Thinking "film" vs digital.

I read on another forum about someone turning up to shoot something, only for a better funded rival to turn up with a F2 and motordrive and a van full of film
Which may have happened. The reality is that 99% of press photography at that time was carried out by people working to tight budgets and often tight deadlines (you might be astonished by how many jobs came in the day before print night on weekly newspapers)
 
Surely the Box Brownies were the most basic thing available - literally point, press, wind on, repeat? (Hell, the very first ones had a sight rather than a viewfinder!)

Yes very much the simplest of cameras but saying that Large Format kit is basically the same as it was back in the 19th century.
Fair enough, coated lenses, fresnel ground glass screens,accurate shutters but the principal of how the camera actually operates in so far as movements is as it’s always been and the film holders remain similar too albeit usually plastic and of course for sheet film although there is a tog on here fabricating holders for glass plates as we speak!!

I believe that digital backs are also available for LF but even going down that line still leaves the photographer with a camera based on very similar capabilities and construction to what was around well before we were.
 
Shooting was laborious with some shots taking 10 or more minutes to do when in the field if not longer.

I'm puzzled by this comment, unless you were using a plate camera & body movements? I didn't get my first electronic camera until 1987, having only owned & used un-metered cameras before that, and I've shot quite a bit with un-metered cameras since too. It's hard to imaging how, say, a TLR could require 10min for a shot compared to a camera with built in meter taking less time?
 
Large Format kit is basically the same as it was back in the 19th century.


Compared to a DSLR, very complicated to get any sort of result from it though. Hell, I'm not sure I could even load one!
 
These last few posts sent me to my small stock of Wallace Heaton Blue Books and thus onto considering camera prices. It turns out we pay peanuts for our digital kit and don't even have to buy film or developer! Some examples from 1967...
  • Canon FT with 50mm f1.8 £112-17-6d (adjusted for inflation £2014.77)
  • Nikon F with 50mm f1.4 £190-0-0d (adjusted for inflation £3387.67)
  • Leicaflex with 50mm f2.0 £298-4-0d (adjusted for inflation £5313.30)
  • Hasselblad 500EL with 80mm f2.8 £392-3-6d (adjusted for inflation £6989.30)
It's nice to find a silver lining.

:ty:
 
These last few posts sent me to my small stock of Wallace Heaton Blue Books and thus onto considering camera prices. It turns out we pay peanuts for our digital kit and don't even have to buy film or developer! Some examples from 1967...
  • Canon FT with 50mm f1.8 £112-17-6d (adjusted for inflation £2014.77)
  • Nikon F with 50mm f1.4 £190-0-0d (adjusted for inflation £3387.67)
  • Leicaflex with 50mm f2.0 £298-4-0d (adjusted for inflation £5313.30)
  • Hasselblad 500EL with 80mm f2.8 £392-3-6d (adjusted for inflation £6989.30)
It's nice to find a silver lining.

:ty:
One of the economists at work the other day was trying to explain a political point to a younger colleague and what caught my attention was 'the things that we need keep getting more expensive - but it's the things we don't need that get cheaper'. It is a side effect of supply and demand - we don't have to artificially increase demand for food and housing - but there has to be a reason to buy a new telly. That reason is often that it's better than the previous and whats more it costs less.

I do appreciate there are members here who genuinely believe they 'need' camera gear.
 
On my Lumix cameras the focus zones are a nightmare. I keep resetting them but any contact with the screen will move it. Even though i constantly try to "fix"it.

Which is why I hate touch screens. I have one on my tablet, and everytime I pick it up/put it down/change hand grip/pass it to someone to show them something it changes what it's showing/switches to another window/whatever. I am profoundly grateful that the digital camera I use does not have a touchscreen.

Easy touch changes made my mobile phone turn on and call 999 once... No idea how.
 
I'm puzzled by this comment, unless you were using a plate camera & body movements? I didn't get my first electronic camera until 1987, having only owned & used un-metered cameras before that, and I've shot quite a bit with un-metered cameras since too. It's hard to imaging how, say, a TLR could require 10min for a shot compared to a camera with built in meter taking less time?

It may well depend on the image. I have one taken in Southampton where I spent probably about 15 minutes carefully moving my tripod mounted RZ67 until everything aligned as I wanted it. If I can find a postable size file, I'll edit this post to show it.

ModernArchitecturePSfResizedSharpenedA3.jpg
 
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I like that Stephen, and it was a good use of time. :)

The context was around Frank's assertion that manual cameras were laborious and that it could take 10 minutes to set up a shot. That in the context of his later post suggesting that cameras with a built in light meter made photography much faster made me wonder what was special about a conventional all-mechanical & un-metered film camera that could require so much time. The answer might well be composition as it was for you, but that has nothing to do with the level of automation or metering possibilities, so I'm left a little puzzled.

I'm sure his suggestion is that automation in electronic form encouraged the taking of snap shots instead of carefully composed images, but a lack of metering never bothered messrs Kodak and Eastman in that respect.
 
I like that Stephen, and it was a good use of time. :)

The context was around Frank's assertion that manual cameras were laborious and that it could take 10 minutes to set up a shot. That in the context of his later post suggesting that cameras with a built in light meter made photography much faster made me wonder what was special about a conventional all-mechanical & un-metered film camera that could require so much time. The answer might well be composition as it was for you, but that has nothing to do with the level of automation or metering possibilities, so I'm left a little puzzled.

I'm sure his suggestion is that automation in electronic form encouraged the taking of snap shots instead of carefully composed images, but a lack of metering never bothered messrs Kodak and Eastman in that respect.

I've said before, its only nerds like us that notice technical shortcomings in photos. Most people just see the image/subject/time. Some of my favourite pics of all time leave a lot to be desired but the subject/composure/idea carries all before it.
 
Surely the Box Brownies were the most basic thing available - literally point, press, wind on, repeat? (Hell, the very first ones had a sight rather than a viewfinder!)

Yes they were very basic, but then again, the principles of photography are pretty basic too. If you chose your film and subject carefully then it was entirely possible to get some nice looking photos with a box camera, and not just down to luck either.

It just required a bit of forward planning, choice of the right ISO film, hoping the weather forecast was right, and that you could find the right light and subject to suit the parameters/limitations of your camera and film combination. As a young teenager, when the remains of my Saturday job/pocket money permitted, I enjoyed the challenge of shooting E6 slide film with a box camera I'd bought for about 50p from a junk shop. That was great fun, the slides from the 120 roll film seemed huge! I still have a few of the slides I took.

Here's one from around 1979 taken, hand-held, with a 1924 Kodak Brownie box camera on Ektachrome 100 E6 slide film, followed by one taken with the same camera in 2017 on Fuji Acros 100 black and white film. After all those years that basic little camera still works, and so too do the basic principles of photography... and the seemingly magnetic draw the hobby has on us all! :)


[URL='https://flic.kr/p/WfV8Qd']
[/URL]
 
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Yes they were very basic, but then again, the principles of photography are pretty basic too. If you chose your film and subject carefully then it was entirely possible to get some nice looking photos with a box camera, and not just down to luck either.

It just required a bit of forward planning, choice of the right ISO film, hoping the weather forecast was right, and that you could find the right light and subject to suit the parameters/limitations of your camera and film combination. As a young teenager, when the remains of my Saturday job/pocket money permitted, I enjoyed the challenge of shooting E6 slide film with a box camera I'd bought for about 50p form a junk shop. That was great fun, the slides from the 120 roll film seemed huge! I still have a few of the slides I took.

Here's one from around 1979 taken, hand-held, with a 1924 Kodak Brownie box camera on Ektachrome 100 E6 slide film, followed by one taken with the same camera in 2017 on Fuji Acros 100 black and white film. After all those years that basic little camera still works, and so too do the basic principles of photography... and the seemingly magnetic draw the hobby has on us all! :)



Please don't take this the wrong way. ( some of my happiest childhood memories are captured on a Brownie) For the era it was made and the simplicity of design it proves how simple and good a camera can be. Looking critically though they're not great are they. We've come a long way.
 
I would not know, I never used film in my life but to me it seems a minority of film prints I have seen are superior to digital.
Although I suspect a lot of knowledge and skill went into those and not many could pull them off properly.
 
Snip:
Looking critically though they're not great are they. We've come a long way.
I think it probably depends on your definition of great. I'm glad we have incredibly sharp lenses and such high resolution cameras these days, but I also have fun using old kit and (hopefully) matching the certain look and atmosphere that can give to the subject.
 
I would not know, I never used film in my life but to me it seems a minority of film prints I have seen are superior to digital.
Although I suspect a lot of knowledge and skill went into those and not many could pull them off properly.

They are just different to digital.

Modern sensors have caught up in terms of dynamic range, but not in tolerance to the over-exposure found in some colour neg films. If you care about such things, and many don't even notice, then there is a difference in rendering between film and print, and between the different sizes of film (35mm, roll film, sheet film) and also between the different sizes of sensor (1", M43, APS-C, 'full frame', medium format).

35mm film will be very very hard pressed to match the technical resolution of the best full frame digital sensors, but that's not really a problem.
 
I would not know, I never used film in my life but to me it seems a minority of film prints I have seen are superior to digital.
Although I suspect a lot of knowledge and skill went into those and not many could pull them off properly.

Snip:
I think it probably depends on your definition of great. I'm glad we have incredibly sharp lenses and such high resolution cameras these days, but I also have fun using old kit and (hopefully) matching the certain look and atmosphere that can give to the subject.


Both these posts have similar points so I’ve quoted them together. By ‘not great’ and ‘superior to digital’, the default definition is usually sharpness.

All I can say is you mustn’t have seen many prints from film or the definition of superior is about sharpness and resolution which people (including myself once) used as benchmarks for good. The thing is, film images can be and are just as sharp and a dark room print is a thing of beauty. Never do I wish my photos were shot digitally because they would be sharper.
 
Electric Picture Maker vs

Some years back, I finally received my 'inheritance' My Grandad's Kodak Retinette; on bright but otherwise boring spring day O/H's son turned up with his pre-school daughter, so we went to the park. O/H had recenty bought her Nikon Digi-Bridge, I took the Retinette & a roll of film, for the Lols.

Interesting comparison, and I did put up a picture post of it on here, but images seem to have been lost in one of those server re-configurations. A couple of interesting observations though....

1/ After the tear-away tot had given up asking to be shown the back of the old Kodak, and asking, indignantly, as only a 3year old can, "But I cant see a picture! Turn it on for me!".. back home, I shoved the CD from ASDA, where we'd stopped,on the way home, for tea-stuffs in the PC and she was scrolling through pictures, she had been perusing with fascination on paper in an envelope, in the back of the car.... on the 'big' screen, before O/H had cleared down the SD card from the EPM.... so much for 'instant' digi-pics...

2/ So much, too, for the 'slow' of an all manual all mechanical film camera; on arrival I did a quick guestimate of ambient light by f16-sunny, waved a selenium cell light meter about a bit and took some average reflected and ambient light meter readings to confirm/adjust F16-Sunny guestimate, set focus by distance guestimate, picking an aperture to give me a bit of DoF margin around typical subject range... and fired away, tweeking settings only a tad per shot.... A-N-D I got 36 'action' images with a far higher degree of reliability than O/H relying on electronics to set it up shot by shot, and suffering things like shutter lag, or over zoom wobble from the bridge's electrickery....

Conclusion was, that the old tech of an old all manual film camera actually wasn't much, if any, impediment a lot of the time, and an actual advantage for a lot of it.... it did NOT beg an awful lot of faff, and actual back-to back, I probably faffed LESS not having so many options, like a gazillion times zoom to play with, whilst with scant 'know-how' not trying to get on the spot TTL metering and new settings every shot.... The 'automation' of an EPM DIDN'T actually make it much if any 'easier' for the user... or guarantee more better pictures.. it just changed what folk faff with!!!

Which begs mention of the amount of 'Faff' my granddad was renowned for with that camera, and the family trauma of the annual cristmas tree photo, when after a number of hours testing bulbs and stealing the indicator bulbs from the family car to get the fairy lights to work.. (go on show your age.. hands up all who remember similar family tribulations!) and setting up the tripod, the family had all bludgered off to sample the mulled wine and mince tutrtles.. sorry mum, pies...by the time Pops had found a flash bulb and asked everyone to say 'Cheese'!!!

Which is to say, that it has ALWAYS been a case of however much faff you want to make of the job, whether you had, like Pops a 'complicated' 35mm manual camera, a simple point and press 110 instamatic, or a modern Digital Bridge camera, or Smurf-phone...

The automation of modern cameras, whether that's TTL coupled exposure metering, or full auto-focus, on silver halide or CCD sensor array... does NOT make the job any more reliable, you can cockitt up as easy now as you ever have, the number of buttone probably just gives you more excuses when you do....., and you can blame it on a Programmer in Homatsu, rather than having to stuck your own hands up and admit error!
 
In approximately 1972 Konica was the first camera company (as I recall) to develop an SLR camera that employed some aspects of electronic exposure.
Sat on the Record player not many feet away, is the Other Granddads camera, a Konica C35 'range-finder'... I think that the QC passed sticker still on the bottom says 1973.
Wonderful device; 'Aperture Priroty' Automatic exposure, allowed semi-manual control, or you could leave it to the electrickery to pick both aperture and shutter speed. And simple Zone Focusing. There was another set on here I took with that, of a BMW motorbike I spotted outside a pub; that camera needed thankfully long lived batteries (as long as you remembered the lens cap!) but lived in the glove-box of the car for such impromptu photo-ops! Good example of the amount of faff being in the eye of the camera holder! At the base level it was as point and press friendly as any Instamatic, but if you wanted you could faff till your hearts desire, with aperture priority, manual focus by distance scale, and the ASA dial for exposure compensation!
 
Both these posts have similar points so I’ve quoted them together. By ‘not great’ and ‘superior to digital’, the default definition is usually sharpness.

All I can say is you mustn’t have seen many prints from film or the definition of superior is about sharpness and resolution which people (including myself once) used as benchmarks for good. The thing is, film images can be and are just as sharp and a dark room print is a thing of beauty. Never do I wish my photos were shot digitally because they would be sharper.
Sharpness is only great if you want an image to be sharp, and there's far more to a photograph than sharpness.

You're quite right, sharpness isn't a modern achievement, and it's certainly not exclusive to digital. Here's a shot from an early 1950s 'consumer grade', pocket-sized, folding camera that produces 16 shots on a roll of 120 film, taken on 400 ISO film. Bear in mind, this is a home scan of the film using a cheapish flatbed film scanner... imagine how much more sharpness and detail a professionally done drum scan of the film would have produced (not that this 'record shot' type photo would merit the expense of that!).

 
to me it seems a minority of film prints I have seen are superior to digital.
I'm puzzled about what your criteria are in making that statement. Are they technical? Emotional? Cultural? Or what? You're not telling us much.

To my mind all forms of media can be equally valid, depending on the content and how they're used. It's not meant to be a contest.
 
A definite 'problem' for some recent-ish film photography (not on TP) is that people have presented really crappy images shot on film and lauded them because they were film, rather than because they had any value in themselves. There's no merit in the medium unless that medium forces a result that is expressive in some fashion, though worth remembering that we see things differently and appeciate different aspects.
 
I'm puzzled about what your criteria are in making that statement. Are they technical? Emotional? Cultural? Or what? You're not telling us much.

To my mind all forms of media can be equally valid, depending on the content and how they're used. It's not meant to be a contest.

Why should I go into it only for a nit picker to quote what I said and try to put it down somehow lol. Nice try
 
Why should I go into it only for a nit picker to quote what I said and try to put it down somehow lol. Nice try
The thing is: if you make a sweeping statement like "to me it seems a minority of film prints I have seen are superior to digital" on a forum like this then you must expect to be challenged.
 
A definite 'problem' for some recent-ish film photography (not on TP) is that people have presented really crappy images shot on film and lauded them because they were film, rather than because they had any value in themselves.

Aside from potential shortcomings with the subject and/or composition, I think quite a bit of what you refer to is probably down to poor technique, and/or deficiencies when scanning/digitising the negatives.

One of the things I do when I'm considering trying a make/type of film I've not used before is to do a word search on Flickr and look at the results others have had with that film. In doing so, I often see a big difference between the image quality of some of the photos.

I've also seen reviews of old film cameras that are accompanied by poor-quality or low resolution scans, which I think could well put some potential first-time film camera buyers off. These have often been reviews of cameras (and lens combinations) I own or have owned, so I know the image quality to expect from them.

I think there are quite a few myths about film photography these days, one of which is about image quality from 35mm film. To give some idea of what can be achieved from modern 35mm film and a decent SLR with good quality lens, here's one taken on Kodak Ektar 100 print film with a Canon EOS-3 fitted with a 24-105 L IS lens and scanned at high resolution by a good photo lab (the sort of scan that's easily available, rather than a professional lab drum scan, which would have produced more detail still). Click on the photo to view full size in Flickr. I hope someone finds this useful.

 
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The thing is: if you make a sweeping statement like "to me it seems a minority of film prints I have seen are superior to digital" on a forum like this then you must expect to be challenged.

They can challenge but I don't have to get into it with someone I think is just looking to argue over it and nit pick what I say with quotes lol.
 
For me, the overwhelming advantage of digital over film is that digital enables a much higher degree of personal involvement in the picture *if the photographer is willing to put the effort in*. It's possible to make the image your own in a way that was previously extremely difficult.

The idea of getting it right in camera is very laudable, but also very limiting and certainly impossible in many instances, even for someone extremely capable. A majority of photographers never had access to a darkroom, and even fewer to a colour darkroom, putting the final image as a product of their photography into the hands of messrs trueprint et al, or possibly a specialist printer if they were well heeled. While it's true that there is an enormous sense of achievement from making your own prints compared to adjusting a photo in Lightroom, when it actually comes to getting the final print, one is much more likely to end up with the print that you imagined and wanted from lightroom unless you were shooting with the characteristics and limitations of film in mind.

I'm not opposed to film photography in any way - there are 3 rolls of Tri-X set withing 2 feet of me right now - but as a medium with creative and expressive potential, digital wins hands down in my opinion.
 
I like using both, I started out in the days before digital. IME, film shot and processed properly and digital shot properly should look pretty similar.

One of these was shot with an old T90 on Velvia 100F, the other on an EOS 20D.
16041545823_d00891b696_h.jpg

16660075261_bd5014cc55_h.jpg


Not quite as similar in their taken angle but between these two, one is an RZ67 using portra 400 and the other a nikon D810.
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You are allowed to use manual on digital and try and get it right in camera as so many people say is the thing they miss, You don't have to hand over any brain cells when you buy one. You are allowed to go out and only 2 shots if you wish or maybe even buy a small card and take 36 shots on it.
 
Snip:
You are allowed to use manual on digital
But don't forget to take it off auto ISO, otherwise it's not on full manual because the camera is changing the ISO to suit what it thinks the exposure should be. Alternatively, buy a good camera and select P, A or S (P, AV, TV) to suit your subject and let the camera do the work, as it will probably get it right a lot quicker and more often than most photographers, and you can always dial in some - or + exposure compensation to taste. Putting a camera on M doesn't automatically mean a person is a 'proper' photographer, and most of the time these days it's pretty unnecessary! And on that bombshell... ;)
 
Snip:
But don't forget to take it off auto ISO, otherwise it's not on full manual because the camera is changing the ISO to suit what it thinks the exposure should be. Alternatively, buy a good camera and select P, A or S (P, AV, TV) to suit your subject and let the camera do the work, as it will probably get it right a lot quicker and more often than most photographers, and you can always dial in some - or + exposure compensation to taste. Putting a camera on M doesn't automatically mean a person is a 'proper' photographer, and most of the time these days it's pretty unnecessary! And on that bombshell... ;)

At least you’ve missed my point completely. I think it’s ridiculous that people think because you don’t use film you aren’t a proper photographer. Irony is obviously just as much a lost art as “proper photography”
 
I think it’s ridiculous that people think because you don’t use film you aren’t a proper photographer. Irony is obviously just as much a lost art as “proper photography”
Fanaticism seems to be ever more common generally. Just be glad the film fanatics don't lob bombs! (and stay at least 6 feet away from anyone with a heavy film camera on a long strap) :exit:
 
At least you’ve missed my point completely. I think it’s ridiculous that people think because you don’t use film you aren’t a proper photographer. Irony is obviously just as much a lost art as “proper photography”
I don't think very many people do think that way, although I seem to recall a few people seemed to think that when auto exposure and autofocus SLRs first came out.
I enjoy taking photographs with digital and film cameras, and I also know the difference between irony and sarcasm! ;) :giggle:
 
The fundamental difference between Film & Widgetal is an electrical sensor array vs a bit of silver halide smeared glass/celluloid/polyester.

Around that, there need not be much if any difference twixt cameras; you could stick an electric sensor into a tea-caddy with a pin-hole in it, like a pioneering era film camera if you wanted, and it could be just as convoluted to use.

There is no compulsion with digital to post process, just as how with film there is no compulsion to self develop and print, you may send film to a commercial lab, like tru-print or boots!

Ergo, there 'need' be bog all difference in the actual user involvement or skill in the actual practice of taking a photo, or preparing it for viewing.

Where there IS significant difference is in films 'response curve' or how much light it takes to tickle the silver halide crystals into turning grey... which it does in utterly analogue and stepless fashion, unlike digital that gets a computer to look at the electric out-put of a sensor cell, then decide whether that is brighter or dimmer than the cell next to it, and assigns a pretty arbitrarily number to that cell output... in a sampled stepped threshold manner rather than step-less. So they CAN have a slightly different 'look' especially if printed on paper.

Consequently you DO get a different feel with film.... and in broad terms it tends to be a lot less 'clinical'... and usually more subtle.... It is often said that you only get around six or seven stops between full black and complete white with wigital, where negative film may give you nine or ten (Slide something closer to widgetal)...

Whether this makes any real odds, offers advantage to get or not a shot, or adds any artistic effect, is utterly subjective....

As is, the way you 'may' be more inclined to work with either medium.... as earlier comment; you could work fast with a full coupled, Through-Taking-Lens metered camera, winders and zoom lenses, pretty much as you may with a Digital camera. In fact the first Digital SLR's were essentially the last of the line Fully Automatic, TTL coupled, winder incorporated, Auto-focus film cameras with a CCD sensor where the film trap should have been!

How much you wish to faff with the camera has ALWAYS been pretty much up to you, the user, and the image capture medium really makes bog all odds to that!

So this argument descends down into a skew debate between approaches, and completely looses any relevance.

Bottom line.... if you like to faff, film is wonderful, and you can pick up any number of cracking film cameras second hand for relative pennies. (you always have I think, but still!)

Whether you want the ease of use of a point and press, or the involvement of an SLR or larger format camera; there is a plethora of old film cameras out there to play with.

Just for example; in the last five or six years I have spent something in the order of £2K on an entry level DSLR and a couple of lenses and batteries, and could have bought a heck of a lot of film for that money!

I actually haven't spent much if anything on any of my film cameras in the last thirty years; but:- my favourite 35mm SLR is a Sigma MK1 'Richoch replica', from the early 1970's that fell out of some-one's loft clearance in the early 90's, I built up an all prime 'pocket money' outfit around it rummaging through the bargain bins in the camera shop when I popped in for film! Might command perhaps £20 on e-bay now, and the lenses maybe £5 each. pick the focal lengths you like.

My most used camera of all time is an Olympus XA2 that was an 11th birthday present, and sore abused for two decades and retired when I was given two much less used examples. Again a lot of camera for an e-bay value of maybe £25. In similar vein. I have a fantastic 120 Medium Format Folder, that was bequeathed to me, but worth maybe £20 on e-bay in good working order, and offers astounding image quality from its Ziess lens and 6x9cm negative!

Oh-Kay... these are cheap and engaging, but they don't make digital pictures to put on my TV screen... so, add a scanner.... yet again, at the skinny end, there are 'cheap' web-cam type scanners that will turn a negative or slide into a digi-pic at pretty acceptable quality for maybe £30 brand new. If you want to get a bit more precious about the job, then an old dedicated film scanner might be procured for under £50 2nd hand, and a flat-bed transparency scanner, that could scan medium format, still under £100...

Its STILL all in cheap, compared to kitting up in digital!

And you can, as pretty much ANY hobby spend as much or as little as you like, and get as 'involved' and waste as much time and money faffing as you can afford.....

Just for comparison; An entry Level DSLR with one lens card and battery and makers editing software will probably cost 'about' £500.

For that you could buy an old Practika SLR with equivalent zoom lens for £50 perhaps; A web-cam scanner for £30, and be away, with film and commercial processing for maybe £10 a roll of 36... for cheap, you could add a changing bag and dev tank, and do your own B&W or colour films for perhap £5 a time.. and get maybe 3ooo pictures for the price of just getting an entry level DSLR; start expanding on that and with old manual focus lenses at pocket money prices, and you can STILL do a heck of a lot of photography for your money.... and by nature get very very involved in the process and do so much more than you could or likely ever would with digital messing with sliders in Photo-Shop! Which you still can and likely would with scans!

So Film STILL offers a cheap way in no matter how precious you want to get, and how involved you want to be....

And IF your step out of the main stream and look at less common film cameras, 35mm compacts and range finders or 120 folders etc, there are even better 'bargains' top be had.

That Practika SLR for example, likely to command £50 on the bay, is by dint of being an SLR and looking like people expect an old 35mm SLR to look like, commands something of a premium. My Sigma Richoch replica, is much more camera but probably no more expensive on the bay. I have a few old Olympua OM's, and OM10's particularly have aways been 'cheap'; ISTR that brand new in the shop in 1981 they were approx £90 with lens. At the same time, the P&S XA2 was the same price, but now where the OM10, because its silver and is an SLR fetches maybe half what it did new 40 years ago, the XA as a 'compact'might fetch just £20 or £30, 1/2 or less the price of an equivalent price SLR did. Similarly whilst an aspirational medium format camera like a Mamiya or Hassablad might fetch relatively strong prices, old 120 folders or Twin-Lens Reflex dont, so you can buy some cracking higher end old film cameras for relative peanuts, these days, And for very little investment get an awful lot of camera for your money and an awful lot more faff and engagement or involvement.... especially if you add kitchen-sink-souping to the deal.

Ultimately its a Tea or Coffee question.... IF you want a cup of tea, you wont be convinced very easily of the merits of a coffee... its just a matter of taste.... BUT the options are there, and depending what you like and or want BOTH may have merit... but FILM still does have a LOT going for it, and the possible adventures to be had in faff-photography are legion, and incredibly cheap (relatively)!

And if you want to explore this photography lark, FILM is a great way to go, in ALL the options it opens up to let you play... and for oh-so-little, at least initial, investment.. beyond that, like I said, like any hobby you can wast as much time and money as you want!
 
I hadn't either; from the brief search I could only turn up one relevant link. It appears to be a Ricoh Singlex with an Edixa/Pentax screw mount (reverting to 60s terminology for the 42mm screw thread). The Ricoh Singlex created a bit of a stir when it came out (I recall reading the AP review when it first appeared), as it used the Nikon mount allowing Nikon lenses to be used on a cheaper body. This last wouldn't be relevant to the Sigma, obviously.
 
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