Thinking of ditching the D700

jamesoliverstone

jamesoliverstone

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Well, there is no denying that as a photographer that mostly shoots when travelling, the D700 and its lenses are a heavy beast.

I can't help but think that the NEX-7 is going to be a better choice of camera for me...

I love my GF1, but the small sensor and the IQ just isn't up to the job professionally to get rid of the D700, but the APS-C 24mp sensor in the NEX-7 is really making me think hard about selling up. Plus, it has a hot shoe and full manual control...

Plus, think how much lighter the NEX-7 with a few primes will be! Also, I can see my using some of the M-mount lenses with the NEX-7 too to get some rather juicy optics.

2 days ago I was on the verge of moving to a Leica M9, but the more I read, I find that the NEX-7 is far better value for money.

Thoughts?

Do you think the NEX-7 could be the camera to make others ditch high level DSLR's?
 
Of course though, would I ever be able to get close to the D700 and the 85mm 1.4

Its by far my most used combo, and would need to see if I could find any equivalent combo in the replacement. this alone makes it worth owning the Nikon...
 
Seeing as you were considering an M9 (and I'm therefore assuming some financial flexibility), why not try the NEX-7 alongside the D700 for a while? That'd let you know what you'll be gaining and giving up in such a switch far better than people here could, as I don't think many have an NEX-7 yet :p

The stuff online seems to suggest that sensor is very, very good.
 
ausemmao said:
Seeing as you were considering an M9 (and I'm therefore assuming some financial flexibility), why not try the NEX-7 alongside the D700 for a while? That'd let you know what you'll be gaining and giving up in such a switch far better than people here could, as I don't think many have an NEX-7 yet :p

The stuff online seems to suggest that sensor is very, very good.
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Yup true, but as I know the NEX-7 isn't out yet, I just wondered if there were others who also see quite a shift in the market here. What I need to do is get my grubby mitts on one and have a go... I hope my local jessops will stock it ;)
 
Oh, there's certainly a shift. I think anyone can see most of the pieces needed to obsolete (in the way that DSLRs obsoleted medium format film) the DSLR are here or very close. The main one missing is battery performance, as we've now come to expect 1200-4000 shots (grip/battery dependent) from bodies, which will be difficult to achieve from a camera with an always-on EVF.

On sensor phase detect and high resolution (4 megadot), high refresh rate (120Hz would be the threshold I think) EVFs remove the rationale for the mirror, and the datarates coming off the sensor mean that metering does not need a separate sensor and very high still framerates and downsampled video is imminent.

The question is whether everything is completely there yet, or whether it takes another couple of years.
 
scottthehat said:
madness simple as that, dont do it you will regreat it.
maybe not the regreat the leica but dam thats a shed load of money, but the best option from the d700 if you can live with mf.
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Trust me, a while ago I would have agreed with you, but with sensor technology rapidly getting better, I am not sure that the increase in IQ from the A77 sensor in the NEX-7 is worth lugging all that gear around. The main drawback for me on the D700 is weight. With the NEX-7 I can have that, a couple of lenses and my macbook. That backpack would be much smaller and lighter than the one I just dragged around the jungle...

Trust me, I love my D700, but I need to find an alternative. I just don't relish the idea of that backpack when I head to nepal and vietnam next year. Its the one thing that just ruins my travels.

If I can shoot ultra shallow DOF portraits with a similar field of view to my 85mm with really good quality and RAW, plus my SB's off camera, then I really can't see me ever needing a full-size SLR for the work I mainly do.

Laudrup said:
A NEX-7 with the new Zeiss 24mm f/1.8 might be an idea.
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I had my eye on that, but I just wish I could find a prime that would be around the 85mm effective field of view on that system... I guess the only option is an adapter and a lens from a different system.

Either that, or mount my 85mm on the NEX :D
 
ausemmao said:
Oh, there's certainly a shift. I think anyone can see most of the pieces needed to obsolete (in the way that DSLRs obsoleted medium format film) the DSLR are here or very close. The main one missing is battery performance, as we've now come to expect 1200-4000 shots (grip/battery dependent) from bodies, which will be difficult to achieve from a camera with an always-on EVF.

On sensor phase detect and high resolution (4 megadot), high refresh rate (120Hz would be the threshold I think) EVFs remove the rationale for the mirror, and the datarates coming off the sensor mean that metering does not need a separate sensor and very high still framerates and downsampled video is imminent.

The question is whether everything is completely there yet, or whether it takes another couple of years.
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Yup true, but for the weight of my 85mm prime alone, I could carry 6 3rd party batteries that would last me a week of shooting ;)

I think its going to be a definite in a few years that these smaller cameras will have affordable full frame sensors that will be way better than the current ones, but we aren't there yet, but that NEX-7 is damn damn close to it and I just can't ignore it.

Since I stopped shooting commercial work, and have focused on travel / documentary, I am desperately looking for reasons to keep all my pro gear, but I just can't find them...
 
M9, M9, M9, M9, M9,M9, M9, M9, M9, M9,M9, M9, M9, M9, M9,M9, M9, M9, M9, M9,M9, M9, M9, M9, M9,M9, M9, M9, M9, M9,M9, M9, M9, M9, M9,M9, M9, M9, M9, M9,M9, M9, M9, M9, M9,M9, M9, M9, M9, M9,M9, M9, M9, M9, M9,M9, M9, M9, M9, M9,M9, M9, M9, M9, M9,M9, M9, M9, M9, M9,M9, M9, M9, M9, M9!

Your style really benefits from the advantages that full frame has over crop sensors and quite frankly I think you would be mad to go for a cropper the way you shoot. If you really want something smaller then the only thing for you is an M9. Sorry!
 
Get a good 50mm on the NEX-7 and that will be 75mm with the 1.5 crop factored in.
 
ausemmao said:
(in the way that DSLRs obsoleted medium format film)
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I think that not many would agree with that. Well scanned MF film images still knock the socks off FF DSLRs. We have people on TP who have abandoned DSLRs for MF film commercially.
 
menthel said:
I think that not many would agree with that. Well scanned MF film images still knock the socks off FF DSLRs. We have people on TP who have abandoned DSLRs for MF film commercially.
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There's a reason I said in the way DSLRs obsoleted MF. I probably should have put obsoleted in inverted commas. Think of all the things MF film used to be used for that FF DSLRs are now, or the things that can be done with FF DSLRs that couldn't with MF. MF film and digital are technically better IQ wise in optimal situations, and where that is paramount it is still used. But for many applications, the IQ barrier is a "good enough" barrier, not "absolute best". For that stuff, it's been replaced. That's what I think will happen to DSLRs. They won't disappear because there will still be things they are better at, and some will just prefer the feel. But they (especially crop sensor DSLRs) will become niche. Does that explain what I meant better?
 
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Well, I think I have come to a decision. I think I might sell my gf1 and the lenses, plus most of my nikon lenses and the grip.

then buy an NEX-7.

then I can have an ungripped D700, 85mm & 50mm which will be a lot lighter and use this for my serious portraits, then have the NEX-7 slung around my neck for everything else.

I think that would be a much better solution for the way I work.
 
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menthel said:
M9, M9, M9, M9, M9,M9, M9, M9, M9, M9,M9, M9, M9, M9, M9,M9, M9, M9, M9, M9,M9, M9, M9, M9, M9,M9, M9, M9, M9, M9,M9, M9, M9, M9, M9,M9, M9, M9, M9, M9,M9, M9, M9, M9, M9,M9, M9, M9, M9, M9,M9, M9, M9, M9, M9,M9, M9, M9, M9, M9,M9, M9, M9, M9, M9,M9, M9, M9, M9, M9,M9, M9, M9, M9, M9!

Your style really benefits from the advantages that full frame has over crop sensors and quite frankly I think you would be mad to go for a cropper the way you shoot. If you really want something smaller then the only thing for you is an M9. Sorry!
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Shut It!!!!! :LOL:

I really want one :love:
 
ausemmao said:
There's a reason I said in the way DSLRs obsoleted MF. I probably should have put obsoleted in inverted commas. Think of all the things MF film used to be used for that FF DSLRs are now, or the things that can be done with FF DSLRs that couldn't with MF. MF film and digital are technically better IQ wise in optimal situations, and where that is paramount it is still used. But for many applications, the IQ barrier is a "good enough" barrier, not "absolute best". For that stuff, it's been replaced. That's what I think will happen to DSLRs. They won't disappear because there will still be things they are better at, and some will just prefer the feel. But they (especially crop sensor DSLRs) will become niche. Does that explain what I meant better?
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Its sad that adequate trumps best because of convenience but I understand you completely.

jamesoliverstone said:
Shut It!!!!! :LOL:

I really want one :love:
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So do I but its not going to happen. Yet!
 
That backpack would be much smaller and lighter than the one I just dragged around the jungle...

Trust me, I love my D700, but I need to find an alternative. I just don't relish the idea of that backpack when I head to nepal and vietnam next year
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My first thoughts would be the robustness of the NEX-7, I doubt its anywhere near as good as the D700
 
I went from a D700 to an M9. Not having to carry about the weight of a 24-70/70-200VR II etc made taking pictures fun again. I also picked up a Sony NEX-5 with M adaptor which is fun to use and I'll probably buy a NEX-7 in time.

If I was going for a NEX-7 I'd go for the Zeiss 24mm and get an adaptor for some manual focus Contax/M glass or F mount as the 18-55mm isn't great quality.
 
I don't see battery life as much of an issue, Nex batts are tiny and a fraction of the cost of the likes of a D3 battery so owning and carrying spares is no hassle. What is definitely missing though is quality E-mount glass. Yeah you can use almost any lens with an adaptor but the adaptors iv seen/used really haven't been all that great and your limited (though Leica owners won't see it as s limitation) to manual focus. I'll certainly bf having s play with s Nex7 when it's available and pending on the focus indication opyions in the viewfinder I'll probably ditch my 5d for one.
 
Assuming you can get a an a-mount to e-mount adaptor for the nex which retains AF and metering then you have the whole world of sony/minolta glass opened up to you too.

I wonder how the buffer compares in the NEX-7 to the A77? The A77 one is a bit poor at 14 or so RAWs (still marginally better than a D7000 with 10).
 
srichards said:
Assuming you can get a an a-mount to e-mount adaptor for the nex which retains AF and metering then you have the whole world of sony/minolta glass opened up to you too.

I wonder how the buffer compares in the NEX-7 to the A77? The A77 one is a bit poor at 14 or so RAWs (still marginally better than a D7000 with 10).
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There is an adaptor (I'm pretty sure) but it's a massive big thing so not really practical. Manual focus using the screen is alright with the focus peaking but for me to make it my only camera it'd have to be a fair whack better through the viewfinder.
 
The NEX-7 in manual focus with an adaptor will be nothing like on an M9 though. The new focus peaking on the NEX series is helpful, but I get faster and more accurate manual focusing on the rangefinder than on the NEX.

An advantage of the NEX-7 though is that if down the line you do begin to miss AF, you can at least get it back. With the M9, you can't. Shooting an M9 is fun though, the metering is centre-weighted only too. Very different experience :)
 
jamesoliverstone said:
Just got back from having a play with the NEX-5n. Very nice piece of kit, so I think my mind has been made up on the NEX-7 :)

Time to sell all my glass :D
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Well, I think you need to try some m lenses on it. I am actually thinking of grabbing a cheapo Nex-3 to see how my 35mm summicron and 50mm voigtlander work with it.
 
I moved from fullframe to m4/3 some time ago as I'd convinced myself a wanted something lighter and more practical for day to day use.

It was great ....... for a few weeks.

Then I wanted my SLR back.

Laudrup said:
I went from a D700 to an M9. Not having to carry about the weight of a 24-70/70-200VR II etc made taking pictures fun again.
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In fairness you didn't have to have the 24-70 and the 70-200 on your D700, there are a number of smaller prime options.

Do people really think mirrorless technology is there?

I will admit my only experience has been with several older m4/3 bodies and the Fuji x100 but on these bodies the limitations were there. The slower AF system, the all but useless EVFs...
 
Found this in the luminous landscape review:

"The current seven lens E mount line-up for the NEX-7 is augmented by the more than 30 Sony and Zeiss lenses in A mount that can now be used with full automation and Phase Detection autofocus using the new LA-EA2 lens adaptor. This device looks in pictures as if it will be bulky, but in fact it isn't, and when combined with all except the largest lenses forms a relatively compact and easily handleable package."

They were very complementary about the EVF too. Saying it was as good, if not better, than standard OVF on lower priced DSLRs.
 
gingerweasel said:
In fairness you didn't have to have the 24-70 and the 70-200 on your D700, there are a number of smaller prime options.
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I did look at the G primes, and already had a 50 1.8/135mm f/2 DC and 105 VR, but I didn't fancy the plastic G primes and figured if I was going down the prime route I may as well go for the best quality you can get on 35mm.

That Sony adaptor does look in all the pics quite bulky, and for me takes away the point of cameras like the NEX f you are putting gigantic lenses on it.
 
I have a 5D and a Siggy 85mm f1.4 is almost permanent welded to the front but it's such a big heavy combination that I hardly use it. My 20D is lighter but my G1 with 25mm f0.95 is lighter still and in good light there really is negligible detectable IQ difference between any of these combinations and I'd probably make a full move to MFT if Panny could up the quality of their sensors a little and bring out lenses that interest me rather than the endless stream of f3.5-5.6 kit zooms and the odd prime with no distance markings that preoccupy them.

I haven't seriously considered a move to M9 as for me the disadvantages would be too great. Namely the loss of macro and no ability to focus on off centre subjects.

A large sensor CSC doesn't appeal to me either as although the bodies are small the lenses are large and although the size and weight of the combination will be reduced over even APS-C I personally think that the smaller bodies and lenses of the DSLR like Panny G series are more attractive.
 
I bought and played with an A77 and had to send it back with a non-correctable firmware bug. The bug has now been fixed and replacements will be around from mid-October. My first impressions of the A77 sensor, which is the same as that in the Nex-7, is that it is noisy. Even with iso 200 there is low level grain. Having said that, the detail that can be obtained with top level glass is astonishing, and the noise isn't that difficult to get down to reasonable levels up to iso 3200.
But be aware that your D700 is in a completely different league, and is still one of the undisputed champions of high iso photography. Think long and hard before getting rid of it all.
Personally I'd keep the D700 and a couple of selected zooms. Get the Nex7 and get used to it before abandoning the Nikon altogether.
 
jamesoliverstone said:
2 days ago I was on the verge of moving to a Leica M9, but the more I read, I find that the NEX-7 is far better value for money.

Thoughts?

Do you think the NEX-7 could be the camera to make others ditch high level DSLR's?
Click to expand...

Personally I think the best option might well be to wait for awhile and see whether we get a FF mirrorless released by someone like Canon or Fuji.
 
Well, I have definitely decided to go to a smaller system that will suit my needs better, hence me selling all my gear on here ;)

I will however sit on the decision for a while as I am interested to see what Fuji is planning... plus I want to get some hands on time with the NEX-7. Also, I am still tempted with an M9 :D
 
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