member, and they do a brilliant job. I've recently visited a couple of their reedbed reserves which have been created from

a) peat cuttings and

b) cereal fields.

Another has been created from carrot fields. I've seen brilliant birds in each of the two I've visited. They are also - fortunately - a successful pressure group, although not as successful as I'd like them to be.

So it is nothing to do with sour grapes.

What I object to is ANY organisation obtaining free photographs under the guise of running "a competition". Think about it. There are three "prizes", the best of which is a canon 100D, value £400 or less. How many months are there in a year? So 9 images will be used in the calendar without payment or without prize.. And any entries may be used by the RSPB for any purpose. I just think it is really SAD that the RSPB should sink so low as to behave like this towards photographers.

I understand what you are saying about showing your work off to family and friends but try to think about what the vanity of photographers is doing/has done to photography as a means of earning a living.

As for £50 notes I haven't the foggiest what you're on about.
 
It's not a guise at all they are asking you to enter a competition, where they have told you what they are going to do with the photographs. If you care to look at most competitions (photography or otherwise) you will see the prizes have been donated.

Why have they sank so low? I can remember similar competitions with the YOC many years ago.

As for taking away somebodies livelihood, do you seriously believe there is now a professional photographer who has had to sell his house because of this competition?
 
jerry12953 said:
What I object to is ANY organisation obtaining free photographs under the guise of running "a competition".
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So, you would prefer the RSPB to use its money to buy images for its calendar - using money that could be used for campaigning?

I presume you also believe that the thousands of volunteers that work on their reserves should stop working for free, thus removing a huge negative influence on the chances of people making a living as a navvi?!
 
The RSPB have double standards.
They resist all efforts to cull troublesome birds that are causing damage (for example the massive rise in cormorant population that is causing the depletion of fisheries) and yet they have no qualms about shooting other wildlife that is encroaching on their precious bird sanctuaries.
A highly selective "conservation" policy.
 
hollis_f said:
So, you would prefer the RSPB to use its money to buy images for its calendar - using money that could be used for campaigning?

I presume you also believe that the thousands of volunteers that work on their reserves should stop working for free, thus removing a huge negative influence on the chances of people making a living as a navvi?!
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Those are both good points.

But look at it from the point of view of those photographers who supply the RSPB's image library, though. They submit images made at their own expense which they hope the RSPB will use themselves or supply to other users. They then get a percentage. Can't be too pleasing for them to see their potential income being reduced in this way.

If the RSPB wanted to be upfront about it, why don't they just put an appeal in the magazine - "We want free photographs. Please send them in". I'm sorry to repeat myself but these so-called competitions are a cynical way to get free images to the detriment of the photography profession in general.

As for the volunteers who work on reserves I agree that the RSPB probably couldn't function without them. Having said that most of the jobs they do are pretty undemanding, aren't they? Meet and greet, hacking rhodedendrons, that sort of thing?

As for Brian G's comment, culling is a difficult issue but I suspect the RSPB has got it about right. I'm surprised they don't quietly remove a few million canada geese, but they probably don't want to upset the 'cuddly feathered friends" lovers amongst their members.
 
I have absolutely no axe to grind with the RSPB per se, they do a splendid job as do a lot of charitable institutions.

But let's not forget that in order to do that job they are run as a commercial enterprise, a business which according to their own latest accounts (in the public domain) had a total income of £122.1 million, & a net income available for charitable purposes of £90.1 million - after taking into account £13.1 million cost of goods for resale, & £18.9 million for other cost of generating income. They recognise the need to spend to accumulate.

In that scenario, therefore, it's difficult to perceive the terms & conditions of the photo competition as anything other than mean & penny pinching, an appeal to the emotion & vanity of those who'll probably neither read nor care about the rights grab, a missed opportunity to do it right, a lesson not learned from the negative response & backlash to others who've already pulled the same trick, & yet another kick in the teeth for those of us who care about the further degradation of photographers' rights & incomes.

It doesn't affect me directly, I don't do avian pix & already own a quality DSLR, but as a point of principle .................
 
I'd hazard a guess they are not aiming at photographers but more of the twitchers who have been in the right place at the right time with their camera, if they are aiming at photographers the marketing manager needs the sack as his skills with the choice of 1st prize will not work.
 
Martyn D said:
I'd hazard a guess they are not aiming at photographers but more of the twitchers who have been in the right place at the right time with their camera, if they are aiming at photographers the marketing manager needs the sack as his skills with the choice of 1st prize will not work.
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This assumes that people will only enter the competition in order to win a camera, rather than for the kudos of having their image in the RSPB calendar.
 
rudolf hucker said:
yet another kick in the teeth for those of us who care about the further degradation of photographers' rights & incomes.
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Photographer's rights! WTF? What rights? How is this competition degrading these non-existent rights? What a load of old shoemakers.
 
hollis_f said:
This assumes that people will only enter the competition in order to win a camera, rather than for the kudos of having their image in the RSPB calendar.
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Agree completely Frank, but it will limit who enters, I guess they'll get enough entries from people who want to see their image in the calendar, nothing wrong with that, it's something I'd do if mine were good enough. Would be interesting to know what a few from the "bird" section on here think, is the prize enough of a bait to push the "maybes" to enter.
 
hollis_f said:
Photographer's rights! WTF? What rights? How is this competition degrading these non-existent rights? What a load of old shoemakers.
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It is doing that by reserving the right to use any entry, not even just the winning entries, for any purpose whatsoever, without time limit, free of charge. It is within the photographers rights to not enter, but what percentage of those entering will actually read the T&C's?

Judging from some of the reactions on this thread this kind of rights grab seems to have become accepted as the norm.

I find that quite shocking and vey disappointing.
 
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I'm with Jerry. Is this typical of RSPB competitions, or perhaps a momentary lapse by some marketing junior? I'd like to think so, because it looks underhand and petty, no credit to the RSPB. Free use in connection with the competition is probably okay, which is maybe all they actually want, but a perpetual license to do whatever they like at no cost? No, not right.

It's also probably a bit stupid as the best photographers will check the rules for sure and simply not enter.
 
HoppyUK said:
but a perpetual license to do whatever they like at no cost? No, not right.
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This I agree with, but still can't stop thinking of it as a donation that may win a prize.
I think if it had been a smaller charity, that it wouldn't be as frowned upon - but that's probably a bit of a link to the stereotype of "charities are poor and have no funds/inadequate funds"
 
HoppyUK said:
the best photographers will check the rules for sure and simply not enter.
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Surely this is not a competition with the 'professional' in mind, it's an opportunity for members of the RSPB and other amateur photographers to submit their photos for the joy of participating and the possibility of winning a camera suitable for the sort of photographer they are.
 
jerry12953 said:
It is doing that by reserving the right to use any entry, not even just the winning entries, for any purpose whatsoever, without time limit, free of charge. It is within the photographers rights to not enter, but what percentage of those entering will actually read the T&C's?
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gramps said:
Surely this is not a competition with the 'professional' in mind, it's an opportunity for members of the RSPB and other amateur photographers to submit their photos for the joy of participating and the possibility of winning a camera suitable for the sort of photographer they are.
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But it indirectly affects the professional by enabling the organiser to use free images (if they're good enough!)rather than paid for ones......
 
jerry12953 said:
But it indirectly affects the professional by enabling the organiser to use free images (if they're good enough!)rather than paid for ones......
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So what? If the non-professional results are good enough why should they pay for images?

Do you mow your own lawn? What about all the professional lawn-mowing services?
Do you clean your own windows? What about the professional window-cleaners?
Do you make your own cookies? What about all those Girl Scouts?
Do you ever drive anywhere yourslef? What about all those taxi drivers?

If professionals in any field aren't good enough to compete with amateurs then they don't deserve to survive.
 
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