CT
TPer Emeritus
- Messages
- 26,617
- Edit My Images
- Yes
Thinking of ditching the D700
- Thread starter jamesoliverstone
- Start date
CT
TPer Emeritus
- Messages
- 26,617
- Edit My Images
- Yes
G
gingerweasel
Guest
I made the mistake of handling an NEX-5 today whilst out shopping. They actually feel really good in the hand, which I wasn't expecting. Snappy AF, and more interestingly for me really good shallow depth of field (using the 18-55 @ 55mm - f5.6).
The NEX-7 is a little pricey for me though, even if I did want to go that way. All I'd really want is a fast prime that could be used as a good all-rounder (street, family, portraiture). It would need to be small to fit with the body and be tac sharp.
The NEX-7 is a little pricey for me though, even if I did want to go that way. All I'd really want is a fast prime that could be used as a good all-rounder (street, family, portraiture). It would need to be small to fit with the body and be tac sharp.
- Messages
- 4,903
- Name
- Graham
- Edit My Images
- No
Personally I can't wait to get my hands on a 5n + viewfinder of Nex-7 and some nice Zeiss glass 
fixedimage
Suspended / Banned
- Messages
- 902
- Edit My Images
- No
The same has probably been said of most camera formats when they emerged.
I see what your saying but I don't think it'd be press photographers that were reluctant to use new/different tech- I've seen a guy shooting video for the AP on a Canon S90, but I can imagine that turning up to shoot a wedding with something as small as a NEX might not give your client the right impression.
fixedimage
Suspended / Banned
- Messages
- 902
- Edit My Images
- No
Well yeah, Sony really need to work on the lens lineup before things like this can happen. ATM the only E-mount 200mm lenses are f6.3 or something. I'm surprised the likes of Sgima haven't broken into the mirrorless lens market yet. Obviously their current designs are all for SLR cameras so it's not just a case of whacking a different mount on a current lens but the sooner it does happen the better.
- Messages
- 3,050
- Name
- Dean
- Edit My Images
- Yes
If the Sony delivers the results, what's the problem? It's smaller, easier to carry and if the only downside is to look less like a pro journo, I can see a few reasons to switch there.
Personally I'm not so keen on the need to use mount adapters, particularly as the AF one looks like the old attempts at getting FD lenses to AF. Still, horses for courses, beauty in the eye of the beerholder and all that.
- Messages
- 949
- Name
- Ian
- Edit My Images
- Yes
gingerweasel said:
I did exactly the same yesterday. I was really surprised how well it performed. It's a lot smaller, lighter, and the images appeared really pleasing to the eye, with sharp detail, and depth of field looked shallow, too.
Could Sony be teetering on the edge of the next new camera format here, with no complex shutter to go wrong, and a lightweight unobtrusive body?
Why does that matter?
CT
TPer Emeritus
- Messages
- 26,617
- Edit My Images
- Yes
Quite! I don't think anyone is seriously suggesting the NEX as a complete replacement for a DSLR for everyone. Pros and paps who need a powerful flash aren't going to be taking it up any time soon when the flashgun is likely to be bigger than the camera. The fact is Sony seem to have produced a compact camera which appears to able to produce as good an image as any of the crop sensor DSLRs currently out there which is a tremendous achievement. Pros will snap it up in droves but it doesn't mean they'll all be dumping their DSLRs on ebay - they'll use it to its strengths alongside their other kit.
- Messages
- 949
- Name
- Ian
- Edit My Images
- Yes
ausemmao said:
I totally agree! Just because it's a smaller package, it doesn't mean it cannot be an acceptable alternative to a pro spec kit? One day, the way Sony are going now, and pushing ahead with mirrorless technology, could be the standard that everyone else follows. One day the need for a d3 or 1d size bodies could become obsolete through technology.
If fast lenses become more available without the need to use adaptors, I for one would be really interested. It would half the size of the backpack needed, reduce the size of the tripod required, and it would make it so much easier to carry the gear around.
- Messages
- 6,912
- Edit My Images
- Yes
They can make them as small as they want, but if it hasn't got an optical viewfinder, at least for now with the current tech, then I wouldn't be interested. :nono:
But then it's the size too. I have the camera I have because it feels comfortable in my hand, and that is the size of the grip I hold.
I find some smaller DSLRs uncomfortable with a big lens on, and that is a with a grip more shaped to the hand.
I personally think that they look a bit silly with a tiny body with a big lens on. I don't know how the Sony's feel with a larger lens on. :shrug: Yes, some of the lenses will be smaller, but if start getting large zoom lenses, or even getting adapters to put DSLR lenses on, then this type of image jumps into my head, only scaled down slightly.
But then it's the size too. I have the camera I have because it feels comfortable in my hand, and that is the size of the grip I hold.
I find some smaller DSLRs uncomfortable with a big lens on, and that is a with a grip more shaped to the hand.
I personally think that they look a bit silly with a tiny body with a big lens on. I don't know how the Sony's feel with a larger lens on. :shrug: Yes, some of the lenses will be smaller, but if start getting large zoom lenses, or even getting adapters to put DSLR lenses on, then this type of image jumps into my head, only scaled down slightly.
- Messages
- 41,961
- Name
- 'Gramps'
- Edit My Images
- No
They can make them as small as they want, but if it hasn't got an optical viewfinder, at least for now with the current tech, then I wouldn't be interested. :nono:
But then it's the size too. I have the camera I have because it feels comfortable in my hand, and that is the size of the grip I hold.
I find some smaller DSLRs uncomfortable with a big lens on, and that is a with a grip more shaped to the hand.
I personally think that they look a bit silly with a tiny body with a big lens on. I don't know how the Sony's feel with a larger lens on. :shrug: Yes, some of the lenses will be smaller, but if start getting large zoom lenses, or even getting adapters to put DSLR lenses on, then this type of image jumps into my head, only scaled down slightly.
Agree entirely, unless a totally new lens technology comes to the surface there is no way this could replace the DSLR for its lens flexibility. All very fine for short to medium lenses but where do you go when you need more?
I can see it now as the wildlife photographer shows off his work ... "Where did you say the kite was?" ... "It's there ... in the top corner ... see the spec?" ... "Sorry, I thought that was dust!".
Sure there is a place for compact and no doubt there will be a place for these but sorry I can't see them taking over until a lot of other things fit into place.
- Messages
- 949
- Name
- Ian
- Edit My Images
- Yes
They can make them as small as they want, but if it hasn't got an optical viewfinder, at least for now with the current tech, then I wouldn't be interested. :nono:
I personally think that they look a bit silly with a tiny body with a big lens on. I don't know how the Sony's feel with a larger lens on. :shrug: Yes, some of the lenses will be smaller, but if start getting large zoom lenses, or even getting adapters to put DSLR lenses on, then this type of image jumps into my head, only scaled down slightly.
The NEX 7 has a viewfinder, too. I'll be interested in how good it is.
In response to your big lens comment, with 24mp at hand, on basically the same size sensor as a dx body, you could have a lets say 200mm lens, and when cropping half the size of the original image, it'll be the equivalent of a 400mm lens being used on a dx body? Why would you need a rediculously massive lens?
Like i said, i'd be interested in how the NEX 7 performs.
CT
TPer Emeritus
- Messages
- 26,617
- Edit My Images
- Yes
Agree entirely, unless a totally new lens technology comes to the surface there is no way this could replace the DSLR for its lens flexibility. All very fine for short to medium lenses but where do you go when you need more?
I can see it now as the wildlife photographer shows off his work ... "Where did you say the kite was?" ... "It's there ... in the top corner ... see the spec?" ... "Sorry, I thought that was dust!".
Sure there is a place for compact and no doubt there will be a place for these but sorry I can't see them taking over until a lot of other things fit into place.
I'm not quite sure what your point is or if you really understand it yourself? People will buy the NEX-7 for the same reason they buy Leicas. As for wildlife photography with a Leica - forget it - there aren't any lenses longer than 135mm, it doesn't stop lots of people buying them who don't need the longer focal lengths for what they do. The NEX-7 will appeal to the same people for the same reasons as an M9 appeals -at a fraction of the cost.
The OP James is replacing his DSLR with a NEX-7 because it suits his particular needs and backpacking around Nepal the appeal should be fairly obvious. No-one at all is suggesting that it's intended to be a replacement for a DSLR for everyone.
I'm buying one for it's street and candid ability - people feel a lot less intimidated by a small camera than they do by someone waving a a huge DSLR around, I've proved this time and again with my Contax G2 where I go unchallenged in situations where a DSLR causes confrontation. For bird photography I think I'll continue to use the DSLRs.
Don't feel so threatened - it's not compulsory.
- Messages
- 41,961
- Name
- 'Gramps'
- Edit My Images
- No
I'm not quite sure what your point is or if you really understand it yourself?
Don't feel so threatened - it's not compulsory.
Sorry I thought individuals were free to express an opinion on the forum I had no idea that in doing so I would face some patronising individual telling me that I don't understand my own point of view.
Since the thread is obviously reserved for those 'special people' I'll vacate it.
CT
TPer Emeritus
- Messages
- 26,617
- Edit My Images
- Yes
Missing you already. :shrug:
- Messages
- 6,912
- Edit My Images
- Yes
Like I said with regard to viewfinders, with present tech. One or two EVFs are higher resolution than the LCD's on the back.
But are they as good as an optical viewfinder? Not yet, but maybe... And for those that buy one of these smaller cameras without a viewfinder of any kind, are the images taken at arms length, with the camera shake that that can introduce? :shrug:The Mega Pixel count may be getting large enough for big crops, and Yes, you can crop a lot more and still get great image quality, but if you have 24MP, you want your images to be 24MP. You can stick a DX lens on a D700 and it will crop that central portion for you, giving you the appearance of 50% more focal range, yes, it's only 5MP instead of 12MP, but 5MP is enough for an A4 print. I would say that the vast majority of those owners regularly in a situation where the subject is far away would get the large lens rather than crop too much into their 12MP more than they have to. :shrug:
CT
TPer Emeritus
- Messages
- 26,617
- Edit My Images
- Yes
No it wasn't aimed at you.
I really don't see what the issue is here. I've given a perfectly valid reasoned argument as to why people might choose the NEX-7. Gramps isn't making any sort of sense with his argument - in fact he seems to be biased purely on prejudice against smaller cameras . If we can't have an intelligent discussion then it's fairly pointless don't you think?
G
gingerweasel
Guest
I can certainly see the appeal now I've investigated it a little more. Who wouldn't want DSLR quality in the palm of their hand? I've jumped between DSLRs and compact system cameras several times because neither system ticked wall the boxes. I want quality but when I get that it's often in the form of a bulky heavy SLR system that I won't carry with me. I then get fed up of owning thousands of pounds worth of equipment I never use and swap to a compact system camera that I eventually get fed up of because of quality... rinse, lather and repeat.
If there was a compact system camera that could deliver the quality of a DSLR then it would be the best of both worlds.
The reason I don't feel the NEX-7 would suit me is the lack of good Sony glass. No point having a larger sensor if the glass suck balls. If they had some small pancake lenses on par with the Panasonic range I'd order one in a heartbeat.
I know you can pickup Ziess glass but the size of that wouldn't suit my needs, I want a pocket camera.
If there was a compact system camera that could deliver the quality of a DSLR then it would be the best of both worlds.
The reason I don't feel the NEX-7 would suit me is the lack of good Sony glass. No point having a larger sensor if the glass suck balls. If they had some small pancake lenses on par with the Panasonic range I'd order one in a heartbeat.
I know you can pickup Ziess glass but the size of that wouldn't suit my needs, I want a pocket camera.
- Messages
- 3,739
- Name
- Alan
- Edit My Images
- Yes
OP
- Messages
- 2,145
- Name
- James
- Edit My Images
- No
Check the lens lineup due for release, the zeiss 28mm looks amazing
- Messages
- 949
- Name
- Ian
- Edit My Images
- Yes
And with that, you are missing the point. The NEX 7 with a 55-210mm lens such as the one available in it's range on a crop of half the image captured, will still carry more detail than the dx image found on a D700! i can't see that being a valid arguement you are putting forward? Look at the costs involved. A NEX 7 with a 55-210mm lens with the original image taken, (granted it won't be a fast lens), then cropped to a resulting 12MP image, then use a similar focal length lens to get the equivalent image on a D700, and you'll be looking at a massive difference in cost. Therefore, the NEX 7 offers an excellent value for money set up, IF it can deliver the image quality. Only time will tell. I for one am interested to see how the NEX 7 performs.
Yes, you are right, most people wouldn't want to crop much of a 12MP image, BUT, when you have a 24.3 MP image, you have the added luxury that you can!
Last edited:
OP
- Messages
- 2,145
- Name
- James
- Edit My Images
- No
G
gingerweasel
Guest
I'm even wondering whether or not I gave the x100 a fair shake
Well, it'll certainly fix your viewfinder issues! It seems there's comments about the NEX-7's OVF refreshing at 240Hz. Depending on whether that's per colour channel (so 240 true) or before dithering (some OVFs alternate colour channel at each pixel, so 80Hz true) it's going to be veeeery accurate. As long as image review can be turned of so there's a constant live stream, it sounds fantastic. Now they just need to add on sensor PDAF...NEX-7n anyone?
CT
TPer Emeritus
- Messages
- 26,617
- Edit My Images
- Yes
Well, it'll certainly fix your viewfinder issues! It seems there's comments about the NEX-7's OVF refreshing at 240Hz. Depending on whether that's per colour channel (so 240 true) or before dithering (some OVFs alternate colour channel at each pixel, so 80Hz true) it's going to be veeeery accurate. As long as image review can be turned of so there's a constant live stream, it sounds fantastic. Now they just need to add on sensor PDAF...NEX-7n anyone?
I'd imagine it will be possible to turn off image review, but from what I can gather, the viewfinder is eye -sensing anyway, so the viewfinder will only be active when your eye is at the viewfinder and it would make sense if the preview screen was also auto disabled at the same time.
Another really nice touch is that you can choose to show in-focus areas on the preview screen in the colour of your choice which means that focus is very positive and accurate, with exactly the same function being mirrored in the viewfinder. This bodes really well for using manual focus with a huge range of non AF lenses from various manufacturers and will make this camera a very attractive proposition for a lot of people.
I can't really see it as a compact - it's quite a lot bigger than the Nex-5n - more the size of a conventional 35mm rangefinder camera, which suits me just fine.
- Messages
- 10,529
- Name
- Suz
- Edit My Images
- Yes
Full frame at 12mp is beginning to sound comedic.... I have 12mp in a camera phone.
RAWs might be noisy but which raw converter was used?? There was this issue with the A700 and claim of noisy RAWS. Once the converter was updated the noise reduced massively.
I wonder if you could have the NEX-7 technology but in a dslr sized body and ditch mirrors and mechanical shutters altogether? You'd then have something that is a huge leap forward. Moving a mirror out of the way seems such an old fashioned thing to do somehow.
I reckon the NEX is the start of something really interesting.
RAWs might be noisy but which raw converter was used?? There was this issue with the A700 and claim of noisy RAWS. Once the converter was updated the noise reduced massively.
I wonder if you could have the NEX-7 technology but in a dslr sized body and ditch mirrors and mechanical shutters altogether? You'd then have something that is a huge leap forward. Moving a mirror out of the way seems such an old fashioned thing to do somehow.
I reckon the NEX is the start of something really interesting.
CT
TPer Emeritus
- Messages
- 26,617
- Edit My Images
- Yes
LOL. I'm not sure tbh. Part of me thinks 24mp is going it a bit - the 5n with 16mp is an impressive noise performer and there has to be a price to pay for the increase- probably around a stop at least? Who knows though - the way technology is moving forward we have to change our ideas almost daily.
I'm not sure on this one - I dunno if the Sony raw software was available to reviewers or whether they've used something else although I'd think the likelihood of 3rd part software having the profiles is unlikely.
Well it's certainly going to change things I reckon - if the electronic VF is only half as good as they reckon, we might be saying goodbye to the pentaprism soon. The focal plane shutter is a horror forced on us for far too long and if that goes, I won't be missing it.
You can definitely sense game-changing things just around the corner. Hell - you can't stop progress, I'm like a kid at Christmas waiting for this camera.
- Messages
- 983
- Edit My Images
- No
The look maybe wouldnt matter but a 70-200 2.8 lens on the NEX would be ridiculously unbalanced
To me the real potential of large sensor mirrorlesses seems likely to be with primes rather than zooms, that would give you a much more balanced system that could be pocketable.
CT
TPer Emeritus
- Messages
- 26,617
- Edit My Images
- Yes
I'm tending to think of the NEX-7 as the Contax G2 digital version many people wish had come to pass but didn't. All I'd want from it would be around the same lens focal length range. I don't see it as a long lens camera at all .
Going from a full frame D700 with nice glass to a crop Sony would be a bit of a comedown. I can't see many people buying this NEX as a cut price M9 either. If you want that go and buy a used M8. I'd need to have a look through the NEX-7 to see if I could live with an EVF as so far I've never liked them.
CT
TPer Emeritus
- Messages
- 26,617
- Edit My Images
- Yes
I've never liked them either - few people have. Things are moving on though and it's significant that a lot of reviewers have pre-orderd the camera - including this guy ....
http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/cameras/sony_nex_7_first_impressions.shtml
An interesting comment from the review...
I don't know about your experience, but I am used to the output from my 24MP Sony A900 and Zeiss glass, and this looks every bit as good, both on screen and in prints. Certainly at low to moderate ISOs the NEX-7 is neck-and-neck with Sony current Pro-grade full-frame camera, and that means that it will be comparable to the image quality of Nikon and Canon's current full-frame cameras – at moderate ISOs, of course.*
Last edited: