Thinking about mirrorless

Dangermouse

Dangermouse

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Just lately I have been thinking about making the switch from DSLR to Mirrorless, but still undecided.

A couple slight niggles are stopping me taking the plunge that I hope some of you can answer.

What is the shutter lag like, I had a bridge quite a few years ago and the lag was horrible, press the shutter and if you were lucky it took a photo after about 1 second.
Are they any good for airshows, would I notice a difference in speed settings, can you set shutter and aperture in a second using two dial wheels like on my D500 as I only shoot manual.

thats about it I think as the rest of my shooting is landscape where I have lots of time to set up and dont have to act as fast as at airshows.
 
Dangermouse1964 said:
Just lately I have been thinking about making the switch from DSLR to Mirrorless... can you set shutter and aperture in a second using two dial wheels like on my D500 as I only shoot manual.
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Yes, on a Sony A7R2 at least (and no shutterlag).
 
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Dangermouse1964 said:
Just lately I have been thinking about making the switch from DSLR to Mirrorless, but still undecided.

A couple slight niggles are stopping me taking the plunge that I hope some of you can answer.

What is the shutter lag like, I had a bridge quite a few years ago and the lag was horrible, press the shutter and if you were lucky it took a photo after about 1 second.
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What shutterlag? I havent noticed any on Sony A6000 and Fuji XT2

Dangermouse1964 said:
Are they any good for airshows, would I notice a difference in speed settings, can you set shutter and aperture in a second using two dial wheels like on my D500 as I only shoot manual.

thats about it I think as the rest of my shooting is landscape where I have lots of time to set up and dont have to act as fast as at airshows.
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Yes aperture and shutterspeed can be controlled using front and rear comando wheels
 
Funnily enough its the AR72 and XT-2 I have been considering, what sort of IQ can I expect
 
Just looking at mirrorless bodys, whats anyones thoughts on the Oly range
 
I have an Olympus Pen E-PL5 micro4/3 camera which I am very happy with - it is six years old now so a new model will be improved, I would think. Image quality in poor light is not as good as my Canon 80D but it can autofocus better than the Canon in poor light. It is also much lighter - the actual reason I bought it.
 
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I am just going through contenders, the XT-3 is looking very good so far
 
I would visit your friendly local camera shop and have a good fondle to see how well you get on with the X-T's dials. Personally, I like the old style shutter speed dial on the top plate and the aperture rings on the XF lenses (although you can set the bodies up to use the control wheel to deal with the aperture) but some people hate it. In terms of IQ, the SOOC JPEGs are up there with pretty much any crop body of a similar pixel count and the later Fujis work better with raw converters than the earlier ones did. Keep the firmware up to date and shutter lag/VF blackout are reduced. Check out the X-T thread for more (but make sure you're sitting comfortably before you begin!)
 
Hi, if AF performance is important to you, keep the D500, which is one of the best cams in this respect.

I have (among others) a SONY A7R2, I am satisfied with.

But for taking pictures of cars at rallyes at speed I bought a D800 because the AF performance is better.

So, if you can operate (and afford) several systems, go mirrorless, too.

If not, keep your D500!
 
Nod said:
I would visit your friendly local camera shop and have a good fondle to see how well you get on with the X-T's dials. Personally, I like the old style shutter speed dial on the top plate and the aperture rings on the XF lenses (although you can set the bodies up to use the control wheel to deal with the aperture) but some people hate it. In terms of IQ, the SOOC JPEGs are up there with pretty much any crop body of a similar pixel count and the later Fujis work better with raw converters than the earlier ones did. Keep the firmware up to date and shutter lag/VF blackout are reduced. Check out the X-T thread for more (but make sure you're sitting comfortably before you begin!)
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I have been reading for a few days, still get bewildered but I need something lighter, easier to stick in a pocket if needed but cheaper, HAHA mirrorless and cheap in the same comment.
 
You must have read my mind, my next question was AF tracking, in the air aircraft are quick but panning is far easier than something like a car at speed close by, I think the mirrorless would be up to it
 
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Dangermouse1964 said:
I have been reading for a few days, still get bewildered but I need something lighter, easier to stick in a pocket if needed but cheaper, HAHA mirrorless and cheap in the same comment.
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You'll need fairly big pockets for an X-T - both to slip one into and to afford a 3!
 
I run both Fuji XT 1&2 and Olympus EM-1 mkII and Pen-F systems. Both come into there own depending on what I’m shooting. But as most on here well tell you it’s all about the glass you pair with them. Both Fuji’s are gripped and give excellent handling, I tend to run the XT2 with the 56mm f1.2, 16-55mm f2.8 and the 100-400mm and use the XT1 coupled with the 23mm f2 and 35mm f1.4 for street photography.

The EM-1 Is paired with the 12-100mm f4 and the 40-150mm f2.8 Pro and the Pen-f with the 75mm f1.8 and my 30mm Macro f3.5.

Both systems are easy to carry and offer advantages over the other. Neither of the systems suffer from shutter lag.
 
I am no expert, but i have had a close look at most of the mirrorless offerings. I am still of the opinion it is in its infancy and I think I will be holding out for perhaps 2 or 3 years until all the rough edges have been smoothed out. I like the ideas and the way things are moving, but i just feel its a little early to be jumping ship. All the progress is being well documented by the you tubers, and i think its just a matter of patience.
 
gremlin16 said:
I am no expert, but i have had a close look at most of the mirrorless offerings. I am still of the opinion it is in its infancy and I think I will be holding out for perhaps 2 or 3 years until all the rough edges have been smoothed out. I like the ideas and the way things are moving, but i just feel its a little early to be jumping ship. All the progress is being well documented by the you tubers, and i think its just a matter of patience.
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Infancy? Lol
 
Yes @twist, in the grand scheme of things it’s in it’s infancy. Nikon and canon had their first proper stab in 2018, and that has been seen as putting their toes in the water. and Sony have been at it a few years, still in single fingers though. Just look at all the changes with firmware, bugs, lag, banding, card slots.

This is just the start of things to come. If I’m going to drop a few thousand quid on a body, I want to be like a tin of ronseal, my days of being a test pilot are over :)
 
Dave70D said:
X-T2 or X-T3 are very good, but the X-T3 is pretty damn good at high iso and AF is instant on my one with the right lens.
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The XT2 is slightly better performing in low light according to many reviewers. In fact besides video features, there's nothing really between an upgraded 2 and a 3
 
I would check the weight saving you would make. Micro 4/3rds seem to provide the best weight saving

my very Rough workings so far indicate an XT2/3 with 2 lens would be around 1.9kg. D500 with 2 lens would be around 2.2kg so 300g or 12oz saving

Sony A7III with 2 lens would be around 2.05kg only 150g or 6 oz. These are f4 lenses but suspect similar comparison if looking at f2.8
 
Do you know James, I have never seen any images from 4/3rds so will go look
 
gremlin16 said:
Yes @twist, in the grand scheme of things it’s in it’s infancy. Nikon and canon had their first proper stab in 2018, and that has been seen as putting their toes in the water. and Sony have been at it a few years, still in single fingers though. Just look at all the changes with firmware, bugs, lag, banding, card slots.

This is just the start of things to come. If I’m going to drop a few thousand quid on a body, I want to be like a tin of ronseal, my days of being a test pilot are over :)
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Yes caNikon are dipping toes, don't tar everyone with the same brush. Single figures? That's why caNikon are running scared and rushed products to market that can't compete (yet). Fw for mirrorless adds features... What does fw add to dslr, usually nothing. Mirrorless is very much matured and capable of matching and exceeding the best DSLR cameras.

But then you're watching YouTube about them and not actually doing a physical comparison. Some have been using CSCs since the early days alongside their DSLRs.
 
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Might be an expensive change the only morrorless option that is realistically going to be better autofocus than a D500 is the Sony A9. A7III will be close.
 
friend has an olympus OMD EM1 and i cant fault the image quality i have seen both printed to 14inch and digital
I follow Craig Roberts on instagram and Youtube and he solely uses Micro 4/3rds and gets stunning results. Certainly good enough for digital or A3 printing which realistically is as much as most of us will ever do

I have D3400 with variable aperture lenses. Approximately 1.2kg for body and 2 lenses.
my main focus is being outdoors and have a camera to capture those experiances and am starting to find limitations with current kit

Im trying to decide which route to take,

do i get f4 lenses then upgrade to D7500/D500

Do I switch to canon again f4 lens and body

Do i get Fuji XT2/3 - lens choice seems odd compared to 24-70 70-200 of Nikon and Canon

Do I go with an OMD EM1 and adapt to 2x crop factor and again odd lens ranges

Im not invested into Nikon enought to it be costly to change but on the flip side if i choose to stay with Nikon can look ate used glass as it comes up
 
AgentOrange76 said:
I would check the weight saving you would make. Micro 4/3rds seem to provide the best weight saving

my very Rough workings so far indicate an XT2/3 with 2 lens would be around 1.9kg. D500 with 2 lens would be around 2.2kg so 300g or 12oz saving

Sony A7III with 2 lens would be around 2.05kg only 150g or 6 oz. These are f4 lenses but suspect similar comparison if looking at f2.8
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Mirrorless has now got very little to do with weight saving in my opinion. It’s all about the new tech.
 
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twist said:
Except the massive AF update
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Is it massive? as in, over the latest XT2 firmware? I don't remember anyone moaning about the XT2's AF even before the last update, then the 3 came out and suddenly it's a snail?
 
TGphoto said:
Mirrorless has now got very little to do with weight saving in my opinion. It’s all about the new tech.
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That was what I was getting at. The OP's D500 combo doesnt look to be significantly heavier than an A7III
 
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twist said:
Yes caNikon are dipping toes, don't tar everyone with the same brush. Single figures? That's why caNikon are running scared and rushed products to market that can't compete (yet). Fw for mirrorless adds features... What does fw add to dslr, usually nothing. Mirrorless is very much matured and capable of matching and exceeding the best DSLR cameras.

But then you're watching YouTube about them and not actually doing a physical comparison. Some have been using CSCs since the early days alongside their DSLRs.
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Yes I have based all my observations from YouTube at this time. But that is because I am not anywhere near making the jump yet. There is no point me going testing stuff out that I have no intention of buying. I am not so naive to believe everything that is spouted by the youtube crowd, but it makes for a good baseline to base my opinions on. I do like how the mirrorless systems are more tech based and that firmware updates actually provide more features and upgrades. Yes I’m biased towards Nikon due to my lens collection so I am praying for them to catch and then exceed the competition. The only other brand that has caught my eye is the Fuji. But which ever way you look at it, the race is on and the manufacturers are all now pushing each other to achieve more. This can only be good news for us as end users.
 
gremlin16 said:
Yes I have based all my observations from YouTube at this time. But that is because I am not anywhere near making the jump yet. There is no point me going testing stuff out that I have no intention of buying. I am not so naive to believe everything that is spouted by the youtube crowd, but it makes for a good baseline to base my opinions on. I do like how the mirrorless systems are more tech based and that firmware updates actually provide more features and upgrades. Yes I’m biased towards Nikon due to my lens collection so I am praying for them to catch and then exceed the competition. The only other brand that has caught my eye is the Fuji. But which ever way you look at it, the race is on and the manufacturers are all now pushing each other to achieve more. This can only be good news for us as end users.
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So as a Nikon user you know about their poor track record of quality control when you say there's so much wrong with mirrorless cameras? QC that can't be fixed by fw.
 
twist said:
So as a Nikon user you know about their poor track record of quality control when you say there's so much wrong with mirrorless cameras? QC that can't be fixed by fw.
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I don’t know why you keep pushing this back at me. I don’t buy stuff until I am happy that it’s stable and up to the job it was designed for. And that’s not just camera gear. You seem to be just trying to argue for arguements sake. I’m looking forward to getting into mirrorless as I do believe it is the future of photography. I’m just not ready to dive in yet. I like to keep informed about where photography is heading and this is the biggest change in decades. Those who have gone down that road already, I wish them well and thank them for ultimately driving progress, which will one day benefit me.
 
As briefly mentioned about, the major issue for airshows and Motorsport with older m43 is the blackout between frames. I was quite noticeable with the e-1.1 which often meant losing the subject, even when you set the refresh rate to high

It wasn't as bad in the e-m1.2 when I tried it but the d500 is better. The focussing of the Nikon is more accurate too - I something's found shots on the rear screen of the Olympus looked in focus but when on a pc, they weren't. Never had that with the d500.

Since the 1.2 has been released there have been a few SW updates so maybe these things have improved marketedly ? As much as I loved m43 and the pro lenses, I wouldn't go back to them for those subjects
 
gremlin16 said:
I don’t know why you keep pushing this back at me...

Those who have gone down that road already, I wish them well and thank them for ultimately driving progress, which will one day benefit me.
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Maybe Twist has dived in because reading your posts the comments you've made and the fears you have would have perhaps been more justified several years ago but these days things really have moved on in the mirrorless world and arguably the best cameras you can buy now in the enthusiast/pro sub FF and FF markets are not DSLR's but mirrorless.

Dangermouse1964 said:
Just lately I have been thinking about making the switch from DSLR to Mirrorless, but still undecided...
Click to expand...

This may not be relevant to you but for me the biggest advantages of mirrorless are, in no particular order...

- Being able to see the shot, DoF and exposure and all, before I press the shutter. No more unexpectedly blown highlights, no more chimping and reshooting.
- Being able to focus anywhere in the frame and not being limited to focus points clustered around the centre of the frame. No more focusing and recomposing or compromising on composition to hit a focus point.
- Face detect. This really is a revelation and frees me from moving the focus point and leaves me to concentrate on composition and capturing the moment. Eye detect is no doubt wonderful too.
- Having an in view histogram.
- Not having to worry about micro adjusting lenses. Pretty much every shot is smack in focus every time.
- Being able to magnify the image in the evf or on the back screen and being able to manually focus with great accuracy.
- Being able to use just about any manual lens from the film age, easily.

Good luck deciding which way to go.
 
yamahatdm900 said:
I was happy with the X-T2 AF but the X-T3 is a step up from that. Do you actually need the better AF is another question.
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I feel like a rarity these days because super fast AF is about the last feature I look to in new cameras. But mostly I'm shooting still subjects, and when I am shooting faster moving subjects - small birds for example - I can manage with MF, never felt like I needed insanely fast AF.

Right now, the XT2 with the latest firmware is about the best value you can get on the market in terms of quality per price, or bang for buck as the yanks say. I am ever tempted to sell off the G80 to get a nice used one, but I love my IBIS too much :D
 
I've nearly completed the change from Nikon to Fuji. I have two XT2's and an XH1, and a bucket of lenses, they are almost there with focus speeds and shutter lag isn't a problem (For me.).
I can only see things improving, particularly with Fuji's generous attitude to firmware updates.
I use mine mainly in low light fast moving situations so it really tests the system. My main gripe with Nikon (QC and repair costs/time aside) is the way they concentrate the focus points in the central area, moving to Fuji has completely solved this.
 
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