The virus. PPE. Part 1

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woof woof said:
What can any government do. Imagine the outcry if they try to impose another and stricter lockdown.

Personally I've lost faith in the public as a significant number seem to be acting as if C19 doesn't exist. It's ok though as if it all goes to pot (again) they can blame the government.
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Agree. Over the weeks of my almost daily walks things seem to have drifted back to as they were pre-Covid.

People who are clearly not from the same household who get far closer than 2m. Groups of people playing football together; even larger groups having food together.

A couple of weeks ago I could walk anywhere and see very few people and hardly bother to look for traffic. Now the roads look just about back the what was normal and while the streets aren't full, they are pretty close.

I think some of this is experience. If you are not in a high risk group and don't know anyone who has had or died with Covid19 then you might well think, "What's the problem?"

There is also an element, I think, of bloody-mindedness - nobody is going to tell them what to do.

The quick change from the lock down announced on the 23rd March to the position, in England, of you can go anywhere you want and you can now meet up to 6 people outdoors has encouraged some to think they can be much more relaxed about they do and, as always, some will push any restriction/rule as far as they can.

There is also, for some, the Cummings effect - if one of the alleged architects of the rules can ignore those rules, why should anyone else take notice of what the government say.

I think the rules have been relaxed too soon and I hope it doesn't result in another peak in cases and deaths.

Dave
 
I may be feeling more pessimistic than usual but I think with the way some seem to be acting an increase in cases is probably likely. I think this is maybe a good time to be in the opposition rather than in government.

Oh, and in my own vho anyone falling back on a Dominic Cummings defense for doing anything other than something very similar to what he did and instead attending gatherings and otherwise carrying on as normal and not social distancing as if c19 doesn't exist is irresponsible as they'll be possibly putting their own life and more importantly the lives of others at risk.
 
Cobra said:
In the beginning lock down seemed to work very well. most people obeying the rules,
well that is apart from my neighbour ( and I'm sure they weren't alone) young family young preschool lad.
They carried on as normal, week-ends away or family & friends round, more than 1 child heard playing in the garden or seen bouncing on the trampoline (high fences here) & going out for the evening ( God knows where though)
But now the lock down has been eased, again God knows why, certainly to the extent, that people seem to think it has, its very much like a "schools out" mentality.
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Probably because of the amount of people ignoring the measures, couldn't be policed. Which required the risk being reassessed to hopefully keep some kind of control.
 
Tringa said:
I think some of this is experience. If you are not in a high risk group and don't know anyone who has had or died with Covid19 then you might well think, "What's the problem?"

Dave
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I think this is true for many, and a lot of people think they may have had it already so feel immune. They see this and perceive the risk to be minimal?

Also, do people switch off, 400 in a day dying at the start was a shock, now it’s ‘the norm’ so are people just getting used to it?

I think though it’s seeing other countries easing restrictions and not seeing big spikes yet and so feel comfortable easing ours.

It’s a weird disease, with some people not even getting ill.
 
dcash29 said:
Which required the risk being reassessed to hopefully keep some kind of control.
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Yeah that "law" doesn't work lets down grade it :rolleyes:
 
cambsno said:
I think this is true for many, and a lot of people think they may have had it already so feel immune. They see this and perceive the risk to be minimal?

Also, do people switch off, 400 in a day dying at the start was a shock, now it’s ‘the norm’ so are people just getting used to it?

I think though it’s seeing other countries easing restrictions and not seeing big spikes yet and so feel comfortable easing ours.

It’s a weird disease, with some people not even getting ill.
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Judging by the antibody studies, a lot more people think (hope?) they've had it than actually have. Without a vaccine, we may still need 10x the number of cumulative cases before natural herd immunity (if effective) is achieved, which implies hundreds of thousands of deaths in the UK.

Resurgence in case numbers is starting to happen now - Iran is an early warning of the way this can go:

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/iran/
 
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Retune said:
Judging by the antibody studies, a lot more people think (hope?) they've had it than actually have. Without a vaccine, we may still need 10x the number of cumulative cases before natural herd immunity (if effective) is achieved, which implies hundreds of thousands of deaths in the UK.

Resurgence in case numbers is starting to happen now - Iran is an early warning of the way this can go:

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/iran/
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There still appears to be some important unknowns in respect of what sort of post infection immunity remains following recovery from the illness. Will there be widespread immunity throughout the population, will it provide 100% protection and how long will that immunity last.
 
dcash29 said:
“Black Lives Matter” So why do protesters not follow the social distancing measures?
Are the illiterate or totally thick?
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Because a few thousand extra deaths seem relatively unimportant compared with generations of oppression, and in some countries the ability for men of one race to kill those of another without justice being served.
 
Tringa said:
Agree. Over the weeks of my almost daily walks things seem to have drifted back to as they were pre-Covid.

People who are clearly not from the same household who get far closer than 2m. Groups of people playing football together; even larger groups having food together.

A couple of weeks ago I could walk anywhere and see very few people and hardly bother to look for traffic. Now the roads look just about back the what was normal and while the streets aren't full, they are pretty close.

I think some of this is experience. If you are not in a high risk group and don't know anyone who has had or died with Covid19 then you might well think, "What's the problem?"

There is also an element, I think, of bloody-mindedness - nobody is going to tell them what to do.

The quick change from the lock down announced on the 23rd March to the position, in England, of you can go anywhere you want and you can now meet up to 6 people outdoors has encouraged some to think they can be much more relaxed about they do and, as always, some will push any restriction/rule as far as they can.

There is also, for some, the Cummings effect - if one of the alleged architects of the rules can ignore those rules, why should anyone else take notice of what the government say.

I think the rules have been relaxed too soon and I hope it doesn't result in another peak in cases and deaths.

Dave
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In this area (north Oxfordshire) there has been a small increase in activity, but nothing like a return to normal.

I've felt very tempted to see if the band (Gospel Bell) can't get together for some local open-air 'Dominic Cummings benefit' gigs.
 
woof woof said:
What can any government do. Imagine the outcry if they try to impose another and stricter lockdown.

Personally I've lost faith in the public as a significant number seem to be acting as if C19 doesn't exist. It's ok though as if it all goes to pot (again) they can blame the government.
Click to expand...

If the government were competent and trustworthy the public could easily accept tightening of lockdown measures.
However....
 
I’ve just read on a financial forum that Oxford Uni will announce ,on Tuesday, the successful development of a Covid vaccine. Being sceptical I Googled it and can’t find the source of that claim but found this article dated today. Is it possible that claim could be genuine ? This article states it‘s near a breakthrough. To my mind a breakthrough isn’t the same as a result. I’m wondering if the person posting is mistaking antibody treatment with a vaccine. Not the same, I assume.

https://news.sky.com/story/coronavi...r-breakthrough-on-antibody-treatment-12002160
 
JohnC6 said:
I’ve just read on a financial forum that Oxford Uni will announce ,on Tuesday, the successful development of a Covid vaccine. Being sceptical I Googled it and can’t find the source of that claim but found this article dated today. Is it possible that claim could be genuine ? This article states it‘s near a breakthrough. To my mind a breakthrough isn’t the same as a result. I’m wondering if the person posting is mistaking antibody treatment with a vaccine. Not the same, I assume.

https://news.sky.com/story/coronavi...r-breakthrough-on-antibody-treatment-12002160
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You assume correctly and it says that in the article but I agree it’s rather misleadingly written.
 
JohnC6 said:
I’ve just read on a financial forum that Oxford Uni will announce ,on Tuesday, the successful development of a Covid vaccine. Being sceptical I Googled it and can’t find the source of that claim but found this article dated today. Is it possible that claim could be genuine ? This article states it‘s near a breakthrough. To my mind a breakthrough isn’t the same as a result. I’m wondering if the person posting is mistaking antibody treatment with a vaccine. Not the same, I assume.

https://news.sky.com/story/coronavi...r-breakthrough-on-antibody-treatment-12002160
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The key line is : "And there is now similar confidence that a separate project to create an antibody treatment for those especially vulnerable to COVID-19 will also prove successful, with testing now said to be moving at "full speed". "

and also

"Pascal Soriot, chief executive of AstraZeneca, has described the treatment as a "combination of two antibodies" in an injected dose, reducing the chance that someone would develop resistance to one of them.

He told The Sunday Telegraph that the treatment could be vital for the elderly and vulnerable, "who may not be able to develop a good response to the vaccine".


FWIW if a couple of protective antibodies can be indentified then it should be possible to produce large amounts in culture at low(ish) cost.
 
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dcash29 said:
“Black Lives Matter” So why do protesters not follow the social distancing measures?
Are the illiterate or totally thick?
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Bearing in mind BAME people are at more risk to it, I think desperate is the word you're looking for.

I assume though, that if I scroll back through posts, I'll find similar posts calling all the people celebrating VE day with garden parties and street conga lines illiterate and thick? Or is it only reserved for those who break the rules for reasons you don't agree with?
 
KitsuneAndy said:
Bearing in mind BAME people are at more risk to it, I think desperate is the word you're looking for.

I assume though, that if I scroll back through posts, I'll find similar posts calling all the people celebrating VE day with garden parties and street conga lines illiterate and thick? Or is it only reserved for those who break the rules for reasons you don't agree with?
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I think its the scale of the protests thats the problem - tens of thousands in relatively small spaces, we cant even invite people to our homes yet its 'ok' for people to do this. It basically says ignore the Covid rules if you believe in something. Now is not the time to allow this - what will be the human cost of these demos? Will this require a further lockdown or restrictions - which will actually hit BAME people a hell of a lot in terms of finances and jobs and possibly lives. How many people will be taking the virus home to their parents?

If people feel the need to protest, wait till its safe to do so!
 
I would just like to thank everyone that protested yesterday.

Thank you for ignoring the sacrifices that Nurses, Doctors, care workers, delivery drivers, supermarket workers, keyworkers and everyone that has kept us alive and going through this crisis.

Thank you for dishonouring those 40,000 that have died in the U.K. and the family’s that mourn them.

Thank you for disrespecting the 10’s of millions who have been at home; alone, lonely and away from their mums, dads, grandparents, children and friends.

Thank you for your sheer and absolute arrogance that makes your protest spread this virus to so many more people who will die.

Thank you.
 
There will always be reasons white people tell black people now isn't the right time to protest.

Pretty sure the black community know their most at risk, and that's likely do to societal issues rather than genetic. Which is due to ingrained racism in our society.

But that's for another thread.
 
Tigger.ufo said:
I would just like to thank everyone that protested yesterday.

Thank you for ignoring the sacrifices that Nurses, Doctors, care workers, delivery drivers, supermarket workers, keyworkers and everyone that has kept us alive and going through this crisis.

Thank you for dishonouring those 40,000 that have died in the U.K. and the family’s that mourn them.

Thank you for disrespecting the 10’s of millions who have been at home; alone, lonely and away from their mums, dads, grandparents, children and friends.

Thank you for your sheer and absolute arrogance that makes your protest spread this virus to so many more people who will die.

Thank you.
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Don't forget to thank Boris for allowing the 250,000 race goers at the Cheltenham festival, the 50,000 fans at the Liverpool-A.Madrid match, allowing rugby fans to congregate in Cardiff and allowing them to full the pubs right up until the night before kick-off before getting the game called off, the recent packed beaches, the rammed public transport, the VE day celebrations, the high profile government bodies who took their wives (even though infected) half way up and down the country and particularly don't forget to thank those governments who have failed the NHS for decades, but yeah let's have a pop and blame people who have had the s***tty end of the stick for centuries because it's an easy target.
 
tijuana taxi said:
White or Black, equal opportunity when it comes to being thick and ignorant
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I dunno, the amount of people I've seen trying to defend the Colston statue is firmly putting the trophy for ignorance in white hands.
 
Anyway, debate about the BLM protests is always going to get heated, and while I think it's an important discussion, I think it's important this thread doesn't end up in Hot Topics.
 
Tigger.ufo said:
I would just like to thank everyone that protested yesterday.

Thank you for ignoring the sacrifices that Nurses, Doctors, care workers, delivery drivers, supermarket workers, keyworkers and everyone that has kept us alive and going through this crisis.

Thank you for dishonouring those 40,000 that have died in the U.K. and the family’s that mourn them.

Thank you for disrespecting the 10’s of millions who have been at home; alone, lonely and away from their mums, dads, grandparents, children and friends.

Thank you for your sheer and absolute arrogance that makes your protest spread this virus to so many more people who will die.

Thank you.
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You took the words right out of my mouth, 100% Agree (y)
 
mex said:
but yeah let's have a pop and blame people who have had the s***tty end of the stick for centuries because it's an easy target.
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Thank you, Nigel for pointing out all the other cases that have been done to death already in this and other threads.

My post was in no way blaming the people who have had the s***tty end of the stick for centuries because they're an easy target. It is blaming the complete and utter stupidity of all those who chose to undo all the hard work of everyone over the previous weeks of lockdown.

I know that we are lucky in this country to have the right to protest but I cannot accept that gives anyone the right to put others at risk no matter who they are.
 
Tigger.ufo said:
I would just like to thank everyone that protested yesterday.

Thank you for ignoring the sacrifices that Nurses, Doctors, care workers, delivery drivers, supermarket workers, keyworkers and everyone that has kept us alive and going through this crisis.

Thank you for dishonouring those 40,000 that have died in the U.K. and the family’s that mourn them.

Thank you for disrespecting the 10’s of millions who have been at home; alone, lonely and away from their mums, dads, grandparents, children and friends.

Thank you for your sheer and absolute arrogance that makes your protest spread this virus to so many more people who will die.

Thank you.
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Yes. And in a way they are saying “black lives don’t matter” since BAME people are disproportionately affected by the virus the effects of which will likely be increased by these protests. And likening racism to a pandemic is just stupid.
 
mex said:
Don't forget to thank Boris for allowing the 250,000 race goers at the Cheltenham festival, the 50,000 fans at the Liverpool-A.Madrid match, allowing rugby fans to congregate in Cardiff and allowing them to full the pubs right up until the night before kick-off before getting the game called off, the recent packed beaches, the rammed public transport, the VE day celebrations, the high profile government bodies who took their wives (even though infected) half way up and down the country and particularly don't forget to thank those governments who have failed the NHS for decades, but yeah let's have a pop and blame people who have had the s***tty end of the stick for centuries because it's an easy target.
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People have criticised Boris and all those that have broken rules in the past - you have been quite vocal in that and you/others have been right to do that, yet the people protesting do not deserve that criticsm?
 
cambsno said:
People have criticised Boris and all those that have broken rules in the past - you have been quite vocal in that and you/others have been right to do that, yet the people protesting do not deserve that criticsm?
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I wouldn't equate protesting for human rights to going for a jolly at the beach.

I can't pretend to understand the suffering that POC have gone through over the years, so I can't condemn their actions. White folk telling black folk what they should and should not be doing is the entire issue.
 
Anyone who is sat here criticising the BLM movement and protests, while believing they're not at all racist, could probably do with reading this book. Doubly so if they're critical of the toppling of the Colston statue.

You don't think you're being racist because it's so ingrained in our society by design.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Longer-Talking-White-People-About/dp/1408870584/ref=sr_1_1?crid=H1X7821MR48Z&dchild=1&keywords=why+i+m+no+longer+speaking+to+white+people+about+race&qid=1591605924&sprefix=why+i'm+,aps,154&sr=8-1

Hands up until this week who hadn't really thought about the connotations of speedlight terminology? Master flash and slave flash? I hadn't considered it. That's white privilege. We're all guilty of it, and we need to accept that and do our best to change it, if we truly want all lives to matter equally. Because right now, they don't.
 
KitsuneAndy said:
You don't think you're being racist because it's so ingrained in our society by design.
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I disagree with the two words I have emphasised. In my experience, you can find xenophobia anywhere and it's very difficult to decide how much of it is social and how much is genetic. What is often forgotten is that those who are seen as victims of racism are often racist themselves, where they form a local majority.
 
Retune said:
Judging by the antibody studies, a lot more people think (hope?) they've had it than actually have. Without a vaccine, we may still need 10x the number of cumulative cases before natural herd immunity (if effective) is achieved, which implies hundreds of thousands of deaths in the UK.

Resurgence in case numbers is starting to happen now - Iran is an early warning of the way this can go:

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/iran/
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Herd immunity not working so well in Sweden.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...dies-by-end-of-april-study-sweden-coronavirus

I remember reading this a few weeks ago, but can't find anything more recent so the figures may have increased. Even if they have it seems a heavy price to pay.

Public starting to lose faith it seems

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-sweden-confidence-idUSKBN23B0WX

Although the level of faith is still higher than we have in our government

Screenshot 2020-06-08 at 10.17.18.png

Source https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...as-public-lose-faith-in-coronavirus-responses
 
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