Beginner "Total Photographic Failure"

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Name
Dave
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#1
Apologies - I'm deleting this thread as I've just received a solicitor's letter.

Tata, and farewell
 
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1,282
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#2
I'm no wedding tog (or any kind of professional) but in my mind (as an outsider) this is the same as any TC's they are vague and open to interpretation, sometimes that helps the "seller" but it can also backfire.

from an outside view "in the event of Total Photographic Failure" means, if your images are not to the standard expected or promised then this constitutes a failure.

this is all just guesswork as your post relates to images taken and subsequent problems arising from that, so even thou you ask about wording, if your images are compleat tosh then that would be "in the event of Total Photographic Failure", but your images could be the best thing since the wheel was invented then "in the event of Total Photographic Failure" has no relevance in that particular case.

but let's be honest, it's her big day, so unless there's a good reason, I'm guessing she doesn't want to lose the photos.
 
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Phil Maddocks
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#3
I guess it would depend on the reasons she doesn't like the images. Reasons like "every single photo is out of focus", "most photos are under exposed", "You missed lots of people out of the group photos despite us giving you the list of people" are very different to "I just don't like how they've come out - stylistically"
 

KIPAX

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20,212
Name
KIPAX
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#4
So I'm relatively new to wedding photography and I shot my second wedding a few weeks ago. The bride isn't happy with the images, but in 24 hours she's gone from not knowing that photographers use Photoshop to being a reportage critic.
Getting advice from other people.. Be careful if she is on a wedding facebook group or somehting as you could be getting a bad name (maybe though no fault of your own) before you start... You need to placate her...and quick IMHO

My question isn't about the quality of my images, it's more about a term used in the standard T&Cs the AOP provides.
Not sure what the AOP is but "in the event of Total Photographic Failure" does seem a bit grey...

It states "in the event of Total Photographic Failure". She's claiming that's what's happened. It's more a case of she just doesn't like the images or doesn't want to pay.
I presume you ahvent given her the images before paying? because that would be silly .........if she doesnt want to pay then she doesnt get the pics... I presume the same T&Cs your using have a no refund :)


To my mind, Total Photographic Failure relates to the operation of the equipment, for example if I'd arrived home and the memory cards had wiped.
My take would be anything that makes them unusable......

I AM NOT AN EXPERT.. Just my thoughts :)
 
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#5
So I'm relatively new to wedding photography and I shot my second wedding a few weeks ago. The bride isn't happy with the images, but in 24 hours she's gone from not knowing that photographers use Photoshop to being a reportage critic.

My question isn't about the quality of my images, it's more about a term used in the standard T&Cs the AOP provides.

It states "in the event of Total Photographic Failure". She's claiming that's what's happened. It's more a case of she just doesn't like the images or doesn't want to pay.

To my mind, Total Photographic Failure relates to the operation of the equipment, for example if I'd arrived home and the memory cards had wiped.

Can anyone confirm this?
Who are the AOP? and a link to their T&C's would be very helpful.
 
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#9
That's who I thought they were, but there is nothing in their T&C's that mention "Total Photographic Failure". And I read all four different sets: England & Wales: Scotland; Northern Ireland, and Eire.
I'm impressed by your commitment, i seen the first line and thought "na your alright"
 
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Phil Maddocks
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#14
Only take s a few bad images in the album to be able to take a tog to court and win a CCJ against him.

My daughter did exactly that.
Surely it must take a lot more than that? I mean on average a wedding photographer must be delivering 300,400,500+ images across the day, even if the bride doesn’t like 10% of them, that is quite harsh to disregard the rest of the photographs?
 
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wayne clarke
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#15
Photography is subjective. What I like you may hate and vice-versa. Just because someone doesn't like a picture/pictures doesn't make it faulty. I hate my toaster but it toasts bread so it's not faulty.
I would argue that photos would need proper "faults" for a court case to succeed, OOF, or wrong colours, heads cut off that sort of thing is a fault. Not liking the way I look in a pic is my interpretation, or maybe it's me thats actually wrong, that doesn't make it the photographers fault..
It would be interesting to get more details.
 
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#16
It would be interesting to get more details.
Unfortunately the op deleted his original post..before everyone could get to read it.. but from what I can gather this was his second wedding as he has just started doing weddings and the bride was unhappy with the photos although the guy claimed there was nothing wrong with them.. but now the bride has all of a sudden become an expert in reportage photography and is unhappy with the photos and was claiming photographic failure.. think that was the just of it and he was on here looking for advice on what constitutes photographic failure..this was his first post here and I have my doubts as to whether he will now be returning..perhaps the bride was expecting a reportage type coverage and she has ended up with fine art instead..who knows only the original poster can now enlighten our inquisitive minds...
 
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Richard
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#17
Though I agree the term “Total Photographic Failure” is odd to me with no experience of wedding photography I would have thought it means not supplying any photos (equipment breakdown, dispute etc) rather than anything to do with quality,
 
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Peter
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#18
Bit scary when a wedding photographer posts in the beginner section, but maybe he didn't feel that the Pro section would be appropriate? Nearest I've come to this was family shots for a work colleague some years ago, where grandparents wanted to have memories. The photos were a mix of "standard" shots and ideas by those involved, and at least they were properly lit and in focus. Did they pick the "best" shots? No way, they liked some of the ones I would normally have deleted and ended up getting them printed. Ah well, lesson learned and confirmation that I would NEVER do a wedding.
 
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Steve
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#19
perhaps the bride was expecting a reportage type coverage and she has ended up with fine art instead..who knows only the original poster can now enlighten our inquisitive minds...
I doubt if most brides could tell the difference. If they could, they are likely to know a decent wedding tog anyway....
 
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Terry
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#20
Surely it must take a lot more than that? I mean on average a wedding photographer must be delivering 300,400,500+ images across the day, even if the bride doesn’t like 10% of them, that is quite harsh to disregard the rest of the photographs?

Depends if some of the supplied photos were of a bridesmaid's bum and down her cleavage!
 
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Paul
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#21
There are very few reasons where 'total photographic failure' would actually be a valid excuse and basically these would be because somehow between the point of you finishing a shoot and getting back to the office and uploading / backing up your images, your cards are destroyed or stolen.

and if that is the case then your insurance would cover it.

When I used to shoot weddings I specifically ensured that if after the wedding, on the way home I had a car accident that damaged the cards, or stopped off for a sandwich and my car and / or contents got stolen then the insurance would have paid to restage parts of the wedding, including redoing flowers, rehiring suits etc. I still have similar cover for shoots now.

Otherwise nothing else really is acceptable. You should know what you are doing, and be capable and in control of any situation. You should be using pro equipment and have backup equipment, should anything fail, and the knowledge to deal with, diagnose that failure, sort it out, get out backup equipment and carry on. You should have multiple cards and the ability to write them in parallel.

What other acceptable excuses are there?
 
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23,194
Name
Phil
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#22
It's the wedding catch 22
Otherwise nothing else really is acceptable. You should know what you are doing, and be capable and in control of any situation.
And the reason you're no good without experience, and you can't get experience without a portfolio.
If your portfolio is that barren and lacklustre that you need to give away a wedding package, then you are really not ready to be a wedding photographer.

… I also years ago undertook some lower paid wedding photography, definitely not giving it away, just people requesting discounts, and it's the same with these budget brides being budget in every way, cheap location, low end guests not dressed smartly, cheap décor etc. I mean I do my best, work with what I have, and they were always happy, but they were never images I could use for my portfolio.
is complete nonsense.

One of the absolute best 'insurance' you can have as a new wedding photographer is to do some for free. The best way to learn about the run of the day, the best way to get portfolio images, the best way to learn to work with difficult customers and drunk guests, simply the best way to cut your teeth.
But most importantly - it teaches us that we can get portfolio worthy images in the worst of circumstances.

I shot a wedding for a mate (his son who was getting married too young and the wedding was really cut price) and my fist dance images don't look 'different' to my usual standard despite the fact they were shot in a really grubby working mens club rather than a pretty wedding venue. The use of a hand held zoomed flash to spotlight the couple means we don't see the crap stage and dodgy DJ in the background; particularly the tangled wires etc
 
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