The vividness of a photo

Ok, I forgot that I am speaking with men who know about cars way more than me, so I agree it is a s***ty example...Now I want to hide under that big bush :exit::LOL: And Is this just a coincidence or again my crazy mind, but there are more men in photography than women, am I right?
Buut I understood what you wanted to say and from now I will be using auto or semi auto modes to concentrate my attention more on my composition and light which are most important. Thank you!
Well, all of you been in the same position, all of you been beginners at once, so you did also a lot of mistakes while you learned how to take a good shot and I believe you are still learning new things every day...:) I know that I do not know a lot of things now, but I will in time and I appreciate all your critics, this will encourage me to move forward.
 
Eyeoftheeagle said:
Ok, I forgot that I am speaking with men who know about cars way more than me, so I agree it is a s***ty example...Now I want to hide under that big bush :exit::LOL: And Is this just a coincidence or again my crazy mind, but there are more men in photography than women, am I right?
Buut I understood what you wanted to say and from now I will be using auto or semi auto modes to concentrate my attention more on my composition and light which are most important. Thank you!
Well, all of you been in the same position, all of you been beginners at once, so you did also a lot of mistakes while you learned how to take a good shot and I believe you are still learning new things every day...:) I know that I do not know a lot of things now, but I will in time and I appreciate all your critics, this will encourage me to move forward.
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Whether photography or anything in life there is always something more to learn, so your approach is a worthy one.

But can I suggest that you avoid fully auto mode because AFAIK all (most?) dSLRs in full auto "take control" of more than just the exposure. These other functions e.g. AF settings are ones you should master as part of learning good camera craft.
 
For this photo, and for a semi-beginner, I would shoot with aperture priority and have the metering set to centre (not spot). It should allow the colour to pop a bit before you take it into Lightroom. It would also give you the results you desire with a quick exposure increase.

It's personal preference, but in my 20 years taking photos I've never shot manually.

Keep it up, you will nail the effect you want with more practice.
 
As Phil said (as he always says, and he's correct 99% of the time) - the reason that the colours are flat is because you've shot in dull light.

Some nice early morning, late evening sun hitting it would add some gentle shadows, warm highlights and more interest to the scene.

The underexposure has made it darker than ideal, but even properly exposed it would still be flat as the light was flat...
 
Also remember that even bad photos (whether it be composition, light or technical) are a way of learning. Don't just delete them before looking into why it hasn't worked. This is a great forum for learning, as long as you can take a bit of criticism, see though some of the arguments between members, listen to what's being advised and don't expect everyone to love all of your photos.
Just enjoy your photography and all will be good.
 
Nostromo said:
Also remember that even bad photos (whether it be composition, light or technical) are a way of learning. Don't just delete them before looking into why it hasn't worked. This is a great forum for learning, as long as you can take a bit of criticism, see though some of the arguments between members, listen to what's being advised and don't expect everyone to love all of your photos.
Just enjoy your photography and all will be good.
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(y)

Two ways of learning - the hard way, from your mistakes, and finding out how to fix them.
or
The easier and far more enjoyable way - use technology to help (basically the semi-auto modes like aperture-priority) and learn from your successes.

Either way, it is vital to check the camera settings, note the effect that they've had, and understand why.
 
Peter69 said:
Do you use lightroom and do you shoot raw?
With raw you really need to 'develop' the image in post.
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This is a myth. If you select the correct camera calibration in the bottom panel you'll get pretty close to what the camera's jpeg settings achieve on their own.

Kodiak Qc said:
•


If you're shooting RAW, the first steps are DRL and WB.
To give a mineral capture a more organic look, mid-tonal
taming should resolve both contrast of the luminance and
vividness of the chrominance without having to use such
things as saturation, vibrance, contrast etc.

If you have captured correctly the scene through proper
exposure, it's all in the recorded data and not complicated
to pull out.

Have a good time!
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That's about as clear as a foggy day in the fens.

4wd said:
It looks a bit like you aren't using sRGB, Lightroom will default to ProPhoto or something.
Results will be dispapointing unless this is changed.
Exif seems to be removed so can't check.
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It (a) looks like sRGB to me and (b) Lightroom's default export is to sRGB. It uses different colour spaces internally but that's largely irrelevant.

Phil V said:
So
The photo us underexposed, which isn't really having a bearing on the vividness of the colours.

You can also change all those things in post production, as noted, check your Lightroom settings, and check out some basic LR tutorials.

However; the answer to your actual question is 'because it was shot on an overcast day.

Photography is literally translated as drawing with light, the thing which most affects the quality of an image is the quality of the light.

Hopefully it's a bright sunny day with you, go and shoot a flower now, then shoot it again when the weather is overcast, they'll be dramatically different images.
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@Eyeoftheeagle Listen to Phil!!
 
Eyeoftheeagle said:
Ok, I forgot that I am speaking with men who know about cars way more than me, so I agree it is a s***ty example...Now I want to hide under that big bush :exit::LOL: And Is this just a coincidence or again my crazy mind, but there are more men in photography than women, am I right?
Buut I understood what you wanted to say and from now I will be using auto or semi auto modes to concentrate my attention more on my composition and light which are most important. Thank you!
Well, all of you been in the same position, all of you been beginners at once, so you did also a lot of mistakes while you learned how to take a good shot and I believe you are still learning new things every day...:) I know that I do not know a lot of things now, but I will in time and I appreciate all your critics, this will encourage me to move forward.
Click to expand...

Let's see if we can lighten the mood.
Whilst there's probably almost as many female photographers as male (probably more blokes due to the 'toys' aspect), forums tend to be populated by blokes.

There's also a leaning towards older members.

The good news is that the advice is often sound and aimed at helping newbies in the right direction.

There's easy ways of doing stuff, and I wish I was learning today, where a bit of talent and a thirst for knowledge can make you a great photographer in a tiny percentage of the time it took 30 years ago.

The web is full of amazing inspiration and great tutorials, all I had was some crappy books, so mostly learning from my mistakes.

Stick with it, remember that the photo is the important thing, gear is secondary.

And because everyone should read this once:
Beginners think it's about cameras
Enthusiasts think it's about lenses
Photographers know it's all about the light.

As I said earlier, one of the greatest skills you can learn is to 'see' the light.
 
Eyeoftheeagle said:
Thank you @Orangecroc!



Well, what I was thinking that if I want to take a control of the camera and learn how to take better shots I should be shooting Manual :) Maybe it is just my silly opinion, but when I shooting auto mode, I do not like how camera sometimes expose my photos, so this is the second reason why I want to shoot Manual, to adjust all the settings by myself and to learn how to adjust them. Sometimes I shoot auto mode to see what was the shutter speed, aperture and ISO if I like the photo... In my opinion, it is like driving a car, you learn how to drive manual not automatic, manual is harder. But thank you for your advice, maybe I really have to shoot in semi auto modes for now. :)
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Personally I shoot manual and RAW as that gives me the best control over the shot. Yes, shooting in auto is easier and will get good results a lot of the time but control is what I prefer. The only way to get better is practise, keep trying new things and then have a play in LR after to see what can be done.

Light is important too, the better the light the easier it is - an overcast day will be flat but sometimes can look great in B&W - don't worry too much about that part as its often something you cant control!
 
cambsno said:
...
Light is important too, the better the light the easier it is - an overcast day will be flat but sometimes can look great in B&W - don't worry too much about that part as its often something you cant control!
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I'm sorry but this couldn't be a worse understanding of photography.

Light is something we often can control, and when we can't control it, we have to take advantage of it.

Light and subject is like weather and clothing, there's no such thing as bad light, just inappropriate light for the subject.

Dull flat light won't give us a nice contrasty shot of a flower (come back later or add more light), but it will give us a flattering portrait of someone with a less than perfect complexion.

Likewise on a bright sunny day, if we want to create a flattering portrait, we'll look for open shade where the harsh light gets flattened out into something we can use. That is 'controlling the light' isn't it?

Similarly making something black and white because we 'don't like the light' is just an admission we don't have the skills, patience or techniques required to make the right image in camera. Its certainly 'easy' to control the contrast in a B&W conversion, but using it as a fallback position is outright lazy.

This might appear to be off topic for many, but it is really a further explanation of 'vividness' that @Eyeoftheeagle could make use of.
 
Phil V said:
I'm sorry but this couldn't be a worse understanding of photography.

Light is something we often can control, and when we can't control it, we have to take advantage of it.

Light and subject is like weather and clothing, there's no such thing as bad light, just inappropriate light for the subject.

Dull flat light won't give us a nice contrasty shot of a flower (come back later or add more light), but it will give us a flattering portrait of someone with a less than perfect complexion.

Likewise on a bright sunny day, if we want to create a flattering portrait, we'll look for open shade where the harsh light gets flattened out into something we can use. That is 'controlling the light' isn't it?

Similarly making something black and white because we 'don't like the light' is just an admission we don't have the skills, patience or techniques required to make the right image in camera. Its certainly 'easy' to control the contrast in a B&W conversion, but using it as a fallback position is outright lazy.

This might appear to be off topic for many, but it is really a further explanation of 'vividness' that @Eyeoftheeagle could make use of.
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I guess for me it depends what you shoot outside. Personally its normally either aircraft or the kids playing or 'doing something' outside. For aircraft I don't have a great deal of control over the dates of airshows or the weather or where the planes fly! Nothing worse than grey skys (and bright blue sky can be a pain as a bit of cloud really helps.) The sun shining on the plane as it makes the right pass is also good and not shooting into the sun (obvious but if you stand in Duxford you pretty much shoot into the sun unless you are in one of the naughty fields). Occasionally (and seeing as I generally shoot older aircraft) converting into B&W can make a boring photo an ok one, although if the conditions are poor I shoot a lot less than great conditions). So I would have to disagree for that specific area. A good example was a TLE shoot I was on, first part was grey and flat but nothing at all I could do to control that light.

Sure, for kids I can be in a position to control (but I am talking more about family snaps rather than pro-pics) and if I am at a day out with them again there is little I can control, if the light is flat its flat and it may not be possible to go back another time or use flash for say a kids football tournament.

So yes, of course I will use position and timings where possible to control the light but in many situations its just not possible.
 
cambsno said:
I guess for me it depends what you shoot outside. Personally its normally either aircraft or the kids playing or 'doing something' outside. For aircraft I don't have a great deal of control over the dates of airshows or the weather or where the planes fly! Nothing worse than grey skys (and bright blue sky can be a pain as a bit of cloud really helps.) The sun shining on the plane as it makes the right pass is also good and not shooting into the sun (obvious but if you stand in Duxford you pretty much shoot into the sun unless you are in one of the naughty fields). Occasionally (and seeing as I generally shoot older aircraft) converting into B&W can make a boring photo an ok one, although if the conditions are poor I shoot a lot less than great conditions). So I would have to disagree for that specific area. A good example was a TLE shoot I was on, first part was grey and flat but nothing at all I could do to control that light.

Sure, for kids I can be in a position to control (but I am talking more about family snaps rather than pro-pics) and if I am at a day out with them again there is little I can control, if the light is flat its flat and it may not be possible to go back another time or use flash for say a kids football tournament.

So yes, of course I will use position and timings where possible to control the light but in many situations its just not possible.
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'Great light' is hard to define and extremely variable. It's certainly not always bright light, far from it. I would describe it as light that compliments and enhances the subject. I often use flash where possible, especially on very bright days! I wonder, why do those Duxford photographers bother going to the 'naughty fields'?

To take something of an extreme example, here's an example of great light, that would normally be described as bluddy awful light. But it's perfect for the subject - Robert Capa's D-Day Landing
https://timedotcom.files.wordpress.com/2014/05/robert-capa-dday-face-in-the-surf.jpg?quality=85
 
Eyeoftheeagle said:
Ok, I forgot that I am speaking with men who know about cars way more than me, so I agree it is a s***ty example...Now I want to hide under that big bush :exit::LOL: And Is this just a coincidence or again my crazy mind, but there are more men in photography than women, am I right?
Buut I understood what you wanted to say and from now I will be using auto or semi auto modes to concentrate my attention more on my composition and light which are most important. Thank you!
Well, all of you been in the same position, all of you been beginners at once, so you did also a lot of mistakes while you learned how to take a good shot and I believe you are still learning new things every day...:) I know that I do not know a lot of things now, but I will in time and I appreciate all your critics, this will encourage me to move forward.
Click to expand...

Taking the last part first, if you can't find something new to learn in photography then it is time to give up, there is always some new- camera/lens/accessory- new to the market place.

As for men v women in photography I would about the same number thee are good and bad in each.

Everyone makes mistakes especially when starting out in photography and even after years of experience., Remember what one person considers a good photograph another may thing it is terrible. Being ones own critic is about the hardest thing as one can always think "If I took it using this or doing it that way or in another position would it make a better picture?

For me if I am happy with the photos I take they are good enough, if others like them it is a bonus, but a professional photographer will like everyone to like all their photos.
 
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HoppyUK said:
why do those Duxford photographers bother going to the 'naughty fields'?
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@cambsno
Those guys in the 'naughty fields' whatever that means, are 'photographers', the other crowds are 'aircraft fans with cameras'.

I don't expect you to prioritise the same way as them, I would like you to be able to differentiate between snaps and photographs though.

And taking 'snaps' whilst using Manual and shooting raw is just trying to convince yourself that you're 'serious' about the photography. The photographers have barely thought about the mode they're shooting, but they can bore for England explaining their choice of viewpoint.

My casual subjects are always surprised when they say 'take my picture' and I say OK, followed by 'just stand here and face this direction', the daft sods assume that me pointing my 'pro' camera at them is what creates a 'photo', when it's actually the other bit.
 
Phil V said:
@cambsno
Those guys in the 'naughty fields' whatever that means, are 'photographers', the other crowds are 'aircraft fans with cameras'.

I don't expect you to prioritise the same way as them, I would like you to be able to differentiate between snaps and photographs though.

And taking 'snaps' whilst using Manual and shooting raw is just trying to convince yourself that you're 'serious' about the photography. The photographers have barely thought about the mode they're shooting, but they can bore for England explaining their choice of viewpoint.

My casual subjects are always surprised when they say 'take my picture' and I say OK, followed by 'just stand here and face this direction', the daft sods assume that me pointing my 'pro' camera at them is what creates a 'photo', when it's actually the other bit.
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No, the guys in the naughty fields can also be fans with cameras, while many are there with monster zooms and would probably fit your profile as 'photographers', others are taking video or even just using it to see a show for free and using an iPhone to grab images! Now I know that gear doesnt make the photographer but it can make one hell of a difference at airshows! I don't go because its free, I go because the light and angles are often better. Plenty of serious photographers go into the show too!

I have no need to convince myself I am serious, what I photograph will vary enormously. Snaps, images, photographs... does it really matter about the terminology? Tea, supper, dinner... call them what you will. While I will capture pictures (thats a safe word!) that are more serious (in terms of lighting, pose and typically these will be pictures to frame or do something with) I also capture loads that are fun and impromptu. In my mind they are snaps. Just because I refer to them as snaps does not mean I do treat them seriously - I will delete loads, spend time cropping etc... but at the end of the day when I am biking in front of them and trying to turn round to grab a shot without crashing its a snap, but it captures the moment perfectly.

Trying to get this back on topic - Bazza is right, photography is very subjective, and Masters of Photography is an example of that. My wife will often prefer different images as I tend to favour well lit, sharp & composed images (not exclusively) but she is more about the emotion that image offers. While you will rarely be totally happy with what you shoot if you like it then its a good image. Making bad images is good, it makes you a better photographer and I probably learn more when I mess up than when its great! A bit like life!
 
If there was a prize for missing the point...



We have a winner. :tumbleweed:
 
mjmountain said:
It's OK to have multiple answers and let people decide based on strength of a reasoned argument, whilst respecting another's opinion. (Even if you know it's wrong).
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This is photography, so any wrong opinion must be held up for scrutiny, the sharer made to see just how completely wrong they were and then forced to admit th the *right* person was right all along. It's a bit like gladiators: you know there will be blood while the crowd cheer on.

;)
 
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