Beginner Total novice

Gene Powell

Gene Powell

Messages
29
Name
Gene
Edit My Images
No
Hi TP group,
Looking to get my 1st dslr and I'm looking to the canon 850d but the body only as I keep watching and reading reviews and they mention that the kit lenses are not well suited for this camera.

Should I get the kit with lenses or just buy some other ones?
I have my eye on a sigma 35mm art lenses.

Thanks Gene
 
which kit lens are you thinking of, some have been very good.
 
If you're just getting started, my advice would be go with the kit lens until you get to the point where you *know* what will make things better,

You might shoot low light family stuff that includes the background at a relatively wide angle which would mean a prime in the 18-24 range might be good.
You might end up with lots of wide angle landscapes in good light in which case any 18-35mm prime/zoom might work well.
You might end up with mostly headshots and some that include the background in which case 35-55 might be better.
You could end up with a ton of images all shot at 50-55mm which might indicate you prefer the "longer" end of the zoom range.

Until you get a feel for the sort of images you enjoy shooting, it would be unhelpful to recommend a specific prime. So initially, get the kit lens and take some photos. If you find the lens starts to limit you because of a) zoom range, b) low light capability or c) image quality you can then begin to look for a lens more specific to what you enjoy taking pictures of.

I have the 50mm f/1.4 art lens and I love it. I also have the 50mm f/1.8 standard prime and I love that because of it's size and weight. The best way to buy lenses is to figure out where your gaps are, then fill them. Nothing worse than spending a ton of money on a lens that doesn't work for you.

Hope that helps. I'm sure there'll be others with a different opinion!
 
If you are unable to create good images with a kit lens then there is little chance of you being able to create good images with a more expensive lens.
 
Some kit lenses are quite nice, some not so and many are f3.5-5.6 which could be more limiting than the optical quality of the lens. I much prefer primes and would much rather go for a nice standardish prime, something like a 28, 35 or 50mm would be nice and if the op realises the plus and minus points re kit lenses or zooms in general v primes even for someone just getting into this a 35mm prime could be a perfectly valid option.

This is worth a read, but don't take it too seriously :D

Letter to George

Dear Mr. Johnston, Thank you for your response attempting to assist me in my Nikon purchase. However, I find your recommendation preposterous and extremely strange coming from a so-called expert. First of all, the D700 at $2,450 is far beyond...
theonlinephotographer.typepad.com
 
Last edited:
redsnappa said:
If you are unable to create good images with a kit lens then there is little chance of you being able to create good images with a more expensive lens.
Click to expand...

The aperture range of kit lenses can be limiting particularly in low light when f5.6 could mean struggling with shutter speed and ISO so to say the above isn't strictly always the case, unless motion blur and/or ISO noise make for a good image.
 
I agree with all of the answers so far. Kit lenses (which can be variable in terms of image quality) are limited in terms of both aperture and image quality at or near their maximum aperture but are fine for someone starting out, who needs to develop their interest before making specific lens decisions.

For me, the greatest single limitation of zoom lenses is that they're just too convenient for novices. and can encourage laziness. My advice is to zoom with your feet instead of with the lens whenever possible, this will help you to appreciate the importance of correct distance, position and camera height.
 
Gary, you give mucho good idviceo on many questions. I struggle with "zoom with your feet" and would urge people to consider perspective as when you zoom with your feet the perspective changes as it depends on camera to subject distance. I'd urge anyone starting out to get to grips with and understand both field of view and perspective and of course you don't need a camera and lens to do this as you can see the effect moving towards or away from something has on the view.

The ideal way to use zooms, IMO, is to position yourself for the perspective you want and then use the zoom to frame the shot. With primes if you have a shot in mind, for example a half body person shot with a 35mm, you're perspective is decided for you by the field of view the lens gives and the distance to the person you therefore need to be at unless you move further back to 85mm distance, take the picture and crop it to give your half body shot but with 85mm perspective instead of 35mm perspective.
 
woof woof said:
Gary, you give mucho good idviceo on many questions. I struggle with "zoom with your feet" and would urge people to consider perspective as when you zoom with your feet the perspective changes as it depends on camera to subject distance. I'd urge anyone starting out to get to grips with and understand both field of view and perspective and of course you don't need a camera and lens to do this as you can see the effect moving towards or away from something has on the view.

The ideal way to use zooms, IMO, is to position yourself for the perspective you want and then use the zoom to frame the shot. With primes if you have a shot in mind, for example a half body person shot with a 35mm, you're perspective is decided for you by the field of view the lens gives and the distance to the person you therefore need to be at unless you move further back to 85mm distance, take the picture and crop it to give your half body shot but with 85mm perspective instead of 35mm perspective.
Click to expand...
Alan, I don't disagree with what you say in any way, but perhaps I didn't make my reasons clear . . .

When I first started in photography zoom lenses didn't exist for still cameras, and even when they did become available they were both poor and very expensive, so I spent many years with nothing more than one or possibly two prime lenses. This forced me to think twice and cut once, having to work out the ideal position in terms of angle as well as distance, and it also taught me a lot about choosing the right camera height as well as camera angle.

Fast forward to a zoom lens, I immediately became lazy and stopped thinking, it was just too easy to change the focal length instead of changing the distance. I eventually solved my problem by going out with a particular subject type in mind and (on 35mm) setting to (say) 35mm for all shots for say half an hour, then changing to 50mm, then 75mm, and finally to 105mm (the max), which re-taught me the discipline of thinking and moving.

My point is that with digital photography, allowing substantial cropping without too much quality loss, image stitching and wide-ranging zooms, for naturally lazy people like me it's now more difficult to get the camera position and distance right.
 
Many tourists and amateurs "Zoom with your fat"

Don't knock it...
 
I'd be inclined to avoid kit lenses as often the resolution does not match the quality the camera even a base level camera, is capable of.
In general a kit lens covers a number of subjects at a modest but not exceptional quality but they are low cost.
A prime lens can be more limiting by subject but covers less subjects to a much higher quality (plus less depth if field when required).
Next up is a mid range or premium zoom giving flexibility and good quality but at a cost.
I would suggest you visit a "proper" camera shop and take some snaps with these three options looking at resolution at max apature (a shot of a poster/sign for example), shots at either end of the zoom range (you might find the difference is less than expected) and if course shots of a person at full apature to see the "bokeh".
If you do this the shop will in effect have provided you with 30mins to an hour of training so please buy from there when you do make your choice even if it is a bit more than the cheapest price in the world (of course it may also be a competitive price anyway!)
 
Go for a kit zoom. Look through your photos after a few months and see what focal length you used the most. Buy that prime;)
 
Save your money on the camera body, you needn't buy the latest as SLRs made in the past 10 years have all been super and use the money that you would save on a slightly higher specification zoom and a 35mm f1.8.

Someone did say Mirrorless, and I would be inclined not to disagree because if you bought an SLR now you'd buy it to keep and not as an investment as the market moves to a primarily mirrorless future.
 
If you have only just got the camera and kit lens, don't rush into buying another lens - use the kit lens and find out what/how is restricting you. Getting a wide aperture lens now will not help if you are finding that all of your shots are at the 55mm end and you need to crop every image.
 
A few I have taken with the 18-55 lens that came with the camera. Sorry for the Editing I'm still really new to this.20220116172913_IMG_0310.jpg
 
Both are good, but look like they are quite wide angle, so the 50mm lens suggestion I just made in your other thread might not be too good.

The first one could benefit from a slight rotation to get the walls and lamp post vertical.
 
Or, if you fancy exploring ULTRA wide angles, maybe a Sigma 10-20. Should be able to pick one up second hand and if you don't like it, sell it on for close to what you paid for it.
 
Gene Powell said:
Hi TP group,
Looking to get my 1st dslr and I'm looking to the canon 850d but the body only as I keep watching and reading reviews and they mention that the kit lenses are not well suited for this camera.

Should I get the kit with lenses or just buy some other ones?
I have my eye on a sigma 35mm art lenses.

Thanks Gene
Click to expand...
I'd probably go for the kit lens, because it probably only adds about £150 to the price, it's a useful range for general use, it's handy to have a light travel lens, and the latest ones do image stabilisation. You could get a fast pro lens to cover a similar range, of course, but that may cost more than the camera. Primes you can add later when you know which focal lengths you use most on the zoom (or which you miss not having). I would generally get the manufacturer's own kit, which tends to come with the latest version of the lens (and doesn't add a bunch of dubious accessories). Note that SLR Hut is a (Hong Kong?) grey market dealer that's just using a UK mailing address. If you're not absolutely set on this particular camera, you might also want to check out other options, including mirrorless (it helps to try them out at a dealer to see how you get on with them - years ago, I was inclined to get a Canon but ended up preferring a Nikon; a friend went in the opposite direction after trying them out).
 
Probably repeating what others have said but if you are new to photography, you will struggle to 'out grow' an 850d with a kit lens any time soon, far more to learn about composition, lighting, story etc. than worrying about lens sharpness, it will do a good job :)
 
Gene Powell said:
Hi all so I picked up a sigma 18-35mm f1.8 art lens and so far what a cracking bit of kit.
Click to expand...

WoW!

That's quite a lens and I hope you'll be very happy with it and the results it gives.

Don't forget to post pictures and brag about your new purchase and make us all jealous! :D

Good luck with it :D
 
Some from longleat yesterday still learning editing but there not to bad.
 

Attachments

  • 20220529145751_IMG_0931.jpg
    20220529145751_IMG_0931.jpg
    291.1 KB · Views: 11
  • 20220529142118_IMG_0900.jpg
    20220529142118_IMG_0900.jpg
    231.1 KB · Views: 11
I was at Longleat on Saturday, but the lions were just on the grass; you managed to get a better environmental shot than I could.
 
Very good Gene. I'd say they're both very successful. Well done :D
 
Thanks I'm really happy with the out come.
 

Attachments

  • 20220529145625_IMG_0927.jpg
    20220529145625_IMG_0927.jpg
    235.6 KB · Views: 5
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top