Tripod with level on legs or head with level

[Steven001]

Hi,

I take a lot of panoramas and my current tripod doesn't have a level on it at all (Redsnapper). I know that the legs need to be level in order to capture a good panorama, and it drives me crazy watching the built in camera level wandering off every time I pan. Now, I know I can buy a panoramic plate for £45 or so which I could add to my current tripod, but I don't want to invest that money into a tripod which bellow average anyway. I would rather put the £45 towards a ball head which had a built in level on it (on the base of the head rather than the actual quick release) or towards a better second hand tripod which has a bubble level. I shoot most of my photos whilst hill walking, so I don't want anything that weighs too much either.

Can anyone offer suggestions for a second hand tripod or head which would meet my needs?

Thanks,
Stevie

 

[admirable]

Use the level on your Iphone if you have one?

 

[Tringa]

Or buy one like those here - https://www.speedgraphic.co.uk/camera__lens_accessories/spirit_levels_other/145_0c.html

Dave

 

[ecoleman]

Or buy one like those here - https://www.speedgraphic.co.uk/camera__lens_accessories/spirit_levels_other/145_0c.html

Dave

Not sure how any of those would work when taking panoramas. They may level the camera, but for a panorama you need to ensure both the camera and the base are level.

I just bought a neewer levelling plate and it works a treat.

 

[walls]

one of the vanguard ball heads does this I think with a rapid leveling something or other.

 

[admirable]

Not sure how any of those would work when taking panoramas. They may level the camera, but for a panorama you need to ensure both the camera and the base are level.

I just bought a neewer levelling plate and it works a treat.

Surely if the tripod is level then the camera will be level too?

 

[Steven001]

Surely if the tripod is level then the camera will be level too?

The tripod itself has to be level not just the camera. When the camera is level is doesn't necessarily mean the tripod is, so when you pan you end up panning at an angle.

 

[Jim_Tod]

I’d suggest a levelling base for your tripod. Goes between the legs and the head and provides the ability to set the base to level whatever the legs are doing (within reason)

 

[Steven001]

I’d suggest a levelling base for your tripod. Goes between the legs and the head and provides the ability to set the base to level whatever the legs are doing (within reason)

That's what I was going to do Jim, but my head is quite poor quality and I'm thinking of replacing it. I was wondering if you get heads which have a level on the main body of them?

 

[admirable]

The tripod itself has to be level not just the camera. When the camera is level is doesn't necessarily mean the tripod is, so when you pan you end up panning at an angle.

I give up

 

[Steven001]

I give up

Sorry maybe I misunderstood your initial point. I suppose if you mean to remove the tripod head then put my phone on top of the tripod to level it then that would work. Is that what you were talking about?

 

[User.82148]

Surely if the tripod is level then the camera will be level too?

One would hope so, otherwise what is the point of the bubble levels.

 

[Jim_Tod]

I’ve yet to be convinced that a standard set of tripod legs can be levelled well enough for pano work. The adjustments required are too fine and the requirement to mess about with changing leg length just make it hit and miss. My other experience with tripods was in supporting levels and theodolites for surveying. Legs made solid roughly to level, 3 screw top 0late below instrument, set level with screws in one direction for one bubble from 2 screws, rotate 90 deg, adjust remaining screw to level second bubble, check instrument all round (been a while since i’ve used but thats my recollection).

I think a levelling base and decent quality head are required and you can remove the levelling base when you’re not doing pano work.

 

[Kodiak Qc]

•


Nikons do gave an easily accessible inboard level… all mine do!

 

[Jim_Tod]

•


Nikons do gave an easily accessible inboard level… all mine do!

So do mine but that only gets you level for the shot you’re on, if you rotate as a pano shot then you will progressively be out of level unless the base is level- need to see it as two distinct issues of having camera level or having base level, each can happen independent of other but for pano you need a level base

 

[Kodiak Qc]

only gets you level for the shot you’re on

Correct.

For my gimbals and PH I use a 1" bubble level I always keep in a pocket.

 

[Jim_Tod]

Correct.

For my gimbals and PH I use a 1" bubble level I always keep in a pocket.

For your ph, how do you get the base level through the travel rotation?

 

[Kodiak Qc]

For your ph, how do you get the base level through the travel rotation?

I don't. When all is set up, the last thing is the levelling.
I place the bubble on the rail, tweak et voila!

 

[HoppyUK]

You need a top-panning clamp on the head, easiest and most accurate by far - don't worry about the tripod, just level the camera and it'll pan dead flat.

You can get heads with a top-panning clamp built in. Or buy a separate panning clamp and fit it to your existing head. Or buy a separate panning clamp which just drops into your existing clamp when you need it, like this:
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Andoer-P...m=183227971276&_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851

There are lots of these things on Amazon/ebay. Any more questions, just ask

ps Do you actually need a high standard of accuracy? Distant landscapes are not that critical of exact rotation/positioning and modern software is amazingly good at stitching things together even from hand-held pans. But if you want to include close objects, like foreground rocks, then that's way more critical and you should consider a nodal rail so the camera rotates around the lens' entrance pupil.

 

[Kell]

I think what the OP is getting at here is that it's possible, if you have a spirit level type of bubble, to get the camera level in one plane only. I've got a level like this which makes sure the camera is level side-to-side, but not necessarily front to back.

I have seen other levels which are circular and when the bubble is centred in that, then you know everything's flat in both planes.

Have you considered/discounted one which attaches to your camera's hot shoe? Or do you not have a hot shoe?

 

[rob-nikon]

That's what I was going to do Jim, but my head is quite poor quality and I'm thinking of replacing it. I was wondering if you get heads which have a level on the main body of them?

I use the uniqbal (not a perfect head but has some advantages as an one head solution for both wildlife and landscapes). It has a levelling outer ball. The inner ball acts similar to a ball head but stays level in horizontal and vertical axis. I’ve added a pano clamp to let me pan on the horizontal plane with everything locked up. You can get a smaller version with the pano clamp already attached otherwise eBay is a good source for cheap panning clamps for the larger version. There is also the recent flexline competitor (made by one of the inventors of the Uniqball). It seems to overcome the disadvantages of the uniqball but it’s quite an expensive option.

 

[rob-nikon]

I think what the OP is getting at here is that it's possible, if you have a spirit level type of bubble, to get the camera level in one plane only. I've got a level like this which makes sure the camera is level side-to-side, but not necessarily front to back.

I have seen other levels which are circular and when the bubble is centred in that, then you know everything's flat in both planes.

Have you considered/discounted one which attaches to your camera's hot shoe? Or do you not have a hot shoe?

My camera has a built level for both horizontal and vertical planes. It’s worth checking if the camera has that function, I would think most recent DSLRs have this function.

 

[ecoleman]

My camera has a built level for both horizontal and vertical planes. It’s worth checking if the camera has that function, I would think most recent DSLRs have this function.

That will only tell you if the camera is level at a single point in time. The post is about levelling the base and camera for panos.

 

[rob-nikon]

That will only tell you if the camera is level at a single point in time. The post is about levelling the base and camera for panos.

I can see your point but I was solely responding to the mentioning of those spirit levels that attach to the camera rather than both tripod and camera levelling. Surely those levels do the same as the in camera level function but with added cost of purchase?

I do use the in camera levelling in conjunction with the levelling ball of my uniqball so can have both the tripod and camera level.

 

[HoppyUK]

In-camera levelling is usually pretty accurate, which is more than can be said for most of the little spirit levels built into tripod heads - and that's if you can actually see it properly with the camera in place.

Of all the tripod spirit levels I've tested (dozens) I'd say about one in ten is true.

 

[Mark twiglet]

I shoot panos handheld! I don’t use tripod for them

 

[Mark twiglet]

 

[Kell]

That will only tell you if the camera is level at a single point in time. The post is about levelling the base and camera for panos.

If the camera is flat and level in the two horizontal axis for one shot and you’re only rotating it about a vertical axis, it will be flat and level for them all.

 

[ianmarsh]

If the camera is flat and level in the two horizontal axis for one shot and you’re only rotating it about a vertical axis, it will be flat and level for them all.

Yes, but that also describes the problem. If the legs of the tripod are not level the ballhead spindle supporting the camera won't be vertical so the you rotate the ballhead to pan you are not rotating around a vertical axis. Each individual shot might be level but they will be staggered

 

[Peter123]

Hoppy’s first reply nails it.

 

[PhilH04]

You need a top-panning clamp on the head, easiest and most accurate by far - don't worry about the tripod, just level the camera and it'll pan dead flat.

Indeed... I advised this to another poster a while back, it is the ideal way to work and only takes up a small amount of room in your bag and will add virtually nil weight.

 

[ecoleman]

If the camera is flat and level in the two horizontal axis for one shot and you’re only rotating it about a vertical axis, it will be flat and level for them all.

not if the tripod base isn't level

 

[sureshot]

As you can see I have loads of these if you want a couple pm me.

 

[GeeJay57]

One of these might help...
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/X-36-Pan...c39a3151630aad51117041ffffe2d41&ul_noapp=true

 

[HoppyUK]

One of these might help...
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/X-36-Panoramic-Clamp-Plate-Adapter-1-4-Screw-ARCA-Swiss-Ball-Head-Tripod-/382466298931?clk_rvr_id=1543816102573&utm_medium=cpc&utm_source=twenga&utm_campaign=twenga&utm_param=eyJlcyI6MCwicyI6OTcyMDIzNywiY2kiOiIwM2FjODYyZWViMjkzM2EwZGUyYzczOWQ3OTMyMjdjOCIsImkiOiIxMTMwODA1MjMwODEzNzc2OTg5IiwidHMiOjE1MjczMzQ0MTEsInYiOjMsInNvIjoxNTAwLCJjIjoyNzQzMn0=&rmvSB=true&ul_ref=http%3A%2F%2Frover.ebay.com%2Frover%2F1%2F710-53481-19255-0%2F1%3Futm_source%3Dtwenga%26utm_param%3DeyJlcyI6MCwicyI6OTcyMDIzNywiY2kiOiIwM2FjODYyZWViMjkzM2EwZGUyYzczOWQ3OTMyMjdjOCIsImkiOiIxMTMwODA1MjMwODEzNzc2OTg5IiwidHMiOjE1MjczMzQ0MTEsInYiOjMsInNvIjoxNTAwLCJjIjoyNzQzMn0%3D%26utm_campaign%3Dtwenga%26utm_medium%3Dcpc%26ff3%3D4%26pub%3D5574631662%26toolid%3D10001%26campid%3D5338243305%26customid%3D03ac862eeb2933a0de2c739d793227c8%26mpre%3Dhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.ebay.co.uk%252Fitm%252FX-36-Panoramic-Clamp-Plate-Adapter-1-4-Screw-ARCA-Swiss-Ball-Head-Tripod-%252F382466298931%26srcrot%3D710-53481-19255-0%26rvr_id%3D1543816102573%26rvr_ts%3D9c39a3151630aad51117041ffffe2d41&ul_noapp=true

Yes, that'll do the trick, though that one is to replace an existing clamp (assuming it's the right fitting, threads etc - needs checking). The one I linked above is the same, but also comes with an adapter plate so it can just be dropped into the existing clamp when needed (assuming that's Arca-Swiss type - most Red Snappers are).

Edit: one of the photos on that ad shows the clamp fitted directly to a tripod. That's wrong - it's supposed to go on top of the head.

 

[Steven001]

You need a top-panning clamp on the head, easiest and most accurate by far - don't worry about the tripod, just level the camera and it'll pan dead flat.

You can get heads with a top-panning clamp built in. Or buy a separate panning clamp and fit it to your existing head. Or buy a separate panning clamp which just drops into your existing clamp when you need it, like this:
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Andoer-P...m=183227971276&_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851

There are lots of these things on Amazon/ebay. Any more questions, just ask

ps Do you actually need a high standard of accuracy? Distant landscapes are not that critical of exact rotation/positioning and modern software is amazingly good at stitching things together even from hand-held pans. But if you want to include close objects, like foreground rocks, then that's way more critical and you should consider a nodal rail so the camera rotates around the lens' entrance pupil.

Thanks Hoppy. Sorry for my ignorance, but my ballhead has a pan function on it, how does this differ?

 

[HoppyUK]

Thanks Hoppy. Sorry for my ignorance, but my ballhead has a pan function on it, how does this differ?

With a regular base-panning feature, the camera will only pan flat if the tripod is also dead level. With a top-pan, when the camera is level it will always pan flat regardless of how the tripod is set.

Edit: so why don't all tripod heads simply have a top-pan instead of a base-pan? Because with a top-pan only (eg Arca-Swiss P0 head that I use) when you flip the camera over for a vertical shot, it effectively disables the panning function. You can workaround that, but it's not very convenient and you really need to either fit an accessory base-pan device or, ideally, fit the camera with an L-bracket (as I have) so it's simply not an issue. That's the best of all worlds

Edit 2: you can convert any regular ball head into a top-pan simply by turning the whole thing upside-down. I've done that before, and it works great, but you need a few extra bits and in practise it's too much of a palaver.

 

[Steven001]

Thanks very much for taking the time to explain!

This one looks similar and gets good reviews: koolehaoda 360° Mini Panoramic Tripod Head Metal Clamp Compatible with RRS/Arca-Swiss Ball Head Quick Release Plate, Camera Tripod BallHead (H2-Panoramic base) https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B071FZ9374/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_i_0ACcBbK1B9Y32

I've also been meaning to get an L bracket for a while now, so it gives me an excuse to get one

 

[HoppyUK]

You're welcome

That looks okay. I've not tried that one myself but I have loads of similar bits from China and, with few exceptions, they're very decent quality. If you want to actually replace your existing clamp with that one, you need to check the fitting. It'll probably be fine but there are some variations and the only way to be 100% certain is to take it off. Sometimes that's easy, more often it needs a fair bit of brute force or even heat to loosen the Loctite.

L-brackets are an excellent plan. They make shooting verticals fast and easy, and the tripod doesn't become unbalanced or need to be repositioned. Avoid ones with a sharp right-angle as it will dig into the palm of your left hand, and check clearance for any connections that plug into the left-side of the camera.

 

[Steven001]

You're welcome

That looks okay. I've not tried that one myself but I have loads of similar bits from China and, with few exceptions, they're very decent quality. If you want to actually replace your existing clamp with that one, you need to check the fitting. It'll probably be fine but there are some variations and the only way to be 100% certain is to take it off. Sometimes that's easy, more often it needs a fair bit of brute force or even heat to loosen the Loctite.

L-brackets are an excellent plan. They make shooting verticals fast and easy, and the tripod doesn't become unbalanced or need to be repositioned. Avoid ones with a sharp right-angle as it will dig into the palm of your left hand, and check clearance for any connections that plug into the left-side of the camera.

I think I'll just go for the one that you linked. I don't want to replace my call head with it, I'll just keep it in my back or rucksack to use and required.

I've been looking for a while and there aren't actually that many L brackets made for the D7100, I did find one on Amazon though.

Detachable L-shaped Vertical Quick Release Plate/Camera Holder Bracket Grip Special for Tripod Ball Head Nikon D7200 D7100 D7000 Body https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B00ST1E2HO/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_i_G9CcBbTE060P7